well a cracked rim sucks.

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
I had my rear wheel on my bulls bike get a nice wobble after the tuneup after 6000 miles. I took it to a high end shop and the fixed it but told me the wheel had issues and they could not get the tension even an that it may need replaced or re trued every few thousand miles. well my birthday is coming up so I figured a new wheel will be a good present. that same shop has a backlog of several weeks before they could build the wheel. I was going to order one from probuilder.com but they are a month out. found another place thats all the do is build wheels. so 380 later they will build me a wheel with a dt swiss hub and rim and Sapim Force triple butted spokes. I can change over to center lock rotors too
I have learned a lot in the year and a half about wheels and e bike wheels. thicker spokes make a wheel weaker the spokes cant be tensioned tight enough. plus once spokes start breaking the wheel needs rebuilt as it may go a long time or you may brake spokes right away.
 

Marci jo

Well-Known Member
Foofer,
Wow that’s a bad thing. I didn’t realize thicker spokes make for a weaker wheel. Seems like the opposite would be true.
Do you have back up ebike?
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
Foofer,
Wow that’s a bad thing. I didn’t realize thicker spokes make for a weaker wheel. Seems like the opposite would be true.
Do you have back up ebike?
the problem with thick spokes is the rim cant take the tension thats required to get them tight enough. if the rim was steel or thicker then they would work. no this is my only bike. it should be ok till next week they are fast tracking the new wheel. I will take it to where I bought it it should be replaced on the warranty. but I weigh 200 pounds carry groceries the bike weights 70 pounds with all my junk on it. I aqlso ride about 20 or so so the wheels get a workout. My last recumbent I bought new wheels that were hand built when I bought the bike. they never came out of true. the difference is pretty big between machine and hand built wheels.
 

RunForTheHills

Active Member
Region
USA
Foofer,
Wow that’s a bad thing. I didn’t realize thicker spokes make for a weaker wheel. Seems like the opposite would be true.
Do you have back up ebike?
It depends on the rim. If the rim isn't strong enough to allow the thicker spokes to be properly tensioned, it will result in a weaker wheel. Moped rims can use thicker spokes than bicycle rims.
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
It depends on the rim. If the rim isn't strong enough to allow the thicker spokes to be properly tensioned, it will result in a weaker wheel. Moped rims can use thicker spokes than bicycle rims.
yes but most bike rims are not thick enough. they don't really need to be. a well built wheel will last a very long time.
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm.....maybe the n+1 rule?
Another ebike as a backup. That’s what I tell hubby but of course he just rolls his eyes.
no I don't really ride but to commute or on our tandem. I was going to get a analog bike as backup so I would not have to worry about a battery but it was impossible to get one at the time.
 

Asher

Well-Known Member
No warranty coverage? Sounds like a borderline manufacturing defect.

Lots of higher end wheels come with lifetime warranties these days. A good disc brake wheel isn't a wear item.

We're you riding with broken spokes?
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
No warranty coverage? Sounds like a borderline manufacturing defect.

Lots of higher end wheels come with lifetime warranties these days. A good disc brake wheel isn't a wear item.

We're you riding with broken spokes?
the shop is not sure if it is under warranty it would be the rim supplier that will cover the warranty I guess not bulls. so if it wont be replaced I will just save the hub. no broken spokes and I had no issues with it till I had a bad wobble and had the wheel trued and the wheel guy found uneven spoke tension and told me the wheel would not stay and would need re built or replaced in the long run. the new hubs will have cartridge bearings and then can be converted to through axle so may last more then one bike. Plus a well built wheel does not need re trued.
 
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RunForTheHills

Active Member
Region
USA
the shop is not sure if it is under warranty it would be the rim supplier that will cover the warranty I guess not bulls. so if it wont be replaced I will just save the hub.
It is possible to rebuild the wheel yourself without a truing stand. You use the bike frame turned upside down and put zip ties on the stays towards the wheel to use as calipers. I have only built a few wheels myself (with a stand). However, it really wasn't that hard and only takes an hour or so.

You might also be able to find a regular LBS near you to relace the wheel. The last time I had a wheel built at a bike shop, I think they charged me $50 for the labor plus the cost of the parts.
 

Asher

Well-Known Member
the shop is not sure if it is under warranty it would be the rim supplier that will cover the warranty I guess not bulls. so if it wont be replaced I will just save the hub. no broken spokes and I had no issues with it till I had a bad wobble and had the wheel trued and the wheel guy found uneven spoke tension and told me the wheel would not stay and would need re built or replaced in the long run. the new hubs will have cartridge bearings and then can be converted to through axle so may last more then one bike. Plus a well built wheel does not need re trued.
Are these Ryde rims? Try contacting them directly. OEM warranties for parts are pretty common. They might offer replacement hardware.
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
It is possible to rebuild the wheel yourself without a truing stand. You use the bike frame turned upside down and put zip ties on the stays towards the wheel to use as calipers. I have only built a few wheels myself (with a stand). However, it really wasn't that hard and only takes an hour or so.

You might also be able to find a regular LBS near you to relace the wheel. The last time I had a wheel built at a bike shop, I think they charged me $50 for the labor plus the cost of the parts.
I would trust a wheel I built about as much as I would trust myself in Vegas with a million dollars and drunk.
the place I am getting my new wheels from is the fastest with at most a week turn around time. but if the rim company will only replace the rim and not pay for the work I will see. its jsut a Shimano deore hub so not a real expensive one. I think it is a RYDE Taurus 2000, Double Wall, Alloy, 36 Hole. I will see what the shop does save me some effort.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I haven’t seen any issues with Alex rims. Thousands of miles each on several bikes since 2014. The models used for ebikes are double wall. My aggressive pads are showing wear one one bike. Never changed them when I dumbed the bike down from 1500w to 500w.
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
I thought I posted a pic I guess not.
IMG_2560.jpeg
 

RunForTheHills

Active Member
Region
USA
Following his link I see sets for $300 and cheap bikes with look a-likes for $300. It appears based on cost there are better versions? New to me so I’m asking.
I think that there are some expensive carbon fiber wheels built like that for weight weenies. I wouldn't be interested in either the cheap or expensive versions. Spoked wheels are reliable if built right for the application and can usually be repaired if damaged by a pothole or bump. You are also stuck with the manufacturers hub with that kind of wheel. You certainly couldn't build a hub motor into it. Ebikes can put a little more stress on a wheel than a regular bike, but weight isn't is much of an issue because of the motor so you can use a stronger and heavier rim.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
There is steel, then there is the recycled scrap metal containing lead, tin, copper, or aluminum, that many bike manufacturers are selling. The tensile strength of the two products is not the same. Many of the highest selling e-bikes have loose spokes & cracked wheels in the "known problems" threads of the brand forums.
By contrast, my yubabike which was not cheap, has 6500 miles with no spoke adjustments or cracks. On the power wheel I installed, a cheap $221 ebikeling, I did have to tighten two spokes @ 4000 miles. Remember, I carry up to 100 lb cargo on this bike. But the heavy end is the rear Yuba wheel. The yuba is also made in *****, but apparently they found a vendor that tensile tests their incoming "steel" spokes. Note no cracks or loose spokes on known problems thread of such brands as trek & cannondale. Those are also not cheap.
I built a wheel with a IGH (internal gear hub) with DT swiss spokes, and had no problems with it. I carried the cargo on that mountain bike, too. DTswiss are only 14 ga spokes, but are US made and apparently are real steel. The biggest problem is getting the right length spokes. Spoke calculators are full of lies.
A leaf spring artisan I met at the Biltmore craft show, told me that he has trouble getting blanks of "steel" now that will heat treat properly without cracking. Just because the certificate from ***** states that the product is a certain ASTM alloy doesn't mean it would pass incoming inspection tests. Small shops be ****ed. Everybody wants cheap, not quality anymore. I'm buying my nuts & bolts now in $7 boxes from mcmaster, because I can get ones made in ****** or ********. These don't strip or break like the ones from Home Depot. The HS steel drill bits I buy from mcmaster last about 6 times longer than the titanium coated bits from HD, and usually don't break as the latter often did.
 
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RunForTheHills

Active Member
Region
USA
There is steel, then there is the recycled scrap metal containing lead, tin, copper, or aluminum, that many bike manufacturers are selling. The tensile strength of the two products is not the same. Many of the highest selling e-bikes have loose spokes & cracked wheels in the "known problems" threads of the brand forums.
By contrast, my yubabike which was not cheap, has 6500 miles with no spoke adjustments or cracks. On the power wheel I installed, a $221 ebikeling, I did have to tighten two spokes @ 4000 miles. Remember, I carry up to 100 lb cargo on this bike. But the heavy end is the rear Yuba wheel.
I built a wheel with a IGH (internal gear hub) with DT swiss spokes, and had no problems with it. I carried the cargo on that mountain bike, too. DTswiss are only 14 ga spokes, but are US made and apparently are real steel. The biggest problem is getting the right length spokes. Spoke calculators are full of lies.
The spoke calculators don't lie. At least the ones I have used. It is the manufacturers published ERD of the rim that can be off. You have to measure it yourself before using the calculator. That said, I have used the manufacturers stated ERD to order spokes because I didn't want to wait for the rim to arrive and got lucky.

Steel rims are mostly found on older mass produced bikes. Most manufacturers use aluminum alloy now because it is lighter and doesn't rust. There are many different designs of alloy rims though. A double wall rim is going to be stronger than a single wall. A welded rim will be stronger than a pinned rim. More spokes (48, 40, 36, 32, or 28) will build a stronger, but heavier wheel. The use of eyelets can reinforce the spoke holes, but not every rim has them. Single or double butted spokes can save weight while increasing the strength of the wheel, etc.