What determines low-speed ramp-up smoothness?

flipper

Member
hi, court: i'm teaching my dog how to walk next to me and my magnum low rider, using throttle only, is super herky jerky going up to 5 or 6 mph, prime walking speed, whereas my girl's ride1up 700 is super smooth. i called my magnum dealer who told me something like my bike's gearing and motor torque is high so it wants to go fast right away and will be jerky if i'm trying to feather the throttle up to 5mph.

i looked up the specs: MT on the magnum is 90 Newton meters while on the ride1up it is 50.

do you think that explains it?

i am going to sell my magnum since it's not doing what i want. i could get another ride1up, but if motor torque is a telling factor in my case, i might get something different. any other bikes i should look at? i'm not interested in speed at all and rarely go above 15 mph, since i usually have my dogs w/ me in a trailer. just want a smooth throttle curve. love something light, too.

thanks for any thoughts and/or suggestions you might have!
 

BET

Active Member
Ride1up 500 and 700 are nice because you can program the level of assistance. I think you might like the Aventon bikes (350, 500, Level) as they are known to have smooth, slower start up.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
It is depending on the sensitivity of cadence sensor and the ability of motor controller to deliver the electricity.

Sine-Wave controllers are apparently good at it. (I'm not an electrical engineer, please do not ask why or how)

The torque argument is complete BS.

Tesla makes one of the most highest torque on the car market.
With sophisticated computer and management, it can ride very smoothly.

From what I understand, even Bugatti Chiron can ride smoothly with proper mode.
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
In theory, a controller should be able to be reprogrammed to allow any amount of current to reach the motor. Motor torque rating has nothing to do with it.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
In theory, a controller should be able to be reprogrammed to allow any amount of current to reach the motor. Motor torque rating has nothing to do with it.
But most ebikes do not come with programmable controller though...
 

flipper

Member
well, this is certainly interesting. guess my dealer is a bit clueless. wonder if i can somehow rescue my magnum. magnum itself referred me to my dealer, but if he can't help, i wonder what i can do. crumb.

guess i might get another ride1up and not worry that the new versions have a newton number of 56 instead of 50 ...

the paces look interesting, and they're light weight, too. any others?

btw / i'm ramping up using throttle only. that being the case, does programming the levels of assistance make a diff? and, again -- do cadence sensors play into the equation when you're just using the throttle?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
well, this is certainly interesting. guess my dealer is a bit clueless. wonder if i can somehow rescue my magnum. magnum itself referred me to my dealer, but if he can't help, i wonder what i can do. crumb.

guess i might get another ride1up and not worry that the new versions have a newton number of 56 instead of 50 ...

the paces look interesting, and they're light weight, too. any others?
Magnum is not a manufacture, they're more like a dealer / brand.

For example..
Magnum Peak, Amego Elevate, NCM Moscow are the same thing.
They all come from the same factory.

They don't need to know engineering aspect to sell ebikes.
 

flipper

Member
okay but again -- what impact does the cadence sensor have when you're just using the throttle? or are we now just talking about the motor controller?
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
i called my magnum dealer who told me something like my bike's gearing and motor torque is high so it wants to go fast right away and will be jerky if i'm trying to feather the throttle up to 5mph.

Here, you were talking with somebody that either didn't feel like explaining the issue properly, or somebody that doesn't know.

You are talking about the software code embedded in the controller and display. Some are user configurable, some are not. Some are excellent regarding what you are trying to do, some not so much....

It's a huge sore spot for many.

There are MUCH better controllers on the aftermarket, but they may be a bit of a handful for many trying to install one. How "handy" are you?
 
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flipper

Member
well, i micro soldered my own quadcopters together before dji was dji but that's also before my hands developed the shakes, so ... not so handy no more. maybe i'll just ditch the magnum and get another ride1up. since the M cost a bunch more than the R, i might be able to do an even swap, money wise.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
If you like the Magnum, and feel like taking the time/trouble to install a much higher quality controller/display, have a look at this prior to making your final call. It will require you to match the necessary wiring (probably require changing connectors). Mostly pretty easy (2-3 wires), but the motor wiring may be more challenging. Look at the wiring diagram for an idea of what is involved. You will need a controller and display at minimum. Less than a hundred bucks, but not for the faint of heart....

May be a little bigger than the existing controller, so have a look at the dimensions as well.

 

GenXrider

Active Member
Ride1up 500 and 700 are nice because you can program the level of assistance. I think you might like the Aventon bikes (350, 500, Level) as they are known to have smooth, slower start up.
I wouldn't recommend the Aventon bikes in regard to the issue mentioned here. I've read feedback from multiple people that the Level and Pace 500 accelerate up to 10 to 12 mph in PAS 1! It may be smooth, but that's too fast for the lowest assist level and too fast for the OP's dog's prime walking speed.
 

flipper

Member
AH: yeah, that looks like a pretty far reach for me, given the faintness of my heart, among other things. wouldn't mind selling the magnum -- thu i do love the stability of its foot-forward design, which the ride1up doesn't offer.

genxR: one of the great things about the ride1up, as i'm sure you know, is how programmable its controller is, much more so on the 500 than the 700 from what i can tell. sure, the 700 looks better but the 500 hits just about everything else right for a much better price even after adding in the rack/fenders. have you decided what you're going to get?
 

GenXrider

Active Member
genxR: one of the great things about the ride1up, as i'm sure you know, is how programmable its controller is, much more so on the 500 than the 700 from what i can tell. sure, the 700 looks better but the 500 hits just about everything else right for a much better price even after adding in the rack/fenders. have you decided what you're going to get?
Indeed, that's one thing I especially liked about the R1U 500, not just adjusting the number of assist levels, but actually being able to set the power of individual assist levels. The R1U 700 newer LCD KD218 shows the same programmable individual assist levels as the R1U 500's KD21C LCD, but the older 700's LCD APT 500C did not show those in the manual. So, those levels should be individually programmable on the 700's being shipped now with the new LCD. A youtube video from Ride1Up from May of this year actually shows those settings being changed on the new 700 LCD. I have not seen definitive confirmation that those settings are available to the the LMT'D at this point since the latest shipment still had the older APT 500C LCD, but they will share the same LCD with the next shipment of LMT'D's. We had some discussion about that possibility in the LMT'D thead of one user's review.

I have not decided what to get, yet. Before getting into my peak riding season in 2021, I know I would like to have two e-bikes. And if I can pick up at least one in time to ride for a while this riding season, that will be a plus. With fewer vacation days, reduced daylight hours, and cooler temperatures, I don't ride as much in Sept., and then even less in October. I considered getting the new Espin Nero fat tire bike as my first bike with the early bird pricing, and plan for it to be my backup bike in the long term, but I'm leaning away from that idea because my interest in a fat tire bike has really faded over the last year, and it's not even scheduled for delivery until October, could be late October.

I really feel like a Ride1up would be my preference as a primary bike, and I may still be able to take delivery by mid to late September. I actually was about to initiate an order for the 500 a couple weeks back when the shipping date was early August, but it jumped to late August just when I was ready to order, so I held off. I was so close. There's been some favorable news on the LMD'T lately regarding the torque sensor PAS, so I am still considering that. You are right that the 700 looks nicer than the 500. My favorite preference about the 700 might be that it comes with wider tires, and the rims should easily support tires up to 2.8" (maybe 3") assuming there are no other clearance issues on the bike, which is not a given. (Edit: after reviewing some additional photos, I think it would be tight at 2.8" but would really need to see in person). The 500 review shows that it has more narrow rims, so it may not be good to go over 2.4" based on the rim/tire charts I referenced. It comes with 2.2" tires. Since I started out with more interest in wider/fat tire bikes due to some rough and resurfaced roads that I ride on, currently with much narrower 35c tires, this is something that gets more of my focus. The LMT'D comes with 2.4" tires just like the 700, but the rims look different than the 700. The LMT'D rims may actually be more narrow and lighter and not support as wide of tires as the 700, but I haven't seen the specs on the rims to confirm, either way. As of right now, I'm leaning more towards the 700 or LMT'D, which unfortunately are shipping later than the 500. But at this point, I'm still not sure which of those two bikes to choose or if I should just give it up for this year since I can't get my hands on one until mid/late Sept and just wait until next spring for a fresh new riding season with potential new options to consider.

As for a second bike, I would probably wait until after I had time to try out the primary bike for a while as that could influence my decision on what to have for a secondary bike, or perhaps, my primary could become the secondary.

Edit: Kevin from Ride1Up stated the following on FB in reference to the 700, "I think you can get away with 2.8" max. Possibly 3", but I think 2.8" should be fine. That being said, these Schwalbe tires are pretty nice and decently expensive, I wouldn't waste em! "
 
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flipper

Member
i didn't notice that the 500 has 2.2 tires. do you have a sense of what 2.2 vs 2.4 might do in terms of stability, which is one of my main concerns?

my other main concern, ha ha, is that if i wait to order the 500, it might go from late august delivery to lord knows when i now see the 700 is shipping in mid september ...
 

GenXrider

Active Member
i didn't notice that the 500 has 2.2 tires. do you have a sense of what 2.2 vs 2.4 might do in terms of stability, which is one of my main concerns?

my other main concern, ha ha, is that if i wait to order the 500, it might go from late august delivery to lord knows when i now see the 700 is shipping in mid september ...
I'm not sure that difference in tire size will be significant to matter much. I know my 35c's get loose pretty easily in loose gravel, like along the side of a road, like riding on marbles. But on pavement and asphalt, they're fine. I'm more concerned about the comfort. When I switched from my full suspension mountain bike to my hybrid bike (front suspension and suspension seat post), the rougher ride was something that jumped out at me immediately. Now, with this being my 14th year of riding it, I look forward to moving to an e-bike with wider tires (but not fat).

That's what happened to me... they literally changed the shipping day on the day I was going to order. Yes, mid Sept. for the 700, which is why I mentioned late Sept., with potential delays and delivery times, plus there's the assembly required, and the inspection by a bike mechanic to validate the warranty. Also, there's no guarantee there won't be a delay or a problem/damage with the shipment.
 

flipper

Member
Meanwhile, I went out and took videos of the Magnum and the Ride1UP 700 in action. You can hear the difference. To me, it's pretty dramatic.

the Ride1Up series 700:

the Magnum Low Rider:
 

BKing

Member
If you have a thumb or half turn throttle try a full turn throttle. That should spread out the power.
 

flipper

Member
after lots of back and forth w/ magnum, they've decided it's a faulty controller. i'm still under warranty, so they're going to send me a new one ... when they get one in stock and when that's going to be, they can't say.