What rear hub to use with 8fun

wa5

Well-Known Member
I am thinking of building a bike with a 250/ 350 watt Bafang mid drive. 250 watts is the legal limit in my area but I may gamble on upping the power a little.. I understand that 250 to 350 is all in the controller? can anybody point me to information about that?..

The other thing that concerns me, is what type of hub to use, I had a look at the Nuvinci 360 thread, seems like it may be a bit fragile?

I understand that Shimano makes an internal gear hub in 7 and 11 speed, has anybody tried one of these... if they were anything like the old three speeders I had as a kid, they were unburstable.. which is what I'm looking for.

I really don't like derailleurs, Maintenance is not my strong point, I want bomb proof.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
HPC trailblazer uses the 14 speed Rohloff. HPC is the vendor that would configure the wattage. The Rohloff is rated to 100Nm, so you are safe.

Given your desires, did you consider HPC, or reject them for some reason?

I would strongly recommend ordering the torque sensor version, which requires a controller that accepts that sensor. I wrote about this in another blog.

If I go with 8Fun, I would wait for BBS03, which I have also written about. I want to give Yamaha(Haibike SDuro) one year to offer a product. Although I have rebuilt car engines and computers, I do not want to mess with a bike.

The vendor configures the firmware (wattage) with software that can be hacked via a PC serial port. In the video you will see the configuration parameters.

A legitimate reason to hack the controller is to override the PAS setting, which are poor. A vendor like HPC can set the PAS for you, IF you happen to know the proper settings in advance. I suggest 10% increments, which I have written about before.

You also might want to consider the chain. The brakes will probably require a special Rohloff adapter.
 
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Mike leroy

Active Member
The Yamaha is sold by Haibike in Germany as the SDuro. I compared the HPC, Haibike XDuro (Bosch) and Yamaha. It took me a long time to figure out how to do it. I came to the following approach:

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

After considering all the details, the BBS02 just was not worth the shortcomings, risk and extra effort. A big manufacturer can build a better, cheaper and longer warrantied bike.

The BBS03 might be a different case, so I withhold judgment.
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
Mike Leroy said... "

Given your desires, did you consider HPC, or reject them for some reason?"

END.....

I'm a bit of a tight arse, I havnt seen any thing that really spins my wheels, and right now cant really justify spending 2 or 3 grand on a bike... not all at once anyway.. so figured building one, taking my time to get all the components (with the battery coming last) might be a decent way of doing it.. also, not sure all of the brands that are available in the US are available here (in Australia).
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
Next year, Haibike will only sell Yamaha. Haibike is dropping Bosch. Yamaha is a much better electrical system and at least $1000 cheaper.

We both want the same amount of torque. I need it for hills. I believe you want it for speed. The Yamaha is 600W peak. It is rated at 250W to get around Europe compliance.

The Yamaha has a sensor on the motor itself, called a "motor rotation" sensor. The Yamaha controller(Sine Wave) is a completely different animal than BBS02(square wave). The battery will last twice as long on a single ride.

You can buy the battery last, but you need to consider it in advance. If you want acceleration, 48V is your battery.

If you go with Rohloff, you will spend at least $1400. You will probably need a special brake adapter, too. After I went through all the details, I decided it was better for me to wait.

I did not realize how detailed it all is, until I listed the parts in a spreadsheet. For example, if your frame is incompatible with Rohloff, Rohloff is obviously not an option. Too much of a headache for me.

In the final analysis, I asked myself, "What am I getting out of a bike?".

In other words, do the costs justify the benefits?

I simply listed each component, the cost and benefit( on a scale 1-5). I just could not justify the costs. Your case may be different. I just could not draw a satisfactory conclusion until I listed the details. Too complicated for my brain power.

A Google Sheet to associate 50+ major eBike features (i.e., costs) with benefits.
 
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wa5

Well-Known Member
I'm really looking for peoples experiences with Nuvinci and Nexus Hubs... and their durability when matched with a mid drive. anybody?
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
Thankyou George, I hadn't noticed that on their website, $1999 here, That's the kind of driveline I'm looking for, but was hoping to build my own, the concealed batteries worry me, how would you go replacing them in three or four years? Li Ion batteries are the "troublesome ones " aren't they?
8
This bike could well be an option... it co/mes with a 36 volt 10.4 ah battery on a 350 watt motor or an optional 48 volt 7.8 ah battery on a 48 volt motor.. anybody have any thoughts? both technically illegal here.. in for a penny in for a pound :)
 
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George S.

Well-Known Member
Hi -- Yeah, I'm assuming these are lipo batteries, which are not as stable as some other chemistries. They sell tons of Lipos into the RC market, and supposedly they are tweaking things to make them as safe as possible. The pack is removable, but they don't show it. It's probably a Chinese pack, but they are listed as Samsung. I think Samsung makes cells in China. You might just ask for specifics.

There are some issues with the Nuvinci. I guess you can mess it up with the power people are producing with the BBS02. There's a YouTube video featuring the BBS/Nuvi, and I asked if it had any quirks. He said you had to follow a shifting procedure or, well, bad things happen. The shift procedure seems to be inherent in the BBS02, even with the Nexus. (Read comments.)


I'm hoping they might do a Kickstarter on a bike like this. Dillenger just funded a successful campaign, and this is a pretty nice bike. I'm pretty sure they will lend bikes to the review sites, eventually.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
Hi -- Yeah, I'm assuming these are lipo batteries, which are not as stable as some other chemistries. They sell tons of Lipos into the RC market, and supposedly they are tweaking things to make them as safe as possible. The pack is removable, but they don't show it. It's probably a Chinese pack, but they are listed as Samsung. I think Samsung makes cells in China. You might just ask for specifics.

There are some issues with the Nuvinci. I guess you can mess it up with the power people are producing with the BBS02. There's a YouTube video featuring the BBS/Nuvi, and I asked if it had any quirks. He said you had to follow a shifting procedure or, well, bad things happen. The shift procedure seems to be inherent in the BBS02, even with the Nexus. (Read comments.)


I'm hoping they might do a Kickstarter on a bike like this. Dillenger just funded a successful campaign, and this is a pretty nice bike. I'm pretty sure they will lend bikes to the review sites, eventually.
Why don't you order the 8Fun BBS02 with Torque sensor? You wouldn't have to worry about accidentally causing harm. I am not sure which controller supports the torque sensor, though.
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
There are some issues with the Nuvinci. There's a YouTube video featuring the BBS/Nuvi, and I asked if it had any quirks. He said you had to follow a shifting procedure or, well, bad things happen
.

I think the "bad things will happen" is enough to keep me away from the nuvi.. that just sounds ominous ..... the Efneo three speed front hub that I posted in "other" last night are also doing a new improved internal geared hub.. like a nexus not a nuvi... might be worth seeing how that goes.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
I think the "bad things will happen" is enough to keep me away from the nuvi.. that just sounds ominous ..... the Efneo three speed front hub that I posted in "other" last night are also doing a new improved internal geared hub.. like a nexus not a nuvi... might be worth seeing how that goes.
The Rohloff is rated to 100Nm.
 
I am running Nuvinchi with a BBS 02 750w and harmony auto shift its all working fine so far I only ride for lesure tho so no real mileage built up yet to assess reliability.
Am now building a BBS 01 350w version for my girlfriend to use, will be interesting to try them back to back for comparison,
if you went the shimano route your prob better with the 8spd, the 11spd looks horrendously complex and you will still have to cut power under load to shift gear anyway
I just ride off and pedal continuosly while the Nuvinchi shifts up and down to suit the road conditions its not getting stuck in one ratio under load.
 

Denman

New Member
There are a pair of built N360 hubs on Aeroheats listed in the classifieds.
One is used the other is new.
 

Micklemax

New Member
I'm really looking for peoples experiences with Nuvinci and Nexus Hubs... and their durability when matched with a mid drive. anybody?
Hi I've got a 750w mid drive with an older N171 nuvinci hub which I managed to get brand new, never used.
It took a few hundred K's for the hub to loosen up, but now it's great, it handles the power of the 750w which I get 1344W when pushing it hard up hill, you can change gear on the fly and stationary. Don't know what the N360 would be like pushing all that torque thru the drive chain. All I know is that the N171 is a rock and nuvinci should release it again.
 

Ann M.

Well-Known Member
A little scouring brought me back to a review Court has done of a bike conversion using the Bafang BBS02 (750watt) mid drive with a Nuvinci hub that worked seamlessly and fairly quiet. Shouldn't be a problem!
 
Hi All,
Just an update I built up my girlfriends bike using a BBS 01 350w with NuVinchi 360 and Harmony electric shift she uses it to ride to work. A long hill she has to climb "approx 1 mile" on the ride home she now averages 12/15 mph without puffing for breath, on her non assist bike she averaged 4/5 mph and got very out of breath often dismounting and walking the steepest sections.
Once she got used to how it worked she loves it, I can confirm it performs well it runs on a 42T chainring 17T rear sprocket and 26" x 2" schwalbe marathon tyres.
Its not as fast as my BBS 02 750w which she found too quick and a bit scary to ride, BBS 01/02 work well with the N360 it does shift gear under load the harmony shift system seems to works fine and makes up alot for the bike not having torque sensing like the bosch crank drive system.
 

Go-Coo

Member
Hi wa5,

I've been riding the Alfine8 for quite about 3 years without a motor.

No issues so far but I do take care NOT to shift under load, though it happens from t to t.

If you use either a break-sensor to shut down the motor when you shift or use the green button option I think the Alfine could last you a while.

Pushing all that torque of a 750W motor while climbing a hill you'd probably kill it in no time.
Setting your preferred and most used gear ratio to match gear# 5 might be smart as this is the direct transmission without any over- or underdrive.

I'll couple my BBS02 750W with a manual Nuvinci 360, but it's all still in the making, no experience yet. Just check out Spotty's builds, he sure put together some very fine 2 bikes there.

The range of an Alfine8 compares to that of the N360, but certainly pales in comparison with a Rohloff. I'd be close to suicide though if I trashed one of those...

An SRAM Pentasport or 7 speed are cheap but have a very limited lifespan if driven with a small chainwheel and large hind cog I've experienced, so no option.

An older 3speed Sachs IGH would neither be quite bomb-proof either I fathom...

Last not least: why not try NO GEARS? Single speed is as bomb proof as you'll ever get. Check out Karl Gesslein's Deadeye Monster here: https://electricfatbike.wordpress.c...ries-not-included/comment-page-1/#comment-421

Righto, curious what option you'll take or already have taken...

Go-Coo