Wilderness.org e-bikes on federal land

dblhelix

Well-Known Member
Yes it seems not fact based but pure propaganda. The question is who advocates for the ebike community?
It also reads as a reflexive anti-Trump position.

There are much bigger problems than “ebikes on trails.” Really, we should be aligned with all cyclists. Fatalities are up. I’m also tired of the “millions and millions of miles of road available” nonsense. PA-51 is an official bike route and marked as such but this doesn’t mean it’s advisable to ride it unless you enjoy no shoulders at 55mph and Penn DOT workers waving their orange flags while shouting “You’re brave!”
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
Speed is always mentioned in these articles. If acoustic bikes aren't going fast, I doubt an ebike will. At least noise wasn't mentioned. These folks writing about ebikes really need to do more research.

On the research side, I get depressed when I realize most people are too lazy and go strictly on emotions and feelings. We are doomed.
 

dblhelix

Well-Known Member
Speed is always mentioned in these articles. If acoustic bikes aren't going fast, I doubt an ebike will. At least noise wasn't mentioned. These folks writing about ebikes really need to do more research.

On the research side, I get depressed when I realize most people are too lazy and go strictly on emotions and feelings. We are doomed.
It did mention noise — the whirring as the poor pedestrian has to take a dive ...
 

kathik

Member
It did mention noise — the whirring as the poor pedestrian has to take a dive ...
Noise was the first thing that jumped out at me when reading the article.
Two of my bikes have Brose motors and are nearly silent. One has a Yamaha motor and makes a bit of noise.
You can read on a bit farther and see the letter that was sent. Large number of signers were involved with horses. No one group causes more damage to trails than horses.
 

dblhelix

Well-Known Member
Noise was the first thing that jumped out at me when reading the article.
Two of my bikes have Brose motors and are nearly silent. One has a Yamaha motor and makes a bit of noise.
You can read on a bit farther and see the letter that was sent. Large number of signers were involved with horses. No one group causes more damage to trails than horses.
This is dated 8-21 and NPS made their decision in favor of ebikes after this date. I imagine this letter was submitted for the “against” position.

I don’t know of anyone outside of horse owners who are in favor of them and their giant poop piles on trails. Horses can be quite skittish around non-e bikes, so imagine the reaction to larger “whirring” bikes — probably why so many supported this position.
 

kathik

Member
This is dated 8-21 and NPS made their decision in favor of ebikes after this date. I imagine this letter was submitted for the “against” position.

I don’t know of anyone outside of horse owners who are in favor of them and their giant poop piles on trails. Horses can be quite skittish around non-e bikes, so imagine the reaction to larger “whirring” bikes — probably why so many supported this position.
I love horses. I own a horse. I would never take my horse on a rail trail. A lot of horses are petrified of anything with moving wheels.
An out of control horse can do a lot more damage to someone than any e-bike could ever come close to doing.
Most of the horseback riders I have met on local trails are very pleasant. When I see horses coming my way I pull off the trail and give them lots of space to go around me.
Everyone just needs to me more tolerant of other groups who just want to share the great outdoors!
 

Rincon

Active Member
This is dated 8-21 and NPS made their decision...
It was bigger than the NPS. It was the Department of the Interior which administers the NPS, BLM, and other agencies. However the order does not include any of the National Forests as they are administered by the Department of Agriculture. I expect the DoA will follow the DoI’s lead.
 

Mulezen

Active Member
I love horses. I own a horse. I would never take my horse on a rail trail. A lot of horses are petrified of anything with moving wheels.
An out of control horse can do a lot more damage to someone than any e-bike could ever come close to doing.
Most of the horseback riders I have met on local trails are very pleasant. When I see horses coming my way I pull off the trail and give them lots of space to go around me.
Everyone just needs to me more tolerant of other groups who just want to share the great outdoors!
My donkey complains loudly, snorts and trots off when I come riding down the drive...acoustic or ebike...equal opportunity hater
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
In my part of the country, horses do damage to trails but then the Backcountry Horsemen who seem to be against ebikes in one article I read due to the noise (again) do a tremendous amount of trail maintenance and even pack in materials for bridges and stuff.

I came around a corner, slowly, on an Idaho trail and there was a horse coming my way. It startled me and did startle the horse just a little. I promptly stopped and got out of the way. Both of us were perfectly legal to be on the trail.
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
And BRAIN now are reporting a second lawsuit was filed in a DC court, against the NPS order, this time by a non-profit environmental group called Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER) and Co-plaintiffs Wilderness Watch, Marin Conservation League, Environmental Action Committee of West Marin, Save Our Seashore, and three individuals. Quote from PEER press release "The PEER suit cites several legal impediments to the NPS order, including that it: Violated NPS’s own regulations that may not be set aside by administrative fiat; Improperly evaded legally-required environmental reviews; and came from an official who lacked the authority to issue such an order." PEER Executive Director Tim Whitehouse stated “This e-bikes order illustrates an improper and destructive way to manage our National Parks,” and "E-bikes represent another inroad of commercialized recreation into our national parks."

An NPS spokesperson responded "We will continue to work with park superintendents to implement our common sense e-bikes' policy."
 
Last edited:

Browneye

Well-Known Member
And hence my comment/question to Court on advocacy, "Ask Court Anything".
There must be SOMETHING we can do.
Marin county? That's the bay area, right? They don't want eMTB's riding the Sierra trails.
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
And hence my comment/question to Court on advocacy, "Ask Court Anything".
There must be SOMETHING we can do.
Marin county? That's the bay area, right? They don't want eMTB's riding the Sierra trails.
Personally I'd just as not see downhill bikes on any trail other than those specifically
designated trails. I was mountain biking in the late 50s, & have subsequently been
enlightened by a diverse array of injuries. If they want to break their necks, that is their
prerogative, but hey, I'm waikin' here! Take the testosterone elsewhere. I've got no
beef with responsible, courteous use of trails, but not in designated wilderness.
 
Last edited:

john peck

Well-Known Member
There are so many old logging roads here you could spend years exploring them, & never have to use a trail.
At my age they're good deal more comfortable than jarring loose the few teeth I have left on rocks & roots.
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
BRAIN sheds light on the basis for the PEER lawsuit, reportedly the NPS consulted with the BPSA/PfB, IMBA & Adventure Cycling Association as members of an NPS "E-bike Partner & Agency Group", but not with the groups bringing the lawsuit before announcing the policy change so they are claiming a violation of transparency regulations under the Federal Advisory Committee Act. If this oversight turns into one of those "For want of a nail" scenarios it could unravel the Secretary of the Interiors ebike order.