Why bikes and e-bikes will eat cars

  • Thread starter Deleted member 4210
  • Start date
D

Deleted member 4210

Guest
When I saw the title of this article, I just had to laugh. But then I was compelled to read it, of course since it had the 'e-bike' moniker in the title.


https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/why-bikes-and-e-bikes-will-eat-cars.html

"Dediu argues that electric, connected bikes will arrive en masse before autonomous, electric cars. Riders will barely have to pedal as they whiz down streets once congested with cars"

"Horace Dediu paraphrases Marc Andreessen on software and says “Bikes have a tremendous disruptive advantage over cars. Bikes will eat cars.” Dediu also told CNN tech that notwithstanding the huge investment going on in electric and self-driving cars right now and the attention they are getting everywhere, the bicycle will own the future.

"The bikes' flexible nature will aid their popularity. You can park a bicycle in your home or your office. A bike can be carried on a bus, car or train. A car doesn't offer this versatility. A similar case of disruption played out with cameras, as the always-in-your-pocket nature of smartphones helped them leave traditional cameras in the dust."


Now here is an interesting little tid bit....

In fact, in Carlton Reid’s “Roads were not built for cars”, one learns that roads were paved for bikes in the bike boom of the late 19th century, and then the cars pushed the bikes out.

....It makes sense actually, because cars and trucks are 'eating our roads', and just battering the heck out of them. Roads would last eons if only bikes and e-bikes were on them. Think about it. We are so in love with our cars here in America, that we actually thought our roads were built for them. Of course when they built super highways in the 60's, they were thinking about cars and trucks only. But seriously, our roads here don't last at all, especially in any climate north of the Mason-Dixon line where freeze thaw, just reeks havoc, after trucks put cracks in the road, and thousands of car tires beat up the little holes to make them into large potholes come spring after winter.

Anyway, its a fun article, and all us e-bikers can dream can't we ?
 

ebikemom

Well-Known Member
"Dediu argues that electric, connected bikes will arrive en masse before autonomous, electric cars. Riders will barely have to pedal as they whiz down streets once congested with cars"

Last summer, I had a vision of the freeway traffic petering out, and what it would be like when half of the freeway lanes are for ebikes! :)
 

Camac

Active Member
Yeah I can just see it now. Family decide to go to the beach for a picnic. Mum gets on the bar of the bike, kids in a trailer on the back Picnic table on the rear carrier.
At the beach Dad's to knackered to play with the kids besides he has to keep his strength up because he still has to 'double' the wife on the bar and tow the kids back home.(hoping that he has enough battery left)
Not going to happen
 

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
An interesting article, thanks for posting.

While this may happen where people live and work in cities, bikes are not a practical alternative to cars in rural or suburban areas. In the US for example, the average commute is 26 minutes and 16 miles. If you remove city dwellers from the equation, the numbers are much higher and outside the capability of most ebikes.

The "Park & Ride" concept has been around for decades to encourage car pooling and mass transit use. To encourage ebike commuting from out lying areas, perhaps we need a new concept like "Park & Bike" Provide parking lots close to a city where commuters can leave their cars and bike into the city. While mass transit uses this concept today, it doesn't address the "last mile" problem of getting to the office from the train or bus station.
 

ebikemom

Well-Known Member
we need a new concept like "Park & Bike"
YES, along with with Lock-and-transit (plentiful and secure bike parking at current park-and-ride lots) and lock-and-carshare (plentiful and secure bike parking at rideshare locations). :)
 

ebikemom

Well-Known Member
Mum gets on the bar of the bike, kids in a trailer on the back Picnic table on the rear carrier.

That sounds like a fun scenario for a sitcom!

In our family it works like this:
I get on my ebike.
Son gets on his ebike.
Husb gets on his ebike.
Daughter gets on her ebike.
Picnic items distributed across our various carriers.

This flexible system allows solo outings or combinations of various family members for a variety of purposes. I know it isn't for everybody--but for folks who have a way to secure the family bikes at home (like a garage) and live in a suburban or urban area (with e-bike-able destinations), I imagine what our streets would be like if everyone who could do this, did this.
 
D

Deleted member 4210

Guest
I'd be happier with paved bike trails everywhere nearly as wide as single lane roads, that also crossed other car roads either under or over ( where practical) so you wouldn't have to stop and to lessen dangers of accidents between cars and riders. I do eventually envision numerous city downtown areas blocked off to cars and only allowing pedestrians and bikes. It could result in more freed up green space and removal of ungainly parking garages that tower as high as skylines, while making those same areas more peaceful and safe. Cars are 4000 to 6000 lb hunks of metal that are costly to move around people that weigh less than 250 lbs. (Most of the time). The energy involved in making them, and resources consumed are mind boggling. Compared to the maybe 60lb ebike that can move those same humans around, give them some exercise so they can stay in shape, live longer, be healthier while doing it, and lowering health care costs, seems to be a no brainer.

Cities in the Netherlands really rejected this whole car centric Urban planning starting back in the 1970's. The Dutch use bikes as a tool to feed into the public transit systems. 50% of all trips on public transit begin with a bike. That first and last mile role is huge for bikes.

It will be much harder for the US to undo the mess we have created with cars, pavement, and parking. And many roads and bridges are in disrepair because states no longer can afford to keep them up. So many states like my own have budget deficits so deep, they can't even fund their pensions properly let alone the roads.

I suspect re-doing this insanity will take years of painful recognition. Ebikes are the pathway in my humble opinion. They can be the catalyst to overcome the mental obstacles society has about use of bikes for more than just infrequent joy rides. It'll take very stubborn people (such as yours truly) to push this direction.
 

Jerry LM

Active Member
It would be wonderful if pathways were available but the reality is the lack of safe riding space on the roads is a serious problem for us. The other problem car vs bike is weather, if you live in a desert area or tropical it works better than areas of extreme weather. Here in Oregon the amount of rain in the winter months makes riding miserable at times.
For us the nearest shopping of any size is 65 miles down a curving mountain road with little to no room for a bicycle to ride safely. Just not practical, wish when they redo the roads they would take bikes into consideration but, they don't in most cases. Cars take priority and will I guess for many more years.
The other problem is a population of gargantuan size people in their cars at drive up windows ordering 3k calorie meals, I don't think there is much hope of getting them on bikes of any kind! Most won't even park and walk 15 feet into the restaurant! And they aren't concerned about voting for bike lanes or trails. Then you need to worry they don't run over you when their Super Sized triple, bacon, cheese, with crispy onion rings and sauce slips out of their hand while driving....Bike lanes need walls!
Sorry for the rant just couldn't resist.
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
It would be wonderful if pathways were available but the reality is the lack of safe riding space on the roads is a serious problem for us. The other problem car vs bike is weather, if you live in a desert area or tropical it works better than areas of extreme weather. Here in Oregon the amount of rain in the winter months makes riding miserable at times.
For us the nearest shopping of any size is 65 miles down a curving mountain road with little to no room for a bicycle to ride safely. Just not practical, wish when they redo the roads they would take bikes into consideration but, they don't in most cases. Cars take priority and will I guess for many more years.
The other problem is a population of gargantuan size people in their cars at drive up windows ordering 3k calorie meals, I don't think there is much hope of getting them on bikes of any kind! Most won't even park and walk 15 feet into the restaurant! And they aren't concerned about voting for bike lanes or trails. Then you need to worry they don't run over you when their Super Sized triple, bacon, cheese, with crispy onion rings and sauce slips out of their hand while driving....Bike lanes need walls!
Sorry for the rant just couldn't resist.

I am one of those over round people who likes to ride their bike a few miles to a taco wagon where there is good ambiance. Or to another place that has really good an messy burgers. Both are a 10 or 16, depending on which route, round trip. Mmmm, my mouth is watering thinking about those burgers, but it is a bit chilly to ride at this time.
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
It would be wonderful if pathways were available but the reality is the lack of safe riding space on the roads is a serious problem for us. The other problem car vs bike is weather, if you live in a desert area or tropical it works better than areas of extreme weather. Here in Oregon the amount of rain in the winter months makes riding miserable at times.
For us the nearest shopping of any size is 65 miles down a curving mountain road with little to no room for a bicycle to ride safely. Just not practical, wish when they redo the roads they would take bikes into consideration but, they don't in most cases. Cars take priority and will I guess for many more years.
The other problem is a population of gargantuan size people in their cars at drive up windows ordering 3k calorie meals, I don't think there is much hope of getting them on bikes of any kind! Most won't even park and walk 15 feet into the restaurant! And they aren't concerned about voting for bike lanes or trails. Then you need to worry they don't run over you when their Super Sized triple, bacon, cheese, with crispy onion rings and sauce slips out of their hand while driving....Bike lanes need walls!
Sorry for the rant just couldn't resist.

No kidding, With all of the drive up/drive through services constantly on the rise, not many ppl want get out of their cars and do anything except get in/out 1 time each way. Our society as a whole has developed into very lazy ppl with their big gulp and 3K calories happy meal. Too lazy to go into the market and gather their own groceries. Where or when will it ever end. Cheesh!
 

truth2all

New Member
Treecycle eTrike from MGT Engineering in Shanghai, China. The price list is attached. I really like the built-in trunk. I think the price ($6300) is also pretty good, especially is you could somehow get it shipped through BikeFlights or another third-party bike shipping company. Website: http://mgt-engineering.com/

From the Co-Owner, Florence Trees via email:
"
Thanks for your email. I attach a Price List giving you the costs of the 2 models we have in stock at the moment. Both models are based on the same rolling chassis but they have quite different bodywork. The standard bamboo Sedan has only one motor whereas the Explorer has two which gives it more power and allows it to tackle small hills. The Treecycle was however designed for mainly flat areas.

Should you be interested in buying either model, please be aware that our tricycles are very high end products.They are both unique in their way, the Sedan being the only tricycle in the world to our knowledge that has a handcrafted laminated bamboo bodywork and the Explorer the only tricycle with fat tyres, double electric assistance and a lightweight aluminium body. If you want a basic tricycle or pedicab, there are many very similar products available including some US brands. People buy our vehicles for particular reasons and certainly not as a cheap solution to their requirement. Shipping will be expensive for a single unit as we have no stock in the USA. If you have really set your heart on acquiring a Treecycle, what we can do is offer very favourable payment terms.
"
 

Attachments

  • Price List USD (1).pdf
    329 KB · Views: 82
D

Deleted member 4210

Guest
It would be wonderful if pathways were available but the reality is the lack of safe riding space on the roads is a serious problem for us. The other problem car vs bike is weather, if you live in a desert area or tropical it works better than areas of extreme weather. Here in Oregon the amount of rain in the winter months makes riding miserable at times.
For us the nearest shopping of any size is 65 miles down a curving mountain road with little to no room for a bicycle to ride safely. Just not practical, wish when they redo the roads they would take bikes into consideration but, they don't in most cases. Cars take priority and will I guess for many more years.
The other problem is a population of gargantuan size people in their cars at drive up windows ordering 3k calorie meals, I don't think there is much hope of getting them on bikes of any kind! Most won't even park and walk 15 feet into the restaurant! And they aren't concerned about voting for bike lanes or trails. Then you need to worry they don't run over you when their Super Sized triple, bacon, cheese, with crispy onion rings and sauce slips out of their hand while driving....Bike lanes need walls!
Sorry for the rant just couldn't resist.
I am hoping that the evolution of ebikes will bring about new styles of trikes that won't be bulky but streamlined and have enclosures of some sort to address different weather situations. The e-assist introduces all sorts of possibilities as any added weight from an enclosure can be handled by the e-assist. Maybe you have two different types of ebikes or trikes that you ride depending upon weather ? Maybe the trike even has fatter tires and more MTB like tread. Two $3000 or $4000 ebikes are still way cheaper than the average price of a new car. And there are a lot of people who don't go more than a few miles away from home for the bulk of their trips. Need to go a lot further, then you rent a car or Uber it.

But again, the transportation infrastructure for bikes needs to change drastically in most cities or suburbs. If ebikes help get a lot more people riding again, that would be the change that drives better roads. Nothing like a whole bunch of seniors getting in the face of politicians at local city meetings and being very vocal about planning needs. Pedego isn't targeting seniors in their marketing by accident. They are buying these ebikes at a much higher rate of adoption than people under 50 here in the US. They (the boomers) still have a lot of influence due to sheer numbers, and by far they have the most wealth to spur this on.

Maybe they will leave younger generations with the gift of more bike trails, paths, and better lanes on roads ? They are just getting started, and 10,000 of them are retiring everyday now.
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but some of the posts on this thread really break my heart.

The Dutch didn't magically get their great bicycle infra (and lower traffic deaths, and better health outcomes, more happiness, and cities that are nicer places to live) for free. They had to work for it. Literally it was a 50-year effort.

People who are such wimps that they think it is too hard to build a better world really are selling themselves and everyone else short. I simply cannot comprehend the rationale that we shouldn't do something that would literally save thousands of lives every year because it is *TOO HARD*.
 

ebikemom

Well-Known Member
@Mr. Coffee , I believe we can change the world, one ebike at a time. There will be more and more of us. We will need more and more space. And things will change. What will the world look like when I'm a 90 year old cyclist? I think much will have been accomplished. :)
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
Just a pet peeve.

The best estimate is that the US tax subsidy automobile commuters get from free parking is approximately $7 billion per year. The best guess on spending for bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure is about $830 million per year. Isn't that imbalance a little ridiculous? And why do we subsidize destroying the world anyway?
 
I am hoping that the evolution of ebikes will bring about new styles of trikes that won't be bulky but streamlined and have enclosures of some sort to address different weather situations. The e-assist introduces all sorts of possibilities as any added weight from an enclosure can be handled by the e-assist. Maybe you have two different types of ebikes or trikes that you ride depending upon weather ? Maybe the trike even has fatter tires and more MTB like tread. Two $3000 or $4000 ebikes are still way cheaper than the average price of a new car.
I think a vehicle along the lines of Arcimoto's new FUN EV ("Fun Utility Vehicle") with its 100 mile range and 75mph top speed, has multiple orders of magnitude better chance of seeing widespread success than $3k-$4k trikes. Presuming they can eventually produce it at that price. Trikes have all the disadvantages of bikes (eg. top speed, safety in traffic) without fully realizing the greatest convenience advantages of the bicycle: portability and ease of parking. There is almost no space in the market between eBikes and small EVs like the Arcimoto for eTrikes to find any great success IMO.
 
Last edited: