Why Electric Bikes Shouldn't Be Allowed on Mountain Biking Trails?

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
Its the asshats and fast bike crowd making problems. And if someone dares speak out about their methods and innuendo, expect a salacious attack. They have attacked me, Court, Grin, eM3ev, and others. The leadership is banned from all but their own forums. Common sense, manners, and adults will win out. As demonstrated in this thread.
 

rustygun

New Member
Update a bit, I ordered a 72V/42Amp Panasonic battery, not for the speed, but the distance. I averaged around 70km with the 25amp factory battery, at 50% pedal input. The bike builder claimed 80 with a full charge, so it was close to the advertised distance. I have ridden most of the off road trails around Stockholm, (so called MBT) without incident, most other riders had positive responses in regards to an Ebike. I think this shows that a similar bond does exist between so called purists and newly arrived electric bikes, leastwise in Europe anyway.

I suspect its the "territorial marking" that becomes so prevalent in the states, something like a dog pissing all over the area he lives in, in some ancient claim to a given area, as it is with all new sports, people don't like to bend or make adjustments to something that has existed in a one off area like snow skiing or bike trails.

It will take years to fine tune the sport of mountain bikes, as there is no conclusive model to prove an Ebike is more destructive to trails than a human powered bike. In the meantime it should be common interest on both sides, without the abuse.
 

Pinot Grigio

New Member
As I'm getting older, I gave up MTB because I can't get in shape enough anymore so I'm looking forward into developing e-bikes for trail use. I'd like to revisit some trails one day on an electric bike. Now I read about banning them from trails. These are my thoughts.
1. I see much more destruction and garbage on some hikers only trails than I see on MTB allowed trails. Probably bikers don't have enough freedom to go off the trail as people on feet do and don't carry as much plastic bottles, food, napkins and dog s*it as hikers do.
2. If the e-bike is basically no different in its shape than normal MTB bike and the motor is only assisting, who will care about this and inspect the bike even if prohibited? What if the motor is turned off and not being used, especially downhill?
3. In my opinion, regulating speed happens by itself in most cases. There is no reason to take a powerful motor bike on a trail crowded with bikers and hikers slowing the traffic anyway. I think that simple information about typical use and expected speed limit at the trailhead is all what we need.
4. I think that electrically assisted MTB bikes is a great idea filling the gap between human powered bike and dirt bikes.
5. The laws and regulations are not carved in stone. Lets relax them in the beginning, see the real hazard to people and environment and then act on it. First on case by case basis, then by establishing some more universal rules.
6. I still think that horses are the worst on trails.
7. I also ride mountain bikes on trails where dirt bikes are allowed and I never noticed any more damage than on other trails. One example "Devils Gulch" in Washington State. Fantastic trail for MTB.
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
As I'm getting older, I gave up MTB because I can't get in shape enough anymore so I'm looking forward into developing e-bikes for trail use. I'd like to revisit some trails one day on an electric bike. Now I read about banning them from trails. These are my thoughts.
1. I see much more destruction and garbage on some hikers only trails than I see on MTB allowed trails. Probably bikers don't have enough freedom to go off the trail as people on feet do and don't carry as much plastic bottles, food, napkins and dog s*it as hikers do.
2. If the e-bike is basically no different in its shape than normal MTB bike and the motor is only assisting, who will care about this and inspect the bike even if prohibited? What if the motor is turned off and not being used, especially downhill?
3. In my opinion, regulating speed happens by itself in most cases. There is no reason to take a powerful motor bike on a trail crowded with bikers and hikers slowing the traffic anyway. I think that simple information about typical use and expected speed limit at the trailhead is all what we need.
4. I think that electrically assisted MTB bikes is a great idea filling the gap between human powered bike and dirt bikes.
5. The laws and regulations are not carved in stone. Lets relax them in the beginning, see the real hazard to people and environment and then act on it. First on case by case basis, then by establishing some more universal rules.
6. I still think that horses are the worst on trails.
7. I also ride mountain bikes on trails where dirt bikes are allowed and I never noticed any more damage than on other trails. One example "Devils Gulch" in Washington State. Fantastic trail for MTB.
Unfortunately what is happening are eBikes as powerful as off road motorcycles. The builders and OEM's are just putting pedals on them to qualify, even if pushing the legality, as bicycles. I have seen trails where users are riding Bosch and similarly sized motors and are being given a pass. Most of the single track trails here are built and developed by MTB clubs and volunteers. If approached with respect and reason they will eventually relax, but with the likes of the developing fast electric bike crowd they are likely to become even more resistant.
 

Nutella

Active Member
5. The laws and regulations are not carved in stone. Lets relax them in the beginning, see the real hazard to people and environment and then act on it. First on case by case basis, then by establishing some more universal rules.
While I agree with you, they aren't easy to change, it'll take money and action on a wide scale to make it happen. People for bikes could do it, but don't seem interested.
 

bitrot

New Member
I don't know if I agree in the saying "eBikes [are] as powerful as off road motorcycles". These are two entirely separate classes of vehicles. That's putting my Barbie PowerWheels in the same class as my Tesla. Yes, they are both battery powered, but are completely separate things. Probably a difference of definition - which is an important thing to define. An eBike that is capable of actively assisting faster than 28MPH is not and eBike. Volt motorcycles and the Stealth B-52 are not eBikes. I think it's important to make the distinction and not just lump everything in to the same "eBike" bucket because if we do it, our lawmakers are going to do the same.

The Stealth B-52 can hit almost 50MPH/80KPH. It's an electric powered dirt bike and should be regulated as one. It doesn't even have pedals.
https://www.stealthelectricbikes.com/

I don't agree that the B-52 is the same as the Trek PS5 with an *assist* up to 20MPH.

We have people that want to use their 4x4 and ATVs in our parks. And it's the same argument - they're going to ruin the delicate ecosystem!

If people want to use 4x4s and ATVs then charge them a fee and use the money to maintain our parks. Those can be used in designated areas away from the single track trails for mountain bikes. And those can be separate from hiking trails, etc, etc.

Not a popular opinion for sure, but I don't believe there is much we can do to damage the earth. Everything we do is going to turn to dust and the earth is going to shake humanity off like a mild case of indigestion. The hole in the ozone isn't hurting the earth, but it's killing us for sure though...
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
Why should a club that built a single track with volunteers and donated funds suddenly allow these machines on their developed track. Join the clubs and convert the members from within. Or stick to the off road vehicle trails.
 

bitrot

New Member
Not to be sa4castic, but please look a bit further at the bikes being built. They are as powerful as offload motorcycles. AND the single tracks around here are built by mountain bike clubs. Join the club, get them to believe, but don't expect them to agree that a 3000W machine with pedals capable of 40MPH belongs on their single track, built by volunteers over a period of years.

Um... the link I provided has a 5200W 80KPH bike called the B-52 - no need to "look a bit further" for anything.

My point, you may have overlooked, is that those bikes aren't eBikes. They're eMotorcycles and they don't belong on the trails designed for MTB.

eBikes, on the other hand, should be allowed. 20MPH/25KPH assist isn't hurting anyone. It's just enabling less fit people to enjoy the trails.

I think we may be saying the same thing...
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
Um... the link I provided has a 5200W 80KPH bike called the B-52 - no need to "look a bit further" for anything.

My point, you may have overlooked, is that those bikes aren't eBikes. They're eMotorcycles and they don't belong on the trails designed for MTB.

eBikes, on the other hand, should be allowed. 20MPH/25KPH assist isn't hurting anyone. It's just enabling less fit people to enjoy the trails.

I think we may be saying the same thing...
Yes, BUT, they are being promoted as bicycles and many are riding them, with pedals, intending to skirt MC rules and licensing. There a facebook page dedicated to fast electric bikes. Eventually we’ll see more enforcement thanks to these clowns. Your example didn’t have pedals which is my resoning for posting another. No offense intended.
 

Nutella

Active Member
Yes, BUT, they are being promoted as bicycles and many are riding them, with pedals, intending to skirt MC rules and licensing. There a facebook page dedicated to fast electric bikes. Eventually we’ll see more enforcement thanks to these clowns. Your example didn’t have pedals which is my resoning for posting another. No offense intended.
Yes, and companies like Luna aren't helping, this is clearly meant to skirt the laws and its 12kw. I'd like to be able to keep riding my ebike where I currently can, I hope the idiots don't ruin it for us.

https://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-9vkj.../9701/Sur-Ron_Steel__72940.1515981782.jpg?c=2
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
Yes, and companies like Luna aren't helping, this is clearly meant to skirt the laws and its 12kw. I'd like to be able to keep riding my ebike where I currently can, I hope the idiots don't ruin it for us.

https://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-9vkj.../9701/Sur-Ron_Steel__72940.1515981782.jpg?c=2
Yup, and you can get kicked out of their facebook page for posting (lawful)slow bikes. 4 having an open discussion, like here. That said i intend to build an offroad if i can license it for road use. I think electric MC’s are brilliant. But wont be hanging pedals. The design i posted the picture of is an incredible build. What’s even crazier to me are the Walmart bikes that many LBS won’t work on converted to 40mph rides with no brake, tire, or rim upgrades.