Tern GSD Review

Tern Gsd Electric Bike Review
Tern Gsd
Tern Gsd Bosch Performance Line Electric Bike Motor
Tern Gsd Double Battery Option Bosch Powerpacks Stock 400
Tern Gsd Andros Adjustable Stem Bosch Purion Display Ergon Grips
Tern Gsd Small Bosch Purion Lcd Ebike Display Panel
Tern Gsd 15 Mm Thru Axle Rigid Alloy Fork 80 Mm Plastic Fenders
Tern Gsd Magura Mt5 Four Piston Brakes With 180 Mm Rotors
Tern Gsd 10 Speed Shimano Deore Derailleur With Shadow Plus Clutch
Tern Gsd Back Light Standing Points Reflectors
Tern Gsd Tern Branded Saddle With Integrated Handle
Tern Gsd Hebie Heavy Duty Double Leg Kickstand
Tern Gsd Bosch 4 Amp Fast E Bike Charger
Tern Gsd Electric Bike Review
Tern Gsd
Tern Gsd Bosch Performance Line Electric Bike Motor
Tern Gsd Double Battery Option Bosch Powerpacks Stock 400
Tern Gsd Andros Adjustable Stem Bosch Purion Display Ergon Grips
Tern Gsd Small Bosch Purion Lcd Ebike Display Panel
Tern Gsd 15 Mm Thru Axle Rigid Alloy Fork 80 Mm Plastic Fenders
Tern Gsd Magura Mt5 Four Piston Brakes With 180 Mm Rotors
Tern Gsd 10 Speed Shimano Deore Derailleur With Shadow Plus Clutch
Tern Gsd Back Light Standing Points Reflectors
Tern Gsd Tern Branded Saddle With Integrated Handle
Tern Gsd Hebie Heavy Duty Double Leg Kickstand
Tern Gsd Bosch 4 Amp Fast E Bike Charger

Summary

  • A sturdy, reliable, non-flexy, compact electric cargo bike with plenty of accessories to transport kids or even other adults, rated to haul up to 400 lbs
  • Available in three fun colors, highly visible with reflective tires, frame and bag decals, and integrated LED lights, great fenders and chain protector
  • Can be stored vertically on the back rack in an upright position to fit into elevators, closets, and other tight spaces, optional second battery and efficient mid-drive offer up to 150 miles per charge
  • Only available in one frame size but the Andros stem and telescoping seat post fit a full range of body types, despite having fatter tires the smaller diameter and lack of suspension can be jarring, the bike can be a bit tippy side-to-side and it's heavy at 67.7 lbs

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Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

Tern

Model:

GSD

Price:

$3,999 ($4,799 with Second Battery Pack)

Body Position:

Upright

Suggested Use:

Neighborhood, Urban, Commuting, Cargo

Electric Bike Class:

Pedal Assist (Class 1)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

2 Year Electronics and Battery, 5 Year Frame

Availability:

United States, Europe, Worldwide

Model Year:

2018

Bicycle Details

Total Weight:

67.7 lbs (30.7 kg)

Battery Weight:

5.5 lbs (2.49 kg)

Motor Weight:

8.8 lbs (3.99 kg)

Frame Material:

Aluminum Alloy

Frame Sizes:

16 in (40.64 cm)(Folded Size 39 cm x 86 cm x 84 cm)

Geometry Measurements:

16" Seat Tube, 19.5" Reach, 20" Stand Over Height, 50.5" Wheel Base, 26.75" Unfolded Width, 16" Folded Width, 72.5" Length, 42" Unfolded Height, 32" Folded Height

Frame Types:

Compact, Mid-Step, Folding (Patented OCL Joint, DoubleTruss Technology)

Frame Colors:

Gloss Beetle Blue, Gloss Orange, Metallic Silver Blue

Frame Fork Details:

Rigid Aluminum Alloy, Boost 110 mm Hub Spacing, 15 mm Thru-Axle with Quick Release

Frame Rear Details:

Boost 148 mm Hub Spacing, 12 mm Thru-Axle with Quick Release

Attachment Points:

Fender Bosses, Rear Rack Bosses, Luggage Socket™ Head Tube Bosses, Bottle Cage Bosses, Other Rack Bosses

Gearing Details:

10 Speed 1x10 Shimano Deore Derailleur with Shadow Plus One-Way Clutch, 11-36T Cassette

Shifter Details:

Shimano Two-Way, DYNA-SYS Triggers on Right

Cranks:

GSD Branded, Aluminum Alloy, 170 mm Crank Arms, 20T Chainring

Pedals:

VP Composite Plastic Platform with Sandpaper Grip Tread

Headset:

Sealed Cartridge Bearings, Threadless Internal Cups, Tapered 1-1/8" to 1-1/2"

Stem:

Andros™ Tool-Free Adjustable Angle

Handlebar:

Aluminum Alloy, Swept Back, 670 mm Length (Aluminum)

Brake Details:

Magura MT5 Hydraulic Disc with 180 mm Rotors, Quad-Piston Calipers, Two-Finger Magura MT5 Levers with Adjustable Reach

Grips:

Ergon GC1 Ergonomic, Locking

Saddle:

GSD Branded Comfort, Integrated Handle

Seat Post:

Telescopic Seatpost™, Aluminum Alloy

Seat Post Length:

300 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

34.9mm, 30.9 mm

Rims:

Atlas, Double Wall, 6061 Aluminum Alloy, 406x36, 32 Hole (With Brass Spoke Nipples)

Spokes:

Stainless Steel, Straight Gauge, 13 Gauge, Black with Black Nipples

Tire Brand:

Schwalbe Super Moto-X, 20" x 2.4" (62x406)

Wheel Sizes:

20 in (50.8cm)

Tire Details:

Performance GreenGuard, 30 to 65 PSI, 2.0 to 4.5 BAR, Reflective Sidewall Stripe, 62/110-16 M/C

Tube Details:

Schrader Valve

Accessories:

Front and Rear Fenders with Rubber Mud Flaps (80 mm Width), Rear Cargo Rack (Compatible with Yepp Child Seats Maxi Easyfit and Maxi Junior Easyfit and Other Tern Accessories), Integrated Valo™ Direct Lighting System Headlight (41 Lux, 150 Lumen), Herrmans e-Bike LED Light Back, Hebie Double-Leg Heavy Duty Kickstand, Deflopilator Handlebar Stabilizer Spring, SKS CHAINBLADE-E Plastic Chain Cover, Clear Frame Protection Stickers on Top Tube and Seat Stays, Optional Tern Branded Proprietary Fabric Rear Bags (24" Length x 8" Width x 14" Height, Adjustable, Reflective, Four Inner Pockets), Optional Proprietary Retractable Pegs for Rear Rider, Optional Upgrade to Bosch Powerpack 500, Optional Second Bosch Powerpack 500 ($800), Optional Transporteur Rack, Optional Sidekick Lower Deck, Optional Shortbed Tray, Optional Sidekick Seat Pad

Other:

Locking Mid-Frame Mounted Removable Battery Pack, Stainless Steel Hardware, 1.7 lb 4 Amp Charger, Max Weight ~396 lbs, Rubber Band Clasp for Folding Handlebar, Rear Feet for Vertical Storage, Reflective Tern Decals on Frame, Fits Riders From 4'10" to 6'5"

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

Bosch Performance Line Cruise

Motor Type:

Mid-Mounted Geared Motor
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

250 watts

Motor Peak Output:

500 watts

Motor Torque:

63 Newton meters

Battery Voltage:

36 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

11 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

396 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

3.5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

30 miles (48 km)

Estimated Max Range:

75 miles (121 km)

Display Type:

Bosch Purion, Fixed, Backlit LCD Control Panel with Integrated Button Pad, (Hold - to Cycle Through Readouts, Hold - and Press Power to Change Units) (Removable, Symmetrical Integrated Buttons for Right or Left Handed Users)

Readouts:

Speed, Assist Level (Eco, Tour, Sport, Turbo), Battery Level (1-5), Trip Distance, Total Distance, Estimated Range, Lights

Display Accessories:

Micro-USB Port for Diagnostics and Software Updates Only

Drive Mode:

Advanced Pedal Assist (Measures Wheel Speed, Pedal Cadence and Pedal Torque, Power Output Relative to Pedal Input: Eco 50% 40 Nm, Tour 120% 50 Nm, Sport 190% 55 Nm, Turbo 275% 63 Nm)

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph) (25 km/h in Europe)

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Written Review

Tern is internationally recognized and renowned for their high-quality folding bicycles, and electric folding bikes! The Vektron was their first major entry into this category in 2017, using the Bosch Active line system, but they did have a couple of conversion models dating back to 2014 that used the hub motor BionX system. With the GSD, you get a more powerful Bosch Performance Line mid-drive that keeps weight low and center on the frame, an option for two battery packs that can deliver 150 miles of range per charge, and a frame that is stiff, sturdy, and capable of hauling up to 400 pounds of people or goods. Even though this is technically not a folding electric bike… it does fold a bit. The handlebar post swivels, the stem can be angled completely up or down, and the telescoping seat post uses quick release levers to drop easily. Perhaps the most innovative feature isn’t the folding parts, but the four pegs built into the rear section of the bike and rack that allow it to tip back into a vertical position. And, to be pretty stable in that upright position! This allows the bike to easily fit into elevators, closets, and other tight spaces that can fit an average sized person (the bike takes up similar dimensions). Even though the bike weighs a bit more than an average electric bike at 67.7 lbs, tipping it up isn’t too difficult thanks to premium hydraulic disc brakes. These brakes, along with the tapered head tube, wider Boost hub spacing, and sturdy thru-axles are all reminiscent of a nice mountain bike. The 180 mm brake rotors are very large for such small wheels, and that provides a huge mechanical advantage when stopping. The brake levers are adjustable so they can fit smaller hands and even with one hand filming and the other using the brake I was able to stop with no issues. Yes, with a top assisted speed of 20 mph, fantastic range potential, and plenty of stopping power, my biggest focus when testing the bike was on stability and comfort. And frankly, it’s a bit of a compromise on these fronts.

The motor driving this bike is a Bosch Performance Line Cruise. It fits near the middle of the Bosch line in terms of power, and is a step up from the Active Line used on the Vektron folding model mentioned earlier. This motor offers up to 63 Newton meters of torque and listens for rear wheel speed, pedal cadence, and pedal torque signals over 1,000 times per second! That translates to excellent climbing ability, as long as you switch gears appropriately, and start/stop power delivery that is near instantaneous. When you’re pedaling through a city environment, with a heavier load, that kind of quick response is critical and it pairs nicely with the strong braking configuration touched on before. The motor is a geared design, and it produces some high pitched whirring noises when operated at full power and pedaling at high RPM… but I love that the motor actually supports faster spinning, up to 120 RPM, while some competing models, and even the Bosch Active Line, only go to 100 RPM. As someone with a sensitive knee, I prefer to spin faster with less force and this higher RPM support also means I don’t have to switch gears as frequently to go faster. When you’ve got a 10-speed cassette to explore as you do with the GSD, it’s nice to be able to achieve a range of speeds with each gear vs. having to use the triggers so frequently. The trigger shifters work well, and are only mounted on the right portion of the handle bar because this ebike uses a one-by drivetrain (only one chainring). The chain is completely covered at the bottom bracket area to keep your pants or dress grease free, and even though there was some bouncing of the chain, I imagine that it would not drop off easily. One unique hardware feature of the Shimano Deore derailleur that Tern specced here is a one-way clutch lever that tightens the chain when pushed to the up position. It’s a feature I most frequently see on mountain bikes that encounter a lot of rough terrain, but it’s helpful here because the chain is so long. Overall, this is one of my favorite motors and I feel that the drivetrain is great. Shops and end-users tell me that Bosch is reliable and I know that they have been producing and selling variations of this motor globally since 2013.

Powering this electric bicycle is the proven Bosch Powerpack 400… which is not quite as exciting as the newer Powerpack 500 (which offers ~25% more capacity and looks the same). The good news is, the mounting interface on the bike allows for backwards compatibility and can work with the 500 watt hour pack if you want it. Actually, there are two of these mounting interfaces because the Tern GSD is one of the new double-battery ready e-bikes. You can get an additional Powerpack 400 right out of the gate for ~$800 and effectively double your range. I love that both packs are positioned low and center on the frame while staying out of the way of passengers and cargo and being protected by the metal frame tubing. Unlocking and pulling them off can be a little bit trickier than single-battery bikes I have tested, but it wasn’t too bad. And, one of the coolest design features is that both packs can be charged simultaneously on the frame by plugging the charger into the single accessible slot (for the pack nearest the seat tube). It’s convenient and satisfying to fill this bike up, and it happens faster than many other e-bikes thanks to the Bosch 4 Amp charger. This charger only weighs 1.7 lbs and is compact enough to fit into the bottle pouch at the end of either side-bag that come with the bike. Other things I appreciate about these batteries is that they have a molded loop-handle built into the top for safer transport, an LED power level chart built into the side, and can be charged off of the bike with the same interface (no dongles or adapters required). Weighing in at ~5.4 lbs, I usually take batteries off before transporting my electric bikes by car rack or if I have to lift them, and the front wheel might also reduce weight, and is easy to remove with the quick release system along with the seat post and saddle.

Operating the Tern GSD is a snap. Once the battery (or batteries) are mounted and charged up, just press the power button on the top edge of the little Purion display panel near the left grip. The thing turns on quickly and is clear and easy to read. It’s smaller than the popular Bosch Intuvia, doesn’t have a functional Micro-USB port, isn’t removable, won’t swivel to reduce glare, and doesn’t offer readouts like average speed, max speed, clock, or shift recommendation… but it’s less prone to damage and super simple to use. There’s a + and – key built into the left side of the casing and their primary function is to increase or decrease assist power. You can go from Off to Eco, Tour, Sport, or Turbo. The higher you go, the more power is delivered and the faster you may go. The secondary function of these buttons is to activate the lights (by holding plus), or cycle through trip stats (by holding minus). Those trip stats include trip distance, total distance, and range. Range is my favorite because it offers more precision than the 5-bar battery infographic at the top of the LCD screen. It is calculated based on your remaining battery charge level, chosen level of assist, and the last mile of riding efficiency. The final button on the display is walk mode, which is positioned at the lower edge and requires a push, and then hold of the plus button to use. I was able to enjoy this feature while exploring a crowded park in Brooklyn, New York, and it really made our little adventure fun and relaxing vs. uncomfortable and strenuous. I can only imagine pushing a fully loaded cargo bike vs. the still-heavy unloaded demo model we used for this review. I love walk mode but not every company offers it or even enables it when they do have the same drive system as Tern has used here. It’s a feature that Bosch allows their partners to have some choice on… so thank you Tern!

I’d like to finish out this review by apologizing for the extra-close camera work in the video review above. My camera got a bit messed up and recorded on narrow setting vs. medium and that might have been uncomfortable for some viewers. I was so excited to cover this product because it offers something unique and useful in the space. So many companies have different sized frames, different colors, slightly different components etc. but Tern invented the GSD from the ground up. It really can help you “Get Stuff Done” and empower a family to live healthier and have more fun. For me, it was a little bit jarring, but the larger tires did make a difference for stability and comfort and the saddle felt nice. I was amazed how stiff it felt to ride with a heavy load on the back and inspired again and again by all of the attention to detail. From the vertical stand design to the folding stem and rubber strap secure feature, the fork spring with quick-release, to flip-out pegs. It’s quite capable, even though it’s compact and the value of the components they used matches or even exceeds the price being charged. I suppose they saved money by only having one frame size but the multiple color choices are great. Big thanks to Tern for partnering with me on this review and sending a demo unit out to Propel bikes in Brooklyn for me to film in a city environment. It was neat to see this new model back to back with the Tern Vektron and compare the price and weight. They each have their niche but I enjoy both and am excited to see how Tern refines them over the coming years or expands their offering with even more custom built electric bikes.

Pros:

  • Tern is a well-recongized and trusted company with years of folding bicycle and now folding electric bicycle expertise and leadership, their folding handlebar post with rubber clasp, Andros adjustable stem, and telescoping seat post feel solid and can accommodate riders from 4’8″ to 6’4″ according to their website
  • Most electric bikes are rated to carry 250 lbs or maybe 300 lbs but the GSD can handle up to 400 lbs! That’s two adults and a child, lots of groceries, lumber for a project etc. and the thick thru-axles and premium tires (with puncture protection) earned my trust
  • Safety is a hug deal to me because I sometimes ride in the early morning or evening surrounded by traffic, so I love the bright color options, reflective tires, reflective stickers on the frame and pannier bags, and the integrated lights that run off of the main battery
  • Some electric cargo bikes feel flexy because they are so long and lack the proper reinforcement, some position the battery or motor at the end vs. the center but the Tern GSD felt very solid and stiff, even with an adult riding on the back
  • The motor used here is one that I have reviewed hundreds of times before on other electric bikes and it has earned my trust as being reliable, it’s also very responsive and powerful, I have never felt out of control with it or like it wasn’t helping me enough on a hill (as long as I had shifted gears properly to climb)
  • The motor, battery, and nicer Shimano Deore 10-speed drivetrain allow you to get excellent range by shifting gears to climb or hit and maintain the 20 mph top speed, it’s a lot more efficient than a hub motor system because it’s empowered by your shifting vs. only having one gear ratio to work with
  • I love how the battery pack or packs can be charged on and off the bike, this is convenient for those who commute to work and need to fill-up for a long ride home or errands and then home, the Bosch charger offers 4 Amps vs. the standard 2 Amp which is slower, Bosch also offers a compact 2 Amp charger for people who want an extra but need to reduce weight and size
  • Power and range are important but so is stopping, especially with a heavier bike and potentially more gear or multiple passengers, the Magura MT5 brakes are fantastic! You get adjustable-reach levers and quad-piston calipers vs. the standard dual-piston design which spreads out force and improves cooling, the 180 mm rotors are almost overkill for the 20″ diameter wheelset, these are basically mountain bike brakes meant for full sized wheels
  • For such a custom ebike with premium drive system, drivetrain, brakes, fenders, lights, and bags… I feel like the ~$4k price point is pretty good! Yes, it’s still a lot of money, but this thing is like a truck and could really change how you interact with your community, it can also be shared between multiple riders
  • Tern chose the kickstand well, it deploys and stows easily while offering much more stability than a single-side stand that you’d find on most traditional bicycles, I also like the spring that keeps the front wheel relatively straight for loading and steering with heavy loads
  • So many awesome accessories! Whether you’re taking people or cargo, there are plenty of ways to stow gear, I especially like that there are pannier supports so you could use this for long distance touring, the front rack mounts to the head tube and stays straight as you turn (so it doesn’t impact steering) and the included pegs make it easy to bring a friend somewhere without having to spend extra money
  • The swept-back handlebar, ergonomic grips, and plush saddle made the bike a lot more comfortable than it could have been, they pair nicely with the fat tires if you lower the PSI a bit (just don’t go too low or it could cause a pinch flat, they recommend 30 to 65 PSI and I was riding at 30 PSI as a 135 lb rider)
  • Wider tires increase the size of your contact patch for grip, provide stability, and offer float on soft terrain like grass, they might not roll quite as efficiently as a more traditional 2.15″ diameter but they are perfect for dealing with heavier loads
  • With a lower 20″ stand over height, you can easily step-thru the frame vs. having to swing your leg up and over the saddle or over the rear rack (which might be loaded with cargo), I like that the top tube and portions of the side stays have clear plastic stickers to keep the paint looking nice
  • The fenders are extra wide, sturdy, and have flexible mud flaps and the chain guard offers full-coverage of the front sprocket and chain going back pretty far… so your pants or dress should stay clean
  • My understanding is that you can charge both batteries from the single charging port on the bike, this is convenient because you don’t have to remember to unplug one battery and plug the second in (this is only relevant if you buy a second battery and leave both packs connected to the frame)

Cons:

  • I was a little bit surprised that the Tern GSD doesn’t come stock with a Powerpack 500, you get the older slightly-lower capacity Powerpack 400 by default and can upgrade or get a second 400 for ~$800
  • Even with the fat 2.4″ tires (vs. the Tern Vektron’s 2.15″ tires) the GSD can still feel jarring and unstable compared to a full sized bike, I lowered the PSI to 30 (the lowest on the 30 to 65 pressure range stamped on the tire) and that helped a bit but I still might get a seat post suspension for the upper 30.9 mm portion and use a shim like this
  • The smaller diameter wheelset makes the bike easier to mount, load, and stabilize when starting or stopping but it also brings the derailleur and kickstand lower, the clearance on this bike is less than many other cargo models so be careful when parking near a curb or other low obstacles
  • Very minor complaint here, but the Bosch Performance Line motors have a reduction gear that creates some friction when pedaling vs. a 1 to 1 pedal ratio, the smaller sprocket also brings the chain very close to the frame tubing which could create some noise or nicks on bumpy terrain
  • For how compact and little this e-bike looks, it’s actually pretty heavy at ~67.7 lbs because of the additional reinforcement tubing, long rear rack, thicker rims, and fatter tires
  • The compact Bosch Purion display panel is not my favorite because you cannot remove it and the integrated Micro-USB port is not active for charging accessories (just performing software upgrades and diagnostics), seems like a missed opportunity when you potentially have two battery packs to draw from and are using your phone for GPS or music etc. but I do see how the larger Bosch Intuvia might not have fit with the adjustable Andros stem setup

Resources:

More Tern Reviews

Tern Vektron Review

  • MSRP: $3,400
  • MODEL YEAR: 2017

A premium folding electric bike with Bosch drive system and leading warranty, sturdy and quiet with plenty of adjustability (seat post height and stem angle), smart accessories help you carry gear and stay dry without noise. The folding joints are thick and sturdy but don't have sharp edges, both latches have…...

Tern Node D8 with BionX Review

  • MSRP: $2,750
  • MODEL YEAR: 2015

High quality folding frame from Tern combined with sophisticated, durable and quiet drive system from BionX. Four levels of pedal assist and regen as well as regenerative braking and variable speed…...

Tern Link D8 with BionX Review

  • MSRP: $2,700
  • MODEL YEAR: 2015

High quality folding frame from Tern combined with sophisticated and quiet drive system from BionX. Four levels of pedal assist and regen as well as regenerative braking and variable speed…...


Joe Green
4 months ago

Thanks for another great review. I’d love to try this bike at the Electric Bike Expo in Philly this weekend – Tern, will you have a GSD there for demoing?

Reply
Court Rye
4 months ago

Hi Joe, I cannot speak for Tern but I do plan on attending with Chris Nolte and some others. Should be a good time!

Reply
Guy
4 months ago

Thanks Court, awesome review as always! I am on the wait list for a test ride on this :).

Reply
Court Rye
4 months ago

Sweet! Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the positive words. Would love to hear your thoughts when it finally arrives and you get some saddle time :D

Reply
Jon Oates
4 months ago

Thanks, Court, for a thorough review. Are the passenger seat pad and cargorack clip, Vecro or bolt-on?

Reply
Court Rye
4 months ago

Hi Jon, I only saw the big pannier bags and they used Velcro. I will ask Chris to read and reply to your question, perhaps he or someone else knows?

Reply
Jon Oates
4 months ago

Great. Sorry about the weird spelling – my phone was doing strange things and rewriting some of the words (including Velcro, for some reason).

Chris @ Propel
4 months ago

The seat pads clip on and off with a proprietary system.

josh
3 months ago

Hey Jon,

The panniers use velcro and can be put on or taken off in a minute or two. They are designed to be left on permanently. They fold flat when not in use and act as a wheel guard for rear passengers. I keep my lock and bike cover in the panniers so they’re always at hand when I need them.

The seat pad uses a KlickFix quick release mount and it takes a second to put it on or take it off.

Joe Green
3 months ago

Is the total weight you listed in the specs with 0, 1, or 2 batteries? Just curious since the weight difference would be especially big for this bike since it can have up to 2 batteries.

Reply
Court Rye
3 months ago

Hi Joe! I weighed it with just one battery and no accessories :)

Reply

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ADKer
3 hours ago

Hello, 1st post. I have put in order for CCS with the new 19.2 battery for delivery in March/April. I did the usual research that led me to Juiced, but then I found this forum after I placed the order. After reading the entire 14 pages of this thread, the potential problems worrying me are: 1) the broken spoke problem 2) the cut-out/ loss of power problem Those 2 issues ; Have they been resolved, so I don't have to worry with purchase of a new bike? (I did note in 11/17 that Tora himself made a post and referred to new stronger spokes, and some type of cross-pattern application to reduce breakage-has all this been implemented?) Thanks!

Scooteretti
21 hours ago

@Chris Hammond nice to have input. My reason for recommending a mid drive and to answer some of the points you made are as follows:

1- While in theory this is true it really comes down to what quality of chains and sprockets are use. Certainly the first generation had these issues but as mid drives have become so popular suppliers like Connex and KMC have come out with ebike specific chains with pretty much eliminate this issue and have significantly increased wear resistance. It is not uncommon to get 3000 miles out of chain / from sprocket set up.

2- Agree that a high mileage rider should carry some spares and some basic tools. Chains like the KMC and Connex one's have the quick links so repairs out on the road will get you back up an running in just a few minutes. Truly super easy.

3- Hub motors especially geared hub systems from our experience will always have a lower overall life-cycle vs say a Bosch/Brose/Yamaha drive unit due to their inherent design and for the most part build quality. Most geared hub drive units are fairly inexpensive and mass produced in China where the quality of the internals are not as precise as the more popular high end mid drive units. Now this is not to say that they don't last a long time, they just don't typically last anywhere near as long as the high end mid drives.

In @TechMan 's case, the mileage is going to rack up pretty quickly and if the bike is to be a long term and reliable investment I firmly believe that the mid drive will outperform must rear hub systems.

4- True that if you have no chain or tools a rear hub with throttle could get you home (if there's enough remaining battery).

5- Flats (eventually will happen) will be significantly faster and easier to replace with a mid drive compared to most rear hub systems as there are no physical connectors and most bikes are typically equipped with some sort of quick release which makes things super easy.

While there are pros and cons to everything personally from our experience on selling thousands of electric bikes points more towards a higher end mid drive equipped bike as being the most cost effective and reliable for very high mileage riders.

There is certianly a place for hub motors and they do account for a good % of our business each year so I am certainly not knocking down their place in this market and they will be here for many years to come.

hope this helps,

Will
shop.scooteretti.com

bob armani
23 hours ago

Surfstar-If you want to buy cheap now and wait for 2019 models, have you considered looking for demo bikes with little wear and tear? You may be able to find one at a very reasonable price and sell it later without taking a big loss...

Bruce Arnold
1 day ago

On Friday, I did a 20 mile ride in to town and back. I don't recharge after every ride, so the battery was at around 49 volts when I set out. It was down to 44 volts when I got home.

44 volts is where I start to notice a serious loss of performance BTW.

The wife wanted to go for a ride later that afternoon, so I put the battery on the charger. In 2 hours it went from 44 to 48 volts. That's from 2 tick marks on the battery indicator to 6, if anyone wants a rough-and-ready comparison.

At 48 volts, we're back to good performance. Not as good as a full charge, but as my old man used to say, "good enough is good enough."

The main takeaway for me is how quickly you can add significant juice in just a couple of hours. This is useful information IMHO so I thought I'd share it.

Over50
1 day ago

Great choice on the tape. I used some reflective bike spoke tape on my bikes ... kinda looks like the photo below of my Tern. But your selection looks way more durable. I might pick up some and add some enhancements particular to my helmets.

Over50
1 day ago

I've been receiving marketing emails from the Body Float folks (guess they go by Kinekt now) that a new release (model 2.1) is imminent. I think the 2.0 models are discounted pending arrival of 2.1. Here is the text of their latest email:

Our 2.1 Aluminum and 3.1 Carbon Fiber seatposts should be hitting shelves within the next several weeks. With that, you'll see a few changes and improvements. For starters, hopefully you’re starting to recognize the transition from BodyFloat to KINEKT. The new 2.1 and 3.1 seatposts will reflect our new branding. You'll also start to see the new branding roll out with updated packaging and other collateral.
What's New? ... A sleeker link design, seat clamp assembly with spring to make saddle swaps a breeze, 12mm offset for more fore-aft positioning options

I'll probably wait for this release before I pick something for the Tern GSD (expecting in April). I'll need something for the wife who I outweigh by about 60 pounds. So a couple of questions I'm hoping someone can weigh in on: 1). Is there a better maybe less-technical seat post suspension option for a petite female? I noticed Brooks has some saddles with springs - do these work? Just thinking that the BF might be overkill for her if she doesn't ride nearly as much as I do. 2). Does anyone know of a security quick release seat post clamp? I envision something that is still QR but which maybe takes a key (I guess it would be that quick). Yes, I could switch it for a security hex clamp but if there was a key solution I could only lock it when parking outside and would have it truly QR most of the time. Or secondarily, something like a "saddle leash" that is locked at one end on the bike frame and maybe stores on the bike frame when not in use? Yes, I can carry a cable to loop through the saddle rails and attach to my lock but I was wondering if there was a ready-made product that stores on the bike. For my commuters currently, I carry two cables in my backpack or pannier. One for securing the front wheel and one for the saddle rails. Would be nice if there was something ready-made to store away on the bike frame.

surfstar
2 days ago

Bear with me for a lengthy post:

Just got back from my mtb commute - only the second time I’ve ridden to my new job. Used Google Fit for some tracking info. (side note, I think I would put 1500-2500 mi/yr on the bike)

Route: It’s only 5.1 mi, and my ride home has a steady incline of maybe 250’ gain over 2 miles, then mostly flat. I averaged 10mph roughly. My morning commute is of course the opposite, and averages a little faster with the downhill and less traffic. The uphill section usually has the most stops and starts, also.

stop/go factor: on my afternoon commute, since I stick to the main street with a nice bike lane, it has lots of stop lights and if you hit everyone, I can currently keep up with cars. An ebike may let me branch out to other faster streets with no dedicated bike lane, but I would be flowing with traffic, so I could up my speed and still be safe, I imagine. Either way, there is enough stop and go and I only hit a top speed of 16mph currently, so I see no need to rule out 20mph limited bikes now. Realizing that I may have a more stop and go pattern than many users with dedicated bike paths, I am now wondering if a geared hub motor would offer the best performance? Additionally, I do think I would like a throttle…
...which leads me to realizing that I need to at least ride a mid-motor torque pedalec and throttle/hub for test rides, even if they are not the exact models I may be looking at. They do at least have the Haibike locally. Hopefully that will help me determine if I have a preference for either speed sensor and/or throttle.

So, of course, more models keep popping up: Surface 604 Colt - will that be the best options/compromise for me? Is it worth ~$350 more than a RadCity? I can only imagine how the 2019 models may offer even more features for the same $. Which then makes me thing, go cheap, sell and upgrade later on... lol

Just thinking out loud, but also voicing my process as the additional info may give you guys help in any recommendations…

JKitto
2 days ago

Here's my final update. I took the bike in for a checkup at 1400kms and the chain, cluster and brakes were all worn past tolerance. So after 2 and a half weeks of riding I was going to have to replace those parts plus budget to replace them every 2-3 weeks and replace the chain ring every couple of months going forward. To me that was unacceptable as it was cost prohibitive. The bike has been since been returned. It was a nice bike to ride but I couldn't have a primary commuter go through parts that fast. I was riding it like a normal bicycle meaning keeping the cadence up and using all of the gears to keep stress on the drive train low. Also it was in eco mode for 44 of the 45kms of leg of the commute. The bike was maintained every night after the commute and the chain checked, and lubed if necessary, between the morning and afternoon commutes.

As for the battery, Specialized sent me a U1-604 to replace the U1-504. I did get more range but still not enough to be comfortable with having the lights and eco mode both on for the round trip without charging in between.

What I've learned from this is that the mid-drive is very hard on the drive train components and I would likely have had better drive train life with a hub drive.

JRA
2 days ago

Di2 Alfine 11 works for me. Because I have vertical dropouts I need to use a chain tensioner which cuts into the efficiency some. A little spendy but I don't mind shifting and as far as coolness factor goes.......

Powerloss through the drivetrain adds up over time. An e bike does a good job of compensating as long as you have the proper gear range for your riding terrain and style. Not only when under power but when you stop pedaling an internal gear hub can still have parasitic drag and this it the powerloss that saps your legs when riding without power, along with the overall weight of the bike of course.

But in the end it is hard to beat a cassette/derailleur system for efficiency given that it is tune. Also a lot lighter weight, didn't weigh my Alfine but certainly the bike is heavier with it but the performance meets my needs and is still under 50lbs without any lightweight components otherwise.

Bruce Arnold
2 days ago

Reid, that's good advice and I fully plan to follow through. I can do a quick check myself for obvious looseness, but I want a pro to do a thorough job in the not-too-distant future.

As to the trip odometer, unless I do a manual reset (which also zeros out total watt-hours etc.), the odometer keeps adding up, ride after ride. I don't consider it a trip odometer if it can't be reset independently. If I'm missing something, please tell me!

Chris, I haven't seen any recommendations on checking the spokes specifically from Juiced. To me, that's just generic bike knowledge. Spokes that are loose can be felt with the fingers -- they will move. You can get a feel for the overall state of tune by pinging each spoke with a wrench or something -- they should all make more or less the same musical note. This only takes a couple of minutes. Most of us could learn to lace and true a wheel ourselves. Naturally, there are YouTube videos galore. To me, it's kind of like hanging dry wall: I can do it, but it would take me a whole weekend to do what a pro can do in an afternoon -- and they make it look so easy. ;)

Nber
3 days ago

Help , I'm looking at rad mini , we have many trails which assist and fat tires would come in handy , but my main concern is I travel by bike every day year round in at times harsh weather , I don't want to use the assist other than for hilly terrain , how does the bike handle without assist , any advice would help

Dmitri
4 days ago

I think those are the founders' economic preferences. For example, the Fox Factory fork has a longer steerer tube than the Aion, so instead of finding the right spacers and keeping the angled Ergotec stem, they just went for a different, cheaper/uglier stem. Problem solved.

My argument here is that, if it's a road bike, you don't need XTR Di2 necessarily -- this is more appropriate for aggressive trail riding. For the road, a Rohloff or NuVinci is a better choice. But, again, a Rohloff costs twice as much as the XTR Di2 setup, and we got to keep those profit margins!

As far as tires go, all I'm saying is there's no advantage in going for slicker tires on an ebike: considerations like rolling resistance are important for mechanical bikes where you need to put in the effort to turn the wheels. Here you can have the best of both worlds: good road grip (suitable for gravel etc.) and high speeds. No need to compromise. But on this bike we have road tires with an MTB-specific system.

Yes, I suspect both Rohloff E-14 and Bosch's ABS are not yet ready. But if any company is going to use this tech, it's R&M! I'm hoping that someday they make a bike that has

[*]Rohloff E-14
[*]Bosch ABS
[*]Bosch Powertubes (DualBattery, of course)
[*]3.0" tires and fork/dropouts/mudguards for them

Sadly I cannot make an ebike of this complexity myself (yet).

It's the eternal battle between cost and profit. Let me give you an example... I make bikes too (small volume mechanical fatbikes) and we use https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/spank-spike-plattform-pedals-black-490580 on some of our models. Why? Because that's the most beautiful pedals we could find, and we want our bikes to look best. Now, obviously, this wouldn't work for mass production because bike manufacturers like their 60% profit margin while we content with far less.

The point is this: R&M installed a $500-ish (probably even cheaper to source) 27.5" 100mm Pedelec-specific fork instead of installing a $1000-ish (retail) flagship 27.5+ fork on their flagship model. This one is a bit iffy though because I still can't make sense of whether the company founders wanted an MTB or road bike or both.

This one is definitely overpriced. My recommendation for anyone interested in the Delite is to go for the Rohloff model and then upgrade it themselves.

SWeeks
2 weeks ago

Yes, I have that concern as well. My commuter bike is a folder, so I never leave it unattended... it goes inside with me wherever I go. Likewise, I never leave my road bike unattended. I don't generally carry a lock. The GSD would have to be left outside. I would worry about it. I also would worry about vandalism. I'm probably a bit overly paranoid.
One thing I liked about the GSD (and all the Tern electrics I saw) is that the batteries require a key to remove, so at least there's less chance of the battery getting "boosted". :-)

Over50
3 weeks ago

I think in North America there are a number of brands making the fat tire bikes designed for hunters and outdoorsmen. This Surface 604 is just one of several I can recall:
http://citruscycles.ca/surface-604-boar-camo-fat-ebike
Not sure what is offered in Europe for this type of bike but certainly something like the Haibike FatSix ought to be available and adaptable to that use (ie have some rack/cargo carrying options).

Maybe if your approach is all smooth trail, you can adapt a standard cargo bike. The Tern GSD might be good because of its ability to carry around 400 pounds of weight (including rider) and its small size. But it definitely isn't an off-road bike so that would only work with paved or hard packed dirt/gravel trail. The GSD is available in the US somewhere around March 2018.

I'm sure you can get a good lock and chain for locking to a tree but you might also want to cover the bike. I use Baleaf covers for bike storage and they have multiple colors. Not sure how much bike theft risk you have there but if you leave it for extended periods obviously a thief then has the time necessary to defeat a chain.

Over50
1 month ago

The GSD hasn't been released yet (probably around March in the USA). I assume that once released it will be available in Europe. I believe the Vektron is sold in Europe so I would think the GSD would be as well. Some of the Youtube press after it was announced was from the UK.

Dmitri
1 month ago

I wanted to get a GSD but they don't sell them in Europe, so decided to go for a mechanical Salsa Blackborow to be turned into an ebike later.

Over50
2 months ago

I forgot to add that one of my 2018 goals is to try some weekend bike touring perhaps in Ontario.

I get what you're saying on the bike weight. Maybe me buying the GSD is kind of like Homer Simpson buying Marge a bowling ball for Christmas but: I figure that is a big plus of the GSD (one size fits all). And I'll definitely be using if for grocery and Home Depot runs. Yes, the GSD is really heavy at about 70 pounds but I'm hoping with small wheels that she wont have any tipping or dismount issues. One of our weekend routines is to ride our bikes somewhere for lunch and then on the way home load them up with groceries. She currently rides a Tern with 24 inch wheels. So I'll definitely have to carry the bike in/out for use but I'm hoping she takes to it for the usual weekend riding we do and as well provide a good option for a weekend tour. If she doesn't like it I was previously considering a Faraday for her which I would reconsider.

Over50
2 months ago

We have a week to go but given SE Michigan is about to hit the deep freeze, I figure my 2017 riding days came to an end today. I put in 20 miles today just running errands on a gorgeous sunny 35F day.

I'll finish 2017 with just under 3,300 miles. 800+ on the Haibike, 1,900+ on the R&M and 550+ on my human powered bikes. I commuted 61 days in my first year commuting (initial goal was 50 days). I had two significant road rage events but glad I didn't let them discourage me. Both seemed to be triggered by me sitting in a left hand turn lane in order to make a left at a red light. Way more people were courteous and even out-of-their-way nice than were mean or aggressive. I recall passing through a tough neighborhood and a woman waved me through the intersection and yelled "you stay safe baby". It made my day. I also had some great conversations with other folks along the commute route. E-bikes tend to be conversation starters.

I probably lost about 10 pounds and dropped an inch off the waistline. I've had some knee pain that I hope doesn't derail things for next year as I hope to surpass 2017's accomplishments.

61 days commuting is probably pretty weak for you full time commuters but I discovered with a 35 mile commute it takes some time, planning and discipline to pull off on a regular basis. I found it challenging to commute on back to back days. On commute days I had to get up an hour earlier and I'd get home an hour later. It isn't that the commute took me that much longer (just a bit longer than commuting by car) but rather that I had to alter my hours to avoid traffic. I'd generally leave the house at 5:30 a.m. and leave the office at 6:30 pm (getting home before 8 pm). Those are some long days.

I consider 2017 a big e-bike success (for me personally). I hope it was for everyone else and hope to hear your year end recaps in this thread. I think 2018 will be a good year. I'll be buying the Tern GSD for sure (deposit already paid) and with it I hope to get the wife riding e-bikes. Later in the year I'll be looking at a dual battery and/or maybe full suspension bike to replace one of my commuters. Leading candidates are the R&M New Charger, the R&M Delite GT with Rohloff, the Bulls Six50 TR Street and the Haibike SDuro Trekking 9.0. Best of luck in 2018 everyone.

Over50
4 months ago

Thanks Wildtrak. I don't currently do any off-road riding but I'm city commuting on a Haibike XDuro 4.0 Trekking and a R&M Charger (Nuvinci speed pedelec). I'm thinking that if all goes well mid-2018 I'd like to upgrade one of those bikes for a dual-battery capacity commuter. It appears the Haibike Sduro Trekking 9.0 for 2018 is basically the same bike as the XDuro 4.0 (frame and components) but allows for dual-battery with their new rail system and in-tube design. I definitely have my eye on the Trekking 9.0 but I'm also attracted to the Moustache Samedi and XRoads models (hidden battery but not dual-battery). As for a speed pedelec choice I have my eyes on the New Charger by R&M and the Bulls full suspension commuter the Six50 TR Street. Also, I'm pretty certain I'm also going to buy the Tern GSD as a grocery hauler/wife's bike/day tripper. So 2 new bikes for 2018 is the plan: the Tern GSD and a commuter replacement bike (Haibike, R&M or Bulls most likely). For the German brands that sell Bosch powered commuter bikes in the USA, it looks like they use similar specs/components but do you have an opinion coming from Germany, about which brand is better in terms of overall quality, customer service/support and innovation?

Over50
4 months ago

Yes, a lot of interesting stuff. My tentative/early plan for 2018 is to buy the GSD as an additional bike (wife bike, grocery hauler, 1 or 2 day tripper) and to perhaps pickup a new commuter mid-year, most likely as a replacement for either my R&M or the Haibike. For the new commuter I like the Haibike SDuro 9.0 to go dual battery with the in-tube and rail system and to replace my Haibike 4.0. If I replace my R&M, I lean to the R&M New Charger with in-tube battery (and Deore vs Nuvinci) as the leading candidate. As non replacement bikes, if I just add to the collection, then I like the Bulls full suspension commuter and the Moustache XRoads and Samedis.

Over50
4 months ago

Maybe premature to post this but pretty darn certain I'll be getting this bike next spring. I have two human powered Terns (well I have one and the wife has one) and I recently sold a third. I really wasn't in the market for a cargo bike but this bike pressed some buttons for me: fits a wide range of rider sizes (can get the wife riding electric), upright storage, lots of versatility/cargo configuration options, great range etc. I started imagining myself hauling a lot more groceries, Home Depot runs, or loading the bike in my Subaru and taking some long rides over a full day or two. And/or getting the wife taking long rides (never ridden an e-bike) with me using my other bikes. So I had a discussion with my LBS (mostly Trek but a few other brands) as my area only has/had one Tern dealer (20+ miles from my house). It was good timing because the LBS was already considering reaching out to Tern to become a dealer. The LBS sent folks to Interbike and I was told they were very impressed with the GSD. My expressing interest in the bike seemed to help them make their decision (they were interested that I was interested). So I'm waiting to hear from the LBS to confirm that they've finalized the relationship and if a deposit will be required for me to get in on their first order. I think the initial run will be around March followed by another in April or May. I think its going to be a big seller for the Tern folks - just personal opinion.

itsaulgoodman
4 months ago

I'd also go with the Tern GSD, it's a very well thought out and built bike (from looking at specs - I've never ridden it). My wife and I have a Yuba Mundo with a Tongsheng mid drive kit on it, which we are enjoying. But if we were buying new, it would likely be the Tern GSD. The Yuba Spicy Curry Bosch is also a very nice looking bike, but that Tern... I just like it better.

We use our Mundo a lot, we only have 1 vehicle and it's how my wife gets our kids to daycare / school. I also have a separate eMtb which I use for commuting. Sometimes our SUV will sit in the garage for long periods of neglect...

Go for it, you will not regret it! Good luck and enjoy.

Dewey
4 months ago

If you're looking at a 'long tail' cargo bike for putting children on the back, from Yuba I'd suggest the Spicy Curry or an alternative such as the Xtracycle Edgerunner - both have smaller 20" wheels on the back which lower the center of gravity of the cargo deck versus full size wheels. If you are only carrying one child on the bike, a less expensive alternative might be a 'mid-tail' such as the Juiced ODK U500 which has 20" wheels both front and rear and a step through frame, it has a throttle and cruise control but no pedal assist, it's sold out on the Juiced website but you might find one still in stock at one of their https://shop.juicedbikes.com/pages/dealers eg 5 left at http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/cargo-ebikes/full-bikes/juiced-odk-u500-standard-range.html Canadian dealer. Check out https://electricbikereview.com/juiced-bikes/odk-v3/. Here's a https://humofthecity.com/2015/11/14/we-tried-it-juiced-riders-odk-u500/ by a parent. Here are some https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/4awj8b/over_a_month_with_our_juiced_odk_u500s/ from parents in hilly Seattle, and a https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/6hxds9/more_than_a_year_with_two_juicedbikes_odk_u500s/ update.

The Tern GSD is really nice, like the Juiced U500 it has 20" wheels both front and rear, but the Bosch motor on the Tern provides power via pedal assist with no throttle - which one you like is a matter of personal preference. I like to ride along using pedal assist with no throttle, whereas other folks like to use a throttle when starting off. If you'd like both pedal assist and a throttle there are some cargo ebikes that offer both like the RadWagon, or you might look into converting a regular pedal cargo bike with a kit motor from Bafang/eRad, Dillenger, E-BikeKit, or BionX.

piotr feder
3 weeks ago

The 1000x per second sounds nonsense ... the magnet passes the sensor only few times per second.

Voodoo Six
3 months ago

Wow. 2 400wh 36v batteries for $5000? That’s a real world range of about 40-50 miles if you do any speed at all. Cool bike, lame drivetrain.

Ronnie Dylan
4 months ago

Does the Yamaha motor NOT have "shift-detection"?

Chris at Propel
4 months ago

Ronnie Dylan no it doesn’t. Bosch is the only motor with this built in, but some companies have added external shift sensors on other motor systems.

qqq uiop
4 months ago

Close, but no cigar. I won't buy and ebike that has pedal assist limited to 20 mph- period. I ride faster than 20 mph regularly in critical situations, like through busy intersections. This bike is what I want in many ways, but that one limitation is one I won't accept. Too bad that they didn't use the new Bafang Ultra motor- it may not be as good a motor as the Bocsh, but I could learn to fix the Bafang- I'm tired of proprietary over-priced junk like the Bionx I currently have. I refuse to buy anything that I must send back to awful manufacturers who won't honor the warranty.

Dmitri Nesteruk
4 months ago

Tern make good bikes and good accessories. This looks like a really cool bike.

Joe Green
4 months ago

Tern, can you (or Chris from Propel) bring this bike to the Electric Bike Expo in Philly this weekend for demoing? It's hard to get a sense of the GSD's geometry and feel since it's so unique, and not available for demoing yet. Thanks for the great reviews, Court.

Patrik Edelberg
4 months ago

When will be the new Vektron be avaible?

Joshua Hon
3 months ago

Ah yes - the new P9 and D7i models should be in stores by the Spring.

Patrik Edelberg
4 months ago

Joshua Hon yes but for 2017-2018 there were some more models released

Joshua Hon
4 months ago

Hi Patrik - the Vektron is in stock now.

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

It sounds like Q1 2018 but I cannot say for sure, they sent the unit you see in this review out to Chris's shop just for the review and they have had other demo bikes at Interbike etc.

BashfulLion
4 months ago

This is awesome, definitely something my girlfriend and I have been looking for in the ebike realm.

Nuncle Cleent
4 months ago

New ebike rider. Had my Radwagon for 3 weeks and 150 miles. Love. It. With the caboose/added accessory rack/2 pads for my 2 toddler nieces to sit on it was $1950 shipped. They love to go on rides with me. For the same set up with this one it would be bike with 2 batteries ($4800) and 2 yepp maxi’s ($240 each) for a total of $5280.

Things I would love with the Tern: 1. RANGE. I get a little less than 20 miles on a charge now that the weather is around freezing in Missouri. Which means charging at least once a day on my 4 mile commute to work. 2. STEP-OVER. The RadWagon can be a beast to swing my leg over when it’s loaded. 3. WEIGHT. The RadWagon is about 75 lbs with the caboose, and the walk assist isn’t enough to get it up my apartment stairs like I’d hoped. I have to carry it by hand, and it is a monster (that’s not even counting any gear like the heavy lock I carry to keep it from getting stolen around town). The wagon also takes up a lot more room in my apartment than this thing would.

Things I would miss with the Tern: 1. THROTTLE. Twist the throttle anytime on the wagon, and you get the full 750 watts from the motor, which is awesome for starting from stop and also cruising after a long day of work. Sometimes it’s nice not to pedal. The throttle alone is a deal breaker for me. 2. PRICE. I can do a lot with the $3330 difference in price, including a second RadWagon completely fitted out and 1330 snickers bars :)

Love. My. RadWagon.

Hope this helps.

Voodoo Six
3 months ago

Nuncle Cleent -you’re right, at $5000 for this dual battery model - you could buy a Radwagon ($1600), completely strip it, upgrade all of the bike components ($1000), install a bbshd kit ($875) and still have $1500 left over for extra batteries. The only advantage the Tern has is storage size.

Nuncle Cleent
4 months ago

I will definitely give you that. It seems like a Toyota to Lexus kind of comparison, and there is certainly some “you get what you pay for” in this equation :) I was frustrated by how little real-life info I could find on these types of bikes when I was shopping. So I hope it’s helpful. As the experts, I would love to hear some of your comparison info and recommendations. I’ve never heard a “don’t buy this bike” on the channel, even on the super 73 which I could tell you weren’t psyched about. For the record, there would be NO Info on e - bikes without this channel. So THANKS! Just some feedback from a customer. :)

Chris at Propel
4 months ago

Nuncle Cleent thanks for the thoughtful comparison. I would recommend you try one if you get the chance. You might find there are somethings you’re missing as I don’t think it’s really apples to apples here. We’ve built and serviced several Radwagons and I can assure you that this is a very different animal. It would also be great to have you report back when you’ve had the bike for sometime.

Kris Miller
4 months ago

Also, thanks Court (and Chris) for the awesome reviews! I don't even have an ebike (yet) and I watch all of your vids lol. The GSD will be my first I hope! So long as I can get one out to me in Hawaii.

Joshua Hon
4 months ago

Hi Kris - the GSD will definitely be available from your local  Tern dealer on the island.

Kris Miller
4 months ago

Anyone know the US release date? I'm so excited for this bike. I've been shopping around for an ebike for nearly a year now and haven't quite been able to find what I need. This is exactly the bike I've been looking for!

Kris Miller
4 months ago

Joshua Hon Awesome, I'm stoked! Thanks!

Joshua Hon
4 months ago

Hi Kris -  we should have these ready to go by early Spring.

Honky Tonk
4 months ago

Very good heavy duty bike.

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Yeah, this thing was built to last ;)

Fred Horner
4 months ago

I love your reviews but I'd really like to see you load up all of the bikes that come with racks. It would be very informative to see the responsiveness and power when they're loaded with what they claim is a max load.

qqq uiop
4 months ago

Yeah, I was wondering about brake fade for 400 lbs on a steep grade- where I live, think ~1500' el. drop over about 10 miles. Also, climbing that grade with 400 lbs rider/cargo, what would be the real-world battery range, eco mode, light winds?

Pr
4 months ago

There are motorcycles (analogy to bicycles) which drastically change steering/ suspension behaviour when fully loaded and that makes very big difference for the rider (safety, steering). It is very important to test vehicle when fully loaded (this is CARGO bike). Cargo bike should have either 203mm disc brakes on front or two calipers on front 160mm rotor. Without metallic brake pads UNDER HEAVY LOAD one will experience fading when going downhill. There is no idea how this - so called "cargo" - bicycle behaves in turns (frame is flexing) when fully loaded (too much flex can be disturbing). Many important things were missed to point out.

Fred Horner
4 months ago

I've reviewed lots of products in the past (mostly firearms and associated products, not on this name) so I understand the constraints. No worries at all and I look forward to seeing more reviews in the future!

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Thanks Fred, sorry that hasn't been a focus for me. I'd like to do all kinds of things but am often limited by time and the state of the product (like is it a brand new unit being sold or is it a demo that I can actually beat up a bit if an accident happens). In any case, I'll keep trying and appreciate your thoughts

philodygmn
4 months ago

Thanks so much for the test ride on rough street and honest details about tradeoffs.

P. S. New York fixed its bungling ban on walk mode?

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Sure thing, not super clear on the state of walk mode legality in NYC but they aren't allowing throttles. Nobody has ever questioned the bikes I have reviewed there and I have passed many police officers. I think it has more to do with how you are riding. There are clearly illegal e-bikes all over the city and I have never seen them being chased or ticketed by officers during my visits, but that could change for the scooter type models in the future

ZiggZagg11
4 months ago

I really like my RadWagon cargo bicycle for half the money....

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Great to hear, thanks for the feedback! I think Rad Power Bikes hit a sweet spot with that price and design, this one is different and it does some things better and some things worse (like price) but that's okay, nice to have choice :)

rccrashburn
4 months ago

Cannot see considering a $4 grand mini ebike. OVERPRICED!!!

qqq uiop
4 months ago

It may be a reasonable price if it will do what you need it to do. You are not ill-informed, you are asking a reasonable question. From the options available for $4,000, I'm looking at used cars, new/almost new scooters/motorcycles, and ebikes. The ebike choice has to have enough positives/versatility to overcome what ICE motors can do easily, but bikes can't. This one is almost there, but not quite.

Martin Schmidt
4 months ago

rccrashburn No Its Not. You are Not informed good. Thats all. :)

augsburg
4 months ago

Very interesting bike. For a bike like this, it would be great to include a average sized woman trying this out to get their take on how the compact cargo bike is to handle.

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Great point! Thanks for the suggestion, I'll work on getting more guest perspectives and ladies in particular :)

ampoules1
4 months ago

Could you please explain why electric scooters cost less than a lot of these electric bicycles?

Rotormatic
4 months ago

@Jorge Mendoza: The GoGoRo 2 scooter is awesome. I've seen videos on it and the acceleration is phenomenal. But the Gogoro weighs well over 220lbs, travels over 50mph and has no pedals. If used in the USA, it would need to be registered and insured. The driver will need an M1 motorcycle license most likely because its essentially an electric full speed scooter.

Jorge Mendoza
4 months ago

ElectricBikeReview.com what about gogoro. Do you know this scooter? The gogoro 2 is awesome and the whole concept about it and the charging stations is brilliant!

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Many of them use sealed Lead-Acid battery packs that are heavier and don't last as long. They achieve low price points because most don't sell through dealers who offer support and they come with little or no warranty. Economies of scale helps them (one bike, one configuration, one color) but the performance might be limited... hope this helps!

Martin Schmidt
4 months ago

ampoules1 because the electric scooters are mostly China produced crap. Sorry. :)

Seb K
4 months ago

Why do people complain about Ebike prices ?!!! A lot of videos there are comments about price . Don't forget these are mopeds technically . They will be more expensive than an equivalent traditional bike . If you don't like the price find a cheaper version .

MotorheadRedo
4 months ago

qqq uiop I was just watching a Vespa scooter video. They are very nice. If I was in your position and considering a scooter, I would also look at a used 250cc motorcycle. Something like a Honda CRF250L or Kawasaki KLX250S. Kawasaki just brought back the KLX250S for 2018. It was discontinued from 2015 through 2017 in the USA. You can usually find them well below MSRP with low mileage.

Ronnie Dylan
4 months ago

I agree. I've been trying to figure out how to justify the higher prices on the bikes and that was my conclusion: You're really paying for a well-made, hi-tech bicycle FIRST, then with the added, quality motor-assist and the technology behind that, it actually makes more sense. I figure, if the juice runs out you're still left with a high quality bike to ride.

Ronnie Dylan
4 months ago

I agree. I think the manufacturers are simply taking advantage of the minimal competition and cost of development. Seems like the popularity AND competition is quickly rising which means that very soon they will be forced to lower prices to compete.

qqq uiop
4 months ago

I have an ebike and it won't do what I need it to do- it doesn't have the range or the carrying capacity I need for it to replace my old car. There are reasons I haven't wanted to get a motorcycle endorsement (changes to my CDL, which would suck now) but I'm about ready to, as I can get a sweet scooter that works better as a car replacement for equal or less than what I'd pay for an ebike that doesn't.

Martin Schmidt
4 months ago

MotorheadRedo Do you understand that a ebike drive is electric? That a ebike is much more efficent than a moped? No noise and No fuel smell?

Reggie Tricker
4 months ago

Great review of a very interesting bike. More bikes should have the upright storage system, particularly for apartments and cycle sheds where cargo bikes tend to be a bit long to store. Also a nice insight into a Summer's day in Brooklyn!

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Yeah, I think it's a fantastic idea... and it felt pretty solid in that position