Fast n' Furious
- San Diego
Very interesting.@Lsthrz my suggestion to @pushkar would be to not ship any bikes with the M8000-RD & a cassette with a tallest cog larger than 46T (he's already stated this what they're doing) and then go back to the 11-50's when M8100-RD becomes more widely available again. Since Shimano is nice enough that the M8100-RD 12spd works great on an 11spd with the M8000 shifters that are still cheap and available then it shouldn't really affect them otherwise. Not to mention with the X1 it's probably smarter to lean towards larger cogs in the rear vs the 9T or 10T unless you absolutely want to trade service intervals and reliability (and range) for top speed; from those Bikecalc charts you are a bonafied motorcycle at that point. Considering wear, HG-freehub availability (including steel freehub bodies), and the range vs cadence vs speed thing it's probably best to stick with 11spd and 11T as the smallest cog. Even on the 11T you only have 6 or 7 of those teeth taking all the force from the motor, which doesn't feel like a lot at 200Nm+
This is where high-power ebikes get way more complicated than bicycles. If the X1/X2 controllers could take a gear sensor input like what Rohloff e14 + Bosch does, and know which gear the bike is in, there can be some torque-limiting on the motor in the smaller cogs to prevent accelerated drivetrain wear/damage from poor-practice from the rider. With a cable shifter this could be an inline hall sensor+magnet setup or something that's indexed with the shifter. With electronic shifters there's definitely already something telling it which gear it's in and possibly already has an output for that signal for other ebike motors on the market. These are the subtle, more difficult features to get into an ebike that would definitely push WW above other enthusiast options if they could work them out - but we're getting into the realm of chasing unicorns here. Still I don't think it's beyond their capability, but probably beyond their capacity right now with how much they have going on and how small of a team they have. I'm sure there's also limitations on the Innotrace side that WW has no power over either.
@Fast n' Furious d'oh I meant the e*thirteen cassette you linked, and I'd double check Shimano's site for the D1x - I do know Garbaruk makes a D1x and an AXS cage as well, I'm not luxurious enough to have to have looked into compatibility with those though and what the derailleurs can fit stock. I plugged the cog numbers from that cassette into the Bikecalc tool for that chart. The principle for all electric motors is the faster they spin up to a certain point the more efficient they are at turning that electric energy into motion. An electric motor generates a back emf that at some speed will be equal to the forward current, and the motor can't spin any faster without higher voltage. Grin's Phaserunner can extend this rpm limit with field-weakening but that pushes the current higher without the voltage and can quickly heat things up - so there definitely is a ceiling, but the motor's efficiency peak is probably higher than our optimum cadence. Spinning the motor/chainring faster to get the same speed also puts less stress on the chain (higher drive rpm for same speed means the same amount of power with less torque - meaning lower forces through the chain). From my amateur note taking on my rides with my hub drive, on a 42x11 top gear (I've got an 11-34T 7spd on that) I can cruise comfortably around 24-26mph on the paved flats with 29x2 tires, guessing from the linked tools I'd say that would have me putting out around 150-180W and the motor is consuming around 150-230W and I can get a pretty great range cruising at that speed. It's definitely more what's best for you - ride style, terrain, desired range. I'm going for 11-51x30T up front but also have a cheapie 40T & 50T to experiment with though I'm sure my riding situation is way different than your. I use that 60-125rpm window in the bikecalc tool for like, 60-90 is what's best comfort/cruise-wise for me, then 95-120 is a sprint/me putting in more effort, and the 125 is showing where you clown-pedal.
Here's a chart showing what I can expect with my setup using a 30T & a 40T chainring. The 30T is definitely more for mountain goatin' and keeping a higher cadence at lower speeds up inclines, but you can see with the 40T in the top 3 gears I have a good cruising range from 22~30mph, and I can still boogie on up to 41mph if I need to give it some sauce - which makes sense because I'll probably wind up setting my X1 to 1000W nominal (1700W peak?). Like I said it's dependant on your needs - and 36mph does sound like a pretty sweet cruising speed, taking into account your handle is Fast n' Furious lol
View attachment 106954
How do you like the D1x? I've seen some videos on the SRAM AXS and it's now wireless and can take a literal hammering and reset its position, but good lord is the price tag eye-watering. I suppose if you go all in on the WW it's best to go all in
My Cross Tour's under construction so I don't know how the D1x feels yet.
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/members/cuz-vinny.38277/ would be the guy's brain to pick. He has two.
I like the SRAM AXS. It's slicker than the D1x - but not as versatile, limiting my derailleur choices to SRAM or hacked components.
My focus has been on the shifters and their mounting. While the AXS matchmaker may not fit correctly for my application, I really like the toggle controller demoed in videos. I'm pretty much 'all in' where I'm goin' - lol.
I dislike complications and it's possible I'll even trade off that black box for downgrading to manual shifter and cable. Won't matter if I can't clean up that cable management. No problem with Shark Batteries. The wiring harness could use improvement.
For the Cross Tour, my understanding is a 27.5x 3 and and 26 x 4 are available. I've built in 27.5 x 3.
I don't think either CT or Ultimate Commuter come in 29". A 43t seems to be the max
Feelin' bad for Deacon.
I hope the community assists him to a sound solution.
I say it's the offset - bigly.