Ariel Rider N-Class Review

Ariel Rider N Class Electric Bike Review
Ariel Rider N Class
Ariel Rider N Class Avid Bb7 Mechanical Disc Brakes
Ariel Rider N Class Ebike Battery Charging Port Ignition Key
Ariel Rider N Class Cruiser Bars Twist Throttle
Ariel Rider N Class Ebike Display Panel Backlit Fixed
Ariel Rider N Class 42 Tooth Chainring Bash Guard
Ariel Rider N Class Custom Leather Saddle Sprung
Ariel Rider N Class Custom Springer Fork Cst Maxxis Balloon Tires
Ariel Rider N Class Spanninga Vena Brake Light
Ariel Rider N Class Electric Bike Shimano Altus 7 Speed
Ariel Rider N Class Beige Black Red Cover Colors
Ariel Rider N Class Custom Battery Box Cover
Ariel Rider N Class Ebike Battery Charger
Ariel Rider N Class Electric Bike Review
Ariel Rider N Class
Ariel Rider N Class Avid Bb7 Mechanical Disc Brakes
Ariel Rider N Class Ebike Battery Charging Port Ignition Key
Ariel Rider N Class Cruiser Bars Twist Throttle
Ariel Rider N Class Ebike Display Panel Backlit Fixed
Ariel Rider N Class 42 Tooth Chainring Bash Guard
Ariel Rider N Class Custom Leather Saddle Sprung
Ariel Rider N Class Custom Springer Fork Cst Maxxis Balloon Tires
Ariel Rider N Class Spanninga Vena Brake Light
Ariel Rider N Class Electric Bike Shimano Altus 7 Speed
Ariel Rider N Class Beige Black Red Cover Colors
Ariel Rider N Class Custom Battery Box Cover
Ariel Rider N Class Ebike Battery Charger

Summary

  • A powerful electric cruiser with unique battery box design reminiscing of vintage motorcycles, three color choices for the box, fenders and chain guard including red, black and beige
  • Integrated LED lights by Spanninga, comfortable CST balloon tires with reflective sidewall stripes and a generic flick bell are included standard which improve visibility and safety
  • Powerful 500 watt geared motor, large 48 volt battery and adjustable speed settings (password protected) make this a versatile platform, solid 160 mm mechanical disc brakes with motor inhibitors stop well
  • The battery pack is not designed to be removable for charging off the bike or reducing weight during transport and the weight is a bit higher than a downtube or seat tube pack

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Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

Ariel Rider

Model:

N-Class

Price:

$2,899 (Premium Model $3,099)

Body Position:

Upright Relaxed

Suggested Use:

Neighborhood, Cruising

Electric Bike Class:

Throttle on Demand (Class 2), Moped or Motorcycle (Class 4)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

1 Year Battery, 2 Year Motor/Controller, 5 Year Frame

Availability:

United States, United Kingdom, Germany, Holland, Singapore, China, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Portugal, Austria, United Arab Emirates

Model Year:

2016

Bicycle Details

Total Weight:

62.5 lbs (28.34 kg)

Battery Weight:

7 lbs (3.17 kg)

Motor Weight:

8.37 lbs (3.79 kg)

Frame Material:

6061 Aluminum Alloy, Double Heat Treated T4 and T6

Frame Sizes:

20 in (50.8 cm)

Geometry Measurements:

20" Seat Tube, 26" Reach, 32" Stand Over Height, 74" Length

Frame Types:

High-Step

Frame Colors:

Beige, Red, Black

Frame Fork Details:

Custom Made Springer Style, 10 mm Bolt Skewer

Frame Rear Details:

10 mm Bolt Skewer

Attachment Points:

Fender Bosses

Gearing Details:

7 Speed 1x7 Shimano Altus, CS HG20-7, 11-36T

Shifter Details:

Shimano SIS Index

Cranks:

Prowheel 244A-2, 42T Chainring with Alloy Bash Guard

Pedals:

Wellgo Aluminum Alloy Platform, B087DU

Headset:

Neco 3510

Stem:

Promax MA-525 Adjustable Angle

Handlebar:

Zoom Cruiser, 25" Width

Brake Details:

Avid BB7 Mechanical Disc with 160 mm Rotors, Easy Adjust Calipers, Artek Levers with Motor Inhibitors

Grips:

Custom Hand Stitched Leather with Lockers

Saddle:

Custom Leather, Sprung (Optional Velo Extra-Wide Plush Plus, Sprung)

Seat Post:

Promax Aluminum Alloy, Tapered

Seat Post Length:

300 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

27.2 mm

Rims:

Double Walled Aluminum Alloy

Spokes:

Stainless Steel 13G

Tire Brand:

CST Maxxis, 26" x 2.35"

Wheel Sizes:

26 in (66.04cm)

Tire Details:

Reflective Sidewall Stripe, 22-60 PSI

Tube Details:

Schrader Valve

Accessories:

Paint-Matched Full Length Composite Fenders with Mud Flaps, Paint Matched Composite Chain Guard, Flick Bell on Right, Integrated LED Lights Front: Spanninga Swing 40 LUX Back: Spanninga Vena, Aluminum Alloy Bash Guard

Other:

2 Amp Charger 1.1 lb with Cell Balancing, IP56 Water Resistant Controller, Honeycomb Battery Cell Layout (Avoids Short Circuits and Stays Cool)

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

Dapu

Motor Type:

Rear-Mounted Geared Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

500 watts

Motor Peak Output:

700 watts

Motor Torque:

48 Newton meters

Battery Brand:

Samsung 29E

Battery Voltage:

48 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

11.6 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

556.8 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

4 hours

Estimated Min Range:

25 miles (40 km)

Estimated Max Range:

40 miles (64 km)

Display Type:

Fixed, Backlit LCD Console on Left

Readouts:

Speed, Battery Capacity (5 Bars), Assist Level (0-6), Trip Meter, Odometer, Average Speed, Max Speed (Hold Plus Button to Activate Lights)

Drive Mode:

Twist Throttle, Torque Sensing Pedal Assist (12 Magnet Sensor)

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph) (Up to 28 MHP Unlocked)

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Written Review

The N-Class is Ariel Rider’s top of the line offering with the most integrated aesthetic and a special option to customize the top tube battery box. I struggled to grasp what the bike would be like before seeing it in person, the top part is all plastic (aside from the surrounding tubing), is dyed completely through and is made from durable scratch resistant polycarbonate. This approach strikes a balance between reduced weight, increased strength and a nice aesthetic reminiscent of the popular Sondors bikes but much higher quality. This platform is very strong, fast, offers pedal assist with twist throttle override and even has integrated lights. You get a seven speed Shimano Altus drivetrain (a step up from entry level) and an impressive two year warranty on most of the bike with one year on the battery. My only complaint or question mark is that the battery is not removable. Considering the 62.5 pound (28 kg) weight this would have been a nice feature for transporting the bike as the pack weighs ~7 lbs on its own. Also, not having a removable battery means you’ll have to park the N-Class near an outlet every time it needs a fill-up and that could be difficult if you’re using it to commute.

In practice, the Ariel Rider N and W Class electric bikes I tested were more geared towards neighborhood “fun” riding. They don’t have racks or even rack bosses and you don’t even get a bottle cage mounting point. It wouldn’t be an ideal commuting platform but that’s not what it’s about and frankly, with a backpack on you’d fare pretty well because of the power and range on offer. The motor is a 500 watt internally geared hub mounted in the rear wheel. It’s made by Dapu that’s a solid brand in my experience and the battery is 48 volt 11.6 amp hours for more than a half kilowatt of capacity. It’s arranged to support more power and speed than efficiency but if you ride in a lower assist level there’s no reason it won’t take you 30+ miles. The best features of this bike for me were how it looks, the speed adjustability built into the display (password protected) and how comfortable it rides. With large balloon tires, a custom sprung saddle and cruiser bars (with padded leather grips) the strain of bumps and cracks are significantly reduced. Note that the custom springer fork really doesn’t travel much so if you’re willing to trade style for more comfort then consider the Comfort model vs. Premium I reviewed. It costs less and uses a different (but still comfortable) saddle and comes with a basic oil suspension fork.

Ariel Rider is a company that dates back to 2010, having been rebranded after 2014 as the founding team expanded internationally. Today their products are sold in 26 countries which is very impressive to me. The N-Class is being used by some businesses and fancy hotel chains due to its brandable customizable battery box. The company name “Ariel Rider” is a nod to Ariel Motorcycles, a company dating back to 1870, which was an innovator in British motorcycle design that eventually spun off into cars. Interestingly, the Ariel name has been taken up by a modern sports car producer called Ariel Ltd in much the same way that Ariel Rider uses it. So the point here is that these are all distinct entities, each building on a long heritage of innovation and style, paying homage if you will. Aesthetics are a huge draw with the W-Class and touch points like the custom leather saddle, locking leather grips, color matched fenders, chain guard and sturdy black pedals bring it home for me. I went into this review impressed but curious about the width of the oversized top tube battery bay and came away convinced that it all works together well for a good ride experience… though I wish the key did not have to be left in when riding.

To operate the bike you charge the battery using a nice, light weight 2 amp charger then press the power button on their LCD console for a couple of seconds. It blinks to life and you see speed, assist level and battery level among range and other ride details. From here you can arrow up or down exploring six levels of assist and a level zero which keeps the display and lights going while also allowing for throttle on demand operation. It’s setup very well and really makes you feel like you’re in control of the bike. Having six levels of assist vs. 5 or even 3 as I see on other electric cruisers means that you have more control over top speed when pedaling and as mentioned earlier, you can go deeper by double clicking the power button to adjust other settings and even cap the top speed or allow it to reach ~25 mph for private and off-road use. The bike grew on me and I actually went through a sort of wave of emotions at first expecting it to be more like the Tracker from Vintage Electric Bikes then seeing the plastic and wondering if it would rattle (it stayed very quiet and felt sturdy) then gaining an appreciation for the power but also the control of operation and the finer touches like the saddle and protected wires on the rear light. For the price, it’s a unique looking bike that really puts you in control. There are sacrifices in terms of utility but it keeps you dry and safe which I love.

Pros:

  • Beautiful touch points on the Premium model, the saddle is large and comfortable but also has the Ariel Rider name on it in cursive which looks classy, same thing with the display, I love the wing logo on the battery box and the ability to custom print onto the box for ~$350
  • I like the quick release seat tube collar and front wheel, this helps to reduce weight and make the bike easier to move since the battery is not easily removable
  • I’m a fan of the Avid BB7 mechanical disc brakes because they offer tool-free rotor adjustment, you can use your fingers to twist the little red discs to fine tune the calipers as your pads wear down
  • Depending on where you live it’s wonderful to have full length fenders and the color matching on the Ariel Rider ebikes is spot on, the chain guard also matches and is a sort of custom thin guard which looks great
  • The chainring has an aluminum bash guard on it which also acts as a chain guide to some extent making the drivetrain more robust (useful at higher speed riding and on bumpy terrain), I like that the spokes they went with are a bit larger at 13 gauge vs. 14G given the heavier build of the bike
  • You get three color choices (for the fenders, chain guard and battery box cover) including red, black and beige and the box plastic is scratch resistant
  • I absolutely love the integrated LED lights, both are made by Spanninga and the tail light is wired in so it lights up when you pull the brake levers
  • Nice display panel and control unit, it’s compact but the buttons are large and easy to reach without taking your hand of the left grip, you can get into settings by double clicking the power button and change your speed when the passcode is entered (up to ~25 mph in the USA)
  • The controls default to 0-6 pedal assist and you can override with twist throttle at any level! This is awesome for people who want a more scooter-like experience, the cadence sensor uses 12 magnets making it pretty responsive
  • The Ariel Rider N-Class uses a custom designed hydroformed Aluminum alloy frame that feels solid and all of the wires and cables are internally routed to reduce snags
  • Upgraded Wellgo Aluminum alloy platform pedals offer lots of surface area and feel stable and stiff, the saddle is completely custom with leather imported from Australia… it feels firm at first but should soften over time (you can request the comfort saddle from Velo if you’d like and that comes stock on the Comfort trim level which costs less), even the brake levers are upgraded and have a nice rubberized grip on the leading edge, you get a basic bell to top it all off

Cons:

  • The battery pack is mounted inside a polycarbonate box that isn’t designed to be removable or opened easily… so the battery stays with the bike making it heavier to transport and less versatile to charge
  • The springer fork on the Premium model looks cool but doesn’t offer much travel and adds weight, Ariel Rider offers a more traditional suspension oil fork on the Comfort model but it doesn’t have lockout
  • The battery box is pretty wide (widest towards the head tube) which looks cool like a motorcycle gas tank, but is easier to bump with your knees while pedaling
  • No bottle cage bosses or rack bosses on either the Comfort or Premium models, you might have to bring a little backpack along to carry supplies
  • This electric bicycle is only available in one frame size but the stem is adjustable angle and the seat tube has quick release so it’s actually quite versatile
  • I noticed that the cadence sensor starts quickly but doesn’t always shut the motor down when you stop pedaling (I was told this was a choice made to smooth out the ride with inconsistent pedaling), it alarmed me at first because I thought maybe the throttle was stuck on but you can always cut power by pulling either brake lever so that’s nice

Resources:

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More Ariel Rider Reviews

Ariel Rider W-Class Review

  • MSRP: $2,350
  • MODEL YEAR: 2016

A beautiful, custom designed cruiser electric bike drawing from vintage motorcycle designs with a springer fork, chopper bars and wider top tube. Powerful 500 watt geared hub motor by Dapu paired with a 556 watt hour battery…...

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rich c
2 days ago

For a commuter, I would prefer a class III bike, capable of 28mph. I hardly ever ride that fast, but really often hit 22-23mph. Also much prefer hydraulic brakes, not familiar with the brakes spec'd on the Voltbike. I'd consider that Voltbike a little short on gears, but since it has a throttle, you may be okay. Don't know the size of your children, but loaded down you may like a lower gear that you get with the 7. My Haibike XDURO Trekking S RX has 10. The price is very attractive on that Voltbike, but if I depended on my bike to get to work, I'd want a better class of components. Just a lot of my preferences here, but I started on a cheap Chinese eBike, but really only ride Haibike XDURO (Bosch mid drive) bikes now. Two of my eBikes are over 1600 miles, the Trekking is over 1100 miles. Just a bit of reference for my riding experience. Edit; If you want both kids to ride, look at a GSD cargo bike. You should also look at Thudbuster or Bodyfloat suspension seat posts with the style bike you are looking at.

Elementzs
2 days ago

A 52v battery through a 20a controller is what makes the 'kit' motor rate @ 1000w. well 1040w actually. The 13.5ah battery will be 702wh which even if you just use the throttle will easily get you 15 miles. But it you don't plan on pedaling why don't you just get a mo ped or scooter class vehicle?
Thanks for the info :) I'm only 17 and here in Australia you have to be 18 to get a motorbike.

JohnT
3 days ago

When I was looking into buying a bike, the majority of store owners pretty much said class 1 bikes can go anywhere regular bikes can go. Now that I own one and did my own digging, that's not close to being true.
I genuinely believe that Class 1 and Class 2 ebikes can be ridden almost everywhere a non-electric can in California. There are exceptions, of course, but not many that I’ve heard of.

I went to the OC Parks website and checked the rules pages for about a half dozen parks and saw only one that prohibited ebikes. Granted, I didn’t check them all, but one out of six isn’t bad. Maybe some haven’t updated the site. But you’re right that parks are treated differently from most roads and bike paths, where the new rules apply.

Regarding Class 1 being allowed everywhere non-electrics are, but not Class 2, there are people fighting for that, or something similar, but it’s not a thing yet. I’ve heard that people near us are saying it, too, and it’s just not true. I haven’t heard of anywhere where Class 1 are allowed, and Class 2 are prohibited. I’m not saying it isn’t true somewhere in the US, but I’m sure it’s not common.

JRA
4 days ago

hello, I've been wondering whether a 1000w ebike kit would be sufficient for a 52v 13.5ah battery that I was thinking of getting. I don't really need long range, approx 25km (15 miles). Mostly with throttle. Thank you

A 52v battery through a 20a controller is what makes the 'kit' motor rate @ 1000w. well 1040w actually. The 13.5ah battery will be 702wh which even if you just use the throttle will easily get you 15 miles. But it you don't plan on pedaling why don't you just get a mo ped or scooter class vehicle?

Mark Peralta
4 days ago

very helpful! I also tried eflow E3 Nitro 2013 model. its motor is maxed at 20m. I was able to ride at about 21-24 miles consistently, and was able to max at 26 miles with my best effort. Based on the above info, i am starting to wonder whether class 3 (max at 28m) is 20% to 30% faster than a class 2(max at 20m) for a 17 miles one way commute???
Assuming everything else is equal (tire pressure, low resistance tires, frictional drag, overall weight, pedal effort, etc...) the major factor for top speed is raw power. Raw power does not necessarily mean the power rating of the motor itself but how much energy can the battery discharge and how much current can the controller (bottle neck) allow to pass through without overheating. So the battery size, quality, health, and state of charge are very important factors. Of course, the faster you go, the more power you consume and the quicker your battery drains down.

Simply saying, the more electrical wattage your battery can spit out, the more of it will also be converted to mechanical wattage by the motor.

Addendum:
JamesY, I just passed by an ebike store today and had a chat with the store owner. The owner mentioned that of all the ebikes, the one that he is most impressed is the Bulls outlaw E45, he said it is gutsier than his Specialized Turbo S and can easily reach 28 mph even on a slight uphill. I think you should try it. It is the only hub drive with a built-in heat sink to prevent overheating of the motor.

Mark Peralta
5 days ago

very helpful! I also tried eflow E3 Nitro 2013 model. its motor is maxed at 20m. I was able to ride at about 21-24 miles consistently, and was able to max at 26 miles with my best effort. Based on the above info, i am starting to wonder whether class 3 (max at 28m) is 20% to 30% faster than a class 2(max at 20m) for a 17 miles one way commute???
When I first had my 500 watt hub drive (2015 Izip Dash) I can barely pedal faster than 25 mph on max assist level. Now I only use level 2 assist most of the time, and switch to level 3 to reach to 28 mph. I rarely used the max assist (level 4).

JamesY
6 days ago

very helpful! I also tried eflow E3 Nitro 2013 model. its motor is maxed at 20m. I was able to ride at about 21-24 miles consistently, and was able to max at 26 miles with my best effort. Based on the above info, i am starting to wonder whether class 3 (max at 28m) is 20% to 30% faster than a class 2(max at 20m) for a 17 miles one way commute???

Mark Peralta
6 days ago

Hello!
i have a round trip commute of 34 miles (total). The road is mostly flat. I am looking for a fast class 3 bike that also offer offroad mode, that allows me to ride faster than 28 miles limit.

any recommendations?

thank you

With your kind of application where you ride 34 miles round trip, mostly flat road at speeds faster than 28 mph, that would require enormous energy (30+wh/mile). You will need a 1,000 watt-hour+ battery and you will need a robust hub drive capable of sustained 500+ watts without overheating (a mid drive will just shred your drive train prematurely).

You are right, the ebike that has that potential is the Crosscurrent S with the biggest battery option 1008 watt-hour (42v 21ah)

Or the Stromer with 983 wh battery.

Other ebikes have smaller batteries but they are still capable for the range but you have to slow down a little bit with average speed somewhere in the 22-24 mph to reduce your battery consumption to about 22wh/mile. Or you can bring a charger with you so you can charge up before going back home. These are the other ebike options with smaller batteries.
Magnum cruiser

Ohm

Smartmotion

Bulls outlaw E45

Easy motion Nitro

Magmun Metro plus

Vintage

These are just some of your options. Note that some ebikes will cut the power above 28 mph while other will not.
Source: https://electricbikereview.com/category/speed/

JRA
6 days ago

Hello!
i have a round trip commute of 34 miles (total). The road is mostly flat. I am looking for a fast class 3 bike that also offer offroad mode, that allows me to ride faster than 28 miles limit.

any recommendations?

thank you

This is what works for me. 1000w front hub DD motor with a 52v 10.5ah shark pack, 25 amp controller with cruise control and regenerative assist braking. 20 spd drivetrain with a gear range of 28" to 154" gear ratio.

First let me say that over 28 mph efficiency drops way off due to wind resistance, even in still air. Well it starts to have affect around 23 mph actually but gets exponentially worse and you will suck up the wh/mi even on flat ground like the image shows which used almost the whole charge.

Using a drop bar bike helps cut down the wind somewhat but still handles surprisingly well on single track and all the offload situations I have used it for over the past year from sea level to 11k. The two wheel drive feature works especially well in sandy areas, even with the narrowish >40c tires on 700c i23 tubeless rims @ 35psi +/-.

Also using the proper gear ratio and a decent amount of input of your choosing will help forward momentum, and efficiency and give you as much of a workout as you desire.

Flat ground still will eat up wh's if you have to stop and start a lot. Takes a good amount of energy to get back up to speed, even with active pedaling, but it is too much fun to be half way down the block before the cars from the light start going by you. My commute is a <40 mile r/t with about 1000' total elevation change and my average speed is consistently within this range but there is usually a pretty good headwind when I come home which is what this reflects also.

Interestingly it has taken me longer to do this route in my car than by bike. Mix of 2 lane, 4 lane with big shoulder, and neighborhood stop and go for 7 miles once I hit town. Grid lock just kind of fades out of the picture on a bicycle.

Good luck on your quest. The technology is out there.

1/4
rich c
6 days ago

To be a class III, you can't have a throttle and is limited to 28mph. Any class III is able to be taken over 28mph if you pedal faster. Maybe you don't want a bicycle?

JamesY
6 days ago

Hello!
i have a round trip commute of 34 miles (total). The road is mostly flat. I am looking for a fast class 3 bike that also offer offroad mode, that allows me to ride faster than 28 miles limit.

any recommendations?

thank you

SomeGuy
1 week ago

About me:

The biggest reason for wanting an electronic bike is to help me get over hills. My price range is no more than $2,000 ($2,199 absolute max) (but not including accessories or shipping/tax). I'm 5'11", weigh 190 lbs (with a 10-15 lbs variance over time). Eventually, I'll live somewhere in the outer Boston area and will commute into Boston, (mostly on roads/sidewalks) possibly 6 - 18 miles one way (16- 36 both ways), 5 days a week. This bike will be my primary source of transportation.

I will be riding in the rain and snow. Eventually I’ll either buy or make a rain/snow shield. (which will increase drag). I’d also rather buy snow tires than a fat bike.

Features I want:

Mid-drive with throttle (prefer a trigger throttle, and that the mid-drive and throttle can handle being used together)
Class 3
Riser bar
Rear rack to be able to carry groceries and things.
Removable Display in center of handlebars
high step
Prefer a 28mph bike (the speed demon in me)
Long lasting battery (I’ll charge the battery at work, and eventually will buy a 2nd one)
Durability to handle New England weather (hot and cold temps, rain, snow)

Features I do NOT want:

Twist throttle
Half-twist throttle
Low step
Drop handlebars
Small tires
Small frame
Tandem
Trike
Fat bike

What frame size should I buy? Any suggestions on which electronic bike to purchase with these guidelines? I do understand that there won't be a perfect bike for a low price. Thank you.

Jk512
1 week ago

One thing that is causing quite a bit of confusion for potential buyers are the laws. There's way too much ambiguity in where and where they can't be ridden. To the point, I think store owners haven't been the most forthcoming on this issue. When I was looking into buying a bike, the majority of store owners pretty much said class 1 bikes can go anywhere regular bikes can go. Now that I own one and did my own digging, that's not close to being true. Example being, just found OC Parks has an ordnance banning e-bikes on the bike paths. Sounds like that rule will change eventually but it is somewhat annoying having to verify rules town by town. Mountain bike trails are even more contentious...

rich c
2 weeks ago

The ONLY times I would ride a fat bike now, is in snow or on sand. Everything else, plus tire. What I found interesting when riding the Easy Motion Big Bud Pro with the Bose mid drive, was that my heals wanted to touch the chain stays. I think they used a standard crank arm on the mid drive, then kicked the chain stays way out to clear the fat tire. Looks like the benefit of a hub drive is that you can get a wider bottom bracket and not have that issue. I'm also a speed kind of guy, and love the 28mph class III bikes. I've not found that available on a fat tire bike.

El_Snago
2 weeks ago

So I live in the SF Bay Area, and I want to get an e-bike for when I switch from full time employee/part time student to full time student to save on car costs (not needing a parking permit alone will pay for a good chunk of the bike). College is ~7 miles away, and there's a steep climb right at the end (about 450ft in under a mile). I've been looking at all kinds of bikes, but man it's hard to sort through them all and make a decision. My wish list includes:

- $2-3k, though I might go higher for the right bike
- Class 3
- Removable display (I'll be parking at a school for extended periods, all the detachable stuff will come with me)
- Front suspension
- Pannier mounting points
- More upright sitting style, never liked forward leaning bikes
- Step-over style

Hopefully that's enough information to spark some ideas. I'm also curious how important you folks think things like shift sensing and brake inhibitors are for what will be a commuter bike that includes a hill.

As a starter, I was just looking at this one:
https://electricbikereview.com/izip/2016-e3-protour/
Looks like a good bike, but I'd be worried about the non-removable display, and the above questions about shift sensing and brake inhibitors apply too.

Thanks so much!

Larry Ganz
2 weeks ago

I would narrow my picks by:

throttle -vs- no throttle (more hub drives have throttles)
cost (hub drive can range $700-$2500 on average and mid drives can start at $2500 and go up)
weight (hub drive can be heavier, especially in the rear to limit serious trail riding)
Range (depending on batteries, hub drives can average 20-30 miles per charge normally compared to 2X and sometimes 3X with mid-drives)
Hill climbing (mid drives can be better hill climbers on very steep grades; but, a 750w hub can still do a pretty good job)
learning curve (hub drives have the same learning curve as riding a regular bike)
Complexity (a lot of hub drives are regular bikes with or with out slight frame modifications for battery placements, easy to update, maintain, or replace parts)
Class I or II (20 mph max, 750w max, w or w/o throttle, can fall under regular pedal bike rules)
Class III (28mph max, little more restrictions, can be considered a motor vehicle by some rules)

It might be worth checking to see if you can rent an electric bike with hub or mid-drive for weekend or week? I would go with 750w hub drive compared to 500w. I would also factor in riding the hub or mid-drive with no power. There are sooooo many restrictions against ebike every where you look. You might have to remove the battery and ride like a regular bike if there is a local "no ebike allowed" law like on the hiking/mtb trails in Sedona, AZ.

Good Summary - I would add that a lot (or most) mid-drives have a torque sensor on the pedal assist, while few hub drive have that feature, and the torque sensor gives you a more natural feel to the pedal assist to make you feel stronger while still doing the work to pedal.

Also, with a hub drive and throttle you can still propel the bike if the chain drops or breaks, while I can't name a mid-drive off the top of my head that has a throttle.

We picked mid-drive Trek eBikes for the more natural feeling of the torque sensing pedal assist and the mid-drive for climbing better in a low gear. The lower center of gravity is nice too.

We can typically go 35-75 miles on a charge, depending on the terrain and climbing. (Bosche drive on mine, Shimano Steps motor on the wife's, and my wife's range is farther than on mine at about 50-90 miles.)

Dewey
2 weeks ago

ElectroBike Georgia are a franchise of a Mexican importer with an Atlanta location. Court Rye liked their Magnos folding bike. It is a Class 2 ebike with both pedal assist and a throttle, a 12 magnet cadence sensor, and mechanical disk brakes. It has a 36v hub motor threaded into the 20" rear wheel, this gives it mechanical advantage which is why it appears to be a decent hill climber. Check with them about the weight rating of the rear rack if you're considering mounting a child seat.

ElectricBikeSpecialists in Chattanooga, TN, is a Raleigh Electric and Juiced Bikes dealer. The Raleigh Superbe iE is a Class 1 ebike with pedal assist but no throttle, a 12 magnet cadence sensor, and standard linear pull rim brakes. It comes in diamond frame or step through frame, and has a 48v hub motor threaded into the 700c rear wheel. The battery is mounted on the rear rack which would raise the height of a child seat a couple of inches, this might make it feel a little tippy when occupied so you might want to consider a trailer instead. I ride a pedal bicycle that I converted to a Class 1 pedelec with rim brakes on 700c wheels and I tow a child trailer, I find rim brakes perform fine on hills at normal bicycle speeds even when loaded with a child and groceries, but if you wanted to upgrade you could consider having a bike shop replace them with Magura HS33 hydraulic rim brakes rather than trying to convert to disk brakes.

Two Wheeling Tots is a good website for reviews of child seats and child trailers, and advice about how to check if a bike is compatible with a child seat, also the various features you might want from a child trailer.

Verde
2 weeks ago

SIMI VALLEY, Calif. (Interbike 2017) – No matter the adventure, IZIP, a leader in fun-focused electric bikes, has a bike that will amplify your fun so you can travel further and faster. Whether you’re looking to explore endless miles of unknown dirt roads and trails, change your commute to work by skipping the car ride in favor of your city’s bike paths, or spending your weekend cruising along the coast in comfort, IZIP will enable and inspire you.

Heading into this year’s Interbike trade show, IZIP unveils four new models for 2018 that span a variety of riding styles that integrate modern performance – from pavement to trails.

E3 Moda (MSRP $3,749)
Bold style compliments practicality in the speedy new E3 Moda bike that combines a max 28 MPH pedal-assist German-made Brose motor that’s integrated into the downtube with bright lights and a rear rack for cargo versatility. A workhorse commuter, the Moda efficiently clocks miles on the way to work or while you're getting some extra exercise in on the way to yoga class. With a 504Wh battery, 27.5-inch wheels for fun and stability, disc brakes, and Shimano Deore 10-speed drivetrain, the Moda, simply put, is a practical speedster.

E3 Moda

E3 Moda

E3 Dash (MSRP $2,699)
The reputable E3 Dash is a proven performer that gets you where you need to go … fast. Well known in speed pedal-assist circles as a seriously fun transporter, the Dash flattens hills and takes on long commutes with ease. Sporting a 28 MPH TranzX Center Motor, 700c wheels, RockShox Paragon front suspension fork, robust alloy fenders, and a rear pannier rack, potholes and bumps are no match for the Dash as you comfortably ride in style.

E3 Dash

E3 Zuma (MSRP $2,299)
The E3 Zuma, inspired by the beach lifestyle found at world famous Zuma Beach in southern California, blends comfort with style. The relaxed frame geometry makes it feel like your flip-flops never left the ground, but the bike remains perfectly balanced with a low center of gravity thanks to a downtube-mounted battery pack and powerful mid-drive motor. The Zuma’s long-range 417Wh battery, 26-inch wheels, disc brakes, and lightweight aluminum alloy frame powers weekend surf adventures, as well as mid-week errands around town.

E3 Zuma

E3 Zuma

E3 Peak DS (MSRP $4,599)
With 130mm of RockShox full-suspension, 27.5-inch all-mountain wheels, and Enduro-inspired geometry, the new E3 Peak DS eMTB is built to conquer the toughest terrain – up and down. The super-responsive 6061 aluminum ally frame is built with proven trail engineering to inspire any rider, but it's the best-in-class Bosch Performance CX mid-motor with a 500Wh battery that really amps things up. Magura disc brakes, SRAM NX 1X 11-speed drivetrain, and short chainstays give the Peak DS excellent handling performance for an unforgettable ride on your favorite dirt.

E3 Peak DS

IZIP is also leading the charge in helping preserve our environment with its new, first in the cycling industry Call2Recycle battery-recycling program. Batteries contain hazardous materials, and if dumped or disposed of incorrectly the harmful elements can find their way into our water sources and adds to pollution. IZIP’s program disposes of old batteries in an environmentally responsible manner, and collection sites are located throughout the U.S. and Canada. After collecting and sorting, the batteries are processed and turned into new batteries, stainless steel products, and other products. For more, please check: call2recycle.org.

About IZIP
No matter how you ride, IZIP has a fun, fast, and efficient ebike for you. From commuters, cruisers, and cargo bikes to full-suspension, trail, and touring models, IZIP covers every riding option for leisure, trails, and pavement. With more than 10 years of experience in the ebike industry, IZIP is now a veteran and a leader in ebike technology in the U.S. A division of Accell North America, IZIP is supported by a network of authorized dealers and backed by the Electric Bike Competence Center of North America. For more about IZIP, please check: izipelectric.com.

MEDIA CONTACT: Keith Cozzens, Verde Brand Communications, keith@verdepr.com, 970-259-3555 x122

1/6
Dewey
2 weeks ago

jogger in the bike lane...waiting for a bus standing in the bike lane....wrong-way cyclistsShould an e-bike regardless of class 1-3 just not be in a PBL?...Is 19 mph too fast for a bike in a residential street...Are people just deceived into stepping out in front of a bike w/out thinking about speed just based on assumptions/past experience with regular bikes?

The one section of PBL on my ride home is currently adjacent to utility roadworks so is being used as a de facto sidewalk and the surface has been torn up for a four block section, the PBL was only put in this spring but has been unuseable for the past month and will remain so until it is repaved so cyclists have to ride in the traffic lane. I've encountered Joggers running against the traffic in the PBL and it is frustrating because the barriers make it difficult to ride around them. Regarding misperception of ebike speed at intersections this was reported as a problem in a recent German study (Petzoldt, 2017) that found ebikes have twice the risk of conflict approaching intersections compared with pedal bicycles because of the speed diferential and "other road users might still need time to adapt to this relatively new type of vehicle". The speed difference between ebikes and pedal bicycles is relatively small, another recent German study (Schleinitz, 2017) recorded a mean average speed differential of 2 kmh between pedelecs (Class 1 ebikes) and cyclists but 9 kmh between speed pedelecs (Class 3 ebikes) and cyclists. That's apparently enough to confuse others so I think the advice is to ride an appropriate speed for the road/trail conditions i.e. slow down around people and try to be a PAL (Predictable, Alert, Lawful) approaching intersections.

Source

Petzoldt, T., Schleinitz, K., Heilmann, S., Gehlertb, T. (2017). Traffic conflicts and their contextual factors when riding conventional vs. electric bicycles. Transportation Research Part F: Traffic Psychology and Behaviour, 46(Part B): 477-490. doi: 10.1016/j.trf.2016.06.010

Schleinitz, K., Petzoldt, T., Franke-Bartholdt, L., Krems, J., & Gehlert, T. (2017). The German Naturalistic Cycling Study – Comparing cycling speed of riders of different e-bikes and conventional bicycles. Safety Science, 92: 290-297. doi: 10.1016/j.ssci.2015.07.027

mrgold35
2 weeks ago

I would narrow my picks by:

throttle -vs- no throttle (more hub drives have throttles)
cost (hub drive can range $700-$2500 on average and mid drives can start at $2500 and go up)
weight (hub drive can be heavier, especially in the rear to limit serious trail riding)
Range (depending on batteries, hub drives can average 20-30 miles per charge normally compared to 2X and sometimes 3X with mid-drives)
Hill climbing (mid drives can be better hill climbers on very steep grades; but, a 750w hub can still do a pretty good job)
learning curve (hub drives have the same learning curve as riding a regular bike)
Complexity (a lot of hub drives are regular bikes with or with out slight frame modifications for battery placements, easy to update, maintain, or replace parts)
Class I or II (20 mph max, 750w max, w or w/o throttle, can fall under regular pedal bike rules)
Class III (28mph max, little more restrictions, can be considered a motor vehicle by some rules)

It might be worth checking to see if you can rent an electric bike with hub or mid-drive for weekend or week? I would go with 750w hub drive compared to 500w. I would also factor in riding the hub or mid-drive with no power. There are sooooo many restrictions against ebike every where you look. You might have to remove the battery and ride like a regular bike if there is a local "no ebike allowed" law like on the hiking/mtb trails in Sedona, AZ.

E-Wheels
2 weeks ago

Well, I'm beginning to think its just me and my riding style so I'm running these incidents past you folks for some honest feedback: in my last few commutes I've had more than my normal share of close calls. Few have been with vehicles and almost all have been with joggers, pedestrians, skateboarders and bicyclists. Most of these have been in our new protected bike lanes which is why I'm posting in this thread. One particularly close call was in my residential neighborhood with casual bikers. Perhaps e-bikes will not be allowed in our PBLs eventually but they haven't posted any signage yet and all of these incidents have been on my class 1 Haibike. Since the PBLs are new, and the area has heavier traffic and pedestrian usage, I've been keeping my speed at 15 mph or less.
1. at 6am a jogger suddenly decides to leave the sidewalk and jog in the bike lane - he never looks back to see if a bike is coming (and I was) - he has headphones and doesn't hear me yell - near collision - lock up situation
2. repeat of above at 6pm different jogger
3. young lady crossing against the light looking at her phone - I am approaching intersection with a green light and I keep thinking she is going to look up and yield - she doesn't and also doesn't hear my bell - I lock up and skid - near collision and scared the heck out of the young lady
4. 2 young ladies waiting for a bus standing in the bike lane - after rapid fire on my bell and a shout they panic and like squirrels can't figure out which way to move when they could have easily just stepped onto the sidewalk - partial skid and lock up
5. skateboarder using the PBL pylons for slalom - has headphones - he exits PBL back to me so I go to pass in the PBL while he is in the street - he suddenly reenters PBL - near collision
6. various wrong-way cyclists have caused me to slow and proceed with extreme caution but no serious close calls yet

So maybe better just to not use the PBLs? If I ride in traffic I fear pissing off the car drivers who will think I should be in the PBL. Is 15 mph too fast for a PBL in an urban area/downtown/university district? Should an e-bike regardless of class 1-3 just not be in a PBL?

Non-PBL incidents both this week:
1. Downtown at 6:15 am very little traffic at that hour. I move from right lane to left lane and stop at red light. Next intersection I need to turn left. An SUV pulls up behind and guy starts yelling "hey f...ing idiot get out of the road" etc. At next stop light, since he went around me on the right and then got stopped by a red light, I go up to his window and tap on it "so what's your problem" I say calmly when he rolls his window down. He's yelling about how I can't be in the left lane and I should be on the sidewalk. I tell him state law says I'm entitled to a lane. He continues insults, epithets, cursing and adds "I don't care about no law - get that bike off the road". Driving a luxury SUV Mercedes or BMW with out-of-state plates (NY) gentleman about my age. Ok to use a left lane when preparing for a left only turn? I do it all the time. This is the second person to road rage on me on a low speed street so maybe a bike in a left lane is a greater road rage trigger?

2. My residential street. I'm cruising home at dusk at 19 mph on the class 1 Haibike. I have flashing light, e-bike bright steady light, neon green shirt. Couple leisurely riding on comfort bikes go through stop sign. I did not have a stop sign. I lock up and skid, the woman almost falls off her bike, man starts yelling at me "dude WTF you're flying!...". I said "but you have the stop sign I don't" as I started up again and rode off. Is 19 mph too fast for a bike in a residential street where car speed limit is 25? Thinking about it after, I felt like I should have stopped and made friends (if possible) and just said "sorry but I expected that you would stop since you had the stop sign".

Are people just deceived into stepping out in front of a bike w/out thinking about speed just based on assumptions/past experience with regular bikes? I'd like to think that if I were a car coming at 19 mph they would have stopped for the stop sign. I have been passed by road bikes when I've been riding around 20 mph so 19 mph on an e-bike doesn't seem excessive to me - also given car speed limit was 25 for that section. Me?
No Over50 it’s not you
Your post pretty well sums up my experiences with commuting....although you forgot to mention the dog owners who let their dogs run loose causing a nuisance or the ones who have their dogs on one of those retracting leads with way too much line out so as both the dog and owner block both sides of the path

Over50
2 weeks ago

Well, I'm beginning to think its just me and my riding style so I'm running these incidents past you folks for some honest feedback: in my last few commutes I've had more than my normal share of close calls. Few have been with vehicles and almost all have been with joggers, pedestrians, skateboarders and bicyclists. Most of these have been in our new protected bike lanes which is why I'm posting in this thread. One particularly close call was in my residential neighborhood with casual bikers. Perhaps e-bikes will not be allowed in our PBLs eventually but they haven't posted any signage yet and all of these incidents have been on my class 1 Haibike. Since the PBLs are new, and the area has heavier traffic and pedestrian usage, I've been keeping my speed at 15 mph or less.
1. at 6am a jogger suddenly decides to leave the sidewalk and jog in the bike lane - he never looks back to see if a bike is coming (and I was) - he has headphones and doesn't hear me yell - near collision - lock up situation
2. repeat of above at 6pm different jogger
3. young lady crossing against the light looking at her phone - I am approaching intersection with a green light and I keep thinking she is going to look up and yield - she doesn't and also doesn't hear my bell - I lock up and skid - near collision and scared the heck out of the young lady
4. 2 young ladies waiting for a bus standing in the bike lane - after rapid fire on my bell and a shout they panic and like squirrels can't figure out which way to move when they could have easily just stepped onto the sidewalk - partial skid and lock up
5. skateboarder using the PBL pylons for slalom - has headphones - he exits PBL back to me so I go to pass in the PBL while he is in the street - he suddenly reenters PBL - near collision
6. various wrong-way cyclists have caused me to slow and proceed with extreme caution but no serious close calls yet

So maybe better just to not use the PBLs? If I ride in traffic I fear pissing off the car drivers who will think I should be in the PBL. Is 15 mph too fast for a PBL in an urban area/downtown/university district? Should an e-bike regardless of class 1-3 just not be in a PBL?

Non-PBL incidents both this week:
1. Downtown at 6:15 am very little traffic at that hour. I move from right lane to left lane and stop at red light. Next intersection I need to turn left. An SUV pulls up behind and guy starts yelling "hey f...ing idiot get out of the road" etc. At next stop light, since he went around me on the right and then got stopped by a red light, I go up to his window and tap on it "so what's your problem" I say calmly when he rolls his window down. He's yelling about how I can't be in the left lane and I should be on the sidewalk. I tell him state law says I'm entitled to a lane. He continues insults, epithets, cursing and adds "I don't care about no law - get that bike off the road". Driving a luxury SUV Mercedes or BMW with out-of-state plates (NY) gentleman about my age. Ok to use a left lane when preparing for a left only turn? I do it all the time. This is the second person to road rage on me on a low speed street so maybe a bike in a left lane is a greater road rage trigger?

2. My residential street. I'm cruising home at dusk at 19 mph on the class 1 Haibike. I have flashing light, e-bike bright steady light, neon green shirt. Couple leisurely riding on comfort bikes go through stop sign. I did not have a stop sign. I lock up and skid, the woman almost falls off her bike, man starts yelling at me "dude WTF you're flying!...". I said "but you have the stop sign I don't" as I started up again and rode off. Is 19 mph too fast for a bike in a residential street where car speed limit is 25? Thinking about it after, I felt like I should have stopped and made friends (if possible) and just said "sorry but I expected that you would stop since you had the stop sign".

Are people just deceived into stepping out in front of a bike w/out thinking about speed just based on assumptions/past experience with regular bikes? I'd like to think that if I were a car coming at 19 mph they would have stopped for the stop sign. I have been passed by road bikes when I've been riding around 20 mph so 19 mph on an e-bike doesn't seem excessive to me - also given car speed limit was 25 for that section. Me?

X-Offroad.com
2 weeks ago

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Perfect 50/50 weight distribution with low center of gravity

bob armani
2 weeks ago

Wow this thread took a turn from the intent of the OP. I don't have an issue with any of it, throttle is in my opinion a manual PAS system. I look at it that way from experience; my first ebike was a ProdecoTech with throttle and for whatever the reason I could not ride it without pedaling. I get on a bicycle and I have to pedal, it's weird, I can't ride it like a scooter.

I know just as many people that have home brewed bikes as people with factory bikes and the DIY's I've seen in the wild all have throttle and most are very nicely built. They seem safe, not overly powered and the owners have spent some real money on them, as much or more as I paid for my Evo 29'er. I know one guy that has a 1000 watt front hub bike that looks like a disaster, but I've known him more than a year and he keeps on truckin', thousands of miles a year. Then you go on the internet and it seems like no amount of watts and speed is ever enough. Note: Seems! Taking my real world experience into account and knowing DIY'ers that doesn't seem to be the norm. I can say this, when most of the DIY'ers see my BH and hear what I paid for it they all want one (thanks @Crazy Lenny Ebikes). At least one has called Len wanting a factory bike.

Now that I've owned a bike with torque sensing PAS for 8 months, I want nothing less. I've ridden very nice DIY built and factory built cadence sensing and for me they just don't compare. I'd rather have a throttle to better match my human torque and cadence, but that's more work than torque sensing PAS. I have a 20 mph throttle only mode on the BH, I'm glad I have it just in case, but really never use it.

JR-I agree. I love Lenny's and I have the Evo Jet and have the throttle, but hardly ever use it. Nice to know it is there if I need it though! I have been riding my Evo Jet for about 4 months and am 750 miles in with no real issues. What a great bike and the 350 watt motor gets me going quick and easy every time. I like the way the throttle is set up with having to switch to no PAS to activate. That is my preference to setup including the 'fast' default in all PAS levels from the factory. Easy Motion is a real quality build IMHO. I think my next purchase may be a BH Speed Pedelec class 3 for more speed. I keep watching Lenny's for a great buy!! Ride Safe!

wb6uce
2 months ago

Show the )(*&^%## bike. we know what the breaded guy looks like!

Richard Day
2 months ago

Really ugly and old fashioned .

Maggie Tang
8 months ago

My boyfriend has one of those and heis so much in love with the bike. He said it is one of the fastest and most comfortable e-bike .

Helena Wolfenstein
10 months ago

I bought my ariel rider last month. Really happy with performance. Also i ordered a customized covers. Really love riding and getting all the looks.

Ariel Rider Ebikes
8 months ago

Aaron she bought online from us as there wasn't a dealer nearby her.

Aaron Zane
10 months ago

Helena Wolfenstein nice! did you buy it locally or did you have it shipped?

Leamon Miller
1 year ago

I am saving up to get my first ebike. Can I get some help?

Chemtrail Dreams
8 months ago

Leamon Miller radpower bikes has great financing

Liz Seelbach
8 months ago

i can advise this e-bike as works perfect for me.

EnhancedNightmare
1 year ago

I dig the design very much. Those guys know how to do a good looking cruiser type bike. I especially like the old-school suspension in the front. Reminds me of the bikes from the 1930's.

Lurking Crass Zero
1 year ago

Lovely looking bike. You review a lot of e-bikes mate. Do you have a personal fave?

Fred Brands
1 year ago

These bikes are different from the ones we see here in Holland. These are more fun. I would buy one immediately

Ariel Rider Ebikes
8 months ago

Fred sorry for late reply but we have a warehouse in Amsterdam. So contact us if you looking for one. we can help you about it.

Helena Wolfenstein
1 year ago

schön fahrrad .

Kyle Sherman
1 year ago

sweet bike dudes...please make a dual shock version people

Michael Caffey
1 year ago

I don't see myself buying an electric bike for at least a couple more years, just because of money. That being said, I really appreciate your enthusiasm and detail you put into your videos. I have been watching them for over a year now, just to check out whats new out there.

Thanks!

Liz Seelbach
8 months ago

seems they offer discount now you can check it.

Aaron Zane
10 months ago

Michael Caffey i feel you man. just started saving up for an e-bike and take it slow if you need to. in time, you'll get there. one thing that helps me to keep saving is the fact that some bicycles cost even more than some e-bikes out there. I have a modified Trek urban/touring bike that was roughly $800 new when it was a mountain bike, and i've seen e-bikes as low as $600. i wish you luck!

Lurking Crass Zero
1 year ago

+Michael Caffey You could make do with many of the no-name chinese bikes. They're all the same motor tech etc. That's what I've done. My bike arrives this week ;-)

ForbinColossus
1 year ago

Has nice quality details. Love that the throttle can deliver full power at any setting. Huge feature to me that makes an ebike fun. I am still more a haibike FS MTB preferrer.

HYPERSHADNIC
1 year ago

How long, fast, and does it last from Featherstone to Manassas?

Old Rotten Orange
1 year ago

The red bike reminds me of an early Indian motorcycle

Maggie Tang
8 months ago

Exactly and love that one.

EnhancedNightmare
1 year ago

Spot on!

DrZarkloff
1 year ago

it looks really cool but the gas tank screams cop magnet.

Casey Neistat
1 year ago

As the road bike with drop bars is the most aerodynamic I would like to see more road bikes as I can only see just a few for sale world wide.

difflocktwo
1 year ago

Road bikes are far from aerodynamic. Look into recumbent bikes for true performance.

Casey Neistat
1 year ago

+THE LOST Ref e bikes.

Dean Botton
1 year ago

Until the bike falls over & snaps that key in half

Ariel Rider Ebikes
1 year ago

Hi Dean, thank you for raising your concern on the key location.
Actually even if the bike falls, since the front fork can only turn to a certain angle, the only contact with ground on a side fall would be the edge of the handle bar grips.
So the keys would stay safe at all times :)

EnhancedNightmare
1 year ago

Yeah the key placement isn't very fortunate.

HYPERSHADNIC
1 year ago

Um, are you the type to leave keys in your car too?

minnie saab
1 year ago

the guy with strange accent is really cute !

cigaro
1 year ago

frankly its stupid not to offer a product online in this day and age

Henrijs Rozenkopfs
1 year ago

And even more stupid is to use the leather seats in this day and age...

Mark Elford
1 year ago

Nice machine.