PIM Bicycles Archer Review

Power In Motion Archer Electric Bike Review
Pim Archer Profile Right
Pim Archer Cassette
Pim Archer Battery
Pim Archer Handlebars
Pim Archer Hud
Pim Archer Shifter
Pim Archer Brake Lever
Pim Archer Rear
Pim Archer Forks
Pim Archer Forks Angled 2
Pim Archer Forks Angled
Pim Archer Front Brake Close
Pim Archer Saddle
Pim Archer Profile Left Angled
Pim Archer Profile Left
Pim Archer Front Disc Brake
Pim Archer Hub Motor
Pim Archer Cassette Close
Pim Archer Tire Tread
Pim Archer Pedals
Power In Motion Archer Electric Bike Review
Pim Archer Profile Right
Pim Archer Cassette
Pim Archer Battery
Pim Archer Handlebars
Pim Archer Hud
Pim Archer Shifter
Pim Archer Brake Lever
Pim Archer Rear
Pim Archer Forks
Pim Archer Forks Angled 2
Pim Archer Forks Angled
Pim Archer Front Brake Close
Pim Archer Saddle
Pim Archer Profile Left Angled
Pim Archer Profile Left
Pim Archer Front Disc Brake
Pim Archer Hub Motor
Pim Archer Cassette Close
Pim Archer Tire Tread
Pim Archer Pedals

Summary

  • A stealthy electric bike with unique grip shifter design that doubles as a power selector for pedal assist, sturdy 750-watt gearless hub motor, 25 mph top speed, hydraulic disc brakes with motor inhibitors activate regenerative braking
  • Rigid 12 mm Rear axle with standard 15 mm front thru-axle provide strength and stiffness, Kevlar-reinforced tires reduce flats, the bike feels solid but still responsive which is important given the higher top speeds and heavier weight
  • Magura TS6 100 mm air suspension fork pairs nicely with the custom plus-sized 3" high-volume tires to smooth out the ride and provide stability, ergonomic grips add comfort, the cockpit is extremely clean and organized
  • No bottle cage mounts, the kickstand is mid-mounted and blocks the left pedal when deployed, no integrated lights or fenders, you basically have to shift gears in order to go faster so your cadence is more limited, back pedaling and brake levers activate regen which is neat

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Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

PIM (Power In Motion)

Model:

Archer

Price:

$1,795 ($150 Flat Rate Shipping in Contiguous US)

Body Position:

Forward

Suggested Use:

Trail, Urban

Electric Bike Class:

Speed Pedalec (Class 3)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

1 Year Comprehensive, Lifetime for Frame

Availability:

United States

Model Year:

20172018

Bicycle Details

Total Weight:

57 lbs (25.85 kg)

Battery Weight:

8 lbs (3.62 kg)

Motor Weight:

10 lbs (4.53 kg)

Frame Material:

6061 Aluminum Alloy

Frame Sizes:

18 in (45.72 cm)

Geometry Measurements:

High-Step Measurements: 18" Seat Tube Length, 25.6" Reach, 30.5” Stand Over Height, 30” Width, 74.35” Length

Frame Types:

High-Step, Step-Thru

Frame Colors:

Red with White Accents, Black with White Accents

Frame Fork Details:

Magura TS6E Air Suspension, 100 mm Travel, Compression Clicker with Lockout, Rebound Adjust, 100 mm Hub Spacing, 15 mm Thru-Axle with Quick Release

Frame Rear Details:

142 mm Hub Spacing, 12 mm Threaded Axle

Attachment Points:

Rear Rack Bosses

Gearing Details:

8 Speed 1x8 Gripshift with Scram X7 Derailleur, 11-34T Cassette

Shifter Details:

Gripshift on Right (Controls Gearing and Motor Power Level)

Cranks:

SRAM Ruktion Crank Arms, 6061 Aluminum Alloy, 165 mm Length, 42T Chainring, Splined

Pedals:

Wellgo Aluminum Platform with Raised Teeth

Headset:

Threadless, Internal Cups, Tapered 1-1/8" to 1-1/2"

Stem:

Aluminum Alloy, 0° Rise, 31.8 mm Clamp Diameter

Handlebar:

Kore Durox Comp, Aluminum Alloy, Low-Rise, 760 mm Length

Brake Details:

Magura MTE Hydraulic Disc with 180 mm Rotors, Dual Piston Calipers, Levers with Tool-Adjust Reach, Motor Inhibitor for Regen Activation on Right and Left

Grips:

Ergonomic Rubber, Locking

Saddle:

Kore (need help finding the exact model)

Seat Post:

Aluminum Alloy

Seat Post Length:

350 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

30.9 mm

Rims:

Kore, Alloy, Double Wall, 32 Hole

Spokes:

Stainless Steel, 12 Gauge, Black

Tire Brand:

Kenda Custom Made Fo, 27.5" x 2.1"

Wheel Sizes:

27.5 in (69.85cm)

Tire Details:

40 to 65 PSI, Micro Surface, Kevlar Belt, Second Layer Kevlar, Wire Bead

Tube Details:

Schrader Valve

Accessories:

Optional Topeak Rack (Preinstalled for $50), Optional Topeak EX Slide-On Trunk Bag ($70), Optional Topeak DX Slide-On Bag with Panniers ($100)

Other:

Locking Removable Downtube-Integrated Battery Pack, 2 lb 4 Amp Battery Charger, 12 Volt Car Charger

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

PIM (they say it

Motor Type:

Rear-Mounted Gearless Direct Drive Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

750 watts

Motor Peak Output:

1100 watts

Motor Torque:

51 Newton meters

Battery Brand:

Samsung

Battery Voltage:

48 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

8 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

384 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

4 hours

Estimated Min Range:

20 miles (32 km)

Estimated Max Range:

30 miles (48 km)

Display Type:

Proprietary, Fixed, Backlit, Monochrome, LCD

Readouts:

Assist Level (-2 to 3), Current Speed (mph / kph), Battery Level (5 Bars), Odometer, Trip Timer

Display Accessories:

Independent Button Pad (Up and Down Arrows for Navigation and Power On/Off Button)

Drive Mode:

Cadence Sensing Pedal Assist (Pulley Wheel Guide, 12 Magnet Sensor)

Top Speed:

25 mph (40 kph) (20 mph Throttle Only)

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Written Review

PIM (Power in Motion) offers a range of unique, higher-quality electric bike models for 2017/2018 season with two prominent frame styles – high step and step through – and many shared components throughout the lineup. PIM’s newest iteration, the Archer, builds upon their previous iterations and this model looks like a rugged urban electric bicycle that could handle some rough city streets and even some casual off-road dirt and gravel trails. It offers a 750-watt gearless, direct-drive hub motor with 51 Newton meters of torque that can propel the Archer up to a maximum pedal-assist speed of 25 mph for an estimated 20 to 30 miles per charge. Regenerative braking can potentially increase the range of the Archer and there are three interesting ways it can be activated. First, if the bike is in a negative pedal-assist setting, the regen braking will automatically activate when going downhill. I tested this function during the ride portion of this review and it seemed to work pretty well, keeping the bike at a constant speed even when traveling down a slight decline. Second, the regen braking can be activated by back pedaling. This also appeared to work well, was similar to the FlyKly or Superpedestrian Copenhagen Wheel, and slowly brought the bike to a stop on flat ground. Third, the regen braking can be activated more traditionally by a light press on either of the adjustable-reach Magura brake levers. The brake levers are hinged and when pressed lightly there’s an audible and tactile click to signal the regen braking has been activated. There’s also a motor inhibitor wired into the brakes, which means any brake activation (regen or hydraulic disc brakes) will cut power to the motor. This is a great feature as it ensures the rider won’t be fighting against the power of the motor while trying to brake and it ensures maximum braking potential and minimum wear on the motor itself. Pedal assist is super responsive on this ebike so those brake lever motor inhibitors really come in handy for simple control, even at low speeds. The Archer’s frame and handlebars are made from 6061 aluminum alloy, giving the bike a pretty hefty curb weight of 57 lbs, but even though the hub motor is in the back, the bike felt more balanced than I expected, probably because of the 8 lb battery integrated into the downtube. And speaking of the battery, I liked that it completely disappears into the frame instead of jutting out above it like on some other electric bikes. Also, and while it’s a minor thing, I really liked that the battery had a hinged flap to cover the charging port. More often than not I find the rubber grommets on electric vehicles that are supposed to protect the charging ports come off while riding or are difficult to seat, but it looks like the hinged flap on the Archer will stay firmly in place. This should help keep water and debris out of the charging port. The only downside to the battery is there isn’t a USB charging port, which would be awesome to include in a future model for those riders who want to charge accessories while riding or by using the battery as a portable power bank. There’s also a bit more effort required to connect the battery when seating it into the frame because it uses a plug there vs. a seating interface. The good news is, the battery can be charged on or off the bike by using the same standard charger, without any dongle adapters.

There’s a handful of other features on the Archer that were new to me as well. I briefly mentioned the pedal-assist modes above, but I think it’s worth diving in a bit deeper into how those work. On the Archer, there’s five pedal assist modes: -2, -1, 1, 2 and 3. When in -2 and -1 mode, the motor doesn’t give much assistance when pedaling on flat terrain – a fact that makes makes the 57 lb curb weight painfully noticeable – but the motor does start to kick in when pedaling uphill. Additionally, the automatic regenerative braking activates when the bike starts picking up speed without pedaling. This is an interesting feature as I think using these negative pedal assist modes could increase the max range quite a bit, as well as give the rider a bit of a workout as well. But it’s not until I kicked it into the positive pedal-assist modes that I really felt the power of the 750-watt motor. The Gripshift gear shifter on the right side of the handlebars also helps select how much pedal assist you want. So it’s like, you’re changing gears and changing power level all with the same shifter mechanism. The Archer fed me more and more power as I switched up through the gears, which is exactly what it’s supposed to do… but it also slowed my cadence because the gears were changing, and that connection meant that I had to match the bike vs. pedaling at my own preferred cadence and selecting assist power separately. The Grip shifter feels kind of like a throttle in a way because every time you give it a twist, you unlock a little bit more power. When I hit fifth gear I really felt the pedal-assist and zipped across a grassy field without any problem. And the cadence sensor – which isn’t magnetic like most cadence sensors, but instead works by feeding the chain through a separate, small sprocket that connects to a circuit board – is incredibly responsive. The slightest pedaling motion activates the motor, although it felt like the motor remained on for a little longer than necessary after I stopped pedaling, which may have been a conscious design choice by the team to reduce the feeling of surge. This could make traveling at a low rate of speed somewhat difficult because you might still be getting situated and make a little pedal motion that will activate the bike right away, but honestly I feel like it’s worth it because of the extra sensitivity you get from the cadence sensor.

Comfort wise, the Archer felt nice. The ergonomic rubber grips were soft and the texture of the rubber felt good to my hands – like the material you find on Apple cords. The Kore seat was also comfortable. Braking was a breeze with the hydraulic 180 mm disc brakes and I was able to easily bring the bike to a stop with just one hand while filming! That being said, there was a slight grinding noise on harder stops, and I’m not exactly sure what was causing that. It could be the punched out design of the rotors, meant to reduce weight and improve cooling, that can make some noise when the brake pads vibrate across the surface. PIM worked with Kenda to create custom tires for the Archer, and these tires are kevlar reinforced – a feature I greatly appreciate as the area I ride is filled with nasty, little thorns that seem intent on puncturing my tires. Seriously, I get flats on almost every other ride. Rather than using a more traditional 2.25″ diameter on the tires, PIM opted for 3.0″ which is a plus size which provides more air volume for comfort and stability. This adds weight, but that is managed well by the sturdy extra thick axles with 12 mm at the back and a 15 mm thru-axle up front. I wasn’t able to really put these tires to the test, but I still think it’s an interesting point to note. The Magura TS6 suspension on the Archer worked well, even for a 200 lb rider like me. I didn’t feel much dive when braking, but if I had the suspension can be sagged by increasing or decreasing the air pressure or locked out completely with the compression dial on top. The regen braking also functioned as advertised, bringing me to a slow stop when activated either through the brake levers, backpedaling or by going downhill in a negative pedal-assist mode.

Priced at $1795, the Archer feels like a good mid-range bike with some above-average features like sealed bottom bracket crank and headset bearings – which should help keep water and debris out and increase the overall longevity of the bike – a motor inhibitor, kevlar reinforced tires, a super accurate cadence sensor, a Gripshift that also acts a bit like a throttle, and a fully-integrated, streamlined battery to name a few. Big thanks to PIM for partnering with me on this review and to Ben for driving all the way out to California to come hang out with me and show me the Archer. I tried to be independent and share my complaints or concerns when looking at the bike with him but appreciate the help he offered in taking the battery off and also explaining the cadence sensor technology. I love that the chainring has a guard on the outside to protect your pants and keep the chain on track and that the cadence sensing pulley wheel doubles as a guide so there’s less slap and fewer chain drops in general. Also, the rear portion of the bike is setup with rack bosses so you you could outfit this thing for commuting or probably put a fender on to keep your back clean. Some things it did not have were bottle cage bosses, integrated lights, or a USB charging port for use with portable electronics like lights. The display itself is backlit and looks nice but not removable, so it could take some wear in rainy or harsh conditions but I usually leave my helmet over top to keep it protected, so there are some options.

In closing, I have a few things to add and clarify. It’s neat that PIM motor sensor can actually tell that you’re climbing or going down a hill. Their -1 and -2 mode are very unique in the world of electric bicycles, in that they do not constantly regenerate the way that some of the BionX motors do (for exercise or to simulate hills) they just focus on terrain and add power when necessary or strive to slow you down when descending. In practice, I’m not sure how much I would use these because the bike is still heavy on flats and it’s great to have real assist there vs. very minimal support. Considering that this bike comes with a four amp charger and a 12 volt car charger, that shipping is just $150 in the contiguous USA and that PIM is opening a flagship store in Ballard Washington at 4013 Leary Way, NW Seattle, Washington 98107 in mid-December 2017 (so you can actually test ride their products and buy in person if you live nearby) makes the sub-$2k price point seem pretty reasonable. Especially for such a custom frame and nicer hydraulic disc brakes and motor/controller designs. I look forward to reviewing some of the other PIM products that start at just $1,495, including a fat e-bike, to see how they perform in more varied terrain.

Pros:

  • The Archer has a motor inhibitor which cuts power to the 750-watt hub motor whenever the regen brakes or hydraulic disc brakes are activated, a great feature that should prevent unnecessary wear on the brakes and motor
  • Regen braking can be activated by a light press on the adjustable-reach brake lever, back pedaling or by riding downhill while in a negative pedal-assist mode and can be used to slowly bring the bike to a stop while also feeding some extra juice back into the battery, this can also help increase the lifespan of the brake pads themselves if used in lieu of the disc brakes
  • Gripshift gear shifter also acts as a sort of throttle, giving the rider increased control over how much pedal assist they want from the motor, it’s also a cool feature that reminds me of riding traditional dirt bikes
  • 180 mm hydraulic disc brakes in the front and rear provide ample stopping power
  • Magura MTS suspension is adjustable to accommodate a variety of ride styles and riders of various weights
  • While the curb weight of the Archer is relatively heavy at 57 lbs, the bike is relatively well balanced thanks to the hub motor in the rear and the 8 lb battery in the downtube
  • Sealed crank and stem bearings should help keep water and debris out and prevent rusting, a nice little upgrade that isn’t necessary but can increase the overall lifespan of the bike
  • The unique cadence sensor setup makes the pedal assist extremely accurate and allows it to activate with the slightest bit of pedaling, making it feel a bit like a torque sensor
  • The fully integrated battery disappears into the downtube making for a lower profile electric bike and, in my opinion, more aesthetically pleasing than battery packs that jut out above the frame, I also appreciate the hinged cover on the charging port that stays perfectly in place until you physically move it out of the way to charge, it’s also easily removable with just a simple twist of a key and by pulling off the connecting cable inside the frame
  • The 750-watt motor with 51 Newton meters of torque felt powerful and while I was only able to take it through some grass and some slight inclines, I believe it would perform well on steeper hills and even on some casual trails
  • The suspension and apparent rigidity of the frame means the Archer can likely tackle even the roughest city streets and probably even some dirt and gravel trails
  • Kevlar-reinforced tires should help reduce the likelihood of punctures, a feature I especially appreciate because of the many thorns in my area
  • 25 mph top pedal-assist speed is good for those who want a bit more speed out of their electric bikes, and with the 750-watt motor this top speed should be reachable for most riders
  • The display center is easy to operate and has a backlit LCD screen so it can be used in low light conditions as well as daytime
  • The various pedal-assist modes offer a pretty unique riding experience as far as electric bikes go, with negative pedal-assist modes it feels more like a traditional bike until you get to hills, while the positive pedal-assist modes feel more like a traditional electric bike where the motor activates whenever you pedal
  • A $1795 price tag makes the Archer relatively affordable and I think with the many features it has it makes it a good value purchase
  • Power in Motion is opening a flagship store in Ballard Washington so you can go and see their products in person and take test rides if you live nearby, otherwise they are a direct to consumer online brand to keep costs lower

Cons:

  • A curb weight of 57 lbs isn’t the lightest, and pedaling the Archer on a negative pedal assist setting or with the bike powered off is, naturally, more difficult than pedaling a traditional bike or even a lighter electric bike
  • There’s no integrated lights, and no apparent way to hardwire aftermarket lights into the electrical system, so for those who want aftermarket lights to ride at night or just for increased visibility during the day, the only option is an entirely self-contained unit
  • The control center is nice and does offer some of the more pertinent information like current speed and trip timer, but there’s no tripometer or cadence measurement, and there’s no way to change the configuration of the display
  • The cadence sensor itself is extremely accurate and activates with the slightest pedaling motion, but because it’s still a cadence sensor the power comes on at full force and it takes at least a half-second, sometimes a full second, for the power to shut off after I stopped pedaling, which can make riding at slow speeds somewhat jerky and difficult
  • The battery doesn’t have a USB port to charge accessories while riding or while the battery pack is separate from the bike
  • The model I tested had a slight grinding noise during harder braking and even if that doesn’t causing mechanical wear, the noise is loud enough to be a bit aggravating
  • PIM only ships to the United States
  • Doesn’t have bottle cage bosses but at least there are threaded eyelets for a rear rack if you need to carry some gear if you want
  • It takes a bit more screwing around to get the battery off of the bike because of the power cord inside the frame, this pack doesn’t interface directly but plugs in with a dongle
  • It appears that this ebike is only sold direct online vs. through shops, so that means you might not get to try it out and you might have some extra trash and assembly work before it’s ready to go if you do buy it
  • I personally like that the Gripshift acts as a sort of throttle, but there doesn’t appear to be a way to turn that off, so those riders looking for more of a traditional electric bike setup are forced to stick with this layout

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ken
3 weeks ago

I’ve been riding a PIM eBike for about 5 months now (commute over 25 miles a day 3-4 times a week so a bit over 1000 miles already on the bike) and I’m still impressed with the quality and performance. I have the mid-step frame that looks very motorcycle-like in my opinion – subjectively I like this style because I want a burly urban commute bike that didn’t try to pretend to look like a traditional bike. I quickly installed a set of Schwalbe Moto X 27.5 x 2.4 tires which make fast street riding an amazing experience – plenty of grip and the extra air volume provides a nice ride quality without adding too much rolling resistance when at a reasonably high tire pressure.

The geometry of the PIM frame excels for urban commuting because we all know that the biking infrastructure is still lagging what they have in Europe so you need a bike that is comfortable going over curbs and zigging thru mis-aligned cross walks as well as just riding on the street when possible. I understand the benefits of mid drive motors on mountain ebikes – having unsprung weight in the rear wheel on full suspension or hard-tail eBike is not good so moving that weight to the center of the bike is a plus and this allows the motor to take advantage of the drive train when climbing. But this advantage is quickly lost when riding at speeds over 20mph because most of the torque of a mid drive motor is lost at higher gear ratios and the rear hub motor’s torque is directly applied at the rear wheel. I have a Haibike with a Yamaha PW mid-drive motor and I enjoy that bike as well but for urban commuting the PIM shines a bit brighter. Can’t wait to see faster models I here may be coming Spring 2018.

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Court Rye
3 weeks ago

Cool! Thanks for sharing your experience with the PIM ebikes and the perspective about how it compares at speed to the Yamaha PW mid-motor. Great post Ken!

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Ken
3 weeks ago

Thanks Court. You website was very influential in me buying a couple ebikes. I learned that the Polaris Diesel I purchased (a somewhat limited edition) was made in cooperation with Power In Motion and your review of the Polaris Appex influenced that purchase. I liked the appearance a lot – not that I don’t like traditional bike designs but the PIM/Polaris frame was just so unique (I grew up riding off-road motorcycles and then street motorcycles so I thought the cosmetics of the bike were impressive even though clearly not a traditional looking bike) and the powerful hub motor was also something I wanted.

Your comments on the motor continuing to provide some assist after you stop pedaling is very accurate but when you commute on the bikes as I’m doing you get use to quickly and it actually become an asset (like taking a quick breather or coasting up to a stop light). If trail riding I think the rider would just have to remember to use the brakes effectively to cut that assist off immediately when necessary.

I really like the Haibike Trekking SDuro model I bought as well (the Yamaha motor also reminded me of my dirt cycle riding days). One thing I’d like to read more about is what is the real world efficiency of hub motor to mid drive motors. With the hub always providing torque directly to the rear wheel I believe they may be more efficient overall vs a mid drive that is far more efficient using the lower gears of the bike’s drive train but at higher speeds the gear ratio actually negatively impacts torque transmission (for example if you on a 44T front chain ring and an 11T rear, 75% of the mid-drives torque is essentially loss due to the gear ratio). As hub motors are running faster the torque drops a bit (I don’t believe anywhere close to 75%) but it’s directly applied to the rear wheel and the higher speeds is also helping the motor run more efficiently. I’m just wondering if that’s why some of the high-end pedelecs like the Stromer continue to use hub motors.

Note: The Bosch mid drive may resolve a lot of the high speed dropping of torque by spinning a small front chain ring 2.5X the riders cadence but that is not fully discussed much on all the eBike websites I’ve been to. I think there system kind of levels the performance a bit – ie not quite the super strong climber the Yamaha drive system is, but at higher speeds the rider doesn’t have to work as hard because more of the motor torque is getting to the rear wheel.

Would be really cool if some with the technical back ground could actually shed light on the real world efficiencies of the drives systems (not just telling us that a mid drive motor spins faster internally so it’s more efficient than a hub drive (that is not an full drive system assessment).

Anyway, Keep up the great work and I’ll keep adding content to your site when I feel I have something +++ to add.

Anonymous
2 weeks ago

Court Rye replied to your comment on PIM Bicycles Archer Review:

Hi Ken! I created a video comparison on Bosch to Yamaha and Shimano which will go up soon. In my experience, most mid-drive motors beat hubs in terms of efficiency and optimizing the same capacity of a battery. The Bosch Performance Line motor does use a smaller chainring to act as a reduction gear but the other systems have internal gearing that do a similar thing. I don’t feel like it struggles to climb compared to Yamaha but I do feel that it offers a higher cadence range and is more responsive. I believe that Bosch will eventually move more of their motors to full chainring size like the new Active and Active+ models have done. The biggest benefit to hub motors that I have experienced is separation from the pedaling drivetrain which reduces stress and strain on the chain, cassette and derailleur. But again, running the system through your drivetrain creates that efficiency so it’s a trade off. I think gearless hub motors like the ones Stromer uses (and what Specialized used to use on their original Turbo) can be durable and quiet but the regenerative braking isn’t super efficient and the added rear weight becomes a burden when servicing the rear wheel or if you have a full suspension setup. I like hub motors but tend to go with geared lightweight designs for myself because I’m an active rider. They work well for throttle operation and tend to keep the price lower than mid-drives (at least for now) because they don’t require a special frame. I hope this helps to clarify :)

Hi Court, I copied your response from an site email into this thread. I hope that is OK.
You are primarily correct about the inherent efficiency of the mid drive motors themselves – the internal gear reduction allows them to run faster which is a more inherently efficient state for a brushless motor. But at higher speeds that extra torque and “inherent” advantage is loss in the gear ratio of the front to rear chain rings. Let’s say a mid drive is actually providing 60nM of torque at the crank axle but the front chain ring is 44T and the rear is 11T – 75% of that torque is essentially lost via the gear ratio. A rear hub is heavier and less efficient (especially at slow speeds) but at higher speeds that improves and the torque produced by the motor is directly applied to the the rear wheel (if it’s producing just 20nM that is still more power to the rear wheel that my example mid-drive at fast speeds.

I have not attempted to assess the actual efficiencies of mid drives vs hub drives but my guess is that somewhere between 12 – 20mph the “efficientcy” (this is both a motor status as much as it is a complete system performance issue) advantage shifts to hub motors. I believe an actually real world evaluation of this is possible with the right equipment. I’m certainly interested in getting past the marketing to know what is the best solution for hill climbing ability (clearly a mid-drive strength)
as well as speed pedelec purpose built bike (interesting that Grace choose a hub motor for their fastest eBike called the Grace One that you reveiewed). Cost was not a big worry on that bike and they went with a hub motor – kind of tells me that at the speeds they expect that bike to spend a significant % of it time going the hub drive is the better option.

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Thomas Jaszewski
1 week ago

Built by my Local Shop, a hig( end road bike builder. Alex rim. New never used. Will sell for well under cost.
USA only. Highly rated seller.

bronson
4 weeks ago

I have been riding a PIM Electric Bicycles since July of 2017. Loved it and the service so my wife now rides one also. I ride the Archer model and she is using the Zane ST. She is only 5'2 so the step through works great. She commutes on the sunny days, I am more of a die hard all weather rider. I had some planet bike EZ fenders installed with a Topeak rack. We both got the 380wh battery as now comes standard. The Price point is right, PIM switched to a manufacture direct model last summer. The entry level bike, which is still fairly well equipped sells for $1495. I paid $1795 for www.pimbicycles.com the Archer and we got the Zane ST for $1695. Both our bikes came with the Magura hydraulic disc brakes. The first post here looks like my bike but upgraded bars, etc. My battery gets me a 24 miles in the Seattle area with some hills. I do pedal and give the bike assist, change the power levels for a little more exercise on my way home. I am good with the 380wh battery but will probably pick up a 500wh for my wife when they come out. Their replacement 380wh battery runs $499. I picked another battery up for back up.

1/1
indianajo
1 month ago

Sorry about the cancer. Enjoy yourself while you heal or plan.
Body size, leg legnth, back length, arm length, weight matter. Proposed posture matters, forward for efficiency, straight up for comfort. There are bike frame sizing programs on line, use one to pick a frame size, and rise. Some frames come only in one size, that size may not fit you. Top speed matters, length of trips between charges, roughness of pavement or softness of beach sand determine your desired wheel and tire size. Maximum grade matters, mine is 15%, pretty radical. I draw 750 W on the display up those if I start too slow, but 400 W if I hit 15% at >5 mph. Type of mount on the motorhome matters. There are ramp up devices, there are cable lifts from the ladder, there is lift it yourself. Choose now.
For example, I'm 67, needed a e-ride home 30 miles from summer camp if injured (no phone, no car). Plus occasional festival rides of 80 miles round trip without charge. I'm miniature, with short legs, so I was able to take a ninety's kid's 10 speed cruiser and convert it with a powr wheel for $600 (for the 80 mile range battery). 26"x1.9" tires are fine on our roads. Bigger people have to pony up for a bigger frame which will not be at the charity resale shop. Higher speeds than my typical 10 mph indicate suspension built into the frame. My frame is rigid. Snow or sand indicates big tires, 3 or 4". Ultra smooth pavement allows tiny wheels, 16"x 1.5". I wanted pedal assist plus throttle only, since if injured (pulled muscle or tendon) I don't want to pedal. On festival excursions, I can extend range by pedalling. Whatever NYC/California are requiring don't matter to me. If I break a leg the police tell me my $8/mo cell phone will call an ambulance, otherwise Verison service is $70 a month. Park riding in CA or MA or other "civilized" states may dictate no throttle. Stealth batteries and no visible motor may cut number of encounters with park rangers.
Nuvinci 380 is reported to have trouble with higher power motors, it was designed in the leg powered era. Some oil leaks reported under maintenance. I like the idea of 380; the detent shifting of Shimano 7 speed derailleur has given me a big cyst above my thumb tendon. I tried Sturmey-Archer S80 IGH, it has a reliability problem with the shifter cable mount. But the twist grip SA shifter is making my cyst go down. Nivinci is twist grip shifting.
Have fun shopping.

indianajo
1 month ago

Hello,
I ride on the 2014 Haibike FS RS. I bought it new and have done about 200 miles off-road and about 500 overall on the bike.
Yesterday I came back from a ride in a mtb centre and when packing the bike into the car, the cassette and the rear derailleur came off. The freehub is still attached to the cassette and after closer inspection the thread inside the bit that attaches derailleur to the frame has sheared off.
As the bike was build on standard mtb parts, shall I replace them with the same or go for the dedicated ones? So far i only found the sram ex1 so would it work with the shimano shifter? Also, shall I invest in the new rear hub or try to repair the broken one? I can post some pictures if needed.

On the side note, i understand that things brake, but the bike was not cheap and was well spec so what is to blame? Maintenance, not dedicated emtb parts, my 95kg weight, type of ride?

Thanks in advance.
If this is the 7 speed shimano rear cluster, abandon it and move on. I have had trouble with the seven speed inner race coming unscrewed, dropping balls and leaving me walking pushing the bike at some random location. Stupid design IMHO. I've also had shimano 6 speed derailleur takeups fracture in the frame between the wheels, and the 5/16" shaft in the 6 speed hub fracture. I was ~ 200 lb when I broke the shaft. Shimano 6/7 speed part is IMHO made in *****, and quality of ****ese "steel" depends on how much lead or copper scrap they put in the melt that day. Even steel in bar stock from ***** of a defined alloy from the steel supply has this variable quality, a car leaf spring maker tells me. We're not allowed to buy American steel anymore, except maybe in oil drilling pipes.
Shimano 11 speed hubs are highly respected by the guys on roadbike review, so maybe those are actually *****ese steel. The main problem with them, constant fiddling with the shifter, and the chains wear out in 1000 miles even pedalling with feet.
I've no bad experience with suntour yet, although the shifters I have are primitive compared to the shimano. Suntour is made in ******, a country from which I've gotten acceptable tools made of steel also. Another brand owned by suntour is sturmey-archer. I'm fiddling with the sturmey-archer S80 internal gear hub on my MTB. Unfortunately the shifter control ring has a slot for the pin, instead of a hole, and at 400 miles my shifter pin decided to start popping out every 2nd stop sign. I'm experimenting with a modification before scrapping it. Can't be welded, the ring is plastic.
SRAM I have no experience with, although the guys on roadbike review have nice things to say about the 11 speed hub. Again, those skinny 11 speed chains are expected to wear out in 1000 manual miles, and I'm sure even less miles on an e-bike. As least the price point is higher than the shimano 7 speed. Maybe they are made in ******.
As to whether the shifter will be compatible with anything else, that is a dice game. The shimano 7 speed index shifter put a 10 cm dia 1 cm thick cyst above my thumb tendon, with attendent arthritis, so I bought the Sturmey Archer S80 for the twist grip shifter as much as anything. While I'm back on the 7 speed shimano rear cluster, I'm still shifting with the Sturmey Archer S80 shifter, which gets me 2nd, 3rd, and 5 th speeds reliably and pain free before the force gets too high. That with the front 3 speed sprockets gets me around pain free, except on the 15% grade out near my summer camp. There is a detentless twist shifter sold separately for the nuvinci n360 n380, I'm thinking of buying one of those. I won't be buying any 11 speed clusters; making less than one summer on a chain is unacceptable reliability to me.
Warning, when you change hubs, the spoke lengths are probably going to be different. While there are spoke calculators on the internet, the sizes they come up with are approximate. I ended up buying three different lengths of spokes before it was right. When the calculator asks for the number of crosses, it means the number of crosses one spoke makes, not the number on the wheel. Second tip, if you buy spokes from niagara website you get 100 swiss champion (US made) ones for about $50. Same shop sells forty of the w brand ones on amazon for about $25 free freight. You need 36 typically. W brand ones are ****ese, but I haven't broken one yet. You can go to the local shop, but mine charges $40 to "lace a wheel" plus $2 a spoke, or $112. Three sets of spokes was cheaper than that, and the first set I sent back for only $14 freight round trip. Get the 16 mm or 20mm spoke nipples in any box you have shipped (like with the hub or gear cluster), they are more forgiving of wrong length than the 12 mm ones that come with the spokes.

Sonoboy
1 month ago

Sonoboy,
The pulley system sounds like a great idea. I use one to hoist bikes up between my garage trusses. Be sure to incorporate a cam cleat or 2, like this one. So much easier than tying off the rope(s).

But, I like to justify a basement full of toys, er tools. So;
A while back I bought a Park wall mount repair stand to mount on a home made base and upright. The socket was slightly warped in the area of the welded square tube. It fit the 100-3D clamp that came with it OK but not my Extreme range clamp tot vintage linkage clamp. Called Park and had a replacement the next day. Not one to let a freebie go to waste, I spent 20 minutes with a die grinder and salvaged the original socket. I machined a slug to fit into the socket on the stand and welded it to a heavy piece of 1"x 2"steel tubing. (25.4mm x 50.8mm for those of you who live in more rational lands.) 15" away I bolted on the salvaged socket and welded on a long lever going the other way. Then I cloned the clamping hardware and added an adjustable counter weight.
To use, I move the Park clamp into the "remote" socket. This gives me a 30" range of heights. I can clamp onto the bike without lifting it.

Then use the lever to raise it to a comfortable working height. ('76 Raleigh Super Course MkII with a '67 Sturmey Archer S5 5 speed hub)

Or keep it low for working on cranks and BBs.

I originally came up with this idea for framebuilding, so that no matter how I oriented the frame, I could weld or braze at a comfortable height. The counterweight allows me to balance the weight of a frame, so I can set the clamping force very light. Then I can easily rise or lower the frame as needed, without adjusting the clamping hardware.

But now with a bad shoulder, it's nice for mounting bikes too. For an eBike I would set the swing at 8-10" instead of 15". With a fairly heavy unassisted bike, a lot of clamping force is needed at the center pivot when the bar is near horizontal.

I'm hoping to spin off my short crank business and concentrate on tools. I wonder if there would be demand for something like this.
Sweet! I like your solution so much I almost regret buying the Park stand. However I don't have access to a welder. You must have a great workshop, along with the knowledge to properly make use of it. Thanks for the reply!

Mark Stonich
1 month ago

Well now you've got my curiosity up. My bike is 72 pounds (still over 60 if I remove both battery packs). I've been considering adding a rope pulley system to the overhead to help hoist the bike. Does this differ from your solution? Thanks.
Sonoboy,
The pulley system sounds like a great idea. I use one to hoist bikes up between my garage trusses. Be sure to incorporate a cam cleat or 2, like this one. So much easier than tying off the rope(s).

But, I like to justify a basement full of toys, er tools. So;
A while back I bought a Park wall mount repair stand to mount on a home made base and upright. The socket was slightly warped in the area of the welded square tube. It fit the 100-3D clamp that came with it OK but not my Extreme range clamp tot vintage linkage clamp. Called Park and had a replacement the next day. Not one to let a freebie go to waste, I spent 20 minutes with a die grinder and salvaged the original socket. I machined a slug to fit into the socket on the stand and welded it to a heavy piece of 1"x 2"steel tubing. (25.4mm x 50.8mm for those of you who live in more rational lands.) 15" away I bolted on the salvaged socket and welded on a long lever going the other way. Then I cloned the clamping hardware and added an adjustable counter weight.
To use, I move the Park clamp into the "remote" socket. This gives me a 30" range of heights. I can clamp onto the bike without lifting it.

Then use the lever to raise it to a comfortable working height. ('76 Raleigh Super Course MkII with a '67 Sturmey Archer S5 5 speed hub)

Or keep it low for working on cranks and BBs.

I originally came up with this idea for framebuilding, so that no matter how I oriented the frame, I could weld or braze at a comfortable height. The counterweight allows me to balance the weight of a frame, so I can set the clamping force very light. Then I can easily rise or lower the frame as needed, without adjusting the clamping hardware.

But now with a bad shoulder, it's nice for mounting bikes too. For an eBike I would set the swing at 8-10" instead of 15". With a fairly heavy unassisted bike, a lot of clamping force is needed at the center pivot when the bar is near horizontal.

I'm hoping to spin off my short crank business and concentrate on tools. I wonder if there would be demand for something like this.

indianajo
1 month ago

The 7 speed Shimano rear cluster, used on many bargain bikes and e-bikes, has left me thinking I was getting old and slow, then walking home. The inner race comes unscrewed, the cluster rubs on the shaft a while as balls drop out, then the last ball to drop makes it lock up: until you get off and push. The method of securing the inner race, a steel ferrule tightened against an outer nut, strikes me, as totally inadequate. Especially after a long walk home pushing the bike.
I've had the previously popular 6 speed shimano rear cluster, the axle shaft break in two. It had a 5/16" diameter threaded shaft, which has been corrected to 3/8" in the 7 speed.I weighed about 180 lb when I broke it, on the road, but was carrying groceries in a rear basket.
I don't know of any problems with an 8 speed SRAM. But the regulars on roadcyclereview.com won't hear of any other rear cluster but the shimano, sram, or campelli 11 speeds. Even though the chains last less than one summer even cranking one self.
By contrast, I rode a 5 speed shimano rear cog about 12 years, (15 speed mtn bike) and never wore out the chain. The 3rd speed cog lost the tips of it's teeth, instead, which caused skipping. Neither did I ever wear out a chain on the Sturmey Archer 3 speed I owned for 30 years. However three speeds were okay for flat Houston & Kansas, but not hilly Southern Indiana.
One advantage of eleven speeds, with 28 to 11 cogs to choose from, one doesn't radically need a shifting front sprocket, until the grades go over 10%. Which makes it compatible with mid-drive e-bikes, that delete the multiple front sprockets.
BTW I ride >2000 miles per year, and don't wear out 6-7 speed chains in 3 years. I've changed frames more often than that, due to stability problems , incompatibility of old frames with new components, and the broken axle mentioned above. 6-7 speed chains are thinner than 5 speed. Single speed chains IMHO never wear out: we used them in industrial baking for seasoning dispensers.

JackA
2 months ago

The company behind the Polaris e-Bike brand is continuing on in with its own brand; Power In Motion or PIM. The line of e-bikes is nearly the same with improvements in battery, BMS and motor control. Another significant difference is in the sales model. PIM is now using a customer direct sales plan and has reduced the price of their e-Bikes by about $1,000. The Benny (like the Polaris 503 Terrain) is now a $1,495 bike. You can even get a slight discount by contacting me on this forum.

I have ridden a Polaris Terrain for about two years and am now riding a PIM Archer. I have also put one of the new PIM 380 Wh Lithium batteries in my old Terrain with excellent result. The original battery is 264 Wh so the increase is about 40% and in my experience has added about 10 miles of actual range when riding off road in assist mode Negative 1, and 6~8 miles of range in Positive 1.

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vincent
3 months ago

Agree on archer bikes also

They made a point of telling me last year they will work on all my electric bikes and it did not matter where i bought them

These people want your business

Alphbetadog
3 months ago

Where are you located Sweetwater? If anywhere near Mesa AZ I highly recommend Archer Bikes. Despite not buying my Haibike from them, they graciously performed warranty work and a software update for me at a nominal charge. Very professional too!

indianajo
4 months ago

My 5 speed rear sprocket from 1986 is 29 to 14, same range as the 7 speed these days. I don't like the extra speeds either, down shifting with the index SIS has put a water bag over my thumb tendon. I can't find new 5 speed sprockets for sale, and the salvage one I picked up on garbage day is stuck on the rusty hub.
Be aware 5 speed sprockets clusters were .115" thick, 7 speed is about .090". So the old sprockets won't fit new grocery store chain. They are not specifying chain widths on the web suppliers, but I think you can still get the wider chain at industrial supplies.
I bought a Sturmey Archer S80 8 speed IGH, have just got it in a wheel. I'd of liked a 5 speed but they weren't in stock anywhere. At least the shifter is twist, not thumb downshift index. If you want one, ($185) it took 256 mm spokes to fit it in a 26" alloy wheel. The spoke calculator got 261 which didn't work. I had to use a coupla extra long nuts (16mm) so buy a bag in the same box or try 257 spokes. Different wheels may need different length of course.

indianajo
4 months ago

So much pessimism. So little DIY adventure.
The local bike shop sold me a Schwinn in 87 that dumped me on the road due to a insufficiently torqued stem. They are good at tires, period. The bikes they have in stock are way to big for me except the single speed ones, useless on the 8% hill a half mile from my house. One bike shop over in Kentucky also has stock only for enormous leggy European/African people.
In e-bikes the heavier the frame, the better, within limits. So that junk steel the metal man is hauling off in his pickup truck, that is IMHO what you want. Caveat, the trash bikes are sized for kids, 18" stem to stem max, and adults need longer frames than you find used. I have native AM bones with short legs/long torso, and will be converting a nineties girls 10 speed soon to geared hub electric. Five gears (suntour) are too high for me, perfect for e-assist.
Internet bike parts suppliers, so far I've used niagaracycle.com. They are good at their big parts, but complete idiots at measuring small nuts to make them match up to the description. They can't read a machinist scale and can't even ship the same nut size twice on the same order description a month apart. They refund promptly for the trash nuts they send you. They shipped a shifter rod for a sixties Sturmey-Archer 3 spd hub right, so if the identification is unique they can do it. They are in NY for us east of the Mississippi that don't like UPS rates from Oregon/Calif.
Jepson seems expensive, competitivecyclist seems mostly tuned to light weight racing parts. Modernbike.com may get my next order. They are in Iowa.
I'm seeing a lot of facts on here about lunacycle.com kits, and their prices seem good. Descriptions are almost complete. They are in CAlif. ebikes.ca in canada has even better descriptions and support, but cross border shipping inhibits me from trying them. Plus they are in Vancouver, further even than oregon. UPS charges for milage.
Don't forget Amazon. They are not sophisticated and the descriptions are brief and maddening, but for generic things like spokes, brake pads, derailleur takeups, they are cheap and their warehouse is 6 miles from me in Kentuckiana. I've used them four times.

indianajo
4 months ago

I'm age 67, 160 lb, ride a 27 mile route to the summer camp on a kid's mountain bike 2 to 4 times a week. I'm 68" with 28" inseam so the 18" frame length of a kid's bike is no problem.
I need a way back to town if I strain a muscle or tendon out there or get an infection cutting my wattage in third. Cell phone service out there would be $840 a year (Verizon only) and an electric bike conversion would be less expensive. I also want to pedal out to fall festivals ~50 miles away in the morning and motor home at dusk. I don't want to even ride in a car with airbags and hate motor scooter noise. I still have good high frequency hearing and enjoy music.
I don't want to pedal injured or sick, and I ride on state & county roads so pedal assist is not required. Indiana isn't licensing or regulating e-bikes yet.
I average 8 mph by sitting vertically with baskets full of groceries supplies & tire/mount tools, as low as 6 when the wind is >25 mph in my face. I ride 15% grades on the way out to camp but could take a longer route that gets grades down to 8% if on an E-bike. I want low drag when I pedal. 12 mph would be a great improvement over 8 on muscle power so 250-350 W would probably be fine. I won't be able to charge out at the festivals. My tire tools baskets water weigh 25 lb so a 11.6 AH battery wouldn't be a big strain, especially if mounted forwards of the seat.
My bikes have various diameters of crank hub so I'm suspicious of mid-drive kits with an extra driven crank. Kits assume the crank thread diameter is what? And how do you fit an extra sprocket on something with 3 already? I need 30:28 ratio to get up 15% without walking and 52:14 to fly down @ 35 mph.
My target bike is a 26"x1.75" 10 spd girl's cruiser from the 90's with flat handlebars, fenders, rim brakes, suntour shifters & sprockets. This has to be walked up 15% grades, I'll limit it to the 8% route. I have extra MTB frames but the 18 spd shimano SIS breaks axles and the 21 spd shimano SIS race comes unscrewed & drops balls. I'd like a made up 26" wheel if I can buy such a thing. The bike sits/rides in the rain sometimes so I'm a bit suspicious of LCD displays.
I've been lurking, tried to look up MAC & Bionx, the search engine finds MAC computers and suspicious vendors. ebikes.ca has a nice geared hub that would maybe work in the front but customs fees charges from CA are a PI** and freight from the west coast (Vancouver) is double what it is from Ohio or South Carolina. I could make torque rods out of aluminum window frame and I have some old heavy 26" forks from the sixties to handle excessive torque. Any suggestions?
Update 8/4/17
Okay, I found bionx.ca which is a stealth site. I'm partial to them because another thread said they were assembled in Canada, and I hate supporting bully *****, but they tell you almost nothing about their kits. You are supposed to go to your dealer. The nearest bionx dealer is in Springfield IL about 240 miles from here and not accessible by Greyhound. I'm supposed to drive my non-existent SUV there? Or ride my bike over?
People are posting about the luna mid crank drive kit sale, which I won't be buying because of unanswered questions about the five different varieties of cranks and sprockets. I don't want pedal assist. Want to hold my feet still if I pulled a tendon. But there is a lunacycle.com website, which has a geared drive 750W hub kit built into a 26" wheel for only $460. (geared good for hills right?) Optional sprocket clusters for rear drive, optional torque rod (yeah) batteries can come in the same box for $400 for 9 AH and $460 for 11.6. Optional thumb switch so the bike doesn't take off when throttle is twisted when bike falls over (which happens a lot with groceries on the back). More power than I need but I do need more description than amazon provides. Amazon has a 750W treesomething kit in a 26" wheel for $179 , no battery, probably direct drive (not for hills) and a lot of unanswered questions like which power connector.
Reason I want a wheel, I bought a 8 speed Sturmey Archer IGH, used the spoke calculator, bought spokes too short, RMA and mail back, spoked 10 mm longer are still too short, and I'm out $49 for a box of spokes because I took too long the second time. Vendor was no help when asked what length to buy for 26" wheel. I feel like I asked him about wagon wheels or something, it is not as if I don't see a dozen 26" wheel bikes on the street every day.
I'm here because bikeforums.net locks my computer browser everytime I access. Your site is responsive but the people don't want to read more than 20 words I suppose.

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flymeaway
6 months ago

should I convert rear cassette to an IGH ( Sturmey Archer 3spd )

I'm a big fan of IGH's. The only concern is to make certain the IGH can handle the additional torque. The Rohloff 500/14 can and I know some posters have used the Afine hubs so hopefully they'll comment on it's torque requirements.

I don't think the chain length will be an issue. If you find there is too much sag and you want to give some support you can add a chain guide at the Stokers bottom bracket, or the down tube between the two BB's.

It should be a relatively straight forward conversion. Keep posting, and if you need some help I will do my best to provide assistance.

Court J.

ReverseTrajectory
6 months ago

Hello - been reading a lot about mid-drive kits -to install on my 1990 Santana tandem that I bought used a few years ago. I use it to ride with my autistic daughter who does NOT pedal. As she is getting older and heavier and I am hitting mid-40s I want to think ahead with electric assistance so we can do longer rides without getting crushed by hills and riding back into strong winds - thinking I want to go with a BBSHD and a 52V 24ah Panasonic battery triangle that I will mount in triangle behind front seat post. This seems like more that enough power considering I am 200lbs with 125 but growing daughter + bike - we ride on trails or slower streets no off-road mountain slogging. Will probably add thudbuster seat post in stoker ( back ) and maybe front posts as bike does not have suspension. My issue is what to do with chain drive - I discussed this briefly with Court - he suggested that I switch Captain drive to Right hand side and run it clear back to the cassette in back - eliminating the stoker crank as it is not used - I know I would have to use some chain tension accessories - I looked on t-cycle.com at idler's etc. - but as shown on Court's tadpole project that long of chain run is not an issue- just need to nail down my parts list. My questions are - should I convert rear cassette to an IGH ( Sturmey Archer 3spd ) ? This would result in a straight chain run and I would probably only need 3 speeds with 1500w power supply .. correct ? + my gear cables run along bottom of frame where the BBSHD will reside so I would have to route those cables differently anyways ... worried that old cassette is not sufficiently strong to handle the torque of new BBSHD. Have original rim brakes too - do you recommend switching to a disk on back? if that is even possible ? Would I have to specify a stronger chain to handle the power of BBSHD ? Any advice you can offer would be great ! Also will update tires to schwalbe big ben 2.15's. Working on my ordering list. Thanks in advance. Chad

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Ann M.
7 months ago

Trikes are a great idea, @judyN; besides the recumbent style which might be difficult to get on & off; consider having a shop build you one with a front hub motor and rear battery. Standard trikes come with 20", 24" & 26" wheels, adjustable seat height and nice upright position. The hub motors are strong and you can get a higher wattage one to compensate for the extra weight of the trike. Many of these have programmable controllers so you can moderate how fast the trike accelerates and other features that control the throttle.

In addition, some brands of trikes can be outfitted with a Sturmey Archer 3 or 5 speed gear set at the cranks for more efficient power usage, particularly on hills. My shop's experience with balancing wheels is that they're really only a temporary solution and can be an issue when trying to turn. Anyway, I applaud your tenacity! Please keep looking and trying different bikes & trikes :)

Thomas Jaszewski
9 months ago

I have a mid-drive and am thinking of getting a strumey archer 3 speed internally geared hub. I will probably have my local bike shop build the wheel. Does anyone have a 3 speed IGH with a mid-drive? What are your experiences, ie. can you still get up 20% grade steep hills? Do you notice that you have a majorly reduced top-speed? Haven't bought anything or even talked to the LBS yet, just looking for ideas.
They are quite popular with BBSxx users. But 20% grade...thats really a steep grade for a road. look at the gear ratio needed now and compare with the IGH you want to use.

Asunder
9 months ago

I have a mid-drive and am thinking of getting a strumey archer 3 speed internally geared hub. I will probably have my local bike shop build the wheel. Does anyone have a 3 speed IGH with a mid-drive? What are your experiences, ie. can you still get up 20% grade steep hills? Do you notice that you have a majorly reduced top-speed? Haven't bought anything or even talked to the LBS yet, just looking for ideas.

bob armani
9 months ago

Podcast available in audio form on SoundCloud now: https://soundcloud.com/user-280486140/sets/electric-bike-podcast

Greetings fellow electric bike enthusiasts... myself (Court Rye), the owner of Propel Bikes in Brooklyn (Chris Nolte), the owners of the New Wheel in San Francisco (Brett Thurber and Karen Wiener) and a head mechanic from Blue Monkey Bicycles in Salt Lake City Utah (Mikey G) got to chat about cold weather gear and some best practices for batteries this week... among so many other things! We had a guest speaker, the CEO of Easy Motion, there to talk about two wheel drive electric bikes and battery insulators. Sorry this wasn't posted sooner to gather questions, I got a bunch from the YouTube comments and the last post. Hope you enjoy! There is also now a podcast sound-only resource on SoundCloud linked above.

The main topic for this podcast was cold weather tips and it started with a guest commentary with Steve Lindenau, the CEO of Easy Motion Electric bikes. His company is one of the only I’ve heard of that offers mainstream two wheel drive ebikes including the Evo Snow and Big Bud Pro. They deliver better traction and have an optional accessory Neoprene wrap that can be zipped on to keep the packs from getting cold so fast which impacts range and can also damage the cells (extreme cold and extreme heat). After a bit of chatting Mikey G from Blue Monkey Bicycle chimed in about Bar Mitts and neck warmers. Chris and Brett also joined in on the topic with scarfs and even full body suits. I was excited to see the full body bicycling suit and we got into safety with reflective clothing and lights. Some helmets now offer warm liners and Mikey had one from Bern which could be swapped out in the summer for a visor. He also suggested using rain pants for riding in the snow and rain, you can wear them over your jeans or other regular pants. Another great accessory is the tubular scarf which can be pulled up over your mouth and ears but take note your breath can fog up glasses. From here we transitioned to discussion on the Sondors Electric Car, the Organic Transit ELF Velomobile and wind farings for bikes. The subject of crotch strength on pants came up and that there are some pants that can be reinforced or are specially made for cycling. Later I talked about my trip from Arizona to SoCal and then we got into news. People for Bikes had their first Draft meetup event in San Francisco recently and has several more coming up throughout the year. You can meet others who enjoy bicycling. Haibike has moved their headquarters in the US to Denver Colorado and the governer John Hickenlooper has created the Colorado Pedals Project to expand infrastructure. There’s talk of a new TDCM mid drive motor with five speed internal gearing from Sturmey Archer and this week CBS is airing a 60 Minutes episode on mechanical doping in professional cycling, the Vivax assist from Gruber came up as one of the smaller less detectable ebike motors.

Other things we talked about:
- Chris's shop in Brookly New York, Propel Bikes: http://propelbikes.com/
- Brett and Karen's shop in San Francisco and Marin California, New Wheel: http://newwheel.net/
- Mikey’s shop in Salt Lake City Utah, Blue Monkey Bicycles: http://www.bluemonkeybicycles.com/
- 60 Minutes Mechanical Doping interview with Istvan Varjas: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cbs-60-minutes-investigates-mechanical-doping-in-professional-cycling/
- Tubular Scarfs (all sorts of companies make these): https://www.etsy.com/market/tubular_scarf
- Respro Pollution Mask: http://respro.com/pollution-masks and totobobo mask https://totobobo.com/
- Bicycle Farings from Zzipper http://www.zzipper.com/
- Organic Transit ELF: http://organictransit.com/
- One Piece Bikesuit http://www.bikesuit.eu/
- AB Fits clothing alterations in San Francisco: http://www.abfits.com/
- People for Bikes Draft Events: http://www.peopleforbikes.org/pages/draft and Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/DraftMeetup/
- Colorado Pedals Project: https://www.bicyclecolorado.org/initiatives/colorado-pedals-project/
- Accell E-Bike Motor with Integrated 5-Speed TDCM and Sturmey Archer: http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2017/1/accell-launches-e-bike-motor-with-integrated-5-speed-gear-hub-10128755
- Inventor of hidden motors UCI Tour de France: https://cyclingtips.com/2016/10/inventor-of-hidden-motors-accuses-uci-of-blocking-motor-tests-at-2016-tour-de-france/

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Court and participants~Excellent and awesome presentation. Love the doping coverage. Hope to see more podcasts to come! Thank you!

Alex Paulsen
2 weeks ago

That cable management makes me want to vomit. Not at all attractive. Keep that stuff for behind your computer, there's no good use for it on a production model bike.

William Stevens
2 weeks ago

Some of these bikes I really love but no fenders and no lights and no kick stand these are things I need of course integrated lights would be a major plus in my book

Jim Sharp
3 weeks ago

Excellent review. Be careful with your one hand driving.

Top 5 Popular
3 weeks ago

What is meant by pim. It mean we can't buy in nepal only in us,canada,europe.why do they don't

POWER IN MOTION PIM
6 days ago

PIM stands for "Power in Motion".  We are working on being able to ship worldwide.

Top 5 Popular
3 weeks ago

bring in nepal

Joey Love
3 weeks ago

Hey Brent i just wanted to say you are doing a great job and have been improving significantly. Excellent work.

boomer cash
3 weeks ago

I have 2500 miles on my PIM Bike.. Love it. awesome customer support. Review was fine. I have the Mid step Archer with Planet Bike fenders and a topeak rack.

POWER IN MOTION PIM
6 days ago

Thanks Boomer,  Glad you are enjoying your bike!

Jay Gurung
3 weeks ago

WoW really good bike for the price.

POWER IN MOTION PIM
6 days ago

Are batteries are 48v.  They come stock with a 48v 8ah 380wh battery.

Jay Gurung
6 days ago

Hi PIM,are you guys planning to release one with 48v battery?I don't think i can go back to 36V battery after using 48v. with 500watt motor.

POWER IN MOTION PIM
6 days ago

Thanks Jay,  Let us know if you have any questions

Sedona Hopkins
3 weeks ago

Nice bikes for the money!!

POWER IN MOTION PIM
6 days ago

Thanks Sedona Hopkins,  Let us know if you have any question on the bike.

Top 5 Popular
3 weeks ago

I want to buy eletric bike in nepal like this. can i get in nepal yes or not .if not then why can u tell me

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

I'm not sure what ebikes are available in Nepal but my experience has been that most are sold only in parts of Europe or the US and Canada. You could reach out directly to PIM and ask? This is their website: http://www.pimbicycles.com/

ForbinColossus
3 weeks ago

Suggested Option: A stick on letter 'P' for the name "PIM"

ForbinColossus
3 weeks ago

Actually, I meant on the downtube to follow PIM - P

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Cool, like on the head tube, a big P?

Fat Bike Freak
3 weeks ago

I think the price is a mistake. Does Magura even make a fork for less than a grand?

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Their prices are super low, it's pretty incredible actually... considering the higher end specs. Yes, I confirmed with the company, all of their models are under $2k and they even have a fat bike with hydraulic disc brakes for ~$1.6k

D Danilo
3 weeks ago

Excellent review, Brent! I'm glad you explored the regenerative braking further during the road test, it helped clear up some questions I had. Quite a lot of bike for the money!

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Thanks for your positive input! I'm happy that Brent can help and he's working hard to get more thorough and insightful with his reviews :)

Tim of free thought
3 weeks ago

Price is becoming "reasonable " . Don't like the battery connection or the wireing at the bars .Don't know why you need a display or variable assist .

POWER IN MOTION PIM
6 days ago

The display gives you different assist options that allow you to conserve battery if you want.  Also the display gives a battery meter as well as speedometer and odometer.

James Mason
3 weeks ago

I like this bike

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Yeah, for the price it's pretty fantastic, makes me want to test ride it sometime myself!

David Bradford
3 weeks ago

Nice bike for the money

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Agree, nice to see some quality components on a reasonably priced ebike ;)

POWER IN MOTION PIM
3 weeks ago

We have some great black Friday deals good though Monday!  Check out pimbicycles.com.

Josmanneke
3 weeks ago

What helmet are you wearing?

Josmanneke
3 weeks ago

ElectricBikeReview.com Thx for quick reply!

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Brent is wearing the Ruroc helmet which is actually for snowboarding... it has a removable chin portion which he took off: https://www.ruroc.com/en/

Edgar Gomez
3 weeks ago

I didn't though he spoke too fast, and I did find interesting the review. Just the air noise was a little loud. That cadence sensor was new for me.

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Thanks for the feedback Michael, doing my best to allow EBR to grow and cover more bikes, and let Brent find his own voice and style but also address any simple annoyances like wind. We had a conversation yesterday about how to reduce the noise so hope future reviews are better :)

POWER IN MOTION PIM
3 weeks ago

We have some great black Friday deals good though Monday!  Check out pimbicycles.com.  Let us know if you have any questions about the cadence sensor.

Michael V
3 weeks ago

He talks faster than Court does but clearly enough. I could follow with my english knowledge as learned at school and practice at work some years ago.

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Thanks Edgar, Brent is working on getting his camera fuz better to reduce wind noise

Chauncey Smith
3 weeks ago

Take my money.I would love a throttle but you can have all my money. Looks good and fun.

POWER IN MOTION PIM
3 weeks ago

Hey Chauncey,  once you try one you will realize you don't need the throttle.  There is a lot of power and in the high assist level don't have to work very hard to get the bike to go.

Jason Hoo
3 weeks ago

Thanks for the nice review, keep up the good work.

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Thanks Jason, we are doing our best :)

Kiinganu Tiamat
3 weeks ago

Worthless info on the braking system and nothing more.Total failure.

Dooneegomaface Ifinnaspring
2 weeks ago

I guess that's opposed to your review. Just be glad you got to see the bike.

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 weeks ago

Thanks for the feedback, I also feel that there is lots of room for improvement here, and we are working to do better in the future. This was Brent's third review, I spend a couple hours with him editing and talking about how to improve with each one :)

POWER IN MOTION PIM
3 weeks ago

If there are any questions I can answer for you please let us know.