Wow, Nakto turned out to be junk, so what should I get?

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Here is a bike that can get wider tires. In fact, Super Moto-X are on the way for it. It holds 75lbs in the basket and 250 on the rack. Zoom in to see the battery in the frame's triangle. It is 750W with peaks at 1,000. I did the wires in white because I could.

You can do the same sort of idea with just about any good used bike, installing a 130 BCD Bafang with a throttle and you will come in on budget and you will have a better bike than the new junky hub-drives hub-dives sold online. I put a motor in the middle where it belongs so the gears are driven by the motor and weight is low and centered. Again, the crank arms and 130 BCD chainring arrive with the kit. Hills will not be a problem.
 

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Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
Here is a bike that can get wider tires.
The build quality of what you've shared always looks amazing. I'm a fan of stuff like white tires, tan tires, whitewalls. I'm half tempted regardless of what make/model I get to drop the extra $$$ come spring for a set of road whitewalls instead of the nubbies.

That said, a lot of what you say doesn't line up. I mean to put 4" tires on that you're looking at a new front fork since that looks like 100mm and fats take at least 130mm. I'm also pretty sure that back end won't take a 190mm hub + cart. Methinks we have a different definition of "wider" since what's on it right now? 26x2.25?


Again, the crank arms and 130 BCD chainring arrive with the kit.
Which universally seem to be junk I would immediately replace. But I say that about most all bikes and is why it seems mid-drive is right out for me. It being so non-standard sets my teeth on edge. It's kind of weird, I'm a crank snob. The crank going into the motor housing and then the output shaft to the crank makes sense from an engineering standpoint, but it's so inconsistent with existing parts supply... and running the motor to the cart seems bad enough given what unreliable s*it derailleurs are when you have control over the chain speed. Don't even want to think about a chain drop at the motor. Again, personal prejudice against the 'tech. I know it's semi-irrational, but the first twenty years of my life taught me the very idea is bad.

Though at least most such rides seem to come with SOLID cranks. My ex's step-through -- that is apparently mine now -- had a one-piece STAMPED steel crankset... as in the crank arms were hollow and just hammered around a form. I'd never seen that, never seen anything so flimsy, and hope NEVER to see such a thing on a bicycle again! Laugh is I ended up putting the ashtabula from my ride into it just to save a few pennies since it was a 1:1 mount.

Some advice: Don't buy no-name ladies bicycles off of E-Bay like my ex did. It's bad when they make Walmart look good. Goofy cranks, razor thin pedals, strange lacing pattern on the cheapest spokes I've ever seen, one-pass no primer paint instead of powder coat on the frame, reflectors that don't stay on because they're for a kids bike not a 26", seat where the spring on one side collapsed on the first ride because the nut fell off. (the one on the seat bolt the spring goes around, not my ex) About the only good thing on it is the shimano 3 speed internal (coaster), and I did that. As it is the spokes are so rusted I'll have to re-lace it if I were to sell it or give it to someone.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Okay. I tried my best to give the best advise given your needs. That cargo bike is getting 2.4 tires. Once you go over that than there are diminishing returns to further width and added downsides. But I do not live in snow country here in the SF North Bay. I can see 4in being helpful in the snow and thaw muck. Truly, hub-drives suck and there is nothing wrong with solid aluminum crank arms.
 

Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
And the s*it-show that is my life continues. The Aventon Aventure arrives... the chain looks 4 links too short with the deraileur in the lowest gear slammed so far forward it's pretty much a straight line, the rear brake doesn't respond barely moving the calipers at all with no visible signs of where to adjust that. In fact the part I'd expect to adjust that says "no adjustment, do not unscrew"

And after 5 hours on the charger it still doesn't have enough charge to turn the thing on, assuming it even turns on or is in fact charging.

Is this entire industry this big of a train wreck? Does ANYBODY make these things that actually... you know... WORK?!?

Though I LOVE this passive-aggressive "screw you" from them:

To better serve our customer in a more timely manner,
Aventon phone support will be suspended for the time being.
I should have just given up on the idea entirely.
 
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Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
Just risked it with only the front brake now that I got it to turn on... the front brake is only engaging at half strength (thankfully there's a nearby parking lot that's safe to test things at), the pedal assist takes a year and a half to engage. It just randomly powered off twice -- pretty much when I started going into deep turns -- and the overall feel of it is off since even with adjusting the derailleur (I don't like 'em, but I know how to work on them) the gears are utterly banjaxed... likely from the short chain since it seems to work better in higher gears.

The "fit" of the battery is so stiff it feels wrong almost like the cavity it goes into is too small for it (bent in shipping? that' down-tube is some thin-ass aluminum!), The buttons for the controls are too far from the hand to reach without letting go of the grip, Feels like I'm too far forward as if there's not enough rake on the fork...

My first Nakto may have died at the 20 mile mark, it's replacement may have died at the 30 mile mark, but in terms of mechanical quality they make this thing look like a rinky half-assed tinkertoy!
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
And the s*it-show that is my life continues. The Aventon Aventure arrives... the chain looks 4 links too short with the deraileur in the lowest gear slammed so far forward it's pretty much a straight line, the rear brake doesn't respond barely moving the calipers at all with no visible signs of where to adjust that. In fact the part I'd expect to adjust that says "no adjustment, do not unscrew"

And after 5 hours on the charger it still doesn't have enough charge to turn the thing on, assuming it even turns on or is in fact charging.

Is this entire industry this big of a train wreck? Does ANYBODY make these things that actually... you know... WORK?!?

Though I LOVE this passive-aggressive "screw you" from them:


I should have just given up on the idea entirely.
No, it's not all a train wreck, but you get what you pay for. We bought two Trek Allants this past spring, his and hers. Both have performed flawlessly, but we spent much more than you did. We spent more precisely to avoid the kind of hassles you're having.

The low cost online only vendors have many satisfied customers, of course, otherwise they'd be out of business. But when things go wrong, you're much more on your own. I bought two conventional, analog bikes last year online, because I knew exactly what I was getting (high end shimano components) and knew I could service everything myself. DIY is important since the nearest, not so great bike store is 30" away. E bikes are new for me, though, so I did NOT buy online. I got a brand with a good out of box track record and good support.
 

Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
No, it's not all a train wreck, but you get what you pay for.
Sorry but when we're pushing up to two grand, it STOPS being "you get what you paid for". THESE ARE BICYCLES! I shouldn't be paying more than a used pristine condition 1500CC Suzuki or Kawasaki!

Not helping I've got friends yelling "I can't believe you wasted so much money on a bicycle".
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Is this entire industry this big of a train wreck? Does ANYBODY make these things that actually... you know... WORK
You should have bought a quality e-bike.

These features do not belong to what I call a quality e-bike:
500 watts or more
26" x 4" Fat Tires
Throttle
Max budget of $1500.

What you have described (and the budget) will buy you exactly the same "e-bike" as you owned before only under a different "brand".
Sorry for being direct.
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Sorry but when we're pushing up to two grand, it STOPS being "you get what you paid for". THESE ARE BICYCLES! I shouldn't be paying more than a used pristine condition 1500CC Suzuki or Kawasaki!

Not helping I've got friends yelling "I can't believe you wasted so much money on a bicycle".
But ebikes are NOT bicycles! True, they have two wheels and many bicycle components. But put a motor on a chassis, and it becomes something different, something more.

Cost? If someone is only familiar with big box (walmart) bikes, then spending over 1k sure does seem like a lot. But quality new bikes are all near or above that price point. Add a motor and battery, you'd expect to spend less? And for those that aren't familiar with battery prices, just send them to Home Depot to look at lithium battery prices for power tools..,.
 

Jason Knight

Member
Region
USA
You should have bought a quality e-bike.

These features do not belong to what I call a quality e-bike:
500 watts or more
26" x 4" Fat Tires
Throttle
Max budget of $1500.

What you have described (and the budget) will buy you exactly the same "e-bike" as you owned before only under a different "brand".
Sorry for being direct.
Which is why I upped to a well reviewed $1900 bike. And now I'm being told to spend more? I start out at twice what I would normally spend for a bike, seller disappeared thankfully I had e-fence protection on that. I go to five times what I'd normally spend, they die. I go to ten times what I'd spend, and it's lower quality than the previous one?!? And now people tell me to spend more money? BULL-FREAKING-s*it!

That's the same type of scam Amway and Mary-Kay run! "But look at all our success stories, it's just you, if you just spend more at our next seminar"

I'm not dropping 2500-3000 on a BICYCLE. F*** that! It's a scam.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I realize you are just venting and it is frustrating to have deal with bad quality and defective merchandise. However, it is not a scam and you seem intelligent enough to know better. A cheap bike with bottom of the line components and no motor is going to run $200-$500. A good quality bike from a company like Surly with good components is going to run $1200 - $1500. Non-motorized carbon bicycles can costs thousands of dollars. Most of what you are paying for with the expensive carbon bikes are lighter weight components and frame. A motor kit if you were to build your own bike runs $200 - $1500 (check out the cost of Grins top of the line kits with all the bells and whistles). That is before you buy a battery. Cheap batteries are known to catch fire and it is a chemical fire that you can't put out by dumping a bucket of water on it. Good batteries from name brand manufactures cost $500 - $1000.
 

Cstefan

Member
Region
USA
Just risked it with only the front brake now that I got it to turn on... the front brake is only engaging at half strength (thankfully there's a nearby parking lot that's safe to test things at), the pedal assist takes a year and a half to engage. It just randomly powered off twice -- pretty much when I started going into deep turns -- and the overall feel of it is off since even with adjusting the derailleur (I don't like 'em, but I know how to work on them) the gears are utterly banjaxed... likely from the short chain since it seems to work better in higher gears.

The "fit" of the battery is so stiff it feels wrong almost like the cavity it goes into is too small for it (bent in shipping? that' down-tube is some thin-ass aluminum!), The buttons for the controls are too far from the hand to reach without letting go of the grip, Feels like I'm too far forward as if there's not enough rake on the fork...

My first Nakto may have died at the 20 mile mark, it's replacement may have died at the 30 mile mark, but in terms of mechanical quality they make this thing look like a rinky half-assed tinkertoy!
I can’t speak to the Aventon as I’m not familiar with the brand. However I did just order a $1500 Espin 21 Sport and so far my experience has been completely different.

The deraileur works just fine, though it needs a bit of fine adjustment.

The brakes worked fine out of the box.

The battery came 70% charged so I was able to take a test ride as soon as I got the bike put together.

Riding with pedal assist takes some getting used to, but there isn’t anything with the controller‘s start/stop behavior I strongly object to yet.

My bike has an adjustable stem so I was able to put the handlebars far enough back and high enough up to ride comfortably. That said I’ll likely replace the bars with some that rake further back like on a cruiser.

This is my first bike with a front suspension and I’ll have to say I’d just as soon skip the weight and complication if I had to do it again. On the other hand I haven’t really tried riding offroad or adjusting the pre-load on the fork yet.

In any case maybe you should buy an ebike through a dealer? This way you can test ride the bike, check how it fits you, and check mechanical quality and fit & finish before putting your money down. Also a local dealer is likely to do things like adjust the deraileur and brakes as well as charge the battery before letting the bike go out the door.

I’m not well versed in troubleshooting hydraulic brakes but it does sound like yours need to be bled.

Aventon does have a reputation for their pedal assist taking forever to engage. Check on the Aventon forum to see if you can override this with different controller settings.

I do think it is possible to get a decent ebike for > $2000, however your expectations need to be set appropriately.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Which is why I upped to a well reviewed $1900 bike. And now I'm being told to spend more? I start out at twice what I would normally spend for a bike, seller disappeared thankfully I had e-fence protection on that. I go to five times what I'd normally spend, they die. I go to ten times what I'd spend, and it's lower quality than the previous one?!? And now people tell me to spend more money? BULL-FREAKING-s*it!

That's the same type of scam Amway and Mary-Kay run! "But look at all our success stories, it's just you, if you just spend more at our next seminar"

I'm not dropping 2500-3000 on a BICYCLE. F*** that! It's a scam.
Jason,

Please listen carefully for a while:
  • My principal e-bike cost the equivalent of US$3900 (Specialized). I got it as a gift from Heaven with 30% discount in November 2019. I have ridden over 10,000 km on it with no issues. Moreover, Specialized upgraded the electronics to the latest version at no cost in 2020.
  • My everyday e-bike (Specialized Super Lightweight) cost US$4600.
  • My e-MTB (Giant) cost US$4600
  • My car cost US$2000. It is a scrap, honestly.
My point is, you think 3000 dollar on a bicycle is a scam. Not. It is an e-bike, not the Chinese stamped scrap you've been riding. It means quality, servicing, warranty, and trouble free operation. If you cannot afford a quality e-bike, just buy a bike.

I know I wouldn't convince you. I simply state you have just wasted your good money.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
If you are thinking a bicycle is a kid's toy - which is the common perception in the US - then yeah $1500 is crazy money. But if you want something usable, reliable and long lasting, you are talking real money to get it. Thats just the way it is. Unless you get lucky somehow you are going to get what you paid for. If you believe its not worth that kind of money, you need to go find that Suzuki and ride that.

With that said, The company Lectric seems to have nothing but good reviews all over the web so far as I have seen. Not something I would ride, but maybe that will work for you. A thousand bucks. Thats cheap. They have a forum here check it out.

 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
@EMGX told you everything you needed to know to avoid problems and have a really good bike in budget, as the first person to respond to this thread. You did not listen to @EMXG so EMXG gave up. Me too.