Want a second ebike ... need some advice.

byunbee

Well-Known Member
When you said at least 500watt, I’m assuming 500watt peak. Most mid drives from established brands all use Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano, or Brose motors. They are all very reliable and have enough assist to get you where you’re going.

I’ve owned ebikes equipped with both the Yamaha and Bosch. They are both very smooth and reliable. I also have a neighbor that bought the Aventon and I tried it. After being spoiled on the Bosch and Yamaha, Aventon was sorely lacking - very jerky in power delivery. My neighbor also tried my bikes, and he admitted that the feel of the motor on his bike falls short leagues apart.

For $4k you have many options from Trek, Giant, Yamaha, Haibike (I’ve owned two and strongly recommend).

If you want something more powerful, you’re going to have to look to Bafang M600 or M620 (also know as Bafang Ultra). These motors with their stock controllers are not very smooth and can’t compete with the above motors. However, Watt Wagons has a North America exclusive on a custom controller for the Ultra that puts the motor’s power deliver on par with Bosch and Yamaha.

The bike is a little over your budget, but with the Watt Wagon you pretty much get have your cake and eat it too. The support from the owner @pushkar is phenomenal and the the Ultra with the custom controller has rave reviews from EBR members that have pulled the trigger with unreserved recommendation.

I would reach out to @pushkar and see what he can do for you. It can’t hurt and you’ll walk away better informed of your options.
 

LarryC

New Member
When you said at least 500watt, I’m assuming 500watt peak. Most mid drives from established brands all use Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano, or Brose motors. They are all very reliable and have enough assist to get you where you’re going.

I’ve owned ebikes equipped with both the Yamaha and Bosch. They are both very smooth and reliable. I also have a neighbor that bought the Aventon and I tried it. After being spoiled on the Bosch and Yamaha, Aventon was sorely lacking - very jerky in power delivery. My neighbor also tried my bikes, and he admitted that the feel of the motor on his bike falls short leagues apart.

For $4k you have many options from Trek, Giant, Yamaha, Haibike (I’ve owned two and strongly recommend).

If you want something more powerful, you’re going to have to look to Bafang M600 or M620 (also know as Bafang Ultra). These motors with their stock controllers are not very smooth and can’t compete with the above motors. However, Watt Wagons has a North America exclusive on a custom controller for the Ultra that puts the motor’s power deliver on par with Bosch and Yamaha.

The bike is a little over your budget, but with the Watt Wagon you pretty much get have your cake and eat it too. The support from the owner @pushkar is phenomenal and the the Ultra with the custom controller has rave reviews from EBR members that have pulled the trigger with unreserved recommendation.

I would reach out to @pushkar and see what he can do for you. It can’t hurt and you’ll walk away better informed of your options.
Thanks for the great input. I think you've hit on my dilemma. My Aventon is an off-brand with inferior components and I would love to upgrade to something more reliable. I really like the way it rides when it is not in the shop, waiting on parts or making noises like it's going to die. My bike is a 500w nominal hub drive motor. I rode my neighbors new ebike with the Bosch mid-drive 250w Gen 3 Active Line Plus motor. That motor seemed really smooth and quiet to me but going up the steep hills on my normal trail was more of a struggle than with my Aventon. Since I have bad knees which will require some surgery in the next year or so, I worry about downgrading to a 250w motor and not having enough help to get up my hills. Seems like all of the name brand ebikes (Trek, Giant, Specialized, etc) are all 250w motors. Also, I wonder if a cadence sensor would make more sense for my knees rather than the torque sensor. Does that make any sense?

I will check out the Watt Wagons. Might be a good solution. Thanks again for the input! All the input has been really helpful and appreciated.
 

Bigal1463

Well-Known Member
I hate to jump in because every one has their opinion. But Aventon is an excellent class 3 bike, comparable to many overpriced bikes out there.
 

pmcdonald

Well-Known Member
Treat yourself to a brand name mid drive. There's no guarantee of a trouble free ownership experience (just look at the Trek, Specialized and Giant subforums) but chances are better of being looked after by the dealer and you'll get buttery smooth power delivery. There's no direct comparison between a 250W mid drive and a 500W hub - you just need to test ride some to see if it's adequate for your needs (it will be).

A gravel mid drive - such as the gorgeous new Yamaha's - would complement your Aventon perfectly, opening up new trails and give you a +1 for when the other bike was in the shop.
 
Last edited:

Bigal1463

Well-Known Member
I’m sure there are better bikes out there, but right now, I’m in my second year with the Pace 500 and am extremely happy with its performance and durability. In nearly 1,000 miles, I’ve had only one flat tire. In my opinion, it’s a comfortable, quality bike for the money. Perhaps down the line, I will look at it differently, but right now I’m very happy with its quality and performance.
 

LarryC

New Member
I’m sure there are better bikes out there, but right now, I’m in my second year with the Pace 500 and am extremely happy with its performance and durability. In nearly 1,000 miles, I’ve had only one flat tire. In my opinion, it’s a comfortable, quality bike for the money. Perhaps down the line, I will look at it differently, but right now I’m very happy with its quality and performance.
I love riding my Pace 500 and have put 4,000 miles on it this past year. However, it's frequently down for repairs. I only ride on paved trails but have had a cracked rear rim, broken spokes, motor went out on me, constant weird noised (scraping / rubbing sounds, popping noises, etc). I have a very good bike mechanic do regular maintenance on it so I know it is being well taken care of. When I have needed warranty help from Aventon, it is very difficult to get a hold of them. They don't take phone messages so I have to leave an online request for help and I have waited as long as two weeks for an initial response. When it's running well, I am totally in love with the bike. However, with the amount of miles I put on the bike, I just don't think it will hold up. I'd like to get a second bike so when it is down, I have something else to ride. Also would like the second bike so when I have friends visiting, we can both go for a ride. Thanks for your input. Great to hear from another Aventon user!
 

LarryC

New Member
When you said at least 500watt, I’m assuming 500watt peak. Most mid drives from established brands all use Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano, or Brose motors. They are all very reliable and have enough assist to get you where you’re going.

I’ve owned ebikes equipped with both the Yamaha and Bosch. They are both very smooth and reliable. I also have a neighbor that bought the Aventon and I tried it. After being spoiled on the Bosch and Yamaha, Aventon was sorely lacking - very jerky in power delivery. My neighbor also tried my bikes, and he admitted that the feel of the motor on his bike falls short leagues apart.

For $4k you have many options from Trek, Giant, Yamaha, Haibike (I’ve owned two and strongly recommend).

If you want something more powerful, you’re going to have to look to Bafang M600 or M620 (also know as Bafang Ultra). These motors with their stock controllers are not very smooth and can’t compete with the above motors. However, Watt Wagons has a North America exclusive on a custom controller for the Ultra that puts the motor’s power deliver on par with Bosch and Yamaha.

The bike is a little over your budget, but with the Watt Wagon you pretty much get have your cake and eat it too. The support from the owner @pushkar is phenomenal and the the Ultra with the custom controller has rave reviews from EBR members that have pulled the trigger with unreserved recommendation.

I would reach out to @pushkar and see what he can do for you. It can’t hurt and you’ll walk away better informed of your options.
Just got on their website. The chat box popped up so I started asking questions. Turned out it was the owner. Had a great talk with him. Thanks for the referral.
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
LMT'D does have a rack available for $55. I have a seat post attached rack, which has always been fine for my limited lightweight use of a rack. I would move that from my standard bike to the LMT'D.
the more i look at the Limited the more i like it! i also could not agree with you more on LBSs,not for me, i work hard for my cash and i dont mind
getting my hands dirty,not into over paying for neutered bikes.
 

Sierratim

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the great input. I think you've hit on my dilemma. My Aventon is an off-brand with inferior components and I would love to upgrade to something more reliable. I really like the way it rides when it is not in the shop, waiting on parts or making noises like it's going to die. My bike is a 500w nominal hub drive motor. I rode my neighbors new ebike with the Bosch mid-drive 250w Gen 3 Active Line Plus motor. That motor seemed really smooth and quiet to me but going up the steep hills on my normal trail was more of a struggle than with my Aventon. Since I have bad knees which will require some surgery in the next year or so, I worry about downgrading to a 250w motor and not having enough help to get up my hills. Seems like all of the name brand ebikes (Trek, Giant, Specialized, etc) are all 250w motors. Also, I wonder if a cadence sensor would make more sense for my knees rather than the torque sensor. Does that make any sense?

I will check out the Watt Wagons. Might be a good solution. Thanks again for the input! All the input has been really helpful and appreciated.
I'm in my 70's now. I too have bad knees and have had one replacement, so far. I've owned cadence and torque sensing ebikes. The torque sensing is by far the easiest on my knees, though the ebike's software has a lot to do with this.

My first DIY ebike conversion had a 750W hub motor. I find my Specialized 250W mid-drive to be just as capable on the same hills, but much more reliable with a nearby LBS, should the need arise. So why does your hub motor ebike ride hills better than the Bosh Active Line motor you test rode? It's motor torque. The Active Line motor peaks at 40Nm. Your ebike is developing more. So do many popular mid-drive motors.
mceclip11.png

Peak torques of 90Nm are now available from several major brands.

I do want to reiterate that even though most mid-drives are rated for nominal power output of 250W, their peak power is often well over 500W.
mceclip10.png

This data is ~2 years old. The power meter function in the Specialized Mission Control app has logged motor power as high as 800w on my Vado 5 when I'm pushing at my peak; ~300W it says.

My wife and I ride Specialized Vado 5s in a very hilly little town. We haven't found a hill they can't climb with peak torque of 90Nm, more than double that of the Bosh active Line motor you rode. Support from our LBS has been exceptional.
 
Last edited:

byunbee

Well-Known Member
@LarryC,

One case that the big 3's don't offer is the Gates Carbon Drive. Which is a big deal if you hate maintaining your drive train (lubing, cleaning, etc.) every month. The belt lasts several times longer than the chain and there really is no maintenance involved. If Rohloff is to expensive, you can opt for the Sturney Archer 3 speed which doesn't have the gear range, but then again the Bafang Ultra's motor should more than compensate for that.

There are other companies like Riese & Muller that offer this with the Bosch motors, but the cost can be prohibitive. The less expensive alternatives use the Bafang Ultra, like the FLX and Watt Wagons. However, the after sales support seems non-existent from the various postings by FLX's existing customers on their FB group. Watt Wagons support is exceptional. There is a video on Gates Belt Drive on the Watt Wagons FB group you joined today if you want to learn more.
 

GenXrider

Active Member
the more i look at the Limited the more i like it! i also could not agree with you more on LBSs,not for me, i work hard for my cash and i dont mind
getting my hands dirty,not into over paying for neutered bikes.
LMT'D. I'm actually tempted to go ahead and order one myself. There's going to be a price increase soon if nothing changes.

 

LarryC

New Member
I'm in my 70's now. I too have bad knees and have had one replacement, so far. I've owned cadence and torque sensing ebikes. The torque sensing is by far the easiest on my knees, though the ebike's software has a lot to do with this.

My first DIY ebike conversion had a 750W hub motor. I find my Specialized 250W mid-drive to be just as capable on the same hills, but much more reliable with a nearby LBS, should the need arise. So why does your hub motor ebike ride hills better than the Bosh Active Line motor you test rode? It's motor torque. The Active Line motor peaks at 40Nm. Your ebike is developing more. So do many popular mid-drive motors.
View attachment 63091
Peak torques of 90Nm are now available from several major brands.

I do want to reiterate that even though most mid-drives are rated for nominal power output of 250W, their peak power is often well over 500W.
View attachment 63088
This data is ~2 years old. The power meter function in the Specialized Mission Control app has logged motor power as high as 800w on my Vado 5 when I'm pushing at my peak; ~300W it says.

My wife and I ride Specialized Vado 5s in a very hilly little town. We haven't found a hill they can't climb with peak torque of 90Nm, more than double that of the Bosh active Line motor you rode. Support from our LBS has been exceptional.
The best way to make a decision is to ride these bikes in the conditions that I normally ride. The frustrating part is I go to the LBS and they tell me to ride it around the parking lot or just around the block. Pretty hard to tell how the bike is going to perform for me. I guess it just need to keep trying to ride as many bikes as I can and see what works for me. I'm willing to spend some money on this next bike but just want it to be a good choice. Don't want to be looking for a third bike next year! :)
 

byunbee

Well-Known Member
The best way to make a decision is to ride these bikes in the conditions that I normally ride. The frustrating part is I go to the LBS and they tell me to ride it around the parking lot or just around the block. Pretty hard to tell how the bike is going to perform for me. I guess it just need to keep trying to ride as many bikes as I can and see what works for me. I'm willing to spend some money on this next bike but just want it to be a good choice. Don't want to be looking for a third bike next year! :)
Hey, what’s wrong with a third bike? Many of us are n+1. It’s an addiction! :)
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
The best way to make a decision is to ride these bikes in the conditions that I normally ride. The frustrating part is I go to the LBS and they tell me to ride it around the parking lot or just around the block. Pretty hard to tell how the bike is going to perform for me. I guess it just need to keep trying to ride as many bikes as I can and see what works for me. I'm willing to spend some money on this next bike but just want it to be a good choice. Don't want to be looking for a third bike next year! :)
We have a couple shops you can ride as long as you need. The recumbent store was all day if you needed
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove
We have a couple shops you can ride as long as you need. The recumbent store was all day if you needed
I too had good luck with test rides, mostly. I asked if I could rent 2 bikes for one day, and the dealer gave me them for a three day weekend for the single day price. Another told me to keep them overnight for 2 days, "since it might rain" and then wouldn't take money for a rental since he considered it a test ride. Note that I didn't request any specific make or model but took whatever they had available, and spent time listening to the store owner first. Less good results with higher volume stores with multiple salespeople, but still way more than "ride it around the block".:)