Why are there no mini bike/retro/moped style ebikes with middrive?

Dcwwcp

New Member
I guess i am missing something but middrive seems like it is the only way to take advantage of gearing for the motor.
Why do i see piles of hub motors and so very few middrive retro styled mini bike or retro styled moped bikes?

I feel like even though there are a hundred choices for ebikes out there, i just don't see what I'm looking for. Yeah I'm picky, but it seems like a retro/ vintage style ebike with suspension, middrive, headlight, disc brakes, 28-30 mph, would be possible.
 

Dcwwcp

New Member
Yeah that Ruffian is really cool lookin and has high quality parts. Unfortunately it states the top speed is 20mph. That's just not fast enough, and really it is a bit too fancy for what i want.

This is what usually happens to me. I end up just making what i want.
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
Yeah that Ruffian is really cool lookin and has high quality parts. Unfortunately it states the top speed is 20mph. That's just not fast enough, and really it is a bit too fancy for what i want.

This is what usually happens to me. I end up just making what i want.
I meant the Lil' Buddy. It's a mini bike style.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
There are tons of mini ebike with mid drive.

Could you give me an example of retro and moped style?
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Why do i see piles of hub motors and so very few middrive retro styled mini bike or retro styled moped bikes?
Because the frame of the mid-drive motor e-bike must be designed as structurally very strong. Any type of bike fits to be hub-driven.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Because the frame of the mid-drive motor e-bike must be designed as structurally very strong. Any type of bike fits to be hub-driven.
That's assuming you're basing on normal bike and bolting on ebike kit.

I'm not an engineer, but I'd imagine even for a hub motor ebike, once you put half integrated battery, for example Reention Dorado, one of the most popular battery casing on the market, you probably need to know what you're doing to keep the structural integrity of the frame.
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
i know the Luna banana is mid drive, i have seen one other ill try to remember who makes it......
i remember now, the other one i saw was a super 73

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Dcwwcp

New Member
Luna banana is cool. Mini bike look with a middrive. That is the one bike that is close to what I am looking for.
The super 73 is what got me looking in the first place, however they are hub motors.
 

Dcwwcp

New Member
Yeah but they don't make any middrives anymore. Not sure when they made that one. They do make some really awesome looking bike though. I do appreciate you mentioning the luna banana as i had forgotten about that bike.
As i look around on the internet i am seeing a lot of cool cafe racer style bikes i like. Not sure how practical they are though. They are almost all hub motor as well. It's hard to find anything in stock im intrested in here in the midwest.
 

Dcwwcp

New Member
Those are some pretty cool middrive bikes. Definitely not retro style.
I am looking for middrive, retro style, throttle, top speed approx. 30 mph.
I wish Tempus made a middrive Titan model.
 

steve marino

Active Member
I have a geared rear hub motor, and wonder why one would need a mid drive on any bike? These hub motors have plenty of torque. I very seldom even use the derailleur gears anymore, just keep it in high. Maybe if you had a lot of steep hills in your area? The mid drives cost a heck of a lot more money, and I just don't see that you get much for it, other than having the motor weight in the center of the bike, which is nice, but not that big a deal.
 
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Dcwwcp

New Member
Geared hub motor? Please explain. Does the electric motor use the gearing or is it just a gear cassette on the side for human power like a regular bike?
I really feel like 3 or 4 gears for the motor to utilize would be good enough for what im looking for
 

Dcwwcp

New Member
After reading more, i see there are different types of hub motors. Direct drive, geared, and double geared or what i would call 2 speed.
Direct drive is simple, quiet
Geared has more low torque, possibly more efficient, better hill climbing.
Double geared has two speeds, you get the low torque good hill climbing, but also retain top speed, but is more complicated and more expensive
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
Xiongda made a double geared motor. The Luna owner sold it on his website and even had a video showing how he pulled his GF's $90K Audi. Proved you can make tons of money selling batteries, but I think I can pull my $1K Mazda with my fatbike as I can shove the car (2200 lbs) around with my butt. Next June I'll do it.

I have my doubts on double geared (two speed) reliability. The motor has to stop and reverse itself to engage the higher gear.

Direct drive motor for higher speed cruising, simplicity, and ability to shed 2000W of heat. Geared motor for light weight and more torque per weight. Mid drive for ability to go 28 mph on 36V and only 250W.
 

Alex M

Well-Known Member
I guess i am missing something but middrive seems like it is the only way to take advantage of gearing for the motor.
Why do i see piles of hub motors and so very few middrive retro styled mini bike or retro styled moped bikes?

I feel like even though there are a hundred choices for ebikes out there, i just don't see what I'm looking for. Yeah I'm picky, but it seems like a retro/ vintage style ebike with suspension, middrive, headlight, disc brakes, 28-30 mph, would be possible.

There are minis with mid-drive and suspension. Ariel M-Class Urban comes to mind.

Not sure about "advantage of gearing for the motor". Mid drives have to rely on external gearing, hubs work independent of derailleur. There are pros and cons to either scenario.

"Retro" - like looking 1940-1950ish? :) . There is a very limited market for those.
Retro-mini - not sure. Minis were not common in the last century, except for some folders - those look old rather than retro, usually perform poorly by today's standards, but I would imagine making a retro-looking e-mini today (whatever this would imply).

Mini with 30 mph would be more of a moped, 20" bikes are not very comfortable to pedal to begin with. 30 mph would require mostly throttle input rather than pedals, this favors a hub rather than mid drive. There is plenty of hubbed e-mopeds, many are equipped with pedals but this is just a trick to make it look like e-bike and bypass licensing and registration, they are nearly impossible to pedal because of weight and geometry.
 
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Dcwwcp

New Member
You bring up some good points. Thank you for the good post. As a matter of fact thank you to all of you for posting. It is appreciated. It is a subject that i find extremely interesting and it is extremely helpful to get people opinions, reviews and just plain helpful knowledge on the subject.

I ride on trails for exercise and enjoyment. Not sure i would get an ebike for that or not. Im thinkin i just like the idea of not firing up the truck every time i want to grab a bite to eat, or run by a friend's house, or even run to the hardware store for a handful of parts.
So maybe I am looking for more of an electric moped....