What Are The Pros & Cons Of These 2 Battery Systems?

BreakAes

New Member
Hi all,

I have a quad with electric assist from a company called ZZ Merck on order. I've been waiting for a long time for this quad to be shipped. It's been delayed for months now, and hopefully it'll finally ship soon.

It should be this quad: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

However, it seems ZZ Merck has changed the battery system for that quad, and the above listing shows it has a 48v 14.5Ah lithium battery with Panasonic cells.

The batteries we came to a decision on for my quad, and that are listed on my Invoice, should be the batteries this other quad comes with: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Those are the 2 batteries with reflectors attached under the rear rack, which you can see in the last photo. They are 48v 20Ah lithium batteries, so the total should be 40 amp hours in that setup. I'm assuming they aren't made by Panasonic, although I don't know what company makes them.

What are the pros and cons of each of these battery setups?

Obviously 14.5 Ah is a lot less than 40 Ah, but the smaller battery has Panasonic cells, which I understand are very good.

I'm wondering if I should go with the 40 Ah battery setup I originally signed up for, and that we agreed to, or if I should ask ZZ Merck for 2-3 of the smaller Panasonic batteries, and swap them out as needed, since the design for my quad seems to have changed.

I also need to clarify the difference in the rear racks, other than that the second one holds the 2 batteries underneath it. The rear rack on the skinny tire quad seems like it may be lighter (and it doesn't show a bag, which is also in my Invoice), but I'm not sure of the differences just going by the photos.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
Hi all,

I have a quad with electric assist from a company called ZZ Merck on order. I've been waiting for a long time for this quad to be shipped. It's been delayed for months now, and hopefully it'll finally ship soon.

It should be this quad: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

However, it seems ZZ Merck has changed the battery system for that quad, and the above listing shows it has a 48v 14.5Ah lithium battery with Panasonic cells.

The batteries we came to a decision on for my quad, and that are listed on my Invoice, should be the batteries this other quad comes with: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Those are the 2 batteries with reflectors attached under the rear rack, which you can see in the last photo. They are 48v 20Ah lithium batteries, so the total should be 40 amp hours in that setup. I'm assuming they aren't made by Panasonic, although I don't know what company makes them.

What are the pros and cons of each of these battery setups?

Obviously 14.5 Ah is a lot less than 40 Ah, but the smaller battery has Panasonic cells, which I understand are very good.

I'm wondering if I should go with the 40 Ah battery setup I originally signed up for, and that we agreed to, or if I should ask ZZ Merck for 2-3 of the smaller Panasonic batteries, and swap them out as needed, since the design for my quad seems to have changed.

I also need to clarify the difference in the rear racks, other than that the second one holds the 2 batteries underneath it. The rear rack on the skinny tire quad seems like it may be lighter (and it doesn't show a bag, which is also in my Invoice), but I'm not sure of the differences just going by the photos.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.

My vote would be go with 14.5Ah panasonic battery. They will be lighter and the positioning is not rear heavy.
The 20Ah x 2 setup shown in the second trike is probably going to weigh more. Those type of rectangular batteries are quite common in China and often designed with lower capacity cells like 25R or 22P something. Check with the seller as to what cells are used and how does the system work (is there some sort of switch to toggle between batteries?)

Also they mention Dapu hub motor but I don't see the motor in the hub. Those are good motors for sure but what kind of PAS are they using?

The one with panasonic has Tongsheng TSDZ drive system and it is torque sensing. I guess the hub design has a cadence sensor (you may want to check that).
 

DDBB

Well-Known Member
Can't help w/ the batteries but I have to say that is a really cool vehicle. If I ever have balance issues, I'd be all over this.. Looks like a blast to ride. Not sure which one I like better.. Have fun!
 

larry-new

Active Member
I shouldn't worry too much about the weight, as it's spread over four wheels. I'd opt for that power available when needed, if your riding distances demand it...you're certainly not going to be getting 40+ miles out of a 14.5Ah battery in your case, unless you pedal an awful lot.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
Nice ride. If you ordered and paid for the 40ah battery then that is what they should ship. I did notice in the second link in the specs that they list a 20ah lithium battery.

Whatever it looks like you will do well to average 20wh/mi but probably more. The 14.5ah is 696wh and the 40ah is 1920wh.

As far as who made the cells Panasonic is known for quality cells but the HL type battery shown are pretty ubiquitous and quality can vary mostly in regards to what mah the cells are. They could be 2500mah or 3500mah and still be advertised as Panasonic.
 

BreakAes

New Member
Thanks for the replies.

I finally got a response from the Sales Manager at ZZ Merck. Here's what he said about the specific battery type in my quad, which apparently has just finished being built. I'm supposed to get photos today of the build, and he mentioned we'd discuss shipment next week.

He said, "The battery on your quad is 2x 48v 20ah with our domestic brand 18650 cells. Each cell is 3.7v 2.6ah.", so it seems like a Chinese battery Make & Model, which I'm assuming isn't as good as the Panasonic battery, but on the other hand has much higher capacity since two 20 Amp Hour batteries will give me 40 Amp Hours total versus 14.5 Amp Hours for the one Panasonic battery.

Regarding the motor, it's a 500 watt Bafang unit with cadence-sensing pedal assist and a throttle.

Any thoughts?
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
Each cell is 3.7v 2.6ah."

This is a low capacity cell 2600mAh and very commonly used in many bikes and scooters in China along with LiFePo4 battery.
500 watt motor is not that impressive for a trike of that size and many trikes are not well engineered. I would recommend not to plunk down huge amounts of money without test riding this configuration.

@Mikey- is working a really nice trike that has Gates carbon belt , Rohloff hub, full suspension design. Perhaps, this might tickle your fancy :)

Triot Trikes.jpg
 

BreakAes

New Member
At this point I'm committed. I wish I would have been able to do a demo, but it wasn't possible. I did get a positive review from a Texas user of the Big Fat Tire Quad ZZ Merck makes. He sold me on the legitimacy of the company. Here's some of what he said:

"Works as advertised
500W seems very powerful
Efficient use of power
Good build quality"

Thanks for the trike suggestion. I was going to go for an Azub Fat Trike with a Rohloff hub and electric assist, but I decided on the quad for the stability. I was able to try out an Azub Fat Trike, but without electric assist. I don't remember if it had a Rohloff hub.

ZZ Merck makes unique quads, and at least when I was doing research a year ago, they seemed to have the only articulating quad in production, that I saw.

The sales manager just emailed me and said, "The battery has BMS to protect it.

One 48v 20ah battery can last about 60 km."

He misunderstood, since I was wanting to know how long the batteries' lifespan typically is, so I'll ask him again.

And he just sent me another email with photos of my quad! Looks like it'll get the job done, and hopefully I won't have to upgrade to a 750 watt or higher motor, especially since it's not a fat tire quad, but we'll see. My configuration is different. The Big Fat Tire Quad has a different motor (I'm not sure if its motor gearing is different), it only has a throttle, and doesn't additionally do pedal-assist like this Skinny Tire Quad I got:





I'm going to ask for a photo of the rear side, so I can see what that's like. Any additional questions you all think I should ask the sales manager before this ships?