With a 5kw battery does the Sondors 5grand Emoto presents the proof that ebikers are getting ripped off by Bosch and others ??

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I doubt that anyone is losing money selling ebikes. It is likely that markups are very high which explains why there are so many ebike sellers including high end and low end bikes. It looks like price and feature competition might be starting to kick in some and that might accelerate as we come out of the pandemic and especially as the market gets more saturated.
Two replies in one:
The 35.2 pounder was a Specialized conversion with thru-frame wires. It is purple. 80Nm. The scales in the photo are metric and upside-down. 6.2 + 9.8 Kg at the rear. 60/40 weight distribution 8cm above the hubs.
I wonder about Economic Zones. Within these labor is highly subsidized to train young workers into skilled labor.
 

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rich c

Well-Known Member
This made me think of the Livewire EMotorcycle from Harley at 30K at 25K more than the new Sondors, the question is, is it really worth it?
Yes it's a better machine, but I am solid middle class and I can't afford that. I can afford the new Sondors I was thinking of spending that much on a new Ebike anyways.
But Sonders replacement parts are the lowest prices in the industry as well, their profit margin must be razor thin and they must be buying better then anybody else, for example their Bafang ultra is only $349.00, that is a crazy low price if you know what other places sell that for. Their 48V 21amp/hr battery is only $459.00 that is very low, and it has already been tested to go all day. By comparison, not to pick on anybody but to show you what a deal that really is, Biktrix charges $819.00 to upgrade to that specification.
Sondors can work on a thin margin because they unload boxes from China and put them on a delivery truck. They went years before they hired someone to do any customer tech help. Before that a privately owned Facebook page was "their tech support" and they openly told customers to visit that site for answers. Lots of customers thought it was a Sondors owned page, it was not. They've never spent a penny on orders because they don't order them from China until a container is sold. As far as I know, they only pay for a designer to do a rendering so they can sell units, then the Chinese do the engineering. The mid drive eBikes were a classic. They sold out before anyone even knew what the specs were on the eBike. Not even Sondors knew the final specs when they sold them. They didn't know the weight until units were made and they turned out nearly 30 pounds heavier than predicted. They survive on a very loyal customer base who doesn't even care about anything but price and aggressive price marketing that makes everyone silly about buying one because the early pricing is crazy cheap. Customers have bought bikes that they can't even ride. They didn't pay any attention to one size fits some, it was just cheap. The cheap price will last a short time, but those first cheap ones bring them a ton of free press and forum marketing. It's been wildly successful for them.
 
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Scarlet/Fire

Active Member
Region
USA
I do not have much experience with Sondors having only worked on and ridden two. These are Hee-Haw monsters. They are very heavy porkers. The welds are cheep. There are bundles of ugly wires at the handlebar. The handling is terrible. The new LX has a low range and cannot take hills very well. One would not know this from a data sheet. It is a matter of riding the bikes side-by-side. You could look at a data sheet of a crappy piano and see that it has the same number of strings as a Steinway. I just put a nice new chain on a Sondors today as part of a tune up. If someone does not know better and they are happy, that is great. A good eBike will weigh-in at 35 pounds. I did repair a throttle yesterday by using a set screw on the underside.
Thank You,I’ll spread the word- Hey everybody-Surprise! Your bikes are No Good! PS - good music can only be played on expensive vintage American guitars! Sorry kids,put down those squires!!!!
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
31 inch tires were set and locked in programing at 26, throwing off the speedometer by 20%. They did not QC the bike and calibrate it with a test ride.
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
31 inch tires were set and locked in programing at 26, throwing off the speedometer by 20%. They did not QC the bike and calibrate it with a test ride.
26" is a "trade designation" that is standard in the industry, I believe it is rim size that is set on the programing at the standard 26" for all 4 plus fat tires
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
26" is a "trade designation" that is standard in the industry, I believe it is rim size that is set on the programing at the standard 26" for all 4 plus fat tires
Thanks. Having peer review and input is important. On some you set the tire circumference and change this number as you change tire sizes. On X35s you can only change it by 5% in the programing. Lowering it by 5% means the bike will travel faster than the 20K limit on large tires. I wanted to tell the Sondors that it had 12" tires.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Not sure what signature you are referring to. My R&M Mountain is pearl white in color. Here is a shot of itView attachment 81576
Regarding battery size, capacity, weight and range, we can learn from the parallel universe of toy drones. You can put a 5Kw on a toy drone and it will not be able to lift the weight of the battery. It's flight time is zero. Reduce the battery's size/weight and flight time/range increases to a point. I found this concept to apply to a R&Muller bike with two huge batteries where the curve flattens and goes negative in carrying excess battery capacity. Handling is also vastly improved on bikes that weight less, so it is optimal to stay on the left side of the curve. I am doing a modular battery system on a cargo bike today. Batteries of four sizes can be used on this bike depending on the needs and goals for that day's ride.
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Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
In response to to some of the earlier comments : i knew that the Sondors products were dirt cheap with inferior components but this emoto came out as a total surprise as it looks very refined , well built and with great specs.
I don't see anyone carrying that 54lb battery longer then 45seconds. Maybe with a set of sturdy wheels at the bottom and a strong titanium/carbon fiber handle ? Copyright Ebiker01.

That makes me grateful that our ebikes batteries are less then 12lb.

Now , if they improve their warranty, customer service and also make better ebikes that would make the whole market more competitive.