Wow, Nakto turned out to be junk, so what should I get?

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
If you get a hub drive kit from Grin, they sell torque sensors that replace the bottom bracket with a torque sensing bottom bracket and you can use the square taper cranks of your choice. Rear hub drive kits are a little more work to install, but not too bad if you are already comfortable working on bikes. Mid-drives perform better on long hills that might overheat a hub motor, but hub motors will get you home even if your chain breaks and will cause less wear and tear on your drive train.
 

Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
@harryS I was indeed looking at mid drives, and if what @EMGX said about the non-standard cranks and chainrings being the norm on them, screw that. Completely removes mid-drive from my choices... particularly when I've already got cranks and chainrings here I was planning on using.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Well, I have a box full of parts I that bought for various bike projects that never found their way onto the bike because I changed my mind after buying them. Some of them will eventually get used for another project. There are good reasons for choosing a mid-drive, mostly carrying a lot of weight up very long hills and very low speed riding in hilly areas. Hub drives do fine on most hills, but you need to keep their speed up while climbing and they can overheat on very long climbs.

It also worth noting that the Bafang BBSXX motors do not have a torque sensor, just a basic PAS sensor. The TSDZ2 has a torque sensor and I think CYC would be another option. But there are not a lot of choices for DIY mid-drive motors that have torque sensors.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
@harryS I was indeed looking at mid drives, and if what @EMGX said about the non-standard cranks and chainrings being the norm on them, screw that. Completely removes mid-drive from my choices... particularly when I've already got cranks and chainrings here I was planning on using.
Mid-drives come with a chainring attached and crank arms in the box so that is not a big issue. You can always toss those if you want. On the type @EMGX mentioned the chainring BCD is 110. That is one common standard for chainrings and both of the crank arms that come with the motor are standard square taper. I often use other chainrings than come with a kit or different crank arms such as polished ones instead of regular matte black. It is easier to change a chain on a mid-drive than a rear flat on a hub-drive. I put a 50-T narrow wide ring on the orange cargo bike because of the small rear wheel.
 

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Jason Knight

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Region
USA
Mid-drives come with a chainring attached and crank arms in the box so that is not a big issue
Excepting when they don't match my pacing or are too small... Christmas on a cracker the norm is 42 now?

. You can always toss those if you want. On the type @EMGX mentioned the chainring BCD is 110. That is one common standard for chainrings
Which is pretty useless when everything I have seems to be 130. And you can't always toss on what you want when:

and both of the crank arms that come with the motor are standard square taper.
Said cranks are non-standard for the drive-side, being a mirror of the simple left one. So now we go from three piece to four piece.

I'd probably also object less of the ones that actually have that mirrored arrangement didn't look like cheap cast pig-iron... or at least that's what they look like in the pics.

It is easier to change a chain on a mid-drive than a rear flat on a hub-drive. I put a 50-T narrow wide ring on the orange cargo bike because of the small rear wheel.
Yeah, I hate small wheels, never feels like I can balance worth a damn on them. For example I've no clue how people use scooters or skate boards, I just fall flat on my arse every time. 24's are iffy, 20's are outright dangerous. Like those unridable folding bike piles of junk that I wouldn't trust to go ten yards on.

Though that could be my various medical conditions, medication induced parkinsonism is a bitch. Another reason I want larger tires is better stability.

Honestly ... the more I'm looking at this tech, the more I realize I'm just lighting money on fire. Almost half the reviews of this stuff talking about the controller's dying certainly isn't helping. There's so many bad engineering choices that are setting off my BS alarm. It all seems very sleazy, poorly thought out, and fly-by-night.

I've gone from thinking about DIY to saying screw it and just going back to using my normal bike. It could just be this technology isn't for me. Again, it all looks like Dell or crApple products: endless proprietary vendor lock in, irrational non-standard choices making it harder to work with for no reason, and run provided by companies I'd trust about as far as I could throw the USS Iowa.

It's really not helping so much of this stuff just looks so rinky and cheaply made. And strangely it seems the bigger the brand and more reviews a brand has, the cheaper and poorly engineered the products look.

Worse if these things die as much as it sounds, it's also a rich man's sport. When by the time I'm done it will cost me more than my car? NO!

Sorry for wasting everyone's time, I think I'm done with it. I'll check back in a decade to see if it's still s*it. I am NOT impressed.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
42 tooth chainrings and even smaller are pretty standard on mountain bikes and other 1X setups. If you have a double or triple in the front, then you can have a 52 tooth big ring. However, with only a 52 upfront, even with a 42 tooth dishplate in the back your lowest gear will be 37 gear inches. That isn't very good for hilly areas unless you spend six hours a day training like the pros and have legs like tree trunks.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Excepting when they don't match my pacing or are too small... Christmas on a cracker the norm is 42 now?


Which is pretty useless when everything I have seems to be 130. And you can't always toss on what you want when:


Said cranks are non-standard for the drive-side, being a mirror of the simple left one. So now we go from three piece to four piece.

I'd probably also object less of the ones that actually have that mirrored arrangement didn't look like cheap cast pig-iron... or at least that's what they look like in the pics.


Yeah, I hate small wheels, never feels like I can balance worth a damn on them. For example I've no clue how people use scooters or skate boards, I just fall flat on my arse every time. 24's are iffy, 20's are outright dangerous. Like those unridable folding bike piles of junk that I wouldn't trust to go ten yards on.

Though that could be my various medical conditions, medication induced parkinsonism is a bitch. Another reason I want larger tires is better stability.

Honestly ... the more I'm looking at this tech, the more I realize I'm just lighting money on fire. Almost half the reviews of this stuff talking about the controller's dying certainly isn't helping. There's so many bad engineering choices that are setting off my BS alarm. It all seems very sleazy, poorly thought out, and fly-by-night.

I've gone from thinking about DIY to saying screw it and just going back to using my normal bike. It could just be this technology isn't for me. Again, it all looks like Dell or crApple products: endless proprietary vendor lock in, irrational non-standard choices making it harder to work with for no reason, and run provided by companies I'd trust about as far as I could throw the USS Iowa.

It's really not helping so much of this stuff just looks so rinky and cheaply made. And strangely it seems the bigger the brand and more reviews a brand has, the cheaper and poorly engineered the products look.

Worse if these things die as much as it sounds, it's also a rich man's sport. When by the time I'm done it will cost me more than my car? NO!

Sorry for wasting everyone's time, I think I'm done with it. I'll check back in a decade to see if it's still s*it. I am NOT impressed.
Do a search for Parkinson's and Cycling. This stuff is amazing.
You are correct that a lot of it is proprietary junk and the more "reviews" on a seller's site the worse the product. That is why I go for verified independent reviews. I get it about throwing in the towel. I screwed up a lot at first with eBikes. That is expensive tuition. I am not rich but made the investment anyway to get up on the curve.
Cadence must be high on a torque sensing mid-drive, hence the standard 42-T. It may not be for you.
Did you like the look of the polished aluminum crank arms?
 

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PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I forgot to mention that most 130BCD rings can be drilled to 110, if you are into that sort of thing. I just lay them on top of each other mark, pilot and drill.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA

Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
42 tooth chainrings and even smaller are pretty standard on mountain bikes and other 1X setups. If you have a double or triple in the front, then you can have a 52 tooth big ring. However, with only a 52 upfront, even with a 42 tooth dishplate in the back your lowest gear will be 37 gear inches. That isn't very good for hilly areas unless you spend six hours a day training like the pros and have legs like tree trunks.
My normal 26" bike came with 42 and it drove me insane as in the lowest gear your feet go batshit whist the output is nonexistent. You end up going so low on momentum you can't even get up a hill without getting off as there's not enough juice to do anything. That's why I went initially to 52 and eventually 58. For me on a standard cassette or a internal hub, 58 is just about right with a 28 as the largest front, because I've NEVER needed, wanted, or found useful anything below 2:1.

Also why it's annoying all the so-called "experts" saying I'm too short to be using 170mm cranks. Slower with more force to me takes less energy than whizzing my feet around like a maniac going nowhere. Even with hills. On the three speed I use first to get going, third for cruising, and second for hills. I don't think I've ever once dropped into first for a hill other than this one 35 degree burner that's far too long for its own good.

But then I'm one of these bikers who wonders what the blazes you need more than around 7 gears for unless your smallest is too big and your largest is too small. That double-derailleur junk being a big steaming pile than a normal one. Nothing like having both ends of the chain designed to come off. Though to be fair I can leg press 500 like it was nothing. Heh, back in high school some 35 years ago I used to set the press to 750 and have a friend stand on the weights. If only I had the upper body to match where I start wussing out around 80 no matter how much work I put into it.
 

RunForTheHills

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Region
USA
Though to be fair I can leg press 500 like it was nothing. Heh, back in high school some 35 years ago I used to set the press to 750 and have a friend stand on the weights. If only I had the upper body to match where I start wussing out around 80 no matter how much work I put into it.
I guess you do have legs like tree trunks.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I guess you do have legs like tree trunks.
Bafang time. These cadence sensor only motors work for slow riders who pound down. Bang, Bang. Chains will require regular replacement on a Bafang. Torque sensor bikes are like swimming in a lap pool with scuba fins, smooth, light and fast especially while clipped-in for the back sweep and up sweep. One practice for riding a torque sensor bike is to clip in one foot at a time to get the full motion feel. That is not for you.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
My pants inseam is 28" and I use 170 mm cranks.
I also cross 80 hills with 60 lb groceries, and use a simple geared hub motor. 330 lb gross weight. People on this forum are stuck on mid-drives. I like bolting the motor in an hour, making some torque arms in an hour, making a controller hanger in an hour, making a battery hanger in 2 hours, clipping on some wire, bolting on the throttle, and riding. I get 5000 miles per 8 speed chain, try that on a bafang bbs or similar. The messy wiring helps discourage thieves.
I'm with you on 20" wheels. People that ride those never cross a pothole or 2" high pavement separator. Or live to regret it. My wheels are 26" x 2.1". I'm not going to try fat tire, I'm not on fluffy beach & I don't ride in powder snow. I do ride unpowered 80% of the time, so a geared hub motor that doesn't drag unpowered is important to me. In mid drives, only Yamaha, shimano, and brose don't drag unpowered.
In buying a whole bike, look at the brand forums and count the number of known problems. Not foolproof but some sort of indication of who sells garbage. Nakto count of problems is zero, for example. Maybe you should post to that thread. Look for models with a 16" or 17" frame if you are as short as me.
I have to say, a $1000 to $1500 bike gets you in the territory of the $280 MTB. Imitation steel spokes & rims, imitation steel cables that stretch all the time, shimano 7 speed axle that comes unscrewed & drops the balls out on the road, blah blah. My yubabike was $1900 without electricity with 2 bags, double stand, basket, came perfect, had sram shifters that didn't need adjustment, cable brakes that need adjustment every 1000 miles, and just now @ 7500 miles are some things wearing out. Electricity was $820 more. The first 2 batteries were garbage, amazon, then ebay. If you diy get a littakal or something with a reputation.
 
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retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
My normal 26" bike came with 42 and it drove me insane as in the lowest gear your feet go batshit whist the output is nonexistent. You end up going so low on momentum you can't even get up a hill without getting off as there's not enough juice to do anything. That's why I went initially to 52 and eventually 58. For me on a standard cassette or a internal hub, 58 is just about right with a 28 as the largest front, because I've NEVER needed, wanted, or found useful anything below 2:1.

Also why it's annoying all the so-called "experts" saying I'm too short to be using 170mm cranks. Slower with more force to me takes less energy than whizzing my feet around like a maniac going nowhere. Even with hills. On the three speed I use first to get going, third for cruising, and second for hills. I don't think I've ever once dropped into first for a hill other than this one 35 degree burner that's far too long for its own good.

But then I'm one of these bikers who wonders what the blazes you need more than around 7 gears for unless your smallest is too big and your largest is too small. That double-derailleur junk being a big steaming pile than a normal one. Nothing like having both ends of the chain designed to come off. Though to be fair I can leg press 500 like it was nothing. Heh, back in high school some 35 years ago I used to set the press to 750 and have a friend stand on the weights. If only I had the upper body to match where I start wussing out around 80 no matter how much work I put into it.
Just want to say hello. I live about 20 minutes east of you off 101. We live in a great area for biking, but very little is flat. That's why I bought a mid drive bike with wide range gearing this spring. I no longer fear the hills...

Knowing how little flat terrain there is around Keene, I'd be wary of hub drives, many of which seem to have cooling problems, unless you want to stick to the few trails and roads that are relatively flat, and most of those roads busy with traffic. Maybe others can chime in about their experience with hub drives in hilly areas? Using throttle only? All I read here is how often they burn out with this use.

The problem with your favored 7 speed drive systems is that they're all low end, so won't last that long, and don't have a particularly wide range of gearing. Since you want throttle, not pedal assist, maybe that doesn't matter, but maybe you want a scooter, not a bike? 10 speed systems like I have give you a wide range of gearing, with the low you need for hills (relevant for pedal assist, maybe not for throttle?) and the higher gears for downhills.
 

Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
Just want to say hello. I live about 20 minutes east of you off 101. We live in a great area for biking, but very little is flat. That's why I bought a mid drive bike with wide range gearing this spring. I no longer fear the hills...
So... Dublin? Peterboro? I lived in Dublin for a bit.
Knowing how little flat terrain there is around Keene, I'd be wary of hub drives, many of which seem to have cooling problems, unless you want to stick to the few trails and roads that are relatively flat, and most of those roads busy with traffic. Maybe others can chime in about their experience with hub drives in hilly areas? Using throttle only? All I read here is how often they burn out with this use.
In Keene I wouldn't exactly call it hilly, though the surrounding areas most certainly are. If this is hilly enough to kill hub motors, what do people in ACTUALLY hilly areas do? I mean sure, I'm NOT going to go out Route 9 towards Brat, I'd expect that uphill to kill any e-bike in a minute flat; same for going over Temple Mt. on 101.

But if we talk heading down the rail trails in/out of Keene either west or south, I can go ten to twenty miles of nothing but flat. Like there's basically zip on the rail trail between here and Troy I'd call an actual incline.

But then I grew up in southern Plymouth, MA where going from Cedarville to Ellisville, or from Manomet to downtown Plymouth we had REAL hills much akin to the Peterborough area. Plymouth is weird, 40 mile long "town" that has boroughs like it was a city.

The problem with your favored 7 speed drive systems is that they're all low end, so won't last that long, and don't have a particularly wide range of gearing.
I've never understood the whole need for an absurd number of gear ratios, but again I've been riding 3 speed internals for 30+ years. I'm wondering how/why you'd say that a 7 speed -- unrelated to the motor that drives it or at least should be -- wouldn't "last" since it's basically just a 21 speed without the front derailleur.

Though if you're dealing with mid-drive, then I could see it since you're doing drive input to the cart, not after it. That's something else which seems a bit of a wonk on mid-drive alongside the non-standard proprietary stuff that has made me reject them outright.

... and I've been watching reviewers do hill climbs on hub motor bikes, and they do in fact seem up to the task so long as you stay in assist.

That said since it looks like even if the refund on the old bike comes through today the best shipping still has me at mid-august for any alternatives, that puts more $$$ into my budget for this getting me out of the "really really cheap stuff".

Since you want throttle, not pedal assist, maybe that doesn't matter,
No, I want BOTH. In fact I plan on riding mostly in PA and wouldn't mind PA only. I just don't want that half-tweet nose-breathing twist-grip garbage since it damned near killed a friend of mine. Why that seems to be standard on so many bikes given how it seems most every review I read or watch, or person I talk to bitches about what trash they are? Yeah, something's skeezy with these bike makers. It's why my first question on manufacturer's sites is "how easy is this to switch from twist to thumb?". Thankfully that part seems standardized as if there's only a couple companies actually making them... it's just a shame so many makers are now obsessed with hiding the wiring making such changes hard to get to.

but maybe you want a scooter, not a bike? 10 speed systems like I have give you a wide range of gearing, with the low you need for hills (relevant for pedal assist, maybe not for throttle?) and the higher gears for downhills.
I'm just looking to extend my range and lower the fatigue, as well as have something viable for the winter months. Scooters are NOT good for snow especially when most have those dipshit tiny tires resulting in lower gyroscopic precession. As I said before, I don't know how people actually ride things like skateboards, scooters, etc, etc. without always falling flat on their arse. The ONE time I tried a moped I couldn't even get five feet before it fell over... but magically once I get up to 24" or larger on tires I'm fine. Lands sake, I can track-stand so it's not my balance at issue!

Gonna work on a new post outlining the changes to my requirements, and what I'm considering. I've had time to stew, calm down, and come at this fresh. Just sucks I'm three months deep on this and have gotten likely not even three hours total e-bike ride-time in... so I've been out on the normal cruiser. I now have to accept that this summer is a wash.

Which is a shame given the amazingly low temps we seem to have lined up for August. 42 degrees here in the valley last night. Low enough for evaporative frost on the neighbors fence.
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
So... Dublin? Peterboro? I lived in Dublin for a bit.

In Keene I wouldn't exactly call it hilly, though the surrounding areas most certainly are. If this is hilly enough to kill hub motors, what do people in ACTUALLY hilly areas do? I mean sure, I'm NOT going to go out Route 9 towards Brat, I'd expect that uphill to kill any e-bike in a minute flat; same for going over Temple Mt. on 101.

But if we talk heading down the rail trails in/out of Keene either west or south, I can go ten to twenty miles of nothing but flat. Like there's basically zip on the rail trail between here and Troy I'd call an actual incline.
Yes, I live in the higher of those two towns! Any ride I do has a significant uphill component of close to 1000 feet. My favorite ride, to a neighboring town for lunch, has a steep 300' climb near the start, mostly downhill to the town, flat for about 1/2 the ride back, then two miles of climbing about 800 feet on the way home. I don't think a hub drive would survive much of the riding around here. I have a mid drive, and I use my gears on my rides. Actually, I use the slowest gears most, for hill climbing. The fastest three gears I could do without, since I don't have much desire to go faster than mid 20s, even going downhill, given the narrow tree lined roads with limited sightlines I'm on. But my rides go past multiple ponds (lakes to you non-NH folks...) so there's no need to rush the rides. Too much to look at, and hear. Listened to loons calling on a ride a few days ago.

Yes, you can find some flatter rides in the Asheulot river valley, but they're not the prettiest around here. I do a ride in Harrisville, for example, that goes along 5 ponds. But it's hardly flat.
 

Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
Alright, after "I refuse to believe two in a row broke", "steaming pile of garbage the whole technology", "can anyone make a recommendation in my poverty budget", and "screw this I'm done!", I've gotten to acceptance. Gotta love those five stages of grief.

Since I should today or tomorrow see my refund finally arrive, and I've now got another $500-1000 I can throw towards my budget as I put extra work in last month, I've been revisiting my options. I've had a lot of advice that the "Really expensive ones are as bad as the cheap", which doesn't surprise me at all. I've dealt with overpriced junk computers built by scam artists Alienware and Apple. :D

It's apparent that what would best suit me is to:

1) go at least 750 watt, or one of the 1000 watt "peak" that's really a 750. That seems a good miniimum.

2) spend $1800 to $2100.

3) be prepared to do a lot of customization and try to stick to brands that use "normal" parts.

Again, a bit like a computer, it's the parts on the inside -- Asus, MSI, AsRock, AMD, Intel, nVidia -- that matter, not the junk brand on the outside (HP, Dell, etc). Doesn't seem to matter if it's Aventor, Cyrusher, Nakto, Ecotric, Rad... what I want to look for is Bafang, Shimano, SRAM, etc.

I don't want folding, I don't trust it and the upper is often too high.

I've narrowed my choices down to just two. The Aventon Adventure, and the Cryrusher X650.

The Cyrusher looks like the lowest seat point is well below where I keep my seat on my normal 26" bike. I can see where the wiring connects are likely making it easier to swap out parts, and it looks like it comes with enough wire I might even be able to swap it to cruiser bars instead of this garbage "lean so far forward the cyclist behind you can see your taint" straight bar rubbish. Not a fan. How do people ride those without their back screaming "what the devil are you doing to me?!?"

It says 1000w but most reviews say it's really a 750, and that's fine. The battery looks like the same battery a lot of other brands use -- like the Rad -- and I tend to favor standardization of parts. I also like that it comes in a rainbow of colour choices since I've got this red/black theme going on with damned near everything, though I should NOT allow "bling bling" to influence my choice so much! Part of me wonders if all the glitzy trim and colours are actually there to hide some engineering sins.

The biggest drawbacks seeming to be stock level/waiting period might not even get me a bike until September, and that it comes with a twist shifter which is on my "do not want" list.

The Aventon seems to be next-level for a host of reasons. Hydraulic brakes, says it's a 750 because it's a 750, larger battery, better quality shifter and drive, and it comes with a thumb throttle. The display looks to be higher quality, and overall it just seems to have a more polished and professional fit and finish. Also looks like if I order from them I might actually get it before august is out.

The thing that impresses me the most about them -- and may likely be the deciding factor -- is that they actually have different frame sizes for the same size tires and overall equipment! The "small" might be overkill since the measurements of their "medium" match my normal 26" cruiser.

For negatives it looks like they kept the wiring short so unless I make a bunch of custom extensions swapping out the bars for something humane is right out. Likewise the colour choices don't exactly wow me, though I could always just get the black and swap out some trim. NOT like I don't now have a bunch of red trim pieces like headset spacers, chainrings, and so forth. I'm also not wild about the non-standard battery placement since I tend to put function ahead of form. Christmas only knows where the controller is in it and how easy/difficult the access is. (what with my wanting to mount a second battery across a 3 position switch on the rear rack)

Opinions or suggestions within that $1900 to $2100 range? Remember:

1) fat tires for year-round ground pound.

2) prefer thumb throttle over twist since I probably would be one of the dumbasses that accidentally sends the bike flying trying to get on/off

3) 7 speeds is overkill for me. Never understood why people need more than that.

4) As many standard parts as possible. I don't like proprietary BS. It's why I don't buy pre-built computers and consider Dell and Apple to be sleazy dirtbags that prey on the gullible and ignorant.

5) Easy access to cable connection since I'm definitely swapping out whatever weaksauce light they come with for a custom T6 arrangement, and if it has a twist that's getting swapped out as fast as I can get the parts.

6) NORMAL square taper cranks and 130mm chainring, not the goofy proprietary garbage that seems to be the norm on mid-drive.

7) Full fenders, though I can aftermarket that if I have to. As it is looks like most "full fender" bikes and options do NOT come down far enough behind the front tire, so I'll likely have to do some rubber-shaping and riveting there.

I dunno, from what I'm seeing I think the Aventon looks like my winner.
 

Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
Yes, I live in the higher of those two towns! Any ride I do has a significant uphill component of close to 1000 feet. My favorite ride, to a neighboring town for lunch, has a steep 300' climb near the start, mostly downhill to the town, flat for about 1/2 the ride back, then two miles of climbing about 800 feet on the way home. I don't think a hub drive would survive much of the riding around here.
It's part of why I moved back to Keene. Biking in Dublin whilst pretty, wasn't fun. And there was really nowhere to go/do anything since I lived directly across the street from Dublin General and the Post. Where I am in Keene it's nice to be able to pick up the rail trail directly behind the police station/ice arena (which is nearly across the street) by going through the DPW parking, and to zip unhindered down the trail to Railroad crossing where there's a half-dozen restaurants in one block. When that Nakto was working that wasn't even a two minute dash for something that normally takes me around five minutes on the three speed.
I have a mid drive, and I use my gears on my rides. Actually, I use the slowest gears most, for hill climbing. The fastest three gears I could do without, since I don't have much desire to go faster than mid 20s, even going downhill, given the narrow tree lined roads with limited sightlines I'm on.
Because I have non-24 sleep wake disorder, I ride at all sorts of crazy times of day and night. (I live a 26 hour day... it's complicated) When I want to zip out to the north end of town for 7-11 instead of the downtown Cumby's it was nice to open all the way up to the 26mph limit. There are a lot of places I would never want to go that fast for the reasons you stated, but it's nice to have the option.

Hell, coming down Appel Way from Wheelock park, to at the halfway point turn onto the dirt trail heading towards Ashuelot Park, I get my normal bike up to 30 if it's late-night and I know nobody else is out there. Though I might cut back on doing that at 3am and find another route, given I've run into bears TWICE now. I'm packing when I do deep woods treks (little .357 mag bobbed snubby, though I'm thinking on switching to a CZ P-10F), but I'd rather not kill wildlife just because my dumbass is out in THEIR backyard. Unlike a lot of the gun packing yoyo's and yahoo's around here who draw on anything that moves, and can't even go to Walmart without their penis extension and two extra mags.
But my rides go past multiple ponds (lakes to you non-NH folks...) so there's no need to rush the rides. Too much to look at, and hear. Listened to loons calling on a ride a few days ago.

Yes, you can find some flatter rides in the Asheulot river valley, but they're not the prettiest around here. I do a ride in Harrisville, for example, that goes along 5 ponds. But it's hardly flat.
It's why I like the trail here that follows the rivers. Or the southern rail trail heading towards Troy that has the river, a lake, and the covered bridge at Sawyers Crossing.

The rail trails in general once you get out of town are nice. Because they were once for rail they're rarely more than a 5 grade, they have added bridges over many main roads at what were once dangerous crossings, and if you know a few key spots there are even bridges that go UNDER the main drag, like the one on-campus that goes between the freshman dorms and the athletic field, letting you skip going across the smaller practice field and trying to cross 101 where there's no crossing.

Oh, and a pond is a body of water with no tributaries. A lake is either at the start of a river or has one going through it. That's the actual difference if you're going to use the terms properly.

Not that proper usage means squat here in New England. I grew up on "Great Herring Pond" in Cedarville which was actually a lake, since a river runs through it. Up here in NH they seem to throw the term "lake" at what in Taxachusetts we called a drainage ditch. It's screwy but nobody in Mass actually even uses the word "lake". One of the many reasons that "Spencer for Hire" thanksgiving special was so offensive. Nobody from Plymouth has the Kennedy accent, there is no "lake", the county sheriff would not be the one responding to a murder since there's a full (corrupt) town police department, and the Plantation doesn't sell turkeys.

But then when they actually stock the drainage ditches with fish like the ones in Winchester? Ah, Winchester. You can replace the punchline from any Jeff Foxworthy joke with "You might be from Winchester". There's a reason everyone else in the county calls it "incester". "If your family tree does not fork..." It's always a great sign when your grade school loses accreditation.
 

Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
Oh, and sorry if my way of calling things "garbage", general sense of humor, and being a general curmudgeon offends. I'm a New Englander, its' what we do. "Yah cahnt geht theyah frum heeyah" isn't a catchphrase, it's a wicked pissah way of life.