Where can one purchase just a geared hub motor wheel, not a kit?

AHicks

Well-Known Member
I know you can change the PAS level display indicator to affect the power available to the throttle instead of to the PAS. Does that give the throttle the option for more torque than if it's set to display PAS settings?

Available power is going to affect both the PAS and throttle - if I'm following your question. (C5, C14?)
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
I missed the part about using a CA3. I may go there someday. Like the day I get a GMAC...

Generally though, I think that display is past due to be upgraded. Not for what it's able to do, way more about appearance. No color available, large size, limited amount of info without changing pages... Newest Bafang and KT displays leave the CA3 wanting - my opinion.
There is no display that has anywhere near the functions. And no one else with Windows AND Apple compatibility. I have a couple of Bafang displays but I have no interest in color. As you wrote, we have our personal likes and dislikes. That is what I like about this forum. Lots of options bring shared.
 

JES2020

Active Member
Available power is going to affect both the PAS and throttle - if I'm following your question. (C5, C14?)
My misunderstanding of p3. I thought it allowed the PAS indicator to switch between PAS power or throttle power.

Now I understand that you can control the PAS and the throttle power through the PAS indicator, or have the throttle at full power regardless of the PAS indicator.

Pretty cool control actually...if you lend you bike to someone you can reduce both the throttle and PAS power by changing p3 to 0 and then adjust the PAS lower to lower power to both throttle and PAS.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
P3=0 is going to lead to that speed based, herky jerky PAS response everyone complains about - you should try it! Pick a speed, say maybe 7mph, and see how you do...
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
There is no display that has anywhere near the functions. And no one else with Windows AND Apple compatibility. I have a couple of Bafang displays but I have no interest in color. As you wrote, we have our personal likes and dislikes. That is what I like about this forum. Lots of options bring shared.

The fact you DON'T need bluetooth or anything else to dial in a KT is why I like it! It's managed 100% with the 3 button controller.

You know I'm about to get that Bafang Ultra based bike. I'll need to drag a laptop out every time I want to mess with that. Though I like all the different parameters available, even after retiring after 25 years in IT, I still don't care for being tied to a darn laptop.... -Al
 

JES2020

Active Member
P3=0 is going to lead to that speed based, herky jerky PAS response everyone complains about - you should try it! Pick a speed, say maybe 7mph, and see how you do...
I mistyped "adjust the PAS lower to lower power to both throttle and PAS." should read: adjust the PAS " indicator" lower to lower power....
I don't understand how that would lead to jerky operation as all it should be doing is reducing the motor power. I will try it to confirm.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
P3 is the switch for power based PAS vs. speed based PAS. Huge difference. In PAS 1 for instance, if you keep pedaling, you're going to find yourself doing 10-12 mph. PAS is acting like an on-off switch. To do 7 mph for instance, you'll need to pedal for a second (until you are going over 7mph), then stop pedaling to slow down, start again, repeat over and over..... This is typical of very inexpensive (mickey mouse) controller software often seen on inexpensive bikes.

With P3=1 torque assist on, it's night and day different. There is no speed sensor in play. It's about how much power is being fed to the motor. Way easier/smoother. In PAS 1 for instance, you will get the same amount of assistance (power to the motor) at 6mph as you will at 20mph.
 

AxialFlux

Member
P3 is the switch for power based PAS vs. speed based PAS. Huge difference. In PAS 1 for instance, if you keep pedaling, you're going to find yourself doing 10-12 mph. PAS is acting like an on-off switch. To do 7 mph for instance, you'll need to pedal for a second (until you are going over 7mph), then stop pedaling to slow down, start again, repeat over and over..... This is typical of very inexpensive (mickey mouse) controller software often seen on inexpensive bikes.

With P3=1 torque assist on, it's night and day different. There is no speed sensor in play. It's about how much power is being fed to the motor. Way easier/smoother. In PAS 1 for instance, you will get the same amount of assistance (power to the motor) at 6mph as you will at 20mph.
I just tried this (P3=1), and I do like it better. I'm still wondering about my PAS strength, but knowing that I can give throttle while peddling does help, almost like a little turbo boost! Still, it would be nice to not have to do that.

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with my PAS ring? This kit came with the normal 8 magnet one, which I replaced with a 12 magnet split one, for ease of installation. I set C1=4 in order to get it working, but I notice on occasion I'll get a slight pause in power.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
I just tried this (P3=1), and I do like it better. I'm still wondering about my PAS strength, but knowing that I can give throttle while peddling does help, almost like a little turbo boost! Still, it would be nice to not have to do that.

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with my PAS ring? This kit came with the normal 8 magnet one, which I replaced with a 12 magnet split one, for ease of installation. I set C1=4 in order to get it working, but I notice on occasion I'll get a slight pause in power.

If you want more PAS strength, can't you just use a higher level? Or are you saying that PAS 5 isn't enough?

That C1 setting for the PAS sensor is like playing with fire. Not only must it be set for the correct rotation direction, it also controls sensitivity - how far the crank turns prior to the PAS being enabled. Set to "highest" it just takes one magnet passing the magnet - that could literally just be bumping the crank - so you get the occasional false start. That's a good way to scare the beejeesus out of somebody not understanding what happened. For YOU though, it's the ultimate in control, with the PAS starting very quickly. Look at the chart in the manual. It's not so much the magnet count, but forward vs. reverse signal (which side the PAS sensor is mounted on) AND this sensitivity control. Point being, there's more than just one option that will work. -Al
 

AxialFlux

Member
No, what I mean is that the PAS doesn't give as much boost as the throttle does. On my geared hub bike, they are equal. Like, if I am going up a hill using PAS, and start slowing down, I can hit the throttle, and it will give me a little boost. On the geared hub bike in this scenario, the throttle doesn't add anything else, it's like the PAS is using full boost.

I set it to C1 to 6, which is listed as "reverse 10 signal standard", and that seems to work well. There is also a "reverse 12 signal", so i am not sure if that number indicates the magnet count or what. Also, funny that "reverse" works correctly, and does not work when pedaling backward.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
As mentioned the forward vs. reverse signal is about which side the PAS sensor is mounted. I think the side closest to the gear is the reverse side.

In PAS 5 you should have full power available, same as full throttle - unless you are over the max speed setting. Makes no difference geared hub or direct.
 

AxialFlux

Member
Ah, ok that makes sense.

That's what I thought, and that's how it works on my geared bike, course it has the S830 display, which I wouldn't think would make any difference. I know I do have something off in my settings. On the S830, using throttle will match what PAS setting you have. Like in PAS 1, throttle will only get you up to 12mph or so. On the LCD3 bike, throttle is full range. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
 

JES2020

Active Member
P3 is the switch for power based PAS vs. speed based PAS. Huge difference. In PAS 1 for instance, if you keep pedaling, you're going to find yourself doing 10-12 mph. PAS is acting like an on-off switch. To do 7 mph for instance, you'll need to pedal for a second (until you are going over 7mph), then stop pedaling to slow down, start again, repeat over and over..... This is typical of very inexpensive (mickey mouse) controller software often seen on inexpensive bikes.

With P3=1 torque assist on, it's night and day different. There is no speed sensor in play. It's about how much power is being fed to the motor. Way easier/smoother. In PAS 1 for instance, you will get the same amount of assistance (power to the motor) at 6mph as you will at 20mph.
Okay, having a little trouble understanding this. Guess I'll understand better after trying p3=0.
Is it a correct understanding that p3=0 will allow control of the bikes top speed (throttle and PAS) by changing the PAS on the display?
Ah, ok that makes sense.

That's what I thought, and that's how it works on my geared bike, course it has the S830 display, which I wouldn't think would make any difference. I know I do have something off in my settings. On the S830, using throttle will match what PAS setting you have. Like in PAS 1, throttle will only get you up to 12mph or so. On the LCD3 bike, throttle is full range. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
That's one thing thatg I read the instructions to say on p3...if set to 0 you can adjust how much power your throttle AND PAS allows. IE turn PAS down to 1, the throttle is at the weakest along with the PAS, Which would be useful if lending the bike out to an inexperienced rider or a child.
P S Glad you found the universial ebrake cables useful.
 

AxialFlux

Member
My instructions were very weak to say the least, and did not cover any P or C settings. I did download a full set of instructions, and watched some videos, but some things still aren't very clear.

Cables should be here Thursday, so yeah, thanks for suggesting those, as I had no idea they existed.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Okay, having a little trouble understanding this. Guess I'll understand better after trying p3=0.
Is it a correct understanding that p3=0 will allow control of the bikes top speed (throttle and PAS) by changing the PAS on the display?

That's one thing thatg I read the instructions to say on p3...if set to 0 you can adjust how much power your throttle AND PAS allows. IE turn PAS down to 1, the throttle is at the weakest along with the PAS, Which would be useful if lending the bike out to an inexperienced rider or a child.

That would be my interpretation, but I hate the P3=0 setup, so I don't have a lot of experience there.

When taking a friend out, I generally take a few minutes to go over everything, then take a mile or 2 test run riding side by side to demo what I'm talking about. In my experience, they're good to go at that point.

For pre teen kids that are to be unsupervised, not sure what I would do. For teens, they're made of rubber and have lightening quick reflexes as a rule. I'd make them ride with me for quite some time to make sure they know the ropes, then they'd be on their own with maybe something like a password protected 12-15 mph speed limit set. -Al
 

JES2020

Active Member
That would be my interpretation, but I hate the P3=0 setup, so I don't have a lot of experience there.

When taking a friend out, I generally take a few minutes to go over everything, then take a mile or 2 test run riding side by side to demo what I'm talking about. In my experience, they're good to go at that point.

For pre teen kids that are to be unsupervised, not sure what I would do. For teens, they're made of rubber and have lightening quick reflexes as a rule. I'd make them ride with me for quite some time to make sure they know the ropes, then they'd be on their own with maybe something like a password protected 12-15 mph speed limit set. -Al
Still haven't tried the p3=0 as it's chilly and rainy outside : (
 

JES2020

Active Member
That would be my interpretation, but I hate the P3=0 setup, so I don't have a lot of experience there.

When taking a friend out, I generally take a few minutes to go over everything, then take a mile or 2 test run riding side by side to demo what I'm talking about. In my experience, they're good to go at that point.

For pre teen kids that are to be unsupervised, not sure what I would do. For teens, they're made of rubber and have lightening quick reflexes as a rule. I'd make them ride with me for quite some time to make sure they know the ropes, then they'd be on their own with maybe something like a password protected 12-15 mph speed limit set. -Al
Okay I tried the p3=0 and it does limit the top speed of the throttle and pedal assist, when PAS is set to 1, mine tops out at 15 mph.
I don't experience any jerkiness at all just the same as when p3=1. I have my assist levels turned all the way down in the parameters, maybe that's the difference.
One thing I did learn is, that I like turning the throttle power down on the fly, it makes the thumb throttle much much less sensitive and easier to hold a certain speed. Then when I want full power, just bump up the PAS to 5! I think I'll keep like this.