Motiv Spark Review

2017 Motiv Spark Electric Bike Review
2017 Motiv Spark
2017 Motiv Spark Bafang 500 Watt Geared Hub Motor
2017 Motiv Spark 6 Speed Shimano Tourney Electric Bike
2017 Motiv Spark Cruiser Bars Shifter Grips
2017 Motiv Spark King Meter J Lcd
2017 Motiv Spark Tektro Mechanical Disc Brakes 180 Mm
2017 Motiv Spark Silver Fish Mid Mounted Ebike Battery
2017 Motiv Spark Electric Bike Review
2017 Motiv Spark
2017 Motiv Spark Bafang 500 Watt Geared Hub Motor
2017 Motiv Spark 6 Speed Shimano Tourney Electric Bike
2017 Motiv Spark Cruiser Bars Shifter Grips
2017 Motiv Spark King Meter J Lcd
2017 Motiv Spark Tektro Mechanical Disc Brakes 180 Mm
2017 Motiv Spark Silver Fish Mid Mounted Ebike Battery

Summary

  • A stylish electric cruiser bicycle with long comfortable handlebars, an oversized saddle, and a seat post suspension to smooth out the ride
  • Powerful 500 watt internally geared hub motor that peaks above 900 watts if you get the 48-volt battery option, offers pedal assist and throttle mode
  • Powerful 180 mm disc brakes with brake-lever motor inhibitors for immediate stops, strong steel fork and oversized alloy pedals with good traction
  • Available in a wide array of unique colors, removable battery pack makes charging and transporting easy, key must be left in the battery to operate

Search EBR

Video Review

Trusted Advertisers

Introduction

Make:

Motiv

Model:

Spark

Price:

$1,645.99 (Upgraded Battery $1,999.99)

Body Position:

Upright Relaxed

Suggested Use:

Neighborhood, Cruising

Electric Bike Class:

Throttle on Demand (Class 2), Speed Pedalec (Class 3)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

1 Year Electronics and Battery, Lifetime Frame

Availability:

United States, Australia

Model Year:

2017

Bicycle Details

Total Weight:

55.8 lbs (25.31 kg)

Battery Weight:

8.8 lbs (3.99 kg) (Optional 7.2 lb)

Motor Weight:

7 lbs (3.17 kg)

Frame Material:

6061 Hydroformed Aluminum

Frame Sizes:

17.5 in (44.45 cm)

Geometry Measurements:

17.5" Seat Tube, 23.5" Reach, 29.5" Stand Over Height, 74.5" Length

Frame Types:

Step-Thru

Frame Colors:

Matte Green, Satin Black, Matte Black, Red, Navy Blue, White

Frame Fork Details:

Rigid Steel, 9 mm Quick Release Skewer

Frame Rear Details:

10 mm Threaded Axle

Attachment Points:

Rear Rack Bosses, Fender Bosses

Gearing Details:

6 Speed 1x6 Shimano Tourney TX, 15-36T

Shifter Details:

Shimano SIS Index Thumb Shifter

Cranks:

Aluminum Alloy, 170 mm Length, 44T Chainring

Pedals:

Wellgo Aluminum Alloy Platform

Headset:

Neco, 1-1/8"

Stem:

Promax Alloy Quill, 90 mm Length

Handlebar:

Promax Alloy Cruiser, 28" Length

Brake Details:

Tektro Novela Mechanical Disc with 180 mm Rotors, Tektro Levers with Motor Inhibitors, Rubber Edges and Integrated Bell on Left

Grips:

Flat Rubber

Saddle:

Velo Comfort with Rubber Bumpers

Seat Post:

Promax Suspension Shock

Seat Post Length:

350 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

27.2 mm

Rims:

Paint-Matched, Alloy, Doublewall, 36 Hole

Spokes:

Stainless Steel, 12 Gauge, Black with Nipples

Tire Brand:

Kenda Small Block Eight, 26" x 2.35"

Wheel Sizes:

26 in (66.04cm)

Tire Details:

Puncture Protection, 30 to 50 PSI, 30 TPI, Wire Bead

Tube Details:

Schrader Valve, Puncture Sealent

Accessories:

Adjustable Length Kickstand, Color-Matched Steel Chain Cover

Other:

Locking Removable Battery Pack, 1.7 lb 2 Amp Charger, Motiv is Branded as Crooze in Australia

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

Bafang

Motor Type:

Rear-Mounted Geared Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

500 watts

Motor Peak Output:

900 watts

Battery Brand:

Samsung

Battery Voltage:

48 volts (Optional 36)

Battery Amp Hours:

16 ah (Optional 11)

Battery Watt Hours:

768 wh (Optional 396)

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

20 miles (32 km)

Estimated Max Range:

60 miles (97 km)

Display Type:

King-Meter J-LCD, Fixed, Monochrome, Backlit LCD

Readouts:

Battery Level (4 Bars), Clock, Assist Level (0-5), Speed, Odometer, Trip Meter

Display Accessories:

Independent Button Pad

Drive Mode:

Cadence Sensing Pedal Assist, Twist Throttle

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph) (Up to 26 mph with 48 Battery)

Trusted Advertisers



Written Review

The Spark is a powerful, well-balanced, cruiser style electric bike built around a sturdy high-step cantilever frame. Motiv produces a very similar model called the Sleek which is slightly smaller and offers a lower stand-over height. Both models are made primarily from Aluminum alloy but feature a vibration-dampening steel fork and full steel chain cover. Rather than weigh the bike down and increase the cost and complexity of the product by adding a suspension fork, Motiv opted for a lighter suspension seat post, padded saddle, and swept-back handlebars. These, combined with the wider 2.35″ Kenda Small Block Eight tires (which have a decent 30 to 50 PSI range), deliver a fairly comfortable ride. Not much has changed on the Spark since I reviewed it in 2013… the price has dropped slightly and you now have four battery size options. The display changed from a simple three-color LED indicator showing relative battery capacity to an advanced LCD display that gives you more control over speed settings. The 2017 Motiv Spark offers basic cadence sensing pedal assist as well as a variable speed twist throttle. The two systems complement each other perfectly, offering riders a way to start from a standstill, pedal comfortably with a bit of help, and override assist instantly at any time to maybe climb or catch up with a friend. You can get the Spark in a wide range of colors, and I found that they were unique and nicer looking than the standard primary red, blue, yellow etc. Some, like the black model shown in the photos and video of this review, are matte and others are metallic.

Driving the bike is a 500 watt nominally rated Bafang geared hub motor. I’m told it can peak over 900 watts and I believe it… especially on the 48 volt battery version of the Spark. This hub motor is compact, responsive, and it blends in with the black spokes if you go for the black frame. These days, a lot of ebikes are hitting the market with mid-motors but they usually don’t have throttle operation, they tend to cost more, and they complicate the drivetrain (often straining the chain, rear sprockets, and derailleur. What you get here is a time-tested system that’s a bit less efficient, but easy and enjoyable to use. Note that the front wheel has quick release while the rear does not. It uses nuts (as most hub motor setups do) and the axle is slightly thicker. As far as pedaling goes, you pedal completely independently from the motor and have six gears to work with. It’s a rather small range but much better than a single speed as some cruisers offer… at least for climbing and being able to catch up at high speed. Sam Townsend, the owner of Electric Bicycle Center in Fullerton, was on hand for this review explaining that some of his customers upgrade the chainring or cassette to have a wider range because they will adjust the speed settings to go over 20 mph. At and above 20 mph, the stock setup has your legs turning a little fast, so I get that. Derailleur used here is a base model Shimano Tourney TX and the shifter is a large thumb style setup that works well if you’re wearing gloves but is more difficult to reach while gripping the bars than trigger shifters, in my experience.

Powering the bike is one of four battery pack options ranging from 36-volt 11 or 16 amp hours up to 48-volt 11 or 16 amp hours. There’s a noticeable difference in torque and power with the 36-volt options but they weigh a bit less and also cost less. Note that you cannot switch from 36 volts to 48 volts once you by the bike, the power system is different… so, unfortunately, it’s not like you can upgrade the battery pack down the line even though they look the same. With a 48 volt system, you get more efficiency in power transfer and a higher watt-hour capacity for longer rides. If you’re a larger person and don’t intend to pedal much, I’d definitely consider the 48-volt upgrade. I like how the battery is positioned on the bike, low and center, and that you can remove the pack and easily carry it around by the plastic swivel handle up at the top. This is a Silverfish battery pack design that has been around for many years, it’s the kind of part that is shared across a range of e-bikes and can be replaced or repacked more affordably. The one gripe I have is that you have to insert, twist, and leave the key in the battery pack in order to use the bike. It functions much like a car ignition in this way… and I find that the key is more prone to snags and jingling if you also have a keychain connected to it. If you just leave the key on its own, you might have to take it off every time you stop and that’s a hassle. Most electric bicycles these days only use a key to lock the battery to the bicycle and then use a power button in place of a keyed ignition. Thankfully, the battery can be charged on or off the bike and the standard 2 Amp charger is fairly portable.

Operating the bike is fairly easy and you get a bunch of customization options through the LCD display that other e-bikes just don’t offer. So you charge and mount the battery, turn the key in the battery to on, then press the MODE button on the button pad near the left grip for a second or two. From here, the display flickers on with standard readouts like battery charge level, clock, assist level, speed, and odometer. You click the up button for more power and the down arrow for less but the twist throttle is always active and provides full power if you twist it all the way. This is an important point because it’s easy to end a ride and get off the bike but forget to turn it off… and then bump the throttle and have the bike lurch forward. So back to those options, you hold the up and down keys for a few seconds together to enter settings and this is where you can raise the top speed, change the units, and even adjust the number of assist levels from 5 to 3 if you prefer less button pushing. You don’t get a fancy USB power port on this display combo and the battery infographic is a bit limited with just four bars vs. 5 or 10 or a battery percentage, but it’s still an upgrade from the older 3-LED design. The cockpit area of the Motiv Spark is wide open and fairly clean. I like the brake levers they chose because the leading edges are rubberized and there’s an integrated bell on the left. There’s plenty of room to mount a cup holder up here, which is great because the bike doesn’t have bottle cage bosses. You could also add a disc brake compatible rear rack.

All things considered, this is a more basic electric bike that uses the same hardware you could buy in a kit and mount yourself… but the price isn’t that bad and the frame is purpose-built with additional strength and internal routing in areas to clean up the look. For 2017, Motiv changed their cadence sensor to be smaller and more protected. You get rear rack bosses and could certainly add fenders aftermarket (in fact, I think their latest models may come with them). I appreciate the large mechanical disc brakes and am willing to trade of hydraulic for the cost savings here. The founder of this company is a cool guy and I just like the way the product looks. If you’re someone who appreciates the OC So-Cal chopper look and wants a powerful throttle operated electric bike, this is one of the best options. There are groups of Motiv owners who go on rides together and I feel like it connects with a certain type of rider. It’s definitely a capable bike, though a little less refined than the $3k+ models we now see from mainstream manufacturers. I appreciate the upright relaxed feel and serviceability of the design.

Pros:

  • Even though this bike doesn’t come with a suspension fork, the steel fork dampens vibration, the larger knobby tires take out small bumps, you get a seat post suspension to ease your back and neck, and your body position is a bit more relaxed thanks to the swept-back cruiser-style handlebars
  • Excellent kickstand placement, it stays out of the way and makes servicing or cleaning the chain easier because you can pedal backward with it deployed
  • Comfortable oversized saddle and large grippy oversized pedals, The touch points are solid and this makes pedaling and just handling the bike a lot easier
  • Lots of battery options with this electric bike, you can optimize for affordability or power and range, the 48-volt packs are more efficient and provide a zippier feel
  • I love that the battery is positioned at the center of the bike vs. a rear rack, appreciate that all of the different sizes of packs still use the same casing and fit in the same spot, and that you can charge the battery on or off the bike, it makes parking easier and makes the bike lighter for transport as well
  • The Promax brakes have tool-free adjustable calipers, large 180 mm rotors, the levers have motor inhibitors, and there’s an integrated bell in the left lever that sounds loud and clear
  • The wheels are built with thicker 12 gauge spokes to handle the high forces of the hub motor and potentially, a heavier rider or load if you add a rear rack
  • For a cruiser bike like this, where you might have the saddle low and relaxed, it’s great to have twist throttle because pedaling might not be as comfortable, so it’s great that you have assist and throttle that overrides assist to help you get going or zip all the way up to full speed
  • Motiv is using a new, more compact, cadence sensor that is less likely to get bumped out of alignment or become inconsistent due to dust and dirt, it worked really well
  • During the video review, Sam Townsend of the Electric Bicycle Center in Fullerton started telling me about rides he had done on the Motiv Spark and what accessories he likes which included the Topeak Disc Brake Rack and Slider Trunk Bag
  • The display panel is an upgrade from earlier Motiv electric bike models which just had a three color LED readout for battery level, you can adjust a lot more now including the top speed by holding the up and down arrows for a few seconds to enter settings

Cons:

  • Only available in one frame size but you could opt for the Motiv Sleek which is basically the same e-bike, just in a step-thru design, both models come in a wide range of colors
  • The bike doesn’t come with any fenders, rear rack, or integrated lights, but it’s priced lower and does have provisions for adding your own, I like that it has a full chain cover but wish it had bottle cage bosses
  • Some of the wires aren’t internally routed which doesn’t look as clean and could snag easier, but some shops have told me that they prefer working on bikes like this because it’s easier to access parts
  • In order to operate the bike, you need to insert the key into the top left side of the battery pack and turn it like you would with an automobile, this leaves the key a bit exposed to bumping or jingling around as you ride (especially if you have it on a keychain)
  • More basic drivetrain, you only get six gears and the derailleur is the lowest part level in the Shimano line, Tourney TX
  • Sam told me that you can ungovern the motor to ride a bit faster with the help of your shop, and in that case, you might also want to upgrade the drivetrain to have a larger chainring or smaller sprocket at the rear so you can keep up and not be “beating eggs” pedaling so fast
  • Because this bike uses a cadence sensor vs. torque or combined signal, the motor takes a moment to kick in and then drop out as you stop pedaling, this is where the throttle and motor inhibiting brake levers become useful

Resources:

Trusted Advertisers

More Motiv Reviews

Motiv Sleek Review

  • MSRP: $1,645.99
  • MODEL YEAR: 2017

A stylish electric cruiser available in several unique colors (metallics and matte finishes), mid-step frame is easier to mount but feels solid, simplistic and easy to work on. Long swept back handlebar and oversized comfort saddle give this ebike a relaxed ride quality,…...

Motiv Stash Review

  • MSRP: $1,549
  • MODEL YEAR: 2016

A comfortable folding electric bike with a basic suspension fork and larger diameter tires that help to dissipate bumps and cracks. Solid 350 watt internally geared hub motor from 8Fun paired with a 36 volt 9…...

Motiv Stout Review

  • MSRP: $2,599
  • MODEL YEAR: 2015

Easy to use fat style electric bike with a basic twist throttle mode that goes up to 20 mph, great for use in snow, sand, grass and other off-road environments. Battery is mounted low and center on the bike for balance, suspension seat post adds…...

Motiv Sherpa Review

  • MSRP: $2,499.99
  • MODEL YEAR: 2015

Budget priced electric cargo bike with removable front mounted porteur rack and welded rear cargo rack. Capable 500 watt geared rear hub motor paired with removable mid-mounted 48 volt Lithium-ion battery…...

Motiv Shadow Review

  • MSRP: $2,249.99
  • MODEL YEAR: 2013, 2014

Sporty design is fun to pedal but still forgiving thanks to the soft gel seat and neck shock with good travel. Battery pack location is low and stable, helps distribute weight across the frame and it's…...

2014 Motiv Spark Review

  • MSRP: $1,749
  • MODEL YEAR: 2013, 2014

Well-rounded cruiser style electric bike with low center of gravity and powerful drive system. Upgradable battery pack offers increased range or torque, can be charged on or off the…...

2014 Motiv Sleek Review

  • MSRP: $1,749.99
  • MODEL YEAR: 2013, 2014

Cruiser style electric bike that's well balanced with mid-mount battery, well priced and quite powerful. Strong 500 watt geared hub motor is a capable hill climber, made even stronger with…...


Be the First to Post a Comment

Your email address will not be published.

John from Connecticut
3 days ago

Is this even possible in the US at the moment? Unlike Asia and Europe where bikes are actually seen as a legitimate means of transportation most of what I've seen in the States is that biking is seen more as a recreational activity with only a tiny number (relatively speaking) of users. This isn't just limited to ebikes, when I ride a bike in my small town for every 5 persons who actually seem to be using their bikes to go to the market or work or whatever there seem to be 15 bikers riding high-end road bikes with the spandex getup which I just can't see being apoted by non-entusiasts. Even in places like Washington DC and Portland that are seen as super-bike friendly the number of bikers you see are a very small number compared to car users. So long as gas costs are so low here and the use of cars so high what little infrastructure there is for bikes seems to be, at best, an afterthought. Hopefully I'm totally wrong but seeing how the bikes that are talked about the most are high priced, very top of the line bikes it seems that the bike makers are looking to become the next Ferrari and not too concerned about building the next Toyota Corolla.

Hello.
I completely agree. My opinion.... Based on just good old observations and general conversations I've had with folks about bike riding, there never will be a
Michael Dell of e-Bike in the US. Cycling in the main stay is going no where. ( No pun intended ) I talk up the value and virtues and how I love my e-Bike,
to most anyone capable of riding hoping to spark some interest... Zero interest in riding a bike, never mind an e-Bike. Bike riding is not part of the
American culture.

I hear things like " Oh yea, I have a bike but haven't it in ( fill in the years ) 10, 15 who knows." Yes, the road folks are very active in the sport, but have
you checked the average age of road club riders ? They're not 'kids' and I'm being kind. When those folks are gone then what ? ( for cycling in general that is)

We all know the joy ease and fun of a quality e-bike, that's a no brainer. The issue is bike riding is just not in many or most folks thought process. That's
what it gets down to. My guess....The major manufacturers know this and are building 'Ferraris' and not 'Toyota Corolla' 'cause folks like myself and others
are willing to purchase and really value a quality product. ..There is a ray of hope. The owner of my LBS told me the growth in cycling is e-Bikes and wait for it
BMX.

One very last thought. It troubles me that some LBS owners are struggling, because they play a huge role for a first or second time buyer and without
them it will be even more difficult get and or keep new riders in the sport. Just my two cents.

John from CT

DMP
3 weeks ago

Ref CrossCurrent AIR, a few months old

Love this bike (other than the rear brakes), when it works, but unfortunately reliability is an issue and I need something reliable for commuting.

One persistent problem is flaking out in the rain, and I live in the north west, where it rains.

Tech support suggested water might be getting into the connectors, so I wanted to ask, has anybody experience with spraying the connectors with a water displacer such as WD 40? Used to work a treat on the spark plugs of my old car when they got damp but that was much higher power. Is there any reason not to try WD40? Any other suggestions or experience with this of note?

Thanks. If I can get this one solved I can ask about the other issues....

Mark Peralta
4 weeks ago

As a student studying electrical engineering course, I presume you want this to be your project ebike to make it run so you can have applied knowledge and hands on experience. And of course, improvise it to your own personal taste and gain self confidence doing it. Ebikes has gone a long long way in technological advances to the motors, controllers, and batteries. However, having hands on experience at the very basic level help you have a better feel and confidence on ebikes, both old and the current technologies.

Regarding the arcing and burning out of contact points on brushed motors, you can apply a simple method used by car engines in the past (1970's and older), before the advent of electronic ignitions. In the past, cars used contact points to power the spark plugs. They used a "condenser" (a paper capacitor) to mitigate arcing (and burning out) of the contact points. You can also put paper capacitor linked between the positive and negative terminals of the motor to minimize arcing at the brushes.

WilliamT
1 month ago

I've been in the market for an entry-level ebike and I've been watching the forms and searching online visiting local bike dealers.

I have come across two bikes that seem to be the same, just different names.

The Mangnum Mi5
https://www.magnumbikes.com/portfolio-item/magnum-mi5/

And
The Spark
https://gosparkbikes.com/products/spark-mss2

The specs are the same it warranty the same just one is $700 less (USD)

Is the local bikes shop experience worth the $700?

Thanks

I never heard of Spark bikes. The only big difference I see is the 48v motor one Spark vs a 36v 13ah battery. You'll get better acceleration on the Spark but your range is going to be much shorter than the Magnum. I have a 10.4ah battery and the range isn't that good. I get around 28 miles on a 48v kit and that's running Level 2/5 which puts out about 200 watts. I also have a 36v 13.6 ah geared hub kit and that gives me about 45 miles of range using similar assist.

The hardtail is a different animal entirely. The BBS02 mid drive is going to provide much more power 750w-1000w. If you like to shift, then the gear hub will work better. Shifting on the mid drive takes some technique if you don't want to mash the gears. There are solutions out there but nothing I think is really as good as having assists that don't depend on the chain.

TntE3+
1 month ago

Since you are trying to justify the cost of an ebike compared to something that has so much more technology a few things need to be cleared up for future readers about your posts.

"Bombardia" I think you mean Bombardier but it doesnt matter Sparks arent made by Bombardier or Bombardia but rather BRP ( Bombardier Recreational Products) which is different then Bombardier and no one in the industry would refer to Bombardier as the manufacturer of the Spark.

"Bombardia who has there own engine plant" factually untrue. BRP uses Rotax engines. They have been in business much longer then BRP almost 100 years. They make much more then engines for BRP a matter of fact they are much more known for aircraft engines.

"can tell you that the molds for Seadoo sparks where expensive up front" yea thats an understatement, they were the first Ski and to this point the only company to come to market with PolyTec. Can you imagine the R&D that had to be done, not even in the same world as any ebike. As for as 3 minutes I dont know how you would know that and I dont think BRP even makes the Spark hulls but can you imagine how much the setup to make these hulls is.

"90% of all bike frames are still hand jigged and welded by hand" really...seems like an awful high percentage to me.

No big deal but I just dont believe you are in the PWC industry from your post and you shouldnt say as much to mislead people.

I get it you sound like you are vested in the ebike industry....awesome...I love the hobby and people that make quality bikes is great! I just dont think there is any justification for the prices
You think because my auto correct fixed bombardia from bombardier makes you think for a brief second I’m not in watercraft industry. The spark is a pos plastic entry level watercraft, that’s had record number of major failures conspired to many other models.
I know how long we did development on the Yamaha wave raider, and working with fox for last 10yrs I know what they put into the development of just a set of forks.
Take the anitials from my screen name and cross reference them to tnt performance engineering.
Not only will you find how wrong you are about me being in watercraft business but you will find we been in the business since 1987. Not only are we in the business we also manufacture water craft products that are the only ones in the industry who build come pipes. So we know a thing or two about what automation does for production costs.
And spark, Fff, and few other boats have been made from poly’s.
The molds are made in-house on Cnc platform and cost about 80,000 to make.
Each hull cost less then 75 bucks to manufacture.
Along with, hoods, seats, seat bases, cowlings.
Then when you actually do some home work you find I also worked for Yamaha R&d for some time. As well as spent 12yrs as a professional watercraft racer.
Also look deep into Rotax and BRP.
Then you mention price of ebike.
Well what about the price of a high end mountain bike. What I paid for my Bulls ebike you can’t buy half the name brand 160mm travel mountain bike.
I don’t see the cost for some of them as you stated but I have found there some great ebikes out there for much less then the Haibike and there no compromise in components or build quality.

Earl44
1 month ago

I happen to be
i happen to be
in the watercraft business and can tell you that the molds for Seadoo sparks where expensive up front there an automated system and they can pop out a complete hull in less then 3 min.
90% of all bike frames are still hand jigged and welded by hand.
For me to cope, prep, cut weld up a simple bike frame it’s roughly 2-3hrs time.
So now the spark is made by Bombardia who has there own engine plant as well as manufacturing facility. The spark engine is in 11 different models and snowmobiles. So it’s a mass produced engine.
Spark has electronics, starter motor and gauge cluster that are not manufactured by bombardia.
But the bikes all have aftermarket hardware, brakes, shifters, bars, derailed, tires, wheels, suspension.
All run the same distributor network system that was spoken about in opening of this post.
So when you only make 20% of your bike and your purchasing 80% of the components your price structure is not so good.
But we as consumers are a big problem in the price of bikes.
How many would buy an off brand bike with no name components??
Take away the Shimano shifters, no Rock Shox or Fox suspension and no name cranks sets and chains and gamble 2800 or you gonna step up buy a 4600 bike with all the proven components??

Since you are trying to justify the cost of an ebike compared to something that has so much more technology a few things need to be cleared up for future readers about your posts.

"Bombardia" I think you mean Bombardier but it doesnt matter Sparks arent made by Bombardier or Bombardia but rather BRP ( Bombardier Recreational Products) which is different then Bombardier and no one in the industry would refer to Bombardier as the manufacturer of the Spark.

"Bombardia who has there own engine plant" factually untrue. BRP uses Rotax engines. They have been in business much longer then BRP almost 100 years. They make much more then engines for BRP a matter of fact they are much more known for aircraft engines.

"can tell you that the molds for Seadoo sparks where expensive up front" yea thats an understatement, they were the first Ski and to this point the only company to come to market with PolyTec. Can you imagine the R&D that had to be done, not even in the same world as any ebike. As for as 3 minutes I dont know how you would know that and I dont think BRP even makes the Spark hulls but can you imagine how much the setup to make these hulls is.

"90% of all bike frames are still hand jigged and welded by hand" really...seems like an awful high percentage to me.

No big deal but I just dont believe you are in the PWC industry from your post and you shouldnt say as much to mislead people.

I get it you sound like you are vested in the ebike industry....awesome...I love the hobby and people that make quality bikes is great! I just dont think there is any justification for the prices

TntE3+
2 months ago

I happen to be
Define "WAY too much profit margin", please.

When I manufactured and sold computer hardware in the 1990's, the rule of thumb was that you needed a five hundred percent markup just to break even. That may sound ridiculous but in practice the distribution channel took nearly all of profit margin.

I'll give a simple example: let's say you are selling a piece of hardware for a list price of $5000. In line with my rule of thumb the cost of goods sold would be approximately $1000. Sounds good? Well... The dealer has to make a substantial profit margin on the product to be motivated to sell the product. So probably the cost to the dealer is approximately $2500. Of course, we don't sell directly to the dealer, we sell to a distributor, who also needs to be motivated to sell the product. So we sell the hardware to the distributor for $1250. So that "profit margin" isn't nearly as fat as you perceive it to be.

If you are manufacturing any product that has to be sold by a dealer network that dealer network will devour your profit margins. And keep in mind if your dealer sells competing products, if everything else is equal they will sell the product that makes them the most money.

Outdoor gear, whether bikes, kayaks, or skis all run on similar profit margins and parameters. I am not saying this is good or bad. Just the way it is.i happen to be
in the watercraft business and can tell you that the molds for Seadoo sparks where expensive up front there an automated system and they can pop out a complete hull in less then 3 min.
90% of all bike frames are still hand jigged and welded by hand.
For me to cope, prep, cut weld up a simple bike frame it’s roughly 2-3hrs time.
So now the spark is made by Bombardia who has there own engine plant as well as manufacturing facility. The spark engine is in 11 different models and snowmobiles. So it’s a mass produced engine.
Spark has electronics, starter motor and gauge cluster that are not manufactured by bombardia.
But the bikes all have aftermarket hardware, brakes, shifters, bars, derailed, tires, wheels, suspension.
All run the same distributor network system that was spoken about in opening of this post.
So when you only make 20% of your bike and your purchasing 80% of the components your price structure is not so good.
But we as consumers are a big problem in the price of bikes.
How many would buy an off brand bike with no name components??
Take away the Shimano shifters, no Rock Shox or Fox suspension and no name cranks sets and chains and gamble 2800 or you gonna step up buy a 4600 bike with all the proven components??

FredE
2 months ago

I've been in the market for an entry-level ebike and I've been watching the forms and searching online visiting local bike dealers.

I have come across two bikes that seem to be the same, just different names.

The Mangnum Mi5
https://www.magnumbikes.com/portfolio-item/magnum-mi5/

And
The Spark
https://gosparkbikes.com/products/spark-mss2

The specs are the same it warranty the same just one is $700 less (USD)

Is the local bikes shop experience worth the $700?

Thanks

Earl44
2 months ago

Based on a 5 year expected life, and what I paid for them, owning my Haibikes is about the same price each year as a health club membership. No resale on that membership either. I go longer and faster on my eBike now at 65 than I can on a traditional bike. It's pure pleasure for me to be outside, compared to working out with other old people in a gym. I just got home from a 10 mile ride in 37 degree weather. Loved it. As has been mentioned, I paid far less than MSRP by purchasing a 150 mile demo in November, and another old model year in March. I have $5400 in two 28mph version XDURO Haibikes. I don't consider resale value for this kind of pleasure.

rich c,
good point, awesome the electric bike allows you to ride the way you desire. I use mine to ride off road trails to do things I normally wouldn't normally be able to do. Sounds like you got a sweet deal which is great!

But I am comparing the typical price someone would pay for an electric bike to something else to basically show how much these bikes cost compared to other things that have much more R&D, technology and if you buy at the right time comes with a 3 year warranty which costs BRP much more then any warranty a electric bike would have, you can even get a street motorcycle for the price of some of these bikes. I understand you dont want to resell but I do as I would like to get something different or even newer at some point. I agree its basically a real luxury to own an electric bike but so is owning the Spark and you get much more bang for your buck with excellent resale value.

Sorry I just the love the hobby and come back to it every winter but the cost of some of these things is absurd!

rich c
2 months ago

As one of my two hobbies...the one I do in the winter I Always wondered why these bikes were so expensive, always thought it was the battery. Unfortunately most people just cant drop 5k or 6k on a bike that has absolutely no resale value. I am trying to sell a lectric bike now to move up....its not even worth trying, I would be giving it away.

Now my second hobby, the one I do in the summer...jetsking. "Far superior stx15f"...lol...dude stick with bikes you know nothing about ski's. That ski has not changed in over a decade and still uses a darn lever for reverse, there is no technology on that thing, and it shows kawi has 10% of the PWC market! The "rinky dink spark" was the number one (Trixx) and two seller (3UP) last year. The 2017 Trixx can be picked up for 6800, the fact that electric bikes are even in the neighborhood is why this hobby is struggling growing in the states. The Trixx also has much more technology on it then any electric bike and the resale value is through the roof..

Which gets me back to my point I love my electric biking but the up front cost is way to much and the resale value is non existent hindering the growth of the sport. Skis like the Spark are also good for a family day, really tough to have a family day on one electric bike. Which unfortunately leaves the electric bike market for the wealth or for someone replacing an auto.

Based on a 5 year expected life, and what I paid for them, owning my Haibikes is about the same price each year as a health club membership. No resale on that membership either. I go longer and faster on my eBike now at 65 than I can on a traditional bike. It's pure pleasure for me to be outside, compared to working out with other old people in a gym. I just got home from a 10 mile ride in 37 degree weather. Loved it. As has been mentioned, I paid far less than MSRP by purchasing a 150 mile demo in November, and another old model year in March. I have $5400 in two 28mph version XDURO Haibikes. I don't consider resale value for this kind of pleasure.

Earl44
2 months ago

Try riding that rinky dink spark down the road with minimal pedal effort.
Or, better yet, start making ebikes.
or, a full size REAL sea doo cost more than any ebike made, a lot more.
or, who would buy a cheesy spark when a far superior stx15f only cost a few bucks more.
or, on a ebike you're breezing down the street going somewhere, even the best personal watercraft is nothing more than a jet propelled cork, dodging boat wakes, probably bored.
I've had more pleasure from my overpriced stromers than any harley or dirt bike I've ever had.
Not sure I can put a dollar amount on pleasure.
Old guy with a couple stromers and a 2015 stx15f. :)

As one of my two hobbies...the one I do in the winter I Always wondered why these bikes were so expensive, always thought it was the battery. Unfortunately most people just cant drop 5k or 6k on a bike that has absolutely no resale value. I am trying to sell a lectric bike now to move up....its not even worth trying, I would be giving it away.

Now my second hobby, the one I do in the summer...jetsking. "Far superior stx15f"...lol...dude stick with bikes you know nothing about ski's. That ski has not changed in over a decade and still uses a darn lever for reverse, there is no technology on that thing, and it shows kawi has 10% of the PWC market! The "rinky dink spark" was the number one (Trixx) and two seller (3UP) last year. The 2017 Trixx can be picked up for 6800, the fact that electric bikes are even in the neighborhood is why this hobby is struggling growing in the states. The Trixx also has much more technology on it then any electric bike and the resale value is through the roof..

Which gets me back to my point I love my electric biking but the up front cost is way to much and the resale value is non existent hindering the growth of the sport. Skis like the Spark are also good for a family day, really tough to have a family day on one electric bike. Which unfortunately leaves the electric bike market for the wealth or for someone replacing an auto.

Mike's E-Bikes
2 months ago

I can assure you as an e-bike dealer, there is not very much margin at all in this business, at least at the dealer level. Dealers are lucky to get 25% margin in most cases, especially when consumers do so much comparison shopping. Any regular bike shop will tell you its impossible to run a bike shop at 25% margins, and no you can't make much of it up on service and accessories. If the OEM's have high margins, and certainly some have higher than others, then you have to ask every time what is it that you are getting ? The other thing is that the e-bikes designed and marketed for the US are enough different from those in Europe, that there isn't in most cases sufficient volumes right now to lower end prices below where these guys are at. China is an entirely different market altogether, and while many millions are sold there, Americans would not accept the low quality and lead acid battery designs that are sold in very large volumes there. With less than 200,000 e-bikes sold in the US annually, and yet more than 90 brands, there is not much margin in this business for anyone in the short term. The company's that are making major investments in new designs, R&D, distribution channels, training, etc. are not making any net profit right now, and are making the commitment for the long haul. Many smaller firms that are start ups, or just came up in the past 5 years, aren't getting rich either. So these prices are not at all surprising, especially if you understand early stage markets, emerging technology, and all the costs that go into selling these things. As another data point, if a lot of money was being made at the dealer level, you'd see every single regular bike shop taking these on, hand over fist, but the opposite is true and the vast majority are very very reluctant to add ebikes to their line ups. And if a lot of money was being made at the dealer level, then the same would hold true at the OEM level. No way is an OEM gonna let a dealer take the lion's share of the margin. Just aint gonna happen in any industry. There's a ton of things that I can buy that are priced way less than any Haibike or other ebike, but its an apples and oranges comparison. I mean what the heck - an Iphone now can cost $1000, and the annual contract for nearly all phones is around $2000 to $2500, so thats $3500 right there for buyers of highest priced Iphone just in year 1. Apple though sells millions of phones every year, so the scale is enormous, but even at $1000 they make more margin on the Iphone, than most OEM's could ever possibly make on a $1000 ebike, and likely even more than an OEM makes on a $2000 ebike.
How is it that I can purchase a brand new Seadoo Spark for less money than a full suspension Haibike?

When you compare the two, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in R&D as well as shipping costs. Bombardier is a massive company with huge overhead. The same cannot be said for Haibike.

The numbers just don't add up. There is WAY too much profit margin on eBikes

fxr3
2 months ago

I think there are some economies of scale at play here too. BRP is a large company that manufactures/assembles in Mexico among other places. I bet across their product lines and brands, (ATVs, jet skis etc) that they are producing way more units than any individual e-bike manufacturer. I'm sure too, they share costs across some of their product lines whether manufacturing or distribution. I'm thinking the scale is just slightly different. So while yes, Bombardier has larger absolute cost/overhead, on a per unit basis I bet it might be smaller. Here's an article I read recently while not specifically about BRP, it mentions their Mexico manufacturing quite a bit:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-10-12/the-godfather-of-mexican-manufacturing-couldn-t-care-less-about-donald-trump
Save to say the spark is no more than a spark in BRP fire of gross income. Without checking, Europeans(where all the innovation is coming from) are income taxed at 50% + or -, and rumored to take month long summer vacations. Still, thank god thier into ebikes- cause I am too.
And, even more of a gamble on my part- I think Bombardier May be related to Polaris company- the peeps who make the ugliest ebike ever and still charge Haibike prices. Jeez, I can’t believe I’ve stuck up for haibike twice in this thread. At least they came up with “the tube” for 2018. A place to hide battery in downtube. Go figure

fxr3
2 months ago

How is it that I can purchase a brand new Seadoo Spark for less money than a full suspension Haibike?

When you compare the two, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in R&D as well as shipping costs. Bombardier is a massive company with huge overhead. The same cannot be said for Haibike.

The numbers just don't add up. There is WAY too much profit margin on eBikes...
Bombardier makes big jets, little jets, snowmobiles, motorcycles, jet skis, etc.
That puts the spark about equivalent to Haibike selling valve stem caps. Haibike could compete with anybody on valve stem caps.

fxr3
2 months ago

Try riding that rinky dink spark down the road with minimal pedal effort.
Or, better yet, start making ebikes.
or, a full size REAL sea doo cost more than any ebike made, a lot more.
or, who would buy a cheesy spark when a far superior stx15f only cost a few bucks more.
or, on a ebike you're breezing down the street going somewhere, even the best personal watercraft is nothing more than a jet propelled cork, dodging boat wakes, probably bored.
I've had more pleasure from my overpriced stromers than any harley or dirt bike I've ever had.
Not sure I can put a dollar amount on pleasure.
Old guy with a couple stromers and a 2015 stx15f. :)

Over50
2 months ago

How is it that I can purchase a brand new Seadoo Spark for less money than a full suspension Haibike?

When you compare the two, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in R&D as well as shipping costs. Bombardier is a massive company with huge overhead. The same cannot be said for Haibike.

The numbers just don't add up. There is WAY too much profit margin on eBikes...

I think there are some economies of scale at play here too. BRP is a large company that manufactures/assembles in Mexico among other places. I bet across their product lines and brands, (ATVs, jet skis etc) that they are producing way more units than any individual e-bike manufacturer. I'm sure too, they share costs across some of their product lines whether manufacturing or distribution. I'm thinking the scale is just slightly different. So while yes, Bombardier has larger absolute cost/overhead, on a per unit basis I bet it might be smaller. Here's an article I read recently while not specifically about BRP, it mentions their Mexico manufacturing quite a bit:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-10-12/the-godfather-of-mexican-manufacturing-couldn-t-care-less-about-donald-trump

xenon
2 months ago

How is it that I can purchase a brand new Seadoo Spark for less money than a full suspension Haibike?

When you compare the two, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in R&D as well as shipping costs. Bombardier is a massive company with huge overhead. The same cannot be said for Haibike.

The numbers just don't add up. There is WAY too much profit margin on eBikes...

harryS
2 months ago

I think you might buy a solder gun ($15 at Harbor Freight) and learn how to use it, Replace the battery connectors with XT60 or XT90 connectors. It's common to get a spark when connecting the battery. You can buy an XT90 sparkless connector, or turn your battery off when connecting, if it has a power switch, Maybe you can show some pics of the melted connectors.

While a bag keeps your controller dry in the rain, it doesn't help for heat and maybe those 1000W motors get the controller pretty hot. If the seller is going to send ypou a replacement controller under warranty or for cheap, take the deal. Anything you buy on your own, connectors might not be the same.

No one but electrical geeks will try to repair a controller. They can make these things for under 20 bucks. They might charge us more, but that's business.

Beyizzer
2 months ago

I'm going to get into my problem at the end, but i'm going to type a bit about what happened before it died in hopes that perhaps if i can get another one or fix this one i can avoid what i did wrong and prevent it from happening again. Because I'm so new to this and because resources seem to be real slim on the subject ANY help would be appreciated.

i got an ebike conversion kit (link)
I got one of those front wheel 1000w motors from walmart.com I got the kit in the mail and realized i needed a battery, researched batteries, realized it was something i'd have to figure out how to buy one day because $500 wasn't really in my budget.

i got a 48v 17ah battery (link)
couple months later i had an opportunity to get a loan double what the battery costed so i bought the battery with the loan, battery came in, i hooked everything up and connected the loose power wires of the battery to the power cables of the motor, my girlfriend then used the throttle, wheel moved, so the next day i had an electrician solder the connection to a set of male female connectors that were on the battery wire. the next day i was in business, riding around no problem.

bumps would disconnect wires, i kept having to pull over to reconnect
every time i hit a bump i would feel cautious because sometimes a bump would pull on a wire too much and disconnect one of them in the bag. i had the controller and the battery in the bag the motor came with sitting in a basket on the rear mount that the motor came with. So i got used to reconnecting wires anytime i would be driving through traffic and the throttle would suddenly stop doing something. I'd routinely pull over and check all the connections and check the throttle to see if the lights on the battery indicator lit up yet, once they did I lifted the front wheel and made sure the wheel reacted and then i'd be on my way. I knew this was only a temporary fix, maybe i needed to get some better connections from like an electric parts store or reconfigure my setup with longer wires. at first it was the yellow blue and green wires that kept coming undone, i've seen a lot of youtube videos where there's a plastic yellow box to connect them with but my setup came with three lose wires to three lose wires with some sort of rubber neck pieces that pulled over each other to make things snug. I pulled the green rubber back so the connectors were bare and made sure to make those click really secure and once those were secure i had a break for a while.

power cable issues
...but i still had problems, this time it seemed the power cable from the battery would not be disconnected, but nothing would work until I took apart the power connection of the red and black wires from the battery to the black and red wires coming from the motor i would disconnect them and reconnect them they would always spark but then the bike would work again, the other day i was about to do this on the side of the road but no spark, nothing worked, i took it to an electrician he said something about an over current and an electrical arc, i went to an ebike repair shop and he was saying he'd sell me another controller for $100 but the whole kit wasn't much more than that, and i found a bunch of really close controllers online for $20-100 most under $40. I'm not sure if i should open this controller up and find what needs to be fixed or get new connectors because one of the connectors is melted on the white plastic a little bit and the connector inside is kind of sideways counterclockwise. For walmart.com exchanges, some are sold by other sellers so i contacted the seller and they said they can send me a new controller but it would take 2.5 weeks.

John from Connecticut
2 months ago

Hello all - I need some help. I am getting the below 4x4 Sprinter Van that has a bed that raises. I want to put two bikes under the bed that fit when it is lowered - which will require taking the front wheel off.

What my requirements are:

A fun - want to ride every day - ride.
Suspension (through forks / tires) that will allow us to ride on easy to medium trails. I assume the full suspension bikes can't take a bike rack.....
Must have a bike rack as we will be taking camping stuff at least 10 miles down the trail... or getting groceries.
Long lasting battery.
Tough as we will be banging this thing around.
Unique - I love having cool things that spark conversations. Not to show off - but to start a conversation... I like to talk....
Weight - In my experience the lighter the bike the better the carve. But... I understand the electric bike is a lot heavier which is fine - expected - but 70+ pounds I wonder if that is too heavy for some of these??

We will be peddling a lot - I have a Carbon Fiber DaVinci (which is over my head in capabilities) so I want a bike that I can peddle a lot of the time.... maybe 50% on assist 1 or 2.. At least that is my vision - might change as I've never had an electric bike! I'm 48 and still want to go to places that others people aren't.

The bikes (I need two - one for me / one for my girl -- 5' 10" / 5' 6") that I'm kind of excited about are:

Haibike SDURO Trekking 9.5 - a little expensive and unsure about the off road capability. Looks like it is well put together - well thought out bike. Looks mad cool. A take down from this bike might be the M2S XC Sport?? Half the price.

M2S R750 Looks like a nice bike for the price. Looks like it is mad fun and has decent options. Unsure if that is an actual 750 Watt motor or the peak? Wish the battery was 52v. 62 pounds.

RadRover Man I love this company - flew from Key Largo up to Seattle to tested the bike. My only problem with the RadRover is that it seems that it hasn't been updated that much. I wish it had an option for a better battery and forks.

Volt Yukon Limited Looks like a real nice bike - possibly a step above the Rad but that is more like a Ford / Chevy argument.... they are too close to call so go with the one that looks the best. And the Volt guy is a little aggressive replying to comments anywhere the Volt is talked about. If I had to pick between the two - I think I would go Volt but would choose the R750 over both.

Teo S Another well priced bike and it seems to be a pretty nice one with a 750W motor . I am unsure how it compares the other Rad / Volt. Looks like the people who bought this bike really like it. But that is all relative -

Bulls / Specialized / Trek / and many other high end brands that make amazing bikes... but they seem to be a lot more expensive. I'm sure super nice rides - but is the price justified?

HaiBike
https://www.haibike.com/en-US/US/bikes/672/2018-sduro-trekking-9-5?variant=3840272848
M2S XC Sport
https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/frontpage/products/xc-mid-drive-electric-commuter?variant=38435959432
M2S R750
https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/frontpage/products/all-terrain-electric-fat-bike
RadRover
https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radrover-electric-fat-bike?variant=1121017965
Volt Yukon Limited
http://www.voltbike.ca/voltbike-yukon/voltbike-yukon-750-limited.html
Teo S
https://teofatbike.com/boutique/en/teo-s/teo-s-medium-noir-750w-p111c83/

Hello SV Moving On,
Looking for opinions on e-Bikes. I purchased a Trek XM700+ this past July and I absolutely love it ! My average daily ride is 20-ish miles and I hate to stop.

The Bosch Performance Motor is silky smooth, but very powerful, the Intuvia Controller is simple to use. My XM700+ glides along bringing me great joy....Hills, 'there are none' : ) I never thought cycling could be so much fun !... I made one change and added the Cirrus Bodyfloat seat post which I consider and absolute must. For me the frame stiffness was more then my back would tolerate, but the Bodyfloat is a marvelous piece of engineering, now my Trek is so comfortable...

The disk brakes are strong, extremely smooth and boy do they work. The swept back handlebars and the ergonomic grips make for a very comfortable ride.... The bike feels rock solid and is very well built. I've put on a little over 1000 miles in 3 months.

I'm sure there are many fine e-bikes out there, and I'm sure a few that are 'not so fine', but to me the Trek XM700+ plus is worth every penny and I'd do it all over again...

In fact I'm sort of doing that. I just ordered a Trek Powerfly 7 Mountain Bike based on my 700+ experience. I want to ride gravel/stone dust trails and I don't feel stable enough on the 7oo. The bike is fine, the issue is me, my 71 year old agility isn't what it used to be.

One last thing...A bike rack. I bought a Sirrus Freedom SuperClamp 2. It is great, once the hitch is installed, the rack is simple to install and remove from your vehicle. The rack is well built. Sirrus is a US company ( Madison Wisconsin ) . They've been in Wisconsin for 40 years, long before the catch phrase "Make America great again" . : ) I hope this was helpful.
All the best, John

El_Snago
2 months ago

So I live in the SF Bay Area, and I want to get an e-bike for when I switch from full time employee/part time student to full time student to save on car costs (not needing a parking permit alone will pay for a good chunk of the bike). College is ~7 miles away, and there's a steep climb right at the end (about 450ft in under a mile). I've been looking at all kinds of bikes, but man it's hard to sort through them all and make a decision. My wish list includes:

- $2-3k, though I might go higher for the right bike
- Class 3
- Removable display (I'll be parking at a school for extended periods, all the detachable stuff will come with me)
- Front suspension
- Pannier mounting points
- More upright sitting style, never liked forward leaning bikes
- Step-over style

Hopefully that's enough information to spark some ideas. I'm also curious how important you folks think things like shift sensing and brake inhibitors are for what will be a commuter bike that includes a hill.

As a starter, I was just looking at this one:
https://electricbikereview.com/izip/2016-e3-protour/
Looks like a good bike, but I'd be worried about the non-removable display, and the above questions about shift sensing and brake inhibitors apply too.

Thanks so much!

SV Moving On
2 months ago

Hello all - I need some help. I am getting the below 4x4 Sprinter Van that has a bed that raises. I want to put two bikes under the bed that fit when it is lowered - which will require taking the front wheel off.

What my requirements are:

A fun - want to ride every day - ride.
Suspension (through forks / tires) that will allow us to ride on easy to medium trails. I assume the full suspension bikes can't take a bike rack.....
Must have a bike rack as we will be taking camping stuff at least 10 miles down the trail... or getting groceries.
Long lasting battery.
Tough as we will be banging this thing around.
Unique - I love having cool things that spark conversations. Not to show off - but to start a conversation... I like to talk....
Weight - In my experience the lighter the bike the better the carve. But... I understand the electric bike is a lot heavier which is fine - expected - but 70+ pounds I wonder if that is too heavy for some of these??

We will be peddling a lot - I have a Carbon Fiber DaVinci (which is over my head in capabilities) so I want a bike that I can peddle a lot of the time.... maybe 50% on assist 1 or 2.. At least that is my vision - might change as I've never had an electric bike! I'm 48 and still want to go to places that others people aren't.

The bikes (I need two - one for me / one for my girl -- 5' 10" / 5' 6") that I'm kind of excited about are:

Haibike SDURO Trekking 9.5 - a little expensive and unsure about the off road capability. Looks like it is well put together - well thought out bike. Looks mad cool. A take down from this bike might be the M2S XC Sport?? Half the price.

M2S R750 Looks like a nice bike for the price. Looks like it is mad fun and has decent options. Unsure if that is an actual 750 Watt motor or the peak? Wish the battery was 52v. 62 pounds.

RadRover Man I love this company - flew from Key Largo up to Seattle to tested the bike. My only problem with the RadRover is that it seems that it hasn't been updated that much. I wish it had an option for a better battery and forks.

Volt Yukon Limited Looks like a real nice bike - possibly a step above the Rad but that is more like a Ford / Chevy argument.... they are too close to call so go with the one that looks the best. And the Volt guy is a little aggressive replying to comments anywhere the Volt is talked about. If I had to pick between the two - I think I would go Volt but would choose the R750 over both.

Teo S Another well priced bike and it seems to be a pretty nice one with a 750W motor . I am unsure how it compares the other Rad / Volt. Looks like the people who bought this bike really like it. But that is all relative -

Bulls / Specialized / Trek / and many other high end brands that make amazing bikes... but they seem to be a lot more expensive. I'm sure super nice rides - but is the price justified?

HaiBike
https://www.haibike.com/en-US/US/bikes/672/2018-sduro-trekking-9-5?variant=3840272848
M2S XC Sport
https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/frontpage/products/xc-mid-drive-electric-commuter?variant=38435959432
M2S R750
https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/frontpage/products/all-terrain-electric-fat-bike
RadRover
https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radrover-electric-fat-bike?variant=1121017965
Volt Yukon Limited
http://www.voltbike.ca/voltbike-yukon/voltbike-yukon-750-limited.html
Teo S
https://teofatbike.com/boutique/en/teo-s/teo-s-medium-noir-750w-p111c83/

harryS
3 months ago

A DPDT switch, something like this one with screw terminals if you cannot solder. This one handles 20A, which is more than what your motor will draw at running speeds.

I have carried multiple batteries, but I don't bother with switches. I use connectors. Hook up a fresh battery when the old one is run down. I can remove the batteries for charging and storage in a safe place when not riding. I don't have to carry them when not needed. XT60 and XT90 connectors are commonly used for this purpose, but connectors have to be soldered. These XT90's are an anti-spark model.

Why anti-spark? When a bike controller has been sitting for a while with no battery, it will have a large inrush of current when a battery is connected, enough to spark/pop. Annoying, and it degrades the contacts.

Court
3 months ago

Here's another press release update that Bosch sent out the other day in preparation for Interbike. The summary is: the new Active Line Plus, Active Line and eMTB mode. With zero resistance, Active Line Plus will produce new eBikes that finally feel like riding a natural bicycle. Plus, the motors are much smaller, lighter, quieter and smoother than before. The eMTB Mode is also like an iOS update for your bike – riders unlock it just by updating their bike’s software. Active Line is similar to Active Line Plus, but smaller and lighter. You’ll find all the details in the attached, and here’s a few accompanying photos.

Bosch introducing two new systems and eMTB mode at Interbike
Reutlingen, Germany / Irvine, CA – Bosch eBike Systems North America (www.bosch-ebike.us) is highlighting two new systems and the new eMTB mode for the North American market for Model Year 2018. These innovations and more will be on display at Bosch’s Interbike 2017 booth (#17177) and available for experiencing first hand at the Interbike indoor test track “The Circuit” (#C11).

Active Line Plus: Quieter with zero resistance

From the days of launching our very first eBike system in Europe in 2010, Bosch’s goal has always been to make an eBike retain the natural feel of a traditional bicycle. The earliest generation of our product came close and quickly jump-started the “pedal-assist” eBike market in Europe. Our 2nd generation system came even closer and has been a big factor in the rise of pedal-assist eBikes in the US since 2014. Through non-stop innovation at our Stuttgart headquarters, our latest drive unit generation, dubbed Active Line Plus (ALP), closes the gap even further between an eBike and bicycle.

Key improvements:

Smaller: the drive unit is 20% smaller (volumetric) which enables bike designs with a cleaner / integrated look, to more closely resemble traditional bikes. With the ALP, the drive unit is one step closer to disappearing within the frame of the bike.

Lighter: the ALP drive unit weighs approximately 7.1 lbs, a weight reduction of 19% compared with last year’s Active and Performance Line drive units. Lighter eBikes handle better during the ride and are easier to transport after the ride – both key enablers to eBike market growth.

Whisper-quiet: the completely re-designed drive unit features a new quieter gear concept and electric motor. As you pedal on a quiet road, now you just hear the wind in your face.

Zero pedalling resistance: due to this new gear concept, when the motor is in “off” mode or the rider surpasses the drive’s cut-off speed, the rider feels no more resistance in the pedals than on a traditional bicycle.

Multiple front chain ring possible: previously, all Bosch drive units allowed only one chain ring. ALP now features the ability to offer multiple front chain rings, for bikes that need a wider range of gears.

Superior range: the ALP combined with the 500Wh battery achieves 51 miles range (mixed-modes, favorable conditions), and a max of 130 miles-plus range (Eco mode, ideal conditions). This is achieved through key features such as high motor efficiency and lower max torque (50 Nm), which is set deliberately lower than Performance Line to cater to commuters & more casual cyclists.

“The New Active Line Plus is our proudest achievement thus far for pavement-style eBikes,” said Claudia Wasko, General Manager of Bosch eBike Systems Americas. “Active Line Plus gives riders the fun of an eBike with the feel of a bicycle.”

Active Line: Lighter and smaller

The new Active Line has all the same key features as Active Line Plus with three key differences:

40 Nm of torque rather than 50 Nm.
Weight is even less at 6.4 lbs.
5% percent smaller than ALP.

eMTB Mode for Performance Line CX

A mode for eMountain bikers: eMTB mode replaces the previous Sport mode of the Performance Line CX and switches between the Tour and Turbo riding modes. Depending on the pedal pressure, the progressive motor support automatically adapts to the individual’s riding style. Without changing gear, the motor always provides support at the ideal power level, even at low cadences. eMTB mode is available to dealers in the form of a software update.

“Our new eMTB mode is going to be a game changer for the e-mountain biker,” said Claudia Wasko, General Manager of Bosch eBike Systems Americas. “It takes trail riding to another level.”

Demo the future

Interbike 2017 show attendees will be able to demo many eBikes from Bosch’s new and existing brands at Outdoor Demo Day on Sept 18th and 19th and at the Bosch-sponsored indoor test track (“The Circuit”) on Sept 20th – 21st to try out Bosch’s new MY18 innovations. Dealers are also invited to attend seminars on eBike market trends, policy, technology, and more at the Bosch-sponsored “Electric Theatre”, located close to “The Circuit” Test Track, open Sept 20th and 21st 10AM – 5PM.

Photo 1: Active Line Plus

Photo 2: eMTB mode

About Bosch eBike Systems

A new generation of bikes is taking town and country by storm and is already a part of everyday life. eBikes are a modern means of transport for modern people: people in a hurry and people who prefer to take it easy, the fit and the comfort lovers, commuters and pleasure cyclists and, of course, young and old. The tailwind of technology-leading eBikes made by what are already more than 60 leading brands in Europe is powered by components that Bosch is developing to perfection. The Bosch portfolio ranges from the highly efficient drive unit (motor and gearbox) and high-quality batteries to a smart on-board and cycle computer that can be used intuitively. Perfect coordination of components holds the key to typical Bosch performance in terms of both comfort and efficiency.

Like other Bosch products, the eBike systems benefit from the Bosch Group’s technology and production know-how. From conception and engineering to manufacturing, marketing and after-sales service, Bosch eBike Systems constantly set new standards for the eBike industry. The Bosch Group’s experience in the areas of electric motors, sensor technology, displays and lithium-ion batteries ensures that Bosch eBike systems use technology that is invented for life and that eBike users have their fun.

For more information please visit www.bosch-ebike.com

About Bosch

The Bosch Group is a leading global supplier of technology and services. It employs roughly 390,000 associates worldwide (as of December 31, 2016). According to preliminary figures, the company generated sales of 73.1 billion euros in 2016. Its operations are divided into four business sectors: Mobility Solutions, Industrial Technology, Consumer Goods, and Energy and Building Technology. As a leading IoT company, Bosch offers innovative solutions for smart homes, smart cities, connected mobility, and connected industry. It uses its expertise in sensor technology, software, and services, as well as its own IoT cloud, to offer its customers connected, cross-domain solutions from a single source. The Bosch Group’s strategic objective is to deliver innovations for a connected life. Bosch improves quality of life worldwide with products and services that are innovative and spark enthusiasm. In short, Bosch creates technology that is “Invented for life.” The Bosch Group comprises Robert Bosch GmbH and its roughly 450 subsidiaries and regional companies in some 60 countries. Including sales and service partners, Bosch’s global manufacturing, engineering, and sales network covers nearly every country in the world. The basis for the company’s future growth is its innovative strength. At 120 locations across the globe, Bosch employs 59,000 associates in research and development.

Additional information is available online at www.bosch.com , www.iot.bosch.com , www.bosch-press.com , www.twitter.com/BoschPresse .

1/2
Foxyuniverse
3 months ago

Which battery did you have on this specific bike?

ZiggZagg11
6 months ago

It was time to upgrade from my 24v Lee Iacocca E-Bike... Yep,... you cost me big money now... :)

samuel Townsend
6 months ago

We love our Motiv's just did a memorial day weekend trip to Palm Springs with some customers had a blast. The Motiv bikes have never let us down and we have logged more miles on the them then any other model of E-bike we carry. The newest container of bikes from Motiv now come with color match fenders and integrated headlight with a solar powered tail light. Here's the best news of all, To be more competitive with the competition the Wholesale price has been lowered to the dealers.

James Mason
6 months ago

why do they do that with the key

John Moura
6 months ago

Those wispy clouds are chem-trails.

-SpyGuy-
2 weeks ago

John Moura that's not a thing, it's just condensed air

Michigan Mister
6 months ago

I know the optimum place for the battery is forward of the seat down bar, but for me this is the best. it's out of the way of both your feet/legs and a rack. plus, the battery here is more protected in the event of a spill, AND still accessible. it also allows the engineers to play around with more aesthetics in the rear of the bike. no wonder they sell a bunch with the motor specs- like it, GREAT starter bike price wise as well. nice review for a beginner I guess...

Mark Elford
6 months ago

Very nice setup.