Why buying a Stromer?

bluecat

Well-Known Member
At the meeting of the Maserati Quattroporte owners club. A guy stumbled in and shout: I've an italian car too! "My Fiat Multipla costs only a quarter, has only the half fuel consumption - and finds easier a parking lot in the city." The audience agree, the statement is fully correct. Nevertheless, he missed the point. There is something beyond all facts and figures and regardless of the price: The spirit of driving.


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Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
Yes Bluecat, totally agree but i would want to know 1000% that it is absolutely reliable .

The emotion of driving and the adrenaline...

Q- How is it that yours and other folks St5’s, St2s’s are reliable and others are not ??

I just cruised at 30mph for 15miles in you know which one...the Stromer motor is custom made , extremely finicky to adjust/open/fix.

I would engage the CORSA mode on a 458spider and smoke that Multipla or Fiat 500.
Enjoy your toys 👌
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
There are very very few E-bikes on the market that have over 40,000 miles on them.
Someone I know, Rolf Menzi has over 45,000 miles (73737 kms) on his ST2. Still on the original motor and almost ~19-20mph avg speed over those 45 thousand miles.
This is a testament to the durability and performance of DD-hub motors.

I am sharing this because very often forums like this get crowded by dealer promotions or complaints from customers. whereas, positive stories go unnoticed.

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Zagdig

Member
That is indeed impressive. My measly 20,000 kms makes me seem very inadequate in comparison. But its always good to have goals! Thanks for sharing!!
 

Johnny

Well-Known Member
At the meeting of the Maserati Quattroporte owners club. A guy stumbled in and shout: I've an italian car too! "My Fiat Multipla costs only a quarter, has only the half fuel consumption - and finds easier a parking lot in the city." The audience agree, the statement is fully correct. Nevertheless, he missed the point. There is something beyond all facts and figures and regardless of the price: The spirit of driving.


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Back in the day German car brands, especially BMW, were talking so much about spirit of driving and the drivers of the brand new BMW's would agree. During late 2000's, early 2010's you could find so many of these BMW's in second hand for very cheap. It turns out there is nothing spirited about losing your engine in the middle of a trip or spending 2-4K a year and a significant time in the shop just to keep the car running each year. That was the reason why Nissan created Infiniti G series, the driving pleasure was very close to Bmw yet it was much more reliable.

I was interested in Stromer but honestly I am seeing too many complaints. You seem to have problems even in diagnosing the problems(even the first shop I wanted a test ride of an st1 admitted that their st1 is not working and they didn't know how to fix it). Yes problems happen but for a bicycle this expensive they should be addressed promptly yet the buyer experiences I have seen don't reflect this.

I also see that sometimes you are putting the blame on the owners. Don't do that , it is hurting your brand. Instead improve your reliability. This is after all a Bicycle not a car! The design is vastly simple compared to a car so it is doable.

Focus on your relationship with REI because it has a huge network. LBS's simply don't cut it for an expensive and hard to service bicycle like this. Many people will move so can not be tied to a LBS during the lifetime of this bicycle. It is not fun to pay 6-10K on a bicycle then having to pay $500-1000 on service because you purchased the bicycle from another place then moved. Since you like car analogies here is one. When you buy a BMW, during the warranty period you can get that work done from any dealer you like it will not cost you extra. A place like REI can give you that flexibility.

I hope you understand that I am not trying to bash Stromer. I think you have great potential but right now you are marketing more than improving your product and service. You can not keep on this we are an "exotic" ebike brand marketing.
 
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opimax

Well-Known Member
I had the 2nd g35 coupe I the DC area in 2002 Dec, i did not do well with it either. Many people had great Infinitis and Stromers, I have not. Worse was the way I was treated by the support after having poorly working vehicles.
 

bluecat

Well-Known Member
I hope you understand that I am not trying to bash Stromer. I think you have great potential but right now you are marketing more than improving your product and service.

Thank you for raising this. It gives me the opportunity to show what's new since 2013.

Before 2014, the ST1 was the best buy, as there was nothing better on the market. But Stromer was fully aware about the many issues with the ST1. Ordinary e-bike companies do just e bike assembling; they walk through the suppliers stockroom and pick what might fit. Stromer does developing e-bike components at their own or together with the supplier. The outcome is the proof, why buying a Stromer is worth. Let's compare the former ST1 with the contemporary models:

  • 26" wheels --> 27½" wheels and appropriate frame design
  • 36V system --> 48V system with better efficiency
  • Around 30 NM torque --> up to 48 NM torque for easier riding
  • Mechanical brake --> additional motor brake for gaining energy and saveing brake pads
  • Standard rear light --> brake light
  • Standard front light --> up to full beam light
  • Mechanical lock --> electronic anti-theft lock
  • Motor electronics in the motor housing --> all electronics in the bike frame, no overheating risk
  • Update only at the bike shop --> update over the air

Furthermore, there are several features which did not even exist in a more primitive way on the ST1. If I tell what's the same between the old ST1 and the nes ST1, which is now on sale, the list ist very short:

  • The model name: ST1
  • The brand name: Stromer
 

bluecat

Well-Known Member
Some people buy a high class 4WD car, call it SUV and drive over non paved roads. Now, they feel empowered to talk about the capabilities of a Jeep Rubicon.

The same happens, if people are familiar with ordinary electric bicycles - and then believe to know, how a Stromer does.

Listen to these people, interviewed on a venue in Europe. They talk German and Swiss German, but subtitles are added for your convenience:


Conclusion: You must ride a Stromer to build your own opinion!

If you find no difference to your ordinary e-bike: Lucky guy, save money and keep crawling with your current brand.
If you feel the Stromer spirit: Sorry to remember about the basis of free-market economy: High performance comes along with high prices.
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
I have never ridden a Stromer. I didn't get an e-bike until this year. Had I been looking for an e-bike years ago I might have considered one when a BionX bike was the alternative. But I live in a reasonably hilly area, and I sometimes specifically seek out hilly rides (400+ metres of steep vertical climbing in one ride not being uncommon) and in this era of powerful, lightweight, and long range brand name mid-drive units I didn't strongly consider direct drive hub motor options. It is quite possible to do flat rides where I live, but I prefer it hilly. :)

I'm always open to new info, though. I'd certainly ride a Stromer if I ever had a golden opportunity to do so. But I've got to admit, based on what I know about them, I don't see the appeal.
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
Lucky guy, save money and keep crawling with your current brand.

Crawling on my mid-drive class-3 e-bikes, one of which has 90 Nm of torque and the other of which weighs only 41 pounds? Crawling isn't exactly my description of the experience. Cost isn't an impediment to a Stromer (the retail price of one of my bikes was $6K CAD, the other was $7K CAD). My lack of interest in super expensive direct drive hub motor bikes is the reason why (especially when high-end mid-drive bikes are a thing).

That said, I indicated my interest in additional information, and my interest in test-riding a Stromer if I ever had the opportunity. I was genuinely hoping for you to give me some reason to favour a super-expensive DD hub motor bike, but instead you just sloughed my comment off. *shrug*
 
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Ebike Novice

New Member
Lucky guy, save money and keep crawling with your current brand.

Hi,
I have a lot of resistance when I am not pedaling my brand new ST1X. if am not pedaling the bike immediately start slowing significantly. Is that normal for a Stromer?
Really annoying to think that I may have to pedal at all times except on steeper hills.
Thanks
 

emtbdude

Member
There are so many bikes that are significantly faster than stromers and all of them are a fraction of the price.

The Aventon 500, while a very flawed bike in many important respects, can pull to 29+ mph on flats or slight uphills with moderate effort.

JuicedBikes also top out at around 30 mph.

The Surface604 Shred maxes out at 32 mph.

The Bafang M600 mid drive has a hard cutoff at 28 mph but offers a throttle option.

The Bafang Ultra pulls to at least 34 mph.

When you factor in all of the headaches with defects and Stromer's incompetence in US based customer service, I just laugh at anyone who buys one state-side. There are way too many bikes with superior performance, not to mention the thousands in cost savings even if you ignore the defects and customer service headaches to take Stromer seriously.
 

emtbdude

Member
Lucky guy, save money and keep crawling with your current brand.

The same lame line over and over again. Use some imagination. Then again, whatever it takes to feel better about your generic made in Vietnam/India components that are hung everywhere on your $13K stormer lol.
 

bluecat

Well-Known Member
I was genuinely hoping for you to give me some reason to favour a super-expensive DD hub motor bike, but instead you just sloughed my comment off. *shrug*

There are many reasons, why to buy a Stromer. Some are on the technical side (almost all features are unique), but the main reason should be the driving feeling.

But I've got to admit, based on what I know about them, I don't see the appeal.

It's not so easy to describe the riding feeling - the impression varies depending on the previous experience of the rider. You mentioned motorcycles, so I guess, you would like the ST5 rather than the ST2s. If you do cycling from time to time, you will like the bicycle-like feeling of the motor. If you like acceleration, the ST5 is your Stromer. If you prefer to cruise, the new ST1 might fit.

If you once do a test ride: Ask the dealer for proper settings; like on a sports car, a Stromer has various settings.
 

bluecat

Well-Known Member
I have a lot of resistance when I am not pedaling my brand new ST1X. if am not pedaling the bike immediately start slowing significantly. Is that normal for a Stromer?

On higher speed, like on a Stromer, the air resistance increases significantly - if you stop pedaling, the air resistance helps breaking.

Try to increase the pressure of the tires; these large tires generate some rolling resistance.

Keep your fingers (for quick reaction time) on the brake lever - but if you pull only a little bit, you will activate the (scalable) motor brake - before the mechanical brake is aktive (like in a Tesla).
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
The same lame line over and over again. Use some imagination. Then again, whatever it takes to feel better about your generic made in Vietnam/India components that are hung everywhere on your $13K stormer lol.

I'm all for paying extra for quality and/or performance, but when there's not one thing they can point to that suggests a Stromer is superior in either respect (even when you specifically ask for examples of how it is) then it's not confidence inspiring. Give me a *reason* to investigate further, and I will. But I'm not going to take it on faith.
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
There are many reasons, why to buy a Stromer. Some are on the technical side (almost all features are unique), but the main reason should be the driving feeling.



It's not so easy to describe the riding feeling - the impression varies depending on the previous experience of the rider. You mentioned motorcycles, so I guess, you would like the ST5 rather than the ST2s. If you do cycling from time to time, you will like the bicycle-like feeling of the motor. If you like acceleration, the ST5 is your Stromer. If you prefer to cruise, the new ST1 might fit.

If you once do a test ride: Ask the dealer for proper settings; like on a sports car, a Stromer has various settings.

How can a hub motor (any hub motor) create a more "bicycle-like feeling" than a mid-drive? Nothing's more bicycle like than the drive feeling coming from between the pedals, surely?

Again, you keep making statements without giving us any reason to believe them. I own a shop that could be convinced to sell the darn things, if I had even a single reason why. Right now I don't have a single one, with you only suggesting that they're "better because reasons". I previously asked for actual reasons and got a form letter from you in return.

Are they lighter weight? Is the assist ramp up/down smoother? Are they more powerful? Are they faster? If so, vs. what? By how much?
 

bluecat

Well-Known Member
How can a hub motor (any hub motor) create a more "bicycle-like feeling" than a mid-drive? Nothing's more bicycle like than the drive feeling coming from between the pedals, surely?

Are they lighter weight? Is the assist ramp up/down smoother? Are they more powerful? Are they faster? If so, vs. what? By how much?

I'm not for myStromer AG, I'm a Stromer owner in Switzerland - but I have good connections to the company; so I had the opportunity to test ride almost all models. Test ride means, I've made at least 1'000km on each Stromer.

Bicycle-feeling: Mid-drives cannot complete due to the technical concept (motor and cyclist power must go over drivetrain, its gearing reduces the effective power on the axle). The secret thing is the TMM4 called torque sensor on the rear end and the way how its values set the motor power.

All street legal e-bikes have the same top speed: 45km/h Here in Switzerland, these fast e-bikes are very common. I commute every day on all weather. I met a lot of other brands on my way. No one can follow me on a road with corners, or uphill on public main roads.