Name: SONDORS Fold XS Review
Item: SONDORS Fold XS
Author: Court Rye

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SONDORS Fold XS Review

Sondors Fold Xs Air Suspension Fork 80mm Travel

Sondors Fold Xs Tektro Auriga E Sub Hydraulic Disc 180mm Rotor

Sondors Fold Xs Wellgo Folding Pedals Alloy Derailleur Guide Stainless Steel Chain

Sondors Fold Xs Shimano 1x7 Freewheel Steel Derailleur Guard

Sondors Fold Xs 750 Watt Bafang Rear Hub Motor

Sondors Fold Xs Selle Royale Gel Saddle Suspension Seatpost

Sondors Fold Xs Cockpit View Slight Swept Back Handlebars

Sondors Fold Xs Control Pad Color Lcd Display

Sondors Fold Xs Ergonomic Locking Grips Shimano Grip Shifter

Sondors Fold Xs Tektro Auriga E Sub Four Finger Levers

Sondors Fold Xs Stock High Step Graphite

The Fold XS is a powerful and capable fat tire folding Ebike from SONDORS, coming in two eye-catching colors and covered by a one-year comprehensive warranty
Highly satisfying to ride thanks to the powerful 750 watt hub motor and excellent cadence sensor tuning, hydraulic braking system from Tektro is smooth, powerful, and very easy to actuate with four-finger levers
Capable of tackling any terrain with CHAOYANG fat tires, air front suspension, and a suspension seatpost, the battery is constructed with high-quality LG 3500 cells and offers a sizeable 672 watt-hours of capacity
Like all fat tire Ebikes, it is still heavy and unwieldy when folded, no accessories are included which helps to keep the cost low but means extra expense and work to add your own, Shimano Tourney is a basic but reliable derailleur

Make:

SONDORS

Model:

Fold XS

Price:

$1,699

Body Position:

Upright

Suggested Use:

Cruising, Neighborhood, Sand and Snow, Trail, Urban

Electric Bike Class:

Throttle on Demand (Class 2)

Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

1 Year Comprehensive

Availability:

United States, Canada, Europe

Model Year:

2020

Total Weight:

68.9 lbs (31.25 kg)

Battery Weight:

7.5 lbs (3.4 kg)

Motor Weight:

10.1 lbs (4.58 kg)

Frame Material:

Aluminum Alloy

Frame Sizes:

15.5 in (39.37 cm)

Geometry Measurements:

Unfolded Dimensions: 15.5" Seat Tube, 27" Reach, 26" Stand Over Height, 34" Minimum Saddle Height, 26" Width, 64" Length

Frame Types:

Folding, High-Step

Frame Colors:

Torch, Graphite

Frame Fork Details:

Air Suspension Fork, 32mm Steel Stanchions, 45mm Travel, Pressure Adjust with Lockout, 135mm Hub Spacing, 9mm Axle with Nuts

Frame Rear Details:

175mm Hub Spacing, 12mm Threaded Axle with Nuts

Attachment Points:

Fender Bosses, Rear Rack Bosses, Bottle Cage Bosses

Gearing Details:

7 Speed 1x7 Shimano Tourney, MF-TZ500-7 14-28 Tooth Freewheel, Shimano Tourney Derailleur

Shifter Details:

Shimano RevoShift Half-Grip Twist on Right

Cranks:

Lasco, Forged Aluminum Alloy, 170 mm Length, 48 Tooth Steel Chainring with Alloy Guide

Pedals:

Wellgo, Plastic Platform, Folding

Headset:

Integrated, Sealed Cartridge Bearings, 1-1/8" Straight

Stem:

Aluminum Alloy, Folding Telescoping Height Base 270mm to 400mm

Handlebar:

Aluminum Alloy, Low Rise, 660mm Width

Brake Details:

Tektro Auriga E-SUB Hydraulic Disc with 180 mm Rotors, Four-Finger Levers with Motor Inhibitors

Grips:

Ergonomic Rubber, Locking, Dark Grey

Saddle:

Selle Royale Gel

Seat Post:

Exoform 625 Suspension (30mm Travel, Preload Adjustment Bolt in Base), Aluminum Alloy, Quick-Release Skewer

Seat Post Length:

260 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

27.2 mm

Rims:

Aluminum Alloy, Double Wall, 36 Hole, Black

Spokes:

Stainless Steel, 13 Gauge Front, 12 Gauge Rear, Black with Silver Nipples

Tire Brand:

Chaoyang, 20" x 4.0" (98-406)

Wheel Sizes:

20 in (50.8cm)

Tire Details:

5 to 20 PSI, 0.4 to 2.1 BAR

Tube Details:

Schrader Valve

Accessories:

Rear-Mount Adjustable Kickstand, Steel Derailleur Guard, Velcro Protector and Magnet Clasp for Folding

Other:

Locking Removable Main-Tube Integrated Battery Pack, 1.4 lb 3 Amp Charger, Folding Frame, Internal Cable Routing, 42 Volt 20 Amp Controller, Rust Resistant Stainless Steel Chain

Motor Brand:

Bafang

Motor Type:

Rear-Mounted Geared Hub

Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

750 watts

Motor Peak Output:

1000 watts

Motor Torque:

80 Newton meters

Battery Brand:

LG 3500

Battery Voltage:

48 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

14 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

672 wh

Battery Chemistry:

lithium-ion

Charge Time:

5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

30 miles (48 km)

Estimated Max Range:

50 miles (80 km)

Display Type:

SONDORS Branded Bafang DCP-18, Fixed, Backlit, 3.25" Color LCD, USB Type A Charging Port on Right Side (5V 1A)

Readouts:

Battery Percentage, Current Speed (With Infographic), Power Meter, Trip Distance, Odometer, Max Speed, Avg Speed, Trip Time, Assist Level (0-5)

Display Accessories:

Independent Button Pad on Left, Buttons: +, i, -, Walk, Settings: Hold + and -, Deep Settings: Hold i and -

Drive Mode:

Cadence Sensing Pedal Assist, Trigger Throttle (12-Magnet Cadence Sensor)

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph)

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Make or Model

Model Year

Body Position

Suggested Use

Frame Type

Drive Mode

Availability

Price Range

$0 (0 €)$18,000 (16,920 €)

Total Weight

0 lbs (0 kg)227 lbs (103 kg)

Top Speed

0 mph (0.0 km/hr)50 mph (80.5 km/hr)

Battery Watt Hrs

0 watt3,456 watt

Frame Size

0 in (0.00 cm)432 in (1,097.28 cm)

Motor Power

0 Newton meters250 Nm

Trusted Advertisers

To run the forums, host the website, and travel, I charge a universal service fee for my reviews. This in-depth review was sponsored by SONDORS. My goal is to be transparent and unbiased with you, this video and writeup are not meant to be an endorsement of SONDORS products. I welcome your corrections, additions, and feedback in the comments below and the SONDORS electric bike forums.

Observations:

SONDORS is a well-known name in the Ebike space, the first SONDORS Ebike was crowdfunded and received an enormous amount of publicity due to the amount raised and the bold claims made of producing an Ebike that would only cost $500. To the surprise of many SONDORS was successful in producing and shipping that first model, and in the years since they have transitioned to a more typical company structure with many different models available and a proper support team.
The SONDORS owner community tends to express a lot more excitement and pride of ownership than most, and one of the big interests of this community is modifying and upgrading their bikes. One of the ways SONDORS is able to keep prices so low is that their bikes don’t include any accessories, and while you can add these on for an extra cost when buying from SONDORS, many owners prefer to add on the exact accessories they want from a third party or to make their own DIY solution. If this sounds interesting, you can find lots of online communities to get inspiration and help from other owners!
The Fold XS is a Class 2 electric bike which means the motor can be activated by the thumb throttle on the right grip, or by pedal assist via the 12-magnet cadence sensor. The motor is powerful enough to handle Class 3 speeds of 28mph, but Ebike rules in most locations will require you to disable the throttle and only use pedal assistance at that speed. SONDORS support can help with making these modifications and I believe they also provide Class 2 and Class 3 stickers with the Fold XS when it is shipped

Pros:

SONDORS recently expanded their warranty to a full year of comprehensive coverage, a welcome change as their previous warranty was only good for 30 days
The Fold XS is a large folding bike with a rock-solid frame, it feels stable and capable at high speeds and while riding off-road
Beautiful appearance, SONDORS has done an excellent job with cables being internally routed and bundled well, both paint options are eye-catching and blend well with component colors and SONDORS branding
Ride comfort is excellent thanks to the full suspension setup, up front is an adjustable air suspension fork with 80mm of travel, and in the rear the suspension seatpost adds another 30mm of travel. This setup combined with the 4″ fat tires from CHAOYANG makes for a great ride experience whether you are cruising on asphalt or tackling rough terrain, and you can drop the tire pressure down to 5psi for sand and snow (check the video review for a beach test!)
Continuing with ride comfort, you also get locking ergonomic grips and the gel saddle from Selle Royale, and the seating position is relaxed and upright, even for someone as tall as me at 6′ 3″. SONDORS didn’t skimp on the length of control cables so you can raise the telescoping stem fairly high up
Fantastic stopping power from the Tektro Auriga E-Sub setup, these are Ebike-specific hydraulic disc brakes with 180mm rotors in the front and rear, plus the large four-finger levers provide great mechanical advantage making these brakes extremely easy to actuate
A better-than-average charging experience thanks to the 3 amp charger which will charge faster than the 2 amp chargers that are standard for most Ebikes, and the charge port is positioned high up near the front of the frame where it is less at risk for damage when charging while the battery is still inside the bike frame. This is compared to some Ebikes that have the charge port located near the crank arms. Of course, you can also remove the battery from the frame and charge it off the bike, recommended for convenience and battery longevity if you store your Fold XS outdoors or in your garage
Simply massive amounts of power from the 750 watt Bafang rear hub motor, this is already a powerful motor and on the Fold XS it receives a mechanical advantage from the smaller-diameter 20″ wheels. This motor is able to tackle sand and steep hills without breaking a sweat, and the burst of power from activating the throttle is very satisfying
This Ebike uses a cadence sensor for activating pedal assistance. On most Ebikes, this means a delay when starting pedaling, but to my surprise, the Fold XS responds almost instantly! SONDORS has really found a sweet spot with their sensor tuning, with the motor kicking in almost as quickly as it does on a torque-sensing setup
The battery is high capacity at 48 volts and 14 amp-hours, secured and protected inside the main tube, and built with quality LG 3500 cells
SONDORS has upgraded the chains on all of their 2020 models to use stainless steel chains, great for durability and rust resistance – especially if you like to ride on the beach!
The display is a large color LCD with good informational readouts and the advanced settings menu is much easier to navigate than most displays, I also appreciate the throttle configuration which allows for full-throttle power form any assist level. This display is not removable but it is adjustable angle so you can find that sweet spot to reduce glare. As a nice bonus, the display has a USB type A charging port on the right side, and it’s a full amp of power (meaning it can charge iPhones as well as Android)
A fairly obvious point for a folding bike, but… it does fold! Folding is great for both portability and for storage, and you also get a velcro protective cover for the front fork to keep it from getting scratched while folded, as well as a magnet mechanism to help hold the bike shut in the folded position
Shimano’s RevoShift half-grip shifter is intuitive to use and shifts smoothly, making it easy to shift a lot of gears quickly. This is a 1×7 setup using Shimano’s basic but reliable Tourney derailleur, a steel derailleur guard protects both the derailleur and the motor cabling, and a double-sided alloy bash guard keeps the chain securely on the chainring (as well as keeping clothing and debris out of the chain)
The kickstand is rear-mounted which prevents “pedal lock”, something that occurs with center-mounted kickstands that can become locked up with the crank arms. It is also adjustable length with a wide base that helps out when parking on soft terrain

Cons:

You only have one frame size to work with which means this may not be a good fit for some riders. The telescoping stem and quick-adjust handlebars make it easy to find that sweet spot, and even as a tall rider I found the fit to be pretty comfortable… with the exception of not being able to get full leg extensions, but I haven’t found a folding bike yet that can accomodate my long legs
SONDORS is direct-to-consumer with no dealers, so your only option is to order online without being able to test-ride first, and you will have to do at least some assembly to get ready to ride… which can be daunting if you don’t have the required knowledge or tools. Of course, this means that you save a lot of money without the dealer overhead, and there are numerous online communities of SONDORS riders that can offer advice for both first-time setup and maintenance, as well as SONDORS official support
SONDORS ships all of their bikes without any additional accessories such as lights or racks, the idea here is that this keeps the cost as low as possible, and allows riders who do want accessories to get the exact ones they want. I think that is a good way to do it, just keep in mind that you’ll have to pay extra for any accessories you do want, and you lose out on the convenience of having your lights wired into the main battery, unless you want to dive deep into modifying your Fold XS… which you just might want to do as that is very popular with SONDORS bikes! The Fold XS does have plentiful mounting points for fenders, racks, and even bottle cages so it will be easy to add all sorts of accessories
The CHAOYANG tires feel amazing to ride on, but they don’t include any puncture protection, and I highly recommend adding some of your own since fat tire flats on an Ebike are not pleasant to repair! The tires also don’t have any reflective striping on the sidewalls, which is a minor thing but I would like to see some for safety
The cadence sensor is not sealed which leaves it more vulnerable to getting bent or magnets knocked out, keep in mind this is a pretty rare occurrence but something to keep in mind and check on if your pedal assistance is ever behaving strangely
The gearing range on the freewheel is 14-28 tooth which is a fairly small range and limits how steep of hills you can tackle while pedaling, of course, this is alleviated by the massive amounts of power from the 750 watt motor. The Tourney derailleur is entry-level from Shimano and not as fancy or smooth as some of their higher tier options, but it’s still a solid-performing derailleur and I think it fits well for the Fold XS use case
Very large and heavy at 68.9 pounds, and fairly difficult to maneuver when folded. Keep in mind that this is a pretty standard weight for a fat-tire-folder, and the included magnet mechanism helps with maneuvering while folded… but this still isn’t an Ebike that you can fold up and take on the bus or subway
The display is not removable which means possible damage if you leave it out in harsh weather or locked at a bike rack, and it can be difficult to see some readouts in bright sunlight. You can adjust the angle which helps to alleviate this

Useful Resources:

SONDORS Official Website

January 29, 2024 (10 months ago)

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Angel Yulan

4 years ago

Hi there, Tyson

Can you tell me if the XS FOLD E BIKE model can be accommodated with a bike rack in the rear, front headlights, and brake lights.

Thanks

Court

Hi Angel, I do think that some bike racks could work with the SONDORS Fold XS, but I haven’t tested it personally. You might need a seat post rack clamp like one of these and then a fat rear rack to fit the wider tires. As far as lights, I don’t think that you can get ones that are wired in to run off of the battery for this model (without some custom work). Maybe you could get some rechargeable ones like these that would work. You just might want to take them off each time you park in a public rack, so they don’t get stolen. Hope this helps!

blobby

They sell the rear rack and bag as accessories on Sonders site, I noticed it on their UK/EU site. Some other accessories too.

Ted Penman

Hey there,

I’m looking to purchase either the Radmini or the Sonors Fold XS. In your opinion, which bike did you like best and why?

Hmm, great question there. I really like the style and culture that SONDORS has cultivated. If it appeals to you, and you like the paint job and little upgrades on the Fold XS, then go for it! My favorite parts about Rad is the accessories and cross compatibility of the battery packs. I feel like they are more methodical in how they develop systems and a company vision. SONDORS is more spontaneous and passionate… like their YouTube video where the founder is saying “we’re going to disrupt this space!” and how their first kickstarter really shook things up. It’s great to see. For me personally, I have friends and family who bought RadRovers and I feel like I could borrow a battery pack or share their rack for a trip etc. and that’s pretty cool. I also feel like they hold their resale value well because the company does more ads and has been around longer. It’s a close call and I think both bikes could be great, so I hope these perspectives help you make a decision and get out for some fun rides :D

Thanks for your honest opinion… I wasn’t exactly honest =) I have a rad mini but wanted to keep the question neutral as far as you not knowing it, my apologies. I coulndn’t agree more with you on the philosophy of Rad Power bikes. I believe in their vision and leadership. As you stated though, Sonders is and will continue to shake things up and be very innovative. For me, I love Sonders style and their progressive use of efficiency where they can with their technology ie. no cables and a hidden battery.

I can’t argue that they both have something to offer and is an individual choice. Sonders will def be my second purchase and will decide which to keep… Thanks for the feed back and ride on!

Tyler

The listing for top speed in this review states “capable of 28mph with modification”. Could you elaborate more on that? Is it “unlockable” through advanced settings? Is that for class 3 pedelec? Or throttle only?

Tyson Roehrkasse

Hey Tyler, I did some more digging into this and I don’t think the Fold XS can actually be modified for 28mph speeds… at least not easily. Technically the battery and motor are plenty powerful enough to handle it, although high speeds can be a bit more difficult to achieve with the smaller fat tires. Anyways, it doesn’t appear that there is an easy way to do this in the settings. With that said, it’s relatively easy to mod SONDORS bikes for all kind of things, so you may be able to find more asking on our SONDORS forums.

I’ll update the review accordingly!

Jamal

Thank you for your incredibly detailed reviews on this website. They’re priceless in this age of not being able to check things out in person. I’m buying my first electric bike, and I’ve got my decision narrowed down to the Radmini Step-thru 2 ($1499, free shipping) versus the Sondors Fold XS ($1699 plus $99 shipping). I know Ted Penman above asked this question, but I’d like to hear more about the ride quality difference between the two bikes from an expert who has tried riding both bikes. The XS has hydraulic brakes, an air suspension fork, suspension seatpost, and 4.0″ wheels; the Radmini has mechanical brakes, a spring suspension fork, no seat suspension, and no longer comes with 4″ Kenda wheels (instead now delivered with 3″ CST Big Boat per their website). Based on these differences, you would think the Sondors Fold XS is a better ride than the Radmini, but sometimes specs aren’t everything. Sometimes it’s just the way it all comes together and how it feels when you ride. I’d appreciate your expert insight on the ride experience, comfort, how the power felt in each bike, and whether the higher specs on the XS are truly good components or just gimmicks to fool us novices who don’t know as much about bike parts? I honestly have no idea whether a spring suspension fork vs air suspension fork really makes a difference in the end?

Hi Jamal! Great questions… I (Court) reviewed the RadMini while Tyson covered the Fold XS, so unfortunately it’s difficult to answer your question perfectly. You’ve done an excellent job listing out the mechanical differences! Perhaps the deciding factors will be a combination of aesthetics and long term ownership. Rad has a great reputation and should be easy to resell. They also use the same battery pack for each of their products which ensures cross compatibility. The spring suspension will be very reliable, and still fairly adjustable with preload and compression/lockout while air pressure can be changed and sometimes air shocks weigh less than spring. The hydraulic disc brakes are an awesome upgrade (probably the most meaningful for me) that SONDORS brings, but the suspension seatpost is fairly generic and could be added inexpensively to the RadMini (or you could buy the nicer SR Suntour NCX directly from Rad for $100). Tires is another big question mark. Do you plan to ride off road? Are you a fan of knobby tires vs. smooth? They will be louder and less efficient but also more comfortable and the higher air volume brings shock absorption and wider tires mean better float on sand and other soft terrain. If you’re more of an urban rider and like the Rad accessories, then that’s a great choice, but the Fold XS is also a great product. I hope this little overview helps you out :)

Thanks for your insight Court. Only other thought I wanted to ask you was about the motors. Tyson indicated the Sondors bike has a nominal output of 750W and peak of 1000W. Is this the same on the Radmini? Some forums suggest Rad’s motors actually offer 500W nominal output and the advertised 750W is their peak output?

Pablo Casco

Great detailed review. I would agree with Jamal’s comments above, for for us buyers, this type of information is valuable and helps us to have a different perspective on a product that haven’t seen in person. I have done some research on this bike and the Aventon Sinch. They both have esthetic appeal, both seem to be well built with quality products. However, I am walking away from Aventon because I noticed one advertising flaw. They promote their bike “750W”, but in reality they are using a 500W motor with a potential peak of 750W. If you go to Sandors and Rad, it will tell you, you are getting a Bafang 750W (with a possible peak of 1000W:Sandors) which should be the norm for advertising. When companies start with marketing gimmicks like that, you lose interest and may give the wrong impression of the company. I am still looking for the 750W comparative to Sondors, I have looked into the RadMini, one thing I don’t like is the 3-inch wide tire, also the open visible battery, very noticeable that is part of the first-gen bikes. Furthermore, I think is more suited for city cruising and light trails, where the Sandors is more for open/off-roading, which is more appealing to me.

I do have a question, do you guys know what the clearance pedal-to-ground is for the Sandors? I will suggest as a recommendation to include in the detail specs. That will give people an idea for those seeking do more aggressive trails, given, these are not “full” mountain bikes, but still a good piece of information to have.

Thanks,
Pablo

Hi Pablo! That’s great feedback, both about advertising ethics and the crank arm length so you won’t get pedal strikes. I’ll keep that in mind going forward. It sounds like the Sondors will be a good fit, and the taller tires should provide some clearance for the standard 170mm cranks that come with.

Ron

Very few reviews and product specs provide max cargo weight. Especially for bikes which may accommodate a passenger. Two adult men would need 400 lbs min.

Rick

Put me on your mailing list, thanks.

Hi Rick, we don’t have a mailing list here at EBR. If you want to be on the SONDORS mailing list, I suggest visiting their official website here and signing up :)

John

Can anyone explain why sondors choose a 48 tooth steel chainring instead of a 52 like the other foldable ebikes?

Great question, John. No, I cannot explain that. I see that some companies lean towards a slower cadence because they prefer that ride style (or have strong motors that tend to go faster so the low gears are less necessary or useful). The fact that this one also has a very limited 14 to 28 tooth freewheel means that there are fewer cadence options in general, so maybe they leaned towards “comfortable at mid and high speed” vs. “comfortable at low speed but gets outpaced at 20mph” that’s my quick guess. It may be possible to replace the chainring post-purchase if you prefer lower gearing.

Yahel Davila

Hello,

I noticed that you listed the seat post diameter at 27.2 but I have read in some forums that it’s actually 30.9. Can you please clarify this?

Hi Yahel! We record what we see on our demo bikes, but sometimes the hardware changes mid-season or each year. Sometimes, it can even be different depending on frame size. I cannot speak to the most up to date SONDORS Fold XS models, but I bet you could ask SONDORS directly via email before you make a buy. I’d love to hear what you find out! This is why we have open comments and the forums, so people can fill in the gaps. Our reviews are like snapshots for exactly what we saw at a specific time and we try to corroborate the writing by also saying and showing with video and photos :)

Jon Rego

First – great reviews! I am torn between the Aventon Sinch and the Sondors Fold XS. The reason I like the Sinch is that there is a local dealer who is offering free tune-ups for a year and he doubles the warranty to 2 years, plus they will assemble it and I can get delivery within 2 weeks.

I like the Sondors XS because they offer hydraulic brakes, a color screen, more suspension, a more powerful motor, etc. The one thing holding me back on the Sondors is that it is a mail-order bike. I live in northern California and to get warranty service or if something goes wrong, I will not be able to take it in to a local shop, since their company is in southern Cal – plus the fact that I have to assemble it.

In your opinion, my hesitance about it being a mail-order bike, possible warranty problems, and bike assembly – are these valid concerns?? Thanks!

Hi Jon! Unfortunately, yes… I think those are valid concerns with any ebike. It’s good that you’re thinking about them. The problem is that very few stores sell folding fat tire ebikes (at least that I’m aware of). I’d call around to local shops just to check, then make a decision based on what you read online. SONDORS delivers a lot of value at this price point and seems to have decent quality. They’ve been around long enough to have replacement parts for sale on the website and most regular bike shops can help with tires, chains, derailleur etc.

Conrad

3 years ago

Hello, great review. I’m torn between the XS Fold and the MXS. I’ll be using the bike to commute on paved trails to my job about 8 miles. I’ll be driving my Scion tC commuter car half way so I will have to put the bike in the hatch which is pretty spacious. I think I could get the MXS in it. For commuting which bike would be most comfortable in your opinion. I’m 5’10” 185 lbs.

Hey Conrad! Similar stats for me (this is Court by the way). I’m 5’9″ tall and almost always prefer full sized wheels and non-folding frame vs. the smaller 20″ on folding models. Now, the XS is a folding fat tire ebike, so the effective diameter is more like 24″ and you get increased air volume. Still, the nicer fork and plus sized 3″ wide tires on the MXS are definitely my preference. That said, the front wheel isn’t quick release, and the bike is fairly heavy with extra steps to remove the battery pack, so just go easy when lifting. The folding XS might fit a little easier, but it’s also heavy. I feel like the tricky part might just be maneuvering the full sized frame into your car even if weight was exactly the same :/