Watt Wagon direct competitors?

scrambler

Active Member
Depends on the trail, but given the power of the motor, the bigger the battery the more flexibility I would have to get to more trails.
 

pushkar

Well-Known Member
With FS the most we can do at the moment will be 17ah.
would you be closer to a non-Tesla ev charger by any chance ? Just curious.
 

pushkar

Well-Known Member
Not sure, but taking the time to recharge on the way even if available would be a major constraint.

As long as you start at 100% SOC starting from home, can take a 30-45 min break after 2-3 hours worth of riding, and you are close to at least a 15A outlet or an ev charger, you technically won’t need a second battery (using something really cool we are working on).

Here’s a scenario:

- ride to trail + 2 hours in trail (100 drain to to 30% SOC)
take a 30 -45 min snack break (charge to 80% SOC)
ride again for 2 - 3 hours,
Snack break for 30 -45 mins. (Charge to 80% SOC )
Last ride, and ride home.(home at 20% SOC).

Is that somewhat typical ? If so then we can make this happen without needing a second battery.
 

scrambler

Active Member
As long as you start at 100% SOC starting from home, can take a 30-45 min break after 2-3 hours worth of riding, and you are close to at least a 15A outlet or an ev charger, you technically won’t need a second battery (using something really cool we are working on).

Here’s a scenario:

- ride to trail + 2 hours in trail (100 drain to to 30% SOC)
take a 30 -45 min snack break (charge to 80% SOC)
ride again for 2 - 3 hours,
Snack break for 30 -45 mins. (Charge to 80% SOC )
Last ride, and ride home.(home at 20% SOC).

Is that somewhat typical ? If so then we can make this happen without needing a second battery.

I appreciate the effort, but I really don't want to have to plan around chargers and wait time.
I am going electric for simplicity and peace of mind :)
 

reed scott

Well-Known Member
It sounds like your research path is very similar to my own. I was teasing the Watt Wagons loyalists not that long ago because I didn't understand why - thought they were paid or something. I thought the pricing was out of my reach (it kinda still is) so after I felt I knew what was good and what was not I put together my own list of priorities.

I want full suspension, carbon frame, quad piston brakes with large size, lots of travel for the hills around San Diego where I ride, and a cool design. Several meet the above so I looked at...

1. Speed - so the Archon X1 or Luna with Ludicrous Mode, and this eliminates all the brand names with {Shimano/Brose/Bosch}.
2. PAS smoothness like the {Shimano/Brose/Bosch} grade - so that eliminated the Luna and now it's Archon by a landslide.
3. I'm torn on the hub drive w/Gates belt but nobody really has this yet for full suspension

This is really what landed me on WW. And based on all the hints and rumors it sounds like they have some really, really cool stuff coming in the near future.
I garnered a lot of info at first reading Luna info. That wild man Karl has some great insights. But I soon took a pass on Luna because they seem to have either taken an extended vacation or have decided to cut back to just the SurRon. I would have purchased an Apollo no doubt if they had one. Still would probably. Amazing bike. Don't think the Ludicrous controller can touch the Archon but that Apollo bike at that price is a super deal. The blue and black one they made just hurts to look at it's so gorgeous.
 

dunksalot

Member
I garnered a lot of info at first reading Luna info. That wild man Karl has some great insights. But I soon took a pass on Luna because they seem to have either taken an extended vacation or have decided to cut back to just the SurRon. I would have purchased an Apollo no doubt if they had one. Still would probably. Amazing bike. Don't think the Ludicrous controller can touch the Archon but that Apollo bike at that price is a super deal. The blue and black one they made just hurts to look at it's so gorgeous.

That's funny. I was all about Luna too. I like how the owner (Erik) has his whole life and passion built into the business and how he has those videos mechanically breaking down the Bafang. Pushkar is on that level only more personable - perhaps because Luna is a larger operation at this stage or Pushkar simply enjoys customer interactions more.

As I read about Archon and I love the product videos on WW, it really gravitated me towards WW as a better option. I think WW will address the last bit of market needs when they grow into a new design or two - getting that hint from other posters on here.
 
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greeno

Active Member
Region
USA
City
San Diego
I think almost everyone has salivated over the Apollo from luna. But they have been "out of stock" for to long to remember and if you can't get it you can't ride it. On another forum site people were inquiring about the lack of availability of the Apollo on the luna site and a rep came back and said they probably wouldn't have that bike again or at least not this year and they weren't obligated to stock it anyway. Typical luna response. If it's gonna be a year tell everybody and lets move on.Been purchasing products from those guys for a couple of years or longer and getting a response of more than a yes or no is hard. Been to their shop up in LA unfortunately more than a few times for issues and the "customer service" doesn't answer the door their either. I know probably a half a dozen guys down here in SD that had the "Apollo money" just sit-in in a drawer waiting to pull the trigger. Now that time has passed. One buddy went with a biktrix, another guy is getting a kirby vapour and I went with WW. Pushkar actually called me back with info on me building up my own ride. Customers word of mouth speaks volumes. Oh and as far as a larger battery goes have one made I stuck a 52v 34.5 ahr in mine.

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greeno

Active Member
Region
USA
City
San Diego
Whats a Coke Bottlecap?? Yes I made the battery myself as well as all my buddys battery's.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
I think almost everyone has salivated over the Apollo from luna. But they have been "out of stock" for to long to remember and if you can't get it you can't ride it. On another forum site people were inquiring about the lack of availability of the Apollo on the luna site and a rep came back and said they probably wouldn't have that bike again or at least not this year and they weren't obligated to stock it anyway. Typical luna response. If it's gonna be a year tell everybody and lets move on.Been purchasing products from those guys for a couple of years or longer and getting a response of more than a yes or no is hard. Been to their shop up in LA unfortunately more than a few times for issues and the "customer service" doesn't answer the door their either.
I know probably a half a dozen guys down here in SD that had the "Apollo money" just sit-in in a drawer waiting to pull the trigger. Now that time has passed. One buddy went with a biktrix, another guy is getting a kirby vapour and I went with WW. Pushkar actually called me back with info on me building up my own ride. Customers word of mouth speaks volumes. Oh and as far as a larger battery goes have one made I stuck a 52v 34.5 ahr in mine.

View attachment 68882View attachment 68883View attachment 68881View attachment 68885View attachment 68886

Nice work on the custom battery... Well done!
 

sisyphus

New Member
So I came across these bikes in the most roundabout way.. while searching for information on Reddit about ebikes in general, and what a "Rohloff" hub is when someone mentioned them in a particular post lol. The owner of Watt Wagon appears to be a regular reddit poster and some of his comments on ebikes just drew me to this line.. The guy's approach to biking just seems incredibly impassioned, analytical, and open to feedback and constructive criticism. There was a thread on endless sphere, where he handled a forum heckler in the most professional and resolute manner when they launched there last year. How I would want the commuter pro configured is about 1000$ out of my budget right now, but I would really like to pick one up if things align.


My questions for those that picked up a Watt Wagon:

Why this line vs other high-end bikes such as the Riese and Muller?
With no reviews that I could source, even here on EBR.. what drew you to them?
It appears to be a small shop currently; How has the support been thus far on any issues experienced?
How long is an expected delivery of the bike?
Does your bike look as refined in person as they do in images(perspective i know, but im still curious)
How is the ride? harsh, soft?
Any dealbreakers thus far?
Has anyone ridden their top-end 2k+ torque motor?
And does anyone have any pics of the upcoming commuter pro model!


Thanks!
Answers from my perspective as an owner of a Crosstour with 300miles:

R&M has wonderful bikes. I've ridden many models. Their suspension is amazing. Shifting is sweet with the integrated Bosh/Rohloff system. But the power is lacking, and there's no throttle. Don't think you want/need a throttle? Then you've never had one, lol.
Watt Wagons builds exactly what I was looking for. Bafang 1000 Ultra and Gates, the best breaks, and best... everything. All the components are top of the line.
Pushkar's been wonderful to work with.
Delivery time? Don't know. Worth waiting for.
While it's not as uniform/sleek a style as bikes with proprietary integrated batteries (which can be a problem in servicing anywhere but the manufacturer), the Titanium is gorgeous! The bike is gorgeous.
VERY nice ride on both Crosstour and Commuter. Pro. I've ridden both. I thought I was sacrificing by not having rear suspension, but the top-end Kinekt post is perfect.
The 2000K option? Death wish! I went with the 1000W, and OMG it's definitely more than I need, and I ride fast! I rode my previous ebike in power level 5, 100% of the time. My WW has an ECO and SPORT mode. I ride in 1 or 2 (rarely 3) of Eco. I mean I was going 35 MPH on it recently! Scared the bejesus outa me, LOL. I tried it on 5 Sport once and immediately blurted out "Oh s**t! Oh s**t! Oh s**t!"

It's all about your priorities and what you can afford. I wanted the most powerful motor (with strong torque) available, with a Rohloff hub, a Gates drive and a throttle (and the brakes to stop it). The only folks I find in that market are HPC, FLX, and Luna. There's Optibike too, but they have no pedal assist, it's throttle ONLY). I won't go into my comparison of those, but to say I chose a WW.

Best of luck in your journey.
 

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Taylor57

Well-Known Member
Answers from my perspective as an owner of a Crosstour with 300miles:

R&M has wonderful bikes. I've ridden many models. Their suspension is amazing. Shifting is sweet with the integrated Bosh/Rohloff system. But the power is lacking, and there's no throttle. Don't think you want/need a throttle? Then you've never had one, lol.
Watt Wagons builds exactly what I was looking for. Bafang 1000 Ultra and Gates, the best breaks, and best... everything. All the components are top of the line.
Pushkar's been wonderful to work with.
Delivery time? Don't know. Worth waiting for.
While it's not as uniform/sleek a style as bikes with proprietary integrated batteries (which can be a problem in servicing anywhere but the manufacturer), the Titanium is gorgeous! The bike is gorgeous.
VERY nice ride on both Crosstour and Commuter. Pro. I've ridden both. I thought I was sacrificing by not having rear suspension, but the top-end Kinekt post is perfect.
The 2000K option? Death wish! I went with the 1000W, and OMG it's definitely more than I need, and I ride fast! I rode my previous ebike in power level 5, 100% of the time. My WW has an ECO and SPORT mode. I ride in 1 or 2 (rarely 3) of Eco. I mean I was going 35 MPH on it recently! Scared the bejesus outa me, LOL. I tried it on 5 Sport once and immediately blurted out "Oh s**t! Oh s**t! Oh s**t!"

It's all about your priorities and what you can afford. I wanted the most powerful motor (with strong torque) available, with a Rohloff hub, a Gates drive and a throttle (and the brakes to stop it). The only folks I find in that market are HPC, FLX, and Luna. There's Optibike too, but they have no pedal assist, it's throttle ONLY). I won't go into my comparison of those, but to say I chose a WW.

Best of luck in your journey.
What type of breaks?
 

reed scott

Well-Known Member
Answers from my perspective as an owner of a Crosstour with 300miles:

R&M has wonderful bikes. I've ridden many models. Their suspension is amazing. Shifting is sweet with the integrated Bosh/Rohloff system. But the power is lacking, and there's no throttle. Don't think you want/need a throttle? Then you've never had one, lol.
Watt Wagons builds exactly what I was looking for. Bafang 1000 Ultra and Gates, the best breaks, and best... everything. All the components are top of the line.
Pushkar's been wonderful to work with.
Delivery time? Don't know. Worth waiting for.
While it's not as uniform/sleek a style as bikes with proprietary integrated batteries (which can be a problem in servicing anywhere but the manufacturer), the Titanium is gorgeous! The bike is gorgeous.
VERY nice ride on both Crosstour and Commuter. Pro. I've ridden both. I thought I was sacrificing by not having rear suspension, but the top-end Kinekt post is perfect.
The 2000K option? Death wish! I went with the 1000W, and OMG it's definitely more than I need, and I ride fast! I rode my previous ebike in power level 5, 100% of the time. My WW has an ECO and SPORT mode. I ride in 1 or 2 (rarely 3) of Eco. I mean I was going 35 MPH on it recently! Scared the bejesus outa me, LOL. I tried it on 5 Sport once and immediately blurted out "Oh s**t! Oh s**t! Oh s**t!"

It's all about your priorities and what you can afford. I wanted the most powerful motor (with strong torque) available, with a Rohloff hub, a Gates drive and a throttle (and the brakes to stop it). The only folks I find in that market are HPC, FLX, and Luna. There's Optibike too, but they have no pedal assist, it's throttle ONLY). I won't go into my comparison of those, but to say I chose a WW.

Best of luck in your journey.
What a great summary. Thankyou

Question: If you built another bike would you stick with fat tires? :)