Zen Shakti - $1990

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
Looking forward to hearing the EBR community's feedback. Please share whatever you think.
We are quite happy so far how it has turned out. Paul was instrumental in enabling the dual battery feature on this bike.
We will be testing this rig for the next 2 months before it goes into full-scale production.

We wanted to hit these main points and so far it looks good:
  1. Reliable torque sensor
  2. Powerful geared hub motor with Quick-release mechanism+ 28mph top speed + throttle capability
  3. Dual batteries for 100-mile range (second battery will cost extra)
  4. Air suspension for comfort and versatility
  5. Elegant looking frame
  6. 1500 lumen headlight and powerful hydraulic brakes for safety
  7. Schwalbe Supermoto-X tires for ride quality + Shimano Deore drive train for long service life
  8. $1990 retail cost
1608390447495.png
 
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J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I like it. Looks to have bosses for 2 water bottle cages and for a frame mounted (head tube) front cargo rack. Will these make it to the production bike? Looks to have a straight head tube, that limits choices for an upgraded suspension fork. Very good looking bike. Will it be offered in another color? Great price.
 

Asher

Well-Known Member
That looks like a terrific setup and value. Will there be multiple sizes? Rack and fenders are add ons at that price? Do both batteries go in the down tube? Are they proprietary? Why not use Schwalbe's newer Super Moto (vs the Moto X tires)

The specs posted earlier, FYI for others:

"48V hub motor with thru-axle with nominal power of over 600W and 1000W of peak power. Thru-axle makes wheel removal super easy just like a mid-drive.

48V, 14Ah fully integrated battery and with an option for dual battery ~(672 whr stock + 672 whr optional) total of 1340 Whr of energy"

My benchmark, as the bike to beat, is the Ride1Up LMTD and this compares very favorably - better drivetrain and motor, has lights, and it sounds like you've done more custom engineering and such.

Very exciting to see a compelling Class 3 commuter option at a reasonable price.

I will say though, I really do not like the color, it's a mucus green, nor do I think it is optimal. I owned a pedal bike that sold poorly when it was a florescent yellow, and then sold out next year when it was an olive color, Raleigh Redux.

Some good colors: silver, white, black, dark blue, medium blue, olive, british racing green, slate. But I would think more about the branding and the target demographic. Look at what Stromer, Riese and Muller do, but also brands in completely different industries do and the color palettes they use, especially brands you think your customers admire.

Looking at Stromer colors, some of them are a bit boring and overly minimalist, but their dark green, red, dark blue, electric blue, all look great.
 
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dblhelix

Well-Known Member
Looking forward to hearing the EBR community's feedback. Please share whatever you think.
We are quite happy so far how it has turned out. Paul was instrumental in enabling the dual battery feature on this bike.
We will be testing this rig for the next 2 months before it goes into full-scale production.

We wanted to hit these main points and so far it looks good:
  1. Reliable torque sensor
  2. Powerful geared hub motor with Quick-release mechanism+ 28mph top speed + throttle capability
  3. Dual batteries for 100-mile range (second battery will cost extra)
  4. Air suspension for comfort and versatility
  5. Elegant looking frame
  6. 1500 lumen headlight and powerful hydraulic brakes for safety
  7. Schwalbe Supermoto-X tires for ride quality + Shimano Deore drive train for long service life
  8. $1990 retail cost
View attachment 74551

Winner.

I see a lot of new bike/bike design announcements that are just iterations on what is already available, but this is a standout. At this price, there’s no excuse not to give a hub/throttle setup a try, and the dual-battery option distinguishes it from just about everything else out there with this configuration.

My only quibble is the Deore setup, which I have on my Tern Vektron, along with Deore brakes. Not a fan. I’m sure you’ve worked hard to get the base model sub-$2K, but knowing what I know now, I’d not have a problem putting in a bit more.
 

Taylor57

Well-Known Member
Looking forward to hearing the EBR community's feedback. Please share whatever you think.
We are quite happy so far how it has turned out. Paul was instrumental in enabling the dual battery feature on this bike.
We will be testing this rig for the next 2 months before it goes into full-scale production.

We wanted to hit these main points and so far it looks good:
  1. Reliable torque sensor
  2. Powerful geared hub motor with Quick-release mechanism+ 28mph top speed + throttle capability
  3. Dual batteries for 100-mile range (second battery will cost extra)
  4. Air suspension for comfort and versatility
  5. Elegant looking frame
  6. 1500 lumen headlight and powerful hydraulic brakes for safety
  7. Schwalbe Supermoto-X tires for ride quality + Shimano Deore drive train for long service life
  8. $1990 retail cost
View attachment 74551

Love the dual battery concept and the upgraded tires. Also the price seems fair. 2 questions: How much does it weigh and when do you expect to be able to ship?
 

Taylor57

Well-Known Member
The black part under the "ZEN", is that paint or a battery cover? If it's paint I'd rather have that area painted the same color as the rest of the bike's frame. Personally, I think it looks ugly the way it is.
I think that is one of 2 batteries no and if so, that's why black would be a great color for this bike...
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
First of all,
Many thanks for everyone's comments here. Sincerely appreciate it and I am certain it will make the product even better.
We thought long and hard about what kind of configuration would yield the most value to the end user and have a long service life. This is the setup we have so far and we will strive to improve it in the coming months.

I will respond to individual comments for more clarity and receive better feedback.
 

Quick514Biker

Active Member
Region
Canada
City
Montreal
For this level of e-bike, what about allowing the customization of the PAS levels by the user(like with Ride1Up bikes)? Would it be possible in final configuration when it's released?
 

Asher

Well-Known Member
The rear fender situation is a bit concerning, the fender coverage is limited and I can't tell if you can fit a bigger one on instead. Color matched alloy fenders would be a super nice touch, even as optional kit, though it may be difficult to supply.

A somewhat unrelated business opportunity: sell a simple smart charger that automatically charges batteries to a lower maximum charge, 80% or whatever the user designates. Would bring customers who already have ebikes, and may even consider your ebikes in the future. Though I guess ensuring compatibility with various brands could be challenging.
 
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Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
I like it. Looks to have bosses for 2 water bottle cages and for a frame mounted (head tube) front cargo rack. Will these make it to the production bike? Looks to have a straight head tube, that limits choices for an upgraded suspension fork. Very good looking bike. Will it be offered in another color? Great price.

Thank you very much.
Yes, we do have a bottle cage or a folding lock mount just below the top tube and a battery mount on the downtube which in principle, could be used as a water bottle holder as well.
The front rack mounts near the headtube are built for a heavy-duty rack but we are still debating how many ACTUALLY use the front rack on a daily basis. What do you think?
Will it muck up the aesthetics?
Out of the two prototypes built, one has a straight headtube and the other has a tapered headtube.

It will be offered in multiple sizes and colors. Based on the feedback provided here, we may pick a few colors among the following:
  • Matte black
  • Electric blue
  • Cherry red
  • White
  • Hi-viz yellow

Looks great Ravi and Paul!

You have always been helpful and supportive, Thanks Bob!
We should go riding soon.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
That looks like a terrific setup and value. Will there be multiple sizes? Rack and fenders are add ons at that price? Do both batteries go in the down tube? Are they proprietary? Why not use Schwalbe's newer Super Moto (vs the Moto X tires)

The specs posted earlier, FYI for others:

"48V hub motor with thru-axle with nominal power of over 600W and 1000W of peak power. Thru-axle makes wheel removal super easy just like a mid-drive.

48V, 14Ah fully integrated battery and with an option for dual battery ~(672 whr stock + 672 whr optional) total of 1340 Whr of energy"

My benchmark, as the bike to beat, is the Ride1Up LMTD and this compares very favorably - better drivetrain and motor, has lights, and it sounds like you've done more custom engineering and such.

Very exciting to see a compelling Class 3 commuter option at a reasonable price.

I will say though, I really do not like the color, it's a mucus green, nor do I think it is optimal. I owned a pedal bike that sold poorly when it was a florescent yellow, and then sold out next year when it was an olive color, Raleigh Redux.

Some good colors: silver, white, black, dark blue, medium blue, olive, british racing green, slate. But I would think more about the branding and the target demographic. Look at what Stromer, Riese and Muller do, but also brands in completely different industries do and the color palettes they use, especially brands you think your customers admire.

Looking at Stromer colors, some of them are a bit boring and overly minimalist, but their dark green, red, dark blue, electric blue, all look great.

Many thanks for your valuable feedback! I think we are going to implement some of your suggestions.
Getting the thru-axle hub motor design into the dropout took some effort but it will bring a lot of value to the end-user.

The battery form factor is not proprietary. Both batteries go in the triangle (one in the downtube and one on top of the downtube).
We have full confidence in the Supermoto-X, haven't tested the new Supermotos yet! But, after testing, if we find that the new one is better, we may switch.

You are absolutely right about the drive train. At this price point, there are extremely few bikes that come with a 10 speed Deore cassette + Shadow plus derailleur that has a clutch for chain retention.
Most bikes, including some of the ones you mentioned, come with an 8 speed Acera, which is 4 steps down the ladder.

1608498873323.png

1608498924347.png


The bike also comes with 4-piston Dorado brakes upfront and 2-piston rear.
We are experimenting with different combinations but for sure, it will have a E-bike specific brake set.

1610508084465.png


There is no rear fender in the picture.
We are still working out the details of the commuter package that will include a suspension seatpost, fenders, and lock, etc. People in states like CA, Texas, Arizona rarely use fender and some folks even take it off completely.
For sure, we will offer a high-quality fender set along with the suspension seatpost.

Thanks for those suggestions regarding the colors. We will look into it more closely and for sure pick more attractive colors.

One more thing, the bike comes with 30mm wide rims made by the sister company of Alexrims. Alexrims are used on brands like Raleigh, Riese and Muller, Stromer, etc.
 
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Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
Winner.

I see a lot of new bike/bike design announcements that are just iterations on what is already available, but this is a standout. At this price, there’s no excuse not to give a hub/throttle setup a try, and the dual-battery option distinguishes it from just about everything else out there with this configuration.

My only quibble is the Deore setup, which I have on my Tern Vektron, along with Deore brakes. Not a fan. I’m sure you’ve worked hard to get the base model sub-$2K, but knowing what I know now, I’d not have a problem putting in a bit more.

Many thanks for your input and encouragement. We also believe that dual battery configuration and the motor/component choices offer this model a unique advantage.
We thought about various options for the drivetrain.
If we try to offer an XT groupset, it would certainly increase the cost significantly and we believe Deore is a very decent configuration. I put about 3500+ miles when I owned the Haibike and I changed the cassette once.
With a mid-drive, the forces acting on the cassette are much higher, and in a hub-drive setup, it may last 3x longer i.e. 9000 miles. In the end, we chose to give Deore a try and believe that 10-speed Deore should offer a long service life.

Let's look at it this way:
Without comparing torque sensor, hydraulic brakes, air suspension, Class 3, battery features, etc. just the drive train component

RadCity: 7-speed freewheel (NOT a cassette) and retails for $1.5K.
Aventon Level: 8-speed cassette (Acera) and retails for $1.6K
Ride1up LTD: 8-speed cassette (Altus) and retails for $1.8K
Juiced CCX: 9-speed cassette (Altus) and retails for $2.5K
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
Love the dual battery concept and the upgraded tires. Also the price seems fair. 2 questions: How much does it weigh and when do you expect to be able to ship?

It weighs around 54lbs. I will confirm the exact weight for both medium and large frames soon.
The lead times for some of the parts are crazy right now. Shimano has a 300+ day lead time for certain parts. So, shipping may not happen until summer 2021.
This is the unfortunate reality, but it also provides us some time to refine it and make it bulletproof.