e-RAD 1000 Watt Mid Drive Conversion Kit Review

E Rad Bbshd Electric Bike Kit Review
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Geared Mid Drive
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 48 Volt Battery Pack
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Trigger Throttle Display Lcd
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Bafang Display Panel
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Chainring Adapter
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Display Panel Closeup
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Inline Shift Detector
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Motor Casing Bottom
E Rad Bbshd Electric Bike Kit Review
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Geared Mid Drive
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 48 Volt Battery Pack
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Trigger Throttle Display Lcd
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Bafang Display Panel
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Chainring Adapter
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Display Panel Closeup
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Inline Shift Detector
E Rad Bbs Hd 1000 Motor Casing Bottom

Summary

  • One of the most powerful electric bike motors available, ideal for heavy duty cargo hauling, blurs the line on legality shipping with 20 mph top speed limit but unlockable to ~40 mph for off-road use
  • Offers physical shift detection compatible with cassettes, internally geared hubs and CVT systems like NuVinci, this reduces drivetrain wear on the chain, sprockets and derailleur significantly
  • Three battery size options (all run at 48 volts) with premium Samsung, Panasonic or Sanyo Lithium-ion cells, solid one year comprehensive warranty on all parts
  • Choose from trigger throttle or twist throttle (for left or right bar), you can wire in lights, the system lets you override pedal assist with the throttle and the display looks great but doesn't swivel and isn't removable, as with most aftermarket kits the wires use zip ties to attach and may add clutter to the frame
Warning, in some configurations this electric bike kit is classified as a moped or motorcycle and may not be ridden on cycling trails or paths. It may require licensing, insurance and lights when used on public roads.

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National eBike Shops

Electric Cyclery
900 N Coast Hwy
Laguna Beach,  CA  92651
Propel Bikes
134 Flushing Ave
Brooklyn,  NY  11205

Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

e-RAD

Model:

1000 Watt Mid Drive Conversion Kit

Price:

$1,195 (Up to $1,295 for 100 mm, BB86, BB90, BB92 and BB95 Bottom Bracket Sizes, Batteries $695 to $1,095 Additional)

Suggested Use:

Cargo, Commuting, Mountain, Neighborhood, Sand and Snow, Trail, Urban

Electric Bike Class:

Moped or Motorcycle (Class 4)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

1 Year Comprehensive (1,000 Charge Cycles)

Availability:

United States, Canada, Europe, Australia, Worldwide

Model Year:

20152016

Bicycle Details

Battery Weight:

6.85 lbs ( 3.1 kg ) (Optional 7 lb for 11.6 Ah Pack)

Motor Weight:

11.6 lbs ( 5.26 kg )

Cranks:

Aluminum Alloy, Square Tapered

Brake Details:

Mechanical Levers, Integrated Motor Inhibitor

Grips:

Flat Rubber

Accessories:

Race Face NW Chainring with Custom Chainring Adapter, Optional Universal Brake Sensor for Hydraulic Brakes, Optional Additional Charger $75

Other:

Physical Shift Sensor (Derailleur, Geared Hub or Continuously Variable Transmission Specific), Integrated Controller with Upgraded Mosfet Transistors for Durability, Custom Firmware and Software for Shift Sensing, Upgraded Bearing Hardware, Locking Removable Battery Pack, 25 Amp Integrated Controller, LED Charge Readout on Battery, Replaceable Fuse

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

e-RAD (Assembled by Bafang to Custom Specifications)

Motor Type:

Mid-Mounted Geared Motor
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

1000 watts

Motor Torque:

160 Newton meters

Battery Brand:

Samsung, Panasonic or Sanyo Depending on Size

Battery Voltage:

48 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

14 ah (Optional 9 Ah or 11.6 Ah)

Battery Watt Hours:

672 wh (Optional 432 Wh or 556.9 Wh)

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium Cobalt Magnesium Oxide (LiNiCOMnO2)

Charge Time:

3.5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

25 miles ( 40 km )

Estimated Max Range:

60 miles ( 97 km )

Display Type:

Fixed Monochrome Backlit LCD

Readouts:

Speed, Battery Capacity, Assist Level (0-5), Average Speed, Max Speed, Trip Distance, Odometer, Time

Display Accessories:

Independent Button Pad, Female USB Port

Drive Mode:

Cadence Sensing Pedal Assist, Trigger Throttle, Twist Throttle (Optional Left or Right Trigger Throttle, Optional Left or Right Twist Throttle)

Top Speed:

20 mph ( 32 kph ) (User Configurable ~40 mph)

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Written Review

The e-RAD BBS HD-1000 or “BBSHD” for short, is a 1,000 watt centerdrive electric bike motor that strongly resembles the older BBS01 and BBSO2 motors manufactured by Bafang but this one offers a big step up in terms of power and speed. The casing has actually been redesigned and while it’s still round and black with little fins extruding from the metal casing (likely for heat dissipation) the weight has increased about two pounds from the 750 watt version offered by e-RAD (the next step down in terms of power). Technically, in many parts of the US and around the world this BBSHD motor would not classify as a “low speed electric bike” and would therefore only be permissible off-road or if you added turn signals and purchased license and registration. Some states, like California, have historically allowed motors up to 1,000 watts but I’m not super well versed in all of these regulations and they tend to evolve, so if you’re concerned… best to look into it or weigh your options. Lectric Cycles (makers of e-RAD) have an entire line of kits similar to this one ranging from 350 watts to 750 watts and they all ship with 20 mph top speed limiters (just like the BBSHD) but are adjustable by the end user so it’s up to you to decide how you want to ride. So… if you’re someone who plans on riding a cargo bike that’s loaded with gear… the extra copper winding in this kit could be a big help. Or if you’re planning to go off-road on private property or in a national forest and want the extra speed just for the thrill of it, this might be one of the best options.

One goal of electric bike kits is to extend the use and feature set of existing hardware… maybe you already own a bicycle that’s aesthetic appealing or comfortable to ride, maybe you’re hoping to “reuse” existing hardware in an effort to save money or maybe there simply isn’t a purpose built electric bike in existence that matches your needs. Bicycles have been around since the 19th century but most modern bikes adhere to standard wheel sizes, bottom bracket layouts and handlebar designs. Now, there are still dozens of variables within this “common feature set” but sadly, only a small handful were compatible with electric bike kits and mid-drives like the Bafang 8Fun BBS02 mentioned earlier. What does it all mean! In short, you may have had very limited options to convert your bike and the products that were available often had to be ordered from China and didn’t come with great instructions, support or warranty service. Furthermore, the BBS02 has suffered from firmware that wasn’t very refined and could burnout the motor more easily (especially under high voltage). Still, this was one of the most popular kits in 2013/2014 and many people opted into the adventure of buying, assembling and adapting their ride style to make it work. What the e-RAD kits from Lectric Cycles offer are an evolved version of this earlier product. It’s still assembled by Bafang in China but follows the strict specifications set out by the US designers and engineers who have added better bearings, a tighter axle, more durable mosfet resistors, a shift sensing signal wire and optimized firmware and software that keeps it all running smoothly. To top it all off, while the standard Bafang BBS 1000 is only adjustable to fit 68 mm to 73 mm bottom brackets, the e-RAD variant can be custom engineered to fit press fit bottom brackets like those commonly found on Trek and Giant bikes for BB86, BB90, BB93 and BB95 sizes and even the extra long 100 mm size found on many fat bikes (like the Origin8 Scout XLT in this review).

Whenever you’re converting a bike to electric (especially with a mid-drive that’s high powered like this) it’s important to consider the physical limitations of your frame and your own weight (and cargo weight). Most bicycle frames come with a “max load” rating but that might not account for added bottom bracket forces transmitted by a motor. I can’t really help you much here, proceed with caution. This kit is powerful and can be unlocked to go quite fast (hitting the upper 30’s when using high gears). Not only can it become a legal liability if operated irresponsibly, it could also result in serious injury to yourself or others. Please keep the countless other enthusiasts and individuals like myself who are building a career in ebikes in mind when bending the rules and most of all ride safe. Keep an eye on your spokes and make sure they don’t start coming loose, also pay close attention to your brakes and consider hydraulic disc brakes for maximum stopping power. In general, I’m a big proponent of mid-drive ebikes because they keep mass low and centered on bicycle frames. They reduce unsprung weight which improves rebound performance if your bike has a rear suspension or front suspension like the fat bike in this review. Centerdrive units improve climbing power and efficiency by leveraging a gear cluster or continuously variable transmission like a NuVinci in the rear.

The motor unit mounts directly to the bottom bracket of your bike and comes with two y-plates for strength, like torque arms for the motor… It’s black, relatively small and surprisingly quiet during operation. During my test rides I found that noise increased as I shifted to lower gears and had the motor spin faster. Built right into the motor casing is a controller that has been customized by Lectric Cycles for smooth starts. As mentioned earlier, the bearings inside have been upgraded along with the mosfets which are switches that control electromagnets for acceleration. When compared side by side with a standard 8Fun 750 watt BBS02 unit (and likely the new BBSHD) this motor feels similar but benefits a lot from smoother starts and shift sensing which should result in longer lifespan for the system and your bicycle drivetrain. This is one of the only mid-drive systems I know of that even offers throttle mode and I love that it overrides pedal assist because that gives you a sense of control and maneuverability that’s perfect for the trail. I often ride in the lower levels assist and then pull the throttle for extra juice when climbing short hills. For those who plan on using this kit for off-road with steeper conditions e-RAD offers several chainring options from 34T, 36T, 38T, 40T and 42 Tooth. In addition to the smaller diameters with fewer teeth, all Race Face chainrings offer narrow wide tooth arrangements which improve chain retention by reducing slop from side to side. To make these work, e-RAD includes a custom spider (chainring adapter) and they made an extra special adapter for the Origin8 here which creates alignment on the wider fat bike frame. Chainrings and software are nice but to me, the really amazing part of this motor system when ordered in one of the larger custom widths or the BB press-fit configurations is the machined improvements to the axle and casing. These guys actually tap the spindle tube and add extenders, they engineer new longer spindles which fit tighter and they create shims to adapt the system for press fit. It’s kind of amazing and something that would be very difficult for an individual to do themselves without some very expensive hardware. Here’s a deeper look at the shop and some of the engineering that happens to make these alterations.

Powering the kit is your choice of a mid mounted or rack mounted Lithium-ion battery solution offering 48 volts of power. The big question is whether to go with the 9 amp hour standard pack or upgrade to 11.6 amp hour or 14 amp hour. The more amp hours you have the further you’ll go but it also increases the weight by about half a pound at each step. The smaller pack uses Samsung cells while next is Panasonic and the 14ah is Sanyo. They’re all reputable brands, especially Panasonic, but unfortunately I can’t add much in terms of testing feedback given my limited time with the demo bike. One other point about choosing battery sizes… the faster you accelerate and ride, the more energy you’ll lose in terms of drag and therefore the shorter distance you’ll be able to travel per charge. If you ride slower and use pedal assist, you’ll be maximizing range. The battery case used here looks beautiful and stays very close to the downtube (using the two bottle cage mounting points that are built in to most frames). The pack is fairly long and may not fit perfectly if your frame is petite, consider calling e-RAD before purchase for more specific feedback on fit or consider one of the optional rear-mounted batteries if you have a step-thru and want to keep that area of the bike open. The pack is black, made of plastic and includes a charging port on the right with a keyed lock on the left. At the top, there’s a little power indicator LED strip with a test button to let you know how full the pack is when it’s not attached to the bike. One big difference between the older and newer pack design from e-RAD is the lack of a USB charging port but that has been replaced with a new port up on the display. In my opinion, this is a big improvement as it’s less likely to get snagged or kicked off when pedaling. As a side note, during my tour of Lectric Cycles I was able to peer inside one of the Panasonic packs and was impressed with the hard point welding used to connect each 18650 cell. Many less expensive batteries use simple wires which are easier to shake loose and short circuit. To further strengthen their new battery design the company has engineered a plastic grid frame that holds each individual cell in place. There’s a strong emphasis on quality with the e-RAD system and a thoughtful approach from guys who all love to ride and want to deliver a product that will endure under rigorous use (especially with this top end kit). Keep in mind, to extend the life of your battery it’s best to store it in a cool dry place, extreme heat and cold can be hard on it. Also, try to keep it at 50% charged when storing for long periods so the cells aren’t stressed and check in every couple of months for a quick top-off… Use that LED battery indicator ;)

Operating this electric bike conversion kit is fairly standard and the display and control systems are very adaptable so they should work on a wide range of handlebars. First, you charge the battery pack up (either on or off the frame). Next, use the handlebar mounted button pad to power on the system… Pretty easy and fast. I like that the control pad is mounted separately from the display and can be fit snug next to your grips for easy access while riding. If you’re using this e-bike kit for a cruiser (with extra long bars) e-RAD offers an extender cable so the button pad will reach… just ask when ordering. So, the LCD display mounts to the center of the handlebars and sits just above the stem. I saw it installed on cruisers, city bikes and mountain bikes without issue but did notice that it’s not designed to swivel or be removed which could be an issue in terms of glare, wear and tear or vandalism if you leave the bike outside a lot. Once on, you’re shown speed, battery level and assist level (default 0-5) which is controlled by pressing up and down on the pad. If you’d like, you can also change the increments to 0-9 and I think e-RAD will do this for you if you want finer incriments but the top end power and speed will be the same. You can also press left on the pad to view average speed and max speed or right to view trip distance, odometer and time. This is all fairly standard but the really interesting bits are buried deeper in the system, by pressing the power circle two times rapidly in succession you enter into the advanced settings. By using the passcode provided by Lectric Cycles or your dealer you are able to adjust wheel size, top speed and other defaults like the backlit and auto-off time (which defaults to five minutes). Depending on how you adjust the bike it’s possible to reach ~40 mph as mentioned earlier. Overall, the display and control pad are fairly standard but they enable you to do a lot with your bike because they are more open. It’s worth noting that the LCD and button pad can also be used to activate lights if you wire them in and the LCD itself has a backlight. I’m not sure how difficult it would be to add your own lights and I tend to use rechargeable aftermarket solutions like these Cygolites.

The e Rad mid-drive electric bike kits are some of the best I’ve reviewed to date and the 1,000 watt option is quite impressive but also a bit concerning to me. The 350, 500 and 750 watt kits look similar but you can tell which one you’ve got by looking at the bottom of the unit (in case you’re buying this second hand). The newest BBS HD looks entirely different and weighs more as mentioned earlier because they include more copper wiring inside to handle increased current. Whether you get this as a DIY, purchase through a shop who can help you install it or choose one of the pre-built Electra or Origin 8 models from e-RAD, you’re getting a nice drive system. I thoroughly enjoyed Origin8 fat bike with its RockShox Bluto and was amazed at how peppy the kit was and how well shift sensing worked. I never heard the gears mash, even when I shifted under throttle mode! I often hear forum users discussing the system components offered by Lectric Cycles, excited by the opportunity to convert a fat bike, use a continuously variable transmission like the NuVinci or upgrade a full suspension bike. For those who already have a Bafang 8Fun kit, Lectric Cycles does sell many of their accessories and upgrades independently and this can be a great way to improve performance or fit. Given the warranty, solid customer support and dealer network being built by this company I feel like it’s a great way to go if you don’t mind the extra cable clutter and a bit of time and energy spent converting. If you’ve already got a bike you love and don’t mind getting your hands dirty (or paying a shop) this could be a great option. As someone who has had multiple concussions (while wearing a helmet) and hit parked cars (while filming reviews for this website) I would urge you to ride safe, I cracked one of my teeth in half when I was younger and am reminded daily that some body parts don’t heal. I rated this kit slightly lower than the 750 watt (and other lower-power kits) because of the potential legal liability issues it introduces and the unproven performance it offers compared with the time-tested BBS02.

Pros:

  • Some of the older E-RAD battery packs had integrated USB ports (for charging your phone or other portable electronics) but the latest kits have moved this port up to the display where it is even more accessible
  • The display panel and button pad are setup to operate lights (if you wire them in) and work with either trigger throttles or twist throttles (and E-Rad offers both and Left or Right side specific)
  • For the base $1,195 motor price the eRAD mid drive motor kit is compatible with 68 and 73 mm bottom brackets and for $1,295 you can get it custom built for BB86, BB90, BB92, BB95 with press-fit (Trek and Giant) or 100 mm for fat bike frames
  • While the motor is assembled by Bafang and resembles the other 8Fun kits I’ve reviewed, it uses higher quality bearings, mosfet transistors and chainring designs as well as an integrated shift-sensor wire and firmware to control it
  • Mid-drive designs reduce unsprung weight (if you have suspension) and offer improved balance because they are low and center on the frame, they are also more efficient with paired with a gear cluster or CVT because they provide mechanical advantage for the drive system
  • Three battery size options are available for the 1,000 watt motor size including 48 volt 9 amp hour, 48 volt 11.6 amp hour and 48 volt 14 amp hour for improved range, the stock option is downtube mounting but rear rack designs may also available in some sizes
  • Solid one year comprehensive warranty with a 1,000 cycle guarantee on the battery pack, quality Samsung, Panasonic or Sanyo Lithium-ion cells are light weight and durable
  • Available direct online either as a customized kit or pre-built into select frames (possibly the Electra Fast 5, Moto 3, Townie or Origin 8 Fat Bike) more may be coming in the future, they also do custom work
  • Great dealer selection with over 50 shops in the United States who can install this or receive and build your bike
  • Quiet and relatively smooth to operate considering the power rating, extra firmware and software optimization has been done to delay the throttle when starting from rest for safety and reduced wear

Cons:

  • The display panel doesn’t swivel very easily and is not removable, this is fairly common and doesn’t present much of an issue but it may expose the part to more weathering and the possibility of vandalism or tinkering if you leave the battery on the frame when parked
  • The cables for this kit have to be arranged and connected to the frame using zip-ties which can look a bit cluttered, many times they are a bit too long (one size fits all) and this leads to some jumbling, looks best on black frames because they blend in
  • The stock brake levers are mechanical so if you have hydraulic brakes on your bike you will have to ask for the universal brake sensor and then glue or zip tie in the sensor and magnet
  • This motor may not be legal as a “low speed electric bike” in some states due to the 1,000 watt nominal rating (I believe California allows it but many others do not, they limit power to 750 watts) consider the next step down if this concerns you, e-RAD offers a 750 watt kit I’ve reviewed here or stick to off-road use

Resources:

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VB Ebikes
1 year ago

Nice. I see a fat tire beach trike in the future..

Court Rye
1 year ago

Oh yeah! This kit would be a blast on the sand with a fat bike. Do you guys sell them or offer conversions at your shop in Virginia Beach?

VB Ebikes
1 year ago

We sell Pedego's fat bike and an in house fatty we've been making for several years. Most all our customers want a ready to go, out the door ebike verses a project. However we do some custom one-off conversions for interested customers. With the advancement and higher quality of today's kits though I think we might be doing more in the future. It was great seeing all the fat tire love at Interbike this year! Looking forward to seeing your review on Easy Motion's twin motored fatty.

Court Rye
1 year ago

Yeah! I can't wait to test that one out... Is it the Evo Snow?

Mike
7 months ago

You're talking two different bikes the Pedego is only 500 watt hub motor no low end power to speak of this mid drive set-up will develop 10 times the starting tourque of a Pedego 500 watt system

VB Ebikes
1 year ago

The Evo Snow is a twin motored mtn ebike. They had a fat tire with the same twin motor set up at Interbike. Not sure of he name but it has all the E-mo goodies. Hits the market sometime in November.

Court Rye
1 year ago

Oh! That's cool, I heard about last year's Evo snow, I think Blue Monkey Bicycles in Utah had one but I wasn't able to make it for a test ride. I'll definitely keep an eye out and appreciate the heads up :)

thomas
1 year ago

Greetings, I recently purchased a recumbent catrike 559 and have been exploring the possibilities of adding a mid drive motor kit. I was wondering if you had any experience with recumbent trikes and mid drives and if so, is there any particular manufacture you could recommend.

I had a massive stroke 10 yrs ago and this is the first time since the accident i'm out riding again. The trike has become a tremendous source of inspiration, exercise and just getting out and meeting people. My reason for looking into the motor is to enable myself to venture greater distance from my home and not worry if I have enough energy to make it back. Thanks very much indeed, Thomas

Court Rye
1 year ago

Hi Thomas! Sounds like a cool project... I've seen several electrified Catrike models by individuals and shops and one that even used a mid-drive. That one was created by Propel Bikes in New York, they were experimenting with the 8Fun branded BBS02 from Bafang but you might actually have better luck with the E-RAD branded BBS02 (also manufactured by Bafang) since it's more adaptable and has shift sensing. Here's a link to a review I did on their conversion (they used to be called Long Island Electric Bikes). In the video I don't go into the details of how they did it but it might serve as a visual example for you and proof point that it can work! You could also contact Propel and E-RAD to ask for advice. Alternatively, lots of people use the BionX drive system to convert trikes because it's much easier to install and remove, they have a high-power motor called the D-Series that offers throttle, assist and regenerative braking which is pretty cool.

Pete
1 year ago

Court, Would you clarify the reason for the 1/2 star deduction on the 1000w erad model (vs the 5star 750W). Thanks, Pete

Court Rye
1 year ago

Sure! I rated it slightly lower because it exceeds the legal limit for classification as a low speed electric bike in the USA. The limit here is 750 watt max with 20 mph top speed unassisted and this can be achieved by the 750 e-RAD but not the BBSHD 1000 watt. If you don't care about that point or actually prefer an off road kit then there's nothing wrong with the 1000 and it performed great with my limited testing :)

Kelsey
4 months ago

I know this is an old thread, but I was just looking at the review and thought I'd chime in on this comment that it's not the whole USA. MN's definition is 1000 watt/20 mph

Court Rye
4 months ago

Awesome, thanks for that feedback Kelsey! I've heard that Texas and California have also set slightly different legal definitions. Glad to hear Minnesota is a bit more open to bikes with that extra power so people can use them to haul more or climb easier :)

Pete
1 year ago

Court, Thank you for the clarification (and thanks for a creating this great site!). I ordered the 1000w e-rad with the 14Ah battery built on the Giant Toughroad SR1. My thinking is that although I don't want to be illegal or unsafe I'm a big guy (> 2x Court) and the larger motor would be able to better handle my hilly 19 mile (one way) commute. I also felt that if I didn't max out the motor and battery I may be in a situation of having to upgrade immediately. All the variables of trying to figure out what will work given your weight/distance/topography/etc are mind numbing and I didn't have an option to demo the different motor/battery types before buying. Thanks, Pete

Court Rye
1 year ago

Hey Pete! It sounds to me like you made a great decision and that's why I try to review "everything" and just post the notes for legal liability purposes and as a guide. I would love to hear how the system performs for you on that 19 mile commute with the hills etc. Good thinking on maxing out the battery especially. E-RAD is a great company and I truly hope they deliver a finished product that meets or exceeds your hopes :)

Pete
1 year ago

Thanks Court. Both the bike and the motor are on back order. I'm expecting the bike in February. I'm really excited to try it out and will definitely report back with my experience. Thanks, Pete

Lucia
11 months ago

Hey Court, I agree on Pete, thank you so much for making this site, its been really helpful! I now live in Guatemala in a very steep mountain peak and will have a short, but very steep commute (even cars require a lot of hp to go up). The traffic is insane and I love mtb so I figured I could buy this kit and put it in my 29" Red line.
I was wondering if you knew where to buy this kit online?

Court Rye
11 months ago

Hi Lucia, I'd check on the official e-RAD website here using their contact info because I know it could be sold online but the international shipping part could be difficult (especially with batteries). I don't feel qualified to answer directly but wish you luck!

Lucia
11 months ago

Oh yeah! I would be ordering it to ship to the US and then putting it in my luggage. Thanks a lot for your quick response! I'm super excited to get this, life riding a bicycle doesn't compare!

Court Rye
11 months ago

Oh, that makes sense... Good luck :)

Wade
1 year ago

How fast will setup go in throttle mode only? Thanks, Wade M

Court Rye
1 year ago

Hi Wade, I believe the kit is unlockable and can achieve speeds close to 40 miles per hour depending on the battery. This is a question you might want to ask e-RAD directly by visiting their website contact page. Good luck and ride safe :)

Wade M
1 year ago

Great! Awesome review, thanks for the info. Wade M

Joe Capp
12 months ago

Great article, thank you for sharing! I am interested in converting my Motobecane hard tail. I live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil and their are no laws regarding speed etc. I could do 60 and people would just look with astonishment.

Anyway, I will mostly be using it for commuting but on weekends it will see it share of BIG hills, some trails and definitely a lot of rough roads. Rio's infrastructure is terrible! (sorry but its true). If I go with the BBSHD, from Luna Cycle and also purchase their upgraded 42T chain ring ($99.00 upgrade) what would you suggest as the best battery option to go with? What other MUST have options should I get. I definitely plan to upgrade the brakes.

Round trip commute will be 30 - 40 miles +or- with one big hill on the arrival in the morning. The ride home is a breeze. I prefer to go with 52w/20ah (or larger) in a bottle or triangle shape so I can put it on the down tube. Also, I don't mind paying a bit more for higher quality.

Finally, the purchase will be made in the states and sent to an address in the states. I then plan to pack it well in a suitcase and check it in as luggage when I get to the airport to take it back to brazil. Will I be able to do this? check a large battery in luggage? does anyone have any experience with this? is it legal?

Thank you in advance, I am very excited to start this next chapter in my life!!!

Court Rye
12 months ago

Hey! I can tell you're excited because you posted three comments... I approve and reply to them manually so that's why they didn't show up immediately :)

It sounds like you're building a powerful, high speed, long range electric bike and it might get heavy as a result... In that case I'd definitely recommend mechanical or hydraulic disc brakes with 180 mm rotors (hydraulic is smoother but more difficult and time consuming to service which may require the help of a shop). In my experience the best batteries are Panasonic followed by Samsung and while a 52 volt pack may sound impressive, you should be alright with 48 and the Amperage is really going to be the measurement of power (and not all companies share that info). I'd say 500 watt motor with 48 volt 15 amp hour battery would be solid for what you want and anything larger is just extra money and weight... but it all depends on the system.

No comment on flying with batteries, I'm pretty sure it's not allowed but not sure how to get the product back to your home country either? There is a big issue in the USA right now due to low quality batteries catching fire in the Hoverboard products. I hope this helps, there are companies that sell full ebikes and do ship internationally including Falcon and possibly Voltbike. Falcon makes a 1000 watt product back at their website http://falconelectricbikes.com/

joe capp
12 months ago

thank you for your reply. I was not sure about the delay because my first comment was posted then later disappeared so I thought I was inputting something wrong somehow! haha. I understand now. Patience is needed!

What I am reading is the BBSHD is about 12 pounds, the battery is also about 12 pounds. My bike is under 12 pounds. So with the three together, we are at less than 36 pounds before additional upgrades such as brakes, lights, controller, a different chain ring and whatever else.

Would I be safe to assume there is less than 4 pounds of "extra weight" after the motor and battery? This would keep me right around 40 which would then allow me to pick it up to carry up my 2 flights of stairs every day when arriving at my morning destination!

any suggestions on size or brand controller or is the one that comes with built specifically for the BBSHD?

thanks again for the reply, I will remain more patient......

Court Rye
12 months ago

Hi Joe, yeah the system shows you the comment temporarily to confirm that it was submitted but if you refresh it will disappear because it is not yet approved ;)

My understanding is that the BBSHD will come with brake levers, wires, controllers and basically everything needed for operation except a battery. This would be a great question for e-RAD to confirm but I doubt you'd need to purchase a controller separately. Also, they might be able to help you discover the weight of the "extras" and whether it's under 4 lbs. Sounds like you're going to have a very cool ebike when all of this is done! If you want to reduce weight even more I suggest going with the 500 watt motor which is still powerful but weighs less due to having less copper wire inside.

joe capp
12 months ago

500 watt motor would mean going with something smaller like the BBS02 (which says 750 watt?) HECK NO! I want the speed, toque and POWER!!!! thanks again for the quick replies. :D now all I have to do is figure out the legalities of getting a battery from the US to Brazil or getting one directly here in Brazil. (this is what I am currently working on) BTW - Shipping is not an option. Customs grab everything up here in brazil and then charge you a tax equal to the purchase price, basically charging you twice for anything shipped here!

Court Rye
12 months ago

Cool, I'm wishing you luck! Sorry to hear that the customs people are corrupt like that :/

joe capp
11 months ago

If possible, could you take one more look at my configuration and let me know how it looks, where it could be improved and/or modified for better performance and weight savings?

The bike I have is a Motobecane all aluminum hardtail and is about 10 pounds. It has XTR derailers, Cassette, brakes, carbon fiber cranks (which will go to the wayside if I cannot integrate them), carbon fiber seat post and handle bars. I plan to upgrade to XTR hydraulic disc brakes as I currently do not have them and as everyone knows, stopping is a priority!!!!

I plan to purchase the LunaCycle BBSHD 1000W middrive motor along with the gear sensor for derailers, befang hydraulic E-brake sensor, and a Luna Eclipse 42T chain ring.

The battery, that I plan to build is basically a 14S6P made up of Panasonic 18650's which would be 84 total batteries and less than 12 pounds. This would give me 51.8W and 20.4ah. or about 50 miles of distance and approximately 35-40 MPH of speed with strong torque for some steep climbs?

In regard to batteries - I found Fasttech sells the Panasonic NCR18650B 3.7V 3400mAh (protected version) a little over $7.00 a piece. Is this a good reputable place to buy? Do you know of a better battery for my purpose or better location to purchase them from? Please, all input on this will be greatly appreciated! I have time if I need to order them from overseas but I prefer US purchases as they are easier and safer for returns should there be bad cells.

What is the difference between protected and unprotected in this application? Is it in regard to safety? durability? what? I have not been able to find info anywhere on the differences. Being that I will be buying and building the battery myself, I need a quality spot welder, solder gun, pure nickel strips, glue gun/glue and a high quality BMS/charger. Any recommendations on which welder to purchase and where to get these supplies?

What else do you see that I may need? what else is missing? Once again, I would like to thank you in advance for reading this and for any advice you may be able to throw my way!

HOW I PLAN TO GET BATTERIES TO BRAZIL: My plans are to make sure they are all individually wrapped and protected and carry them on as instructed by the FAA. They have no limit on quantities of spare batteries but have maximum 100 watt hours (wh) per battery. Here is a cut and paste from their website and also a link if you want to see the whole article

"Size limits: Lithium ion (rechargeable) batteries are limited to a rating of 100 watt hours (Wh) per battery. These limits allow for nearly all types of lithium batteries used by the average person in their electronic devices. With airline approval, passengers may also carry up to two spare larger lithium ion batteries (101-160 watt hours). This size covers the larger after-market extended-life laptop computer batteries and some larger batteries used in professional audio/visual equipment.

Quantity limits: None for most batteries – but batteries must be for use by the passenger. Batteries carried for further sale or distribution (vendor samples, etc.) are prohibited. There is a limit of two spare batteries per person for the larger lithium ion batteries described above (101-160 watt hours per battery). Batteries must be protected from damage."

Based on this, individual cells, that are protected, would be allowed in carry on baggage. Comments? thoughts? ideas? thanks again!!!!!!!!!

Court Rye
11 months ago

Hi Joe! Wow, lots of great information here and your plan to bring batteries to then build your pack is brilliant. As for chargers and BMS I think GRIN Technologies has a great charger called The Satiator that would be worth checking out. I interviewed the founder of that company a while back, he's very smart and positive. I don't have much to add to your plan but would recommend buying spare parts if you cannot get them locally including tires, tubes and maybe even brake pads, spokes and supplies for bleeding your brakes over time if you need to make adjustments? Sounds like a great plan to me and people in the EBR Forums or in the Endless Sphere forums should be able to help further as well if you have questions.

Jun
11 months ago

Hi Court. do have an idea how big is the battery is?

Court Rye
11 months ago

Hi Jun, E-RAD sells a few different sizes and they are listed back at the official site here. You can choose from smaller, less expensive packs that don't go as far or pay more and get an increase in range. I hope this helps you out!

Manuel
11 months ago

Hi Court. Base on your experience which one would you prefer e-rad's BBSHD or bionx d series?

Court Rye
11 months ago

Hi Manuel! Great question... pitting all of the best kits against each other :D I'd pick the BBS02 750 watt to keep it legal vs. the BBSHD 1,000 watt and that would be my winning choice for mountain use where climbing and gears make a difference but for the city and for quieter use (and less strain on the drivetrain) I'd choose the D-Series and maybe even one of the smaller BionX kits to be stealthier. I love that both of these brands offer kits with throttle and pedal assist and can have lights wired in. Hope this helps!

Manuel
10 months ago

how's the throttle on both system? are they variable speed throttle or just full throttle?

Court Rye
10 months ago

Hi Manuel, I remember them being variable speed so you can twist gently and have the bike operate more slowly or less power if you'd like. Companies regularly update their hardware so the best thing to do might be ask them directly?

Luis
9 months ago

Hi! Im so interested in the 1000w conversion kit, and I understand its price is arround 1200. Is this price with or without the battery pack?

Court Rye
9 months ago

Hi Luis! That's without the battery pack, you can see pricing dynamically change on their website when you choose a battery size down at the bottom along with any of the other options. Sorry if the details listed in this review were at all confusing :)

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Neal
11 months ago
I was looking at converting a hardcore downhill bike. The unconventional frame didn't allow for a battery to be mounted there so I started looking into alternatives. Because of this I understand the dilemmas of battery mounting options. It looks like you will be presented with battery mounting options by using the Xtracycle extension however so don't give up just yet. It might be very possible with a little creativity and enginuity.
Dolphin style battery packs have taken on a smaller profile this year and some slide into the mount from the side to help accommodate frame clearances. Other options would include flatter, wider battery packs designed to mount to a rack, or a plain battery designed to reside in a fire retardant bag.
I would definitely suggest a mid drive conversion. The 750 watt BBS02 is capable of some pretty steep hills, or even the new 1000 watt BBS HD if you want to climb a tree.
There are several sights out there for conversions. Personally I found the guys at Lectric Cycles to be very knowledgable, helpful, and responsive in my quest for information on converting a "non standard" frame. You are probably looking at spending in the area of $1500-$2000 for a good kit with a decent battery and doing the install yourself. Battery capacity will be a big factor in price fluctuation. You'll probably spend an additional $100 per amp/hr you add to a battery, but if your wife is going to be hauling two kids and/or groceries, and climbing hills on top of it, you'll most likely want a battery in the neighborhood of 14 amp/hr.
As far as "simple" is concerned, it depends if you are referring to the day to day operation being simple, or if the installation of the kit is simple. The operation of the kit is pretty simple where the installation is not so much. There are a lot of videos on YouTube that show the installation process as well as videos explaining the procedures performed by the rider.
Hope this helps.
Kaldeem
1 year ago
Bike_On
2 years ago
Mike leroy
Which motor best suits your riding style? Is it possible that a simple switch can convert the same bike from a legal 20mph "bicycle" to a 40+ mph motorcycle? Yes. Four 8Fun BBS02 center-mounted motor are also compared in the same manner.

The conclusion is the most flexible solution is a 27Amp, 72Volt, 1944Watt controller, compatible with two 13 Amp-hour, 37V battery packs. Certainly, a 72V, 27A, 1944W system is fun for off-road use. Switching the 72V series connection between two 37V volt battery packs to a parallel connection would convert the battery packs from a 72V, 13 Amp-hour into a 37V, 26 Amp-hour power supply. A flexible switch allows a fun, powerful off-road to be instantly converted to a CA legal bicycle. The 37V, 1000W controller switch permits access in CA to bicycle paths as "motorized bicycle".

Unfortunately, the 8Fun BBS02 controller is currently limited to 60V. I encourage bicycle manufacturers to develop a flexible 36-72V switchable controller, as displayed in the following diagram. The idea cannot be patented, because by virtue of appearing here, "prior art" has been established.



The following graph illustrates the conceptual relationships. Torque, an indication of hill-climbing power, is presented in Newton-meters(Nm), rather than foot-pounds. The solid color dots chart torque against speed. The dotted circles illustrate the amp to volt ratios.



The dotted line in previous graph represents my idealized watt ratio. Each watt has three parts amps and four parts volts. Amps are correlated with hill-climbing power. Volts loosely relates to speed and acceleration. Think of the ratio as a cup of coffee. How much cream and sugar suits your taste?

In other words, a 36 volt, 9 amp, 350 watt EuroMotor just ain't my cup of tea -- about half my desired amp ratio. My favorite motor in the following graph is the 4200 watt 5403, but unfortunately is too heavy. My ideal choice is a 27 amp, 36 volt BBS02, which is three times EuroMotor amperage.

The 8Fun BBS02 center-mounted motor is contrasted with hub motors in the following picture. The optimal amp-to-volt ratio for the BBS02 is 0.53.

My pedal strategy is to exploit motor power to overcome sub-20mph speeds. I will use a 50 tooth chainring to achieve high, leg-powered speeds over 20mph without motor assistance. I am primarily concerned with accelerating past inattentive car traffic and easing steep hill climbs. My goal is an average 25mph speed in a three mile radius. The most frequent trips are transportation related, e.g., grocery shopping, train connections, etc....


Motor weight, or torque-to-weight ratio, is the reason I chose a center-mounted motor over hub motors. The Crystalyte 5403 weighs 30 kg, or 7.5 times the BBS02, for the same 120Nm torque. The higher weight comes from more powerful, thicker magnets and copper wire in the hub motor. The center-mounted BBS02 relies on gears to run at the most efficient RPM, rather than stronger magnets.

The 5403 also uses the more expensive 72V battery pack to achieve higher power, which costs $1200 more for the 26 amp-hour pack.

In California, 1000 watts is the legal limit for "motorized bicycles". Since the motor is restricted to 1000 watts of electrical power, my goal is to find the motor that generates the greatest torque for 1000 watts. In CA, 1001 to 1500 (2 HP) is a M2 scooter, which is prohibited from bicycle paths.

The constraints I choose to accept are a maximum 54 volts and 27 amps. Therefore, optimizing the bike gearing is crucial for a satisfactory outcome. Configure the largest chainring my legs can tolerate.
  • Conceptually the Gates Carbon Drive front/rear sprockets are like a BMX no-gear bike.
  • The IGH provides gearing. The front/rear on a BMX is approximately 27:9, or 3:1. The Gates 55:19 is closest at 2.8:1 . Use this chart and calculations for the previous PDF doc to customize for your situation.
  • I probably need about a 1.6m display, so a 50:20 (2.5:1) is probably the closest match for my fitness level.


Some of the reasons I chose the following frame are:
  1. Split frame for belt and chain compatibility. Frame weighs only weighs 19 pounds.
  2. The battery tank capacity is enormous, 26 Amp-hours! 52V, 26Ah NMC battery pack only weighs 16 pounds, but costs $1900.
  3. The swingarm suspension for safe driving at 45+ mph downhill coasting speeds in two-lane traffic. My neighborhood also has 15mph speed bumps on hills with 30mph downhill coasting speeds. I will also take dirt paths that cut across residential streets. About ten concrete curbs meet the dirt paths at the street intersections. The ride is jarring. The 40mph downhill, potholed, tree-rooted, backroads are in a state of disrepair. My favorite backroad is one that I take, every chance I get.
  4. Either a mid-drive or rear hub motor up to 6000 Watts can be installed. The bottom bracket is a generic standard, rather than a proprietary brand.
  5. Must weight under 50 pounds to meet Amtrak regulations. Weight without front wheel and battery pack.
  6. In California, 1000 watts is the legal limit for "motorized bicycles". Since the motor is restricted to 1000 watts of electrical power, my goal is to find the motor that generates the greatest torque for 1000 watts. The 750w BBS02 generates 115Nm of torque.
  7. Has a throttle. Controller has adjustable 20mph cut-off. I also want the flexibility to upgrade to 45+ mph rear hub, if the side roads do not work out.
  8. All wires routed internally.
  9. U.S. DOT VIN number to register in CA as legal motorcycle, should I choose that option.
  10. A mail-order and service bike, so components must be the most reliable.
  11. Configure the largest chainring my legs can tolerate. My strategy is to rely on motor to power me through sub 20mph speeds. I will use a 50 tooth chainring to achieve speeds over 20mph without motor power.
    • Conceptually the Gates Carbon Drive front/rear sprockets are like a BMX no-gear bike.
    • The IGH provides gearing. The front/rear on a BMX is approximately 27:9, or 3:1. The Gates 55:19 is closest at 2.8:1 . Use this chart and calculations for the previous PDF doc to customize for your situation.
    • I probably need about a 1.6m display, so a 50:20 (2.5:1) is probably the closest match for my fitness level.
Hey Leroy,

I don't know if you still follow the forum. You had some interesting graphs/plots. I like how you discuss the optimization.

You should check out my performance spreadsheet in the compare section.

Best weight/torque: Optibike motors, New Bionx Dd hub.
grench
2 years ago
SSs
It's a fantastic bike -- so I thought, why not just add a BionX S350 DV to it -- so I look up the price and it's over $2000! (the Giant was $1000 after taxes). Is the motor so good that it's worth $2000 by itself? .
Look at these
http://electricbikereview.com/e-rad/500-watt-mid-drive-conversion-kit/
Mike leroy
2 years ago
I want to go into motor power more deeply here. I want to explore how motor power contributes to chainring damage. I wonder if volts or amps contribute to chainring wear. Higher volts result in higher RPMs. Greater amperage means more power flowing through the wires surrounding the magnets. You might use the analogy of volts is to acceleration, as amps are to hill climbing torque.

The Bosch system is 36V, 10A, 350W. I wonder if the ratio of 0.36 amp-volt ratio may play a part? A more performant 26A, 54V, 0.5 amp-volt ratio, 1400W BBS02. Perhaps the Bosch motor is too inefficient at some point, i.e., spinning too fast and/or straining due to too few amps?

Personally, I cannot relate to a ten amp system -- just too wimpy. I need at least 25 amps. I also cannot relate to 36 volt systems. I need at least 48 volts. The ideal ratio is probably around 0.75, which runs cool at high torque levels. A 0.75 amp-volt ratio implies a larger magnet and heavier copper windings. So, weight ultimately becomes the decisive factor determining the amp-volt ratio. One thing is for damn sure -- 36V, 10A EuroMotors fall far short of the mark. The EuroBikes are designed for EuroLaw 15mph top-speed. I need USA 20mph top-speed in hilly areas.

A 0.8 amp-volt ratio at the extreme end. "Cromotor at up to 100V X 80A for a brutal 8,000W. On frames this light, you would be shocked at how easily it can out-accelerate some VERY expensive and exotic sports cars at that power level."

In the first post, I touched upon how the upcoming Samarium-Cobolt 26A, 52V, 1400 watt motor with powerful magnets. In CA, 1000 to 1500 (2 HP) is a M2 scooter, which is prohibited from bicycle paths.

A basic battery pack decision is 52V for mid-drive or a 72V battery pack and controller for rear hub motor. I opt for 52V to minimize motor weight. My main goal is sub 20mph speeds, rather than 30+ mph top-speeds. The 72V controller has a minimum cut-off around 60V.

I will overbuy on motor amps to experiment with different Watt settings, provided the controller permits the amp level to be set from the Cycle Analyst display. I will buy a motor between 25 and 50 amps, depending upon cost and minimum voltage required by the controller.

In the unlikely case that a rear hub actually becomes the motor of choice, 3600W, 72V X 50A. The Crown, also from Crystalyte. It uses a 40mm wide stator, which is bigger than the H35, and less than the 50mm stator on the Cromotor. The Crown also has deeper stator slots, so it can hold more copper mass in the windings.

The H40-Series base on the H35 series but the stator and magnet + 5mm width. In order to increase the motor power and torque.

From https://www.electricbike.com/12-kit-power-levels-360w-to-8000w/
"
1200W, 48V X 25A 0.5 amp-volt ratio. Large diameter rear Direct-Drive hub…9-Continents (9C)/E-Bikekit.com/ebay:Yescomusa/Magic Pie/MXUS - the large diameter (which helps the leverage of the magnets to produce more torque-per-watt).

These often come with a 20A max controller, but there is a significant increase in acceleration when going to 25A, and also at 30A. Somewhere between 30A and 40A, they will be in danger of overheating, depending on how much time they spend at the max amps.

As to copper mass, these typically have a 28mm wide stator. But…if you ride up a hill that is long enough and steep enough…even just 30A will fry it… Any amperage above it’s saturation point will make a lot of waste heat, which is inefficient.

1200w, 48V X 25A, 0.5 amp-volt ratio. Rear geared Hubmotor…10T MAC

The MACs stator is 25% wider than the BPMs, so the extra magnet width provides about 25% more power per watt that’s applied. The extra 25% of copper mass also allows more amps to be used, so I am recommending a 25A limit when you only have mild hills.

Once you move the battery weight to the center of the frame, the bike will have a much better balance and feel when riding. A 10T MAC using 48V will provide about a 28-MPH top speed on flat land (45-kph) when using 26-inch wheels, and it climbs mild hills very well.

Like the DD hub listed above, you can get snappier acceleration when upgrading from 25A to 30A, but you have to watch the heat! Geared hubs have a poor heat-shedding path, so if you think you may want to hot rod the motor later with 40A or 72V…get the DD hub.

1200W, 48V X 25A, 0.5 amp-volt ratio. Small mid drive…Bafang BBS02 the motor stays up in it’s best RPM range to keep it from getting too hot, unlike a one-speed hub motor.

1,500W-2,800W, Mid-sized Off-Road Mid drive…LightningRods kit

This motor has performed well at 30A, and it sheds heat well, since it is an inrunner. At 48V X 30A = 1,440W, 0.62 amp-volt ratio. it’s performance is outstanding! But...it gets better than that. The low pole-count means this motor can be run at very high RPMs without excessive waste-heat produced from eddy-current losses. This means that it was tried and successfully verified to run well at 72V (and also 100V!). 72V X 40A, 0.55 amp-volt ratio. an awesome 2,800w!

Of course, if you are running at 100V (and 100V X 30A, 0.33 amp-volt ratio, 3,000W), the motor is spinning fast enough that you will not be able to pedal along with the bike to help. If you want to run more than 3,000W, you will have to sacrifice letting the motor use the bikes gears, which is the biggest benefit of a mid-drive. 4,000W will break bicycle chains and sprockets (or at the very least, wear them out unusually fast).

2520W, 72V X 35A, 0.5 amp-volt ratio, Rear Direct-Drive hub…Crystalyte H35XX (available as an H3525 or H3540)

If you have sampled 35A in a rear hub…and you like it…you really need more copper mass than the common 28mm wide stators in the 9C sized DD hubs. The Crystalyte H35-series has a 35mm wide stator (25% more copper).

they didn’t want any more weight out at the rear wheel than necessary, so…they used higher volts in the smallest hub that would satisfy their needs. For the performance of 72V and 35A minimum, the Crystalyte H35 is the most affordable and lightest hub that can reliably provide that.

If you want to spend a lot of time riding faster than 30-MPH, I recommend a DD hub instead of a geared hub.

2880W, 72V X 40A, 0.55 amp-volt ratio, Crystalyte H40XX (available as an H4040, H4065, H4080)

This motor has an almost identical construction as the HT35XX listed above, but it has a wider 40mm stator, and the extra copper mass will let it use more amps than the HT35XX (under the same conditions), or…it will run cooler at the same amps.

3600W, 72V X 50A, 0.7 amp-volt ratio, Rear Direct-Drive hub…The Crown

In this power category, you could use “The Crown” motor, also from Crystalyte. It uses a 40mm wide stator, which is bigger than the H35 listed above, and less than the 50mm stator on the Cromotor listed below.

The Crystalyte 4080 also uses a 40mm wide stator, but there are differences between these two motors though…the 4080 has a less expensive steel stamped core, and it also is narrow enough to allow you to squeeze in a 5-speed freewheel (not that you’ll be pedaling much with 2880W), and it uses common spokes.

The Crown is more expensive than the 4080. It uses a deeper stator slots, so it can hold more copper mass in the windings.

4300W-8000W, 72V X 60A–100V X 80A, 0.8 amp-volt ratio, Rear Direct-Drive hub…Cromotor

fitting enough battery mass on a bike frame to supply 72V-100V and also 60A-80A.

The popular choice by a longshot is the built a street commuter using a robust downhill (DH) bicycle frame, but he had to order some custom rear drop-outs to accept the Cromotors 145/155mm wide axle shoulder.

The Phasor has the slimmest frame at 100mm wide (for easier pedaling) but…if you want the absolute highest battery volume, the 160mm wide Raptor is the one. The Greyborgs 110mm wide frame is in the middle…slim enough for easy pedaling, but more battery volume for higher volts and amps.

72V X 60A is 4300W, which is the minimum watts that make the cost of a Cromotor system worthwhile, but…all of these frames have also been successfully run with a Cromotor at up to 100V X 80A for a brutal 8,000W. On frames this light, you would be shocked at how easily it can out-accelerate some VERY expensive and exotic sports cars at that power level.

The Cro has the very thick aluminum stator core to absorb the temporary extra heat of large amp-spikes.

"
George S.
3 years ago
Court
Hey George and Ravi, thanks for the perspective. I think you're right about each shop doing it differently with regard to pricing. With any online purchase there's the added effort of time spent communicating and confirming a purchase, the risk associated with buying direct overseas, waiting for the shipment and possibly delays if it is sent improperly due to large Lithium battery regulations, assembling it yourself and dealing with maintenance and warranties down the road.

George, it sounds like your local bike shops offer great service if a tuneup is only $35. In Austin the lowest quotes I got were $80 and there were lines with waiting periods ranging from three days to a week. I personally dislike assembling ebikes (and really the whole experience of hauling the giant box around... I've also struggled with being home when the package arrives!) My full time job made it difficult but also provided the money to just buy one from a dealer. I felt pretty good about paying more for their services and felt like I made friends, they even helped me sell the bikes later when upgrading etc.

However you come by your electric bike, it's a neat piece of technology and I love that they are getting better and cheaper. As you may know, my first ebike was purchased online and it was a bad experience. Everything I mentioned above plus trying to resell a product that nobody around me on Craigslist had ever heard of. The shops wouldn't touch it and I knew I didn't have the parts or experience to fix it myself so I always felt scared riding it. I'm glad your bikes have turned out so well and with the right resources I think you can find good stuff! My experience happened before there was an ElectricBikeReview to visit or a forum to get this kind of help in (I didn't know much about Endless Sphere at the time and when I eventually did discover it, it seemed mostly like modding and kits).

Hi Court,

Well, Ravi is the driving force behind this community and he always brings a lot of depth to the discussion.

I think when I found the Sphere forum, it started to change my perspective. At first I though ebikes were pretty complicated, and there are elements that get complex. The integration of the two drive systems is difficult. Flykly, which still has no product, claims they will use the computing power in a smart phone to work this out. The upscale mid-drive systems are supposed to be super smooth. I think Toyota, with Hybrid Synergy, kind of defined this problem in cars, although I don’t think a Prius has pedals.

That aside, I was surprised that hub motors cost just a few hundred dollars, and they are generally thought to be reliable. I can point you to a video showing how to take a regular bike and turn it into an ebike in an hour:

http://www.electricbike.com/one-hour-electric-bike-conversion/

Now I’ve studied people who take old (light and cheap cars) and convert them to electric, generally with fork lift motors. You want complicated? And there is real danger here, with huge battery packs.

Maybe the toughest area is the battery systems. The building block is almost always the 18650 cell configuration. But, from there you have to cope with different chemistries, weights, and types of packs. A no-brand (from China) cell might cost a couple of dollars versus a Panasonic that you find for a multiple of the price. Since a pack may have 50 cells, it adds up pretty fast. I’ve dealt with battery chargers, solar controllers, and power supplies. I can generally follow a set of rules for battery types. But I honestly don’t know how much a battery pack costs, because I don’t know what the best choice is.

Even so, I think you could procure a decent bike for what I paid for mine, maybe $450. You might want to go with a different configuration. The disk brakes might get in the way. There are torque issues, so maybe a mountain bike frame is stronger. There are choices in that price range, even at Costco, the LBS, or Dicks.

So the $400 frame is in the garage. Your hub motor wheel shows up. I’d go with a low power system because I still want to do most of the work. I want help, but nothing more. That wheel is maybe $250. You buy a $400 battery pack. You buy the controller and the other parts you need, maybe for $200. You can get kits with ‘everything’, and all the parts and connectors mate. I may have left something out, but this seems to total $1300. If you happen to have a bike lying around, or you scrounge one from somewhere, you can probably save a lot there. If you buy an integrated kit, and roll the dice on a less than brand name battery pack (not a lead system) you could maybe squeak through for a thousand. I’m using a new bike you buy to build.

Anyway, lets say this is not a real lesson, but a benchmarking exercise. We aren’t going to build. We want one box. (BTW My UPS has some nice scheduling features for their deliveries.) Basically, if I can build a bike in this range, a manufacturer or a wholesale importer should be a bit lower. He’s a quantity buyer. But he has another markup, on a finished bike.

So after doing this, I was wondering why the Neo Cross is a $3000 bike. It’s better, I’m sure, and more refined, but I doubt the basic bike as a frame and components is that much better. The answer really seems to be that the $2800 bikes have a $1000 markup. And this is borne out by the prices wholesale dealers are offering, at least to some people. It’s an information age.

You can go at the thing from the other direction and ask “Well, who is assembling bikes (or having it done it China) but then charging a lower markup.” You are then asking who has few or no dealers, or a different kind of dealer. No dealers = Ebay = Web Direct, etc. I think Hebb started out with models that were engineered for him in China, and then he just went with a rebranded Chinese bike. I can’t say this was successful, or that his margins were lower. The bikes don’t seem to be available. Prodeco claims to assemble their bikes in the US, but I’m sure the drive parts are Chinese. The other parts appear to be decent. Volton seems to sell Chinese bikes at a fairly low markup.

Prodeco is listed as one of the high volume manufacturers on one of the business sites. I don’t have any numbers. Prodeco got in a lot of trouble with some support struts. I don’t know how it dragged on as long as it did. I don’t know if the problem is fixed. It’s discouraging, but it can happen. My guess is that warranty costing is almost impossible in a fledgling industry. Guess wrong and there goes the company. (I don’t know if Pedego or Prodeco was first but one sounds a lot like the other.)

Prodeco seems to have lower margins than the top tier vendors. Volton prices are not too far from assembly costs. There seem to be parts of the Volton bikes that are Chinese spec. You can’t get the part easily. I would avoid having Chinese proprietary parts at all costs. It’s what you get when you buy the $89 generator from Harbor Freight, and it means if something small goes wrong, you’re out of luck. I hope Volton gets out from under that little episode at Sphere. I wish they would do enough labor on their bikes to insure everything but the drivetrain is world standard parts, not local Chinese parts.

I’m in the market for plain vanilla. I like to ride, but I can see advantages to a motor. I’ve lost a step, maybe a whole staircase. I don’t like performance. If you look at the drag curve for bikes, you’re in deep trouble over about 15mph. The energy in the battery is going to move air molecules. How much of the energy? Well, maybe 80%. Is that really ‘green’? But I’m just not in a hurry. So I figure a nice bike with a 250 watt motor should be OK. I’m stuck on the battery, but with a warranty, I can roll the dice. I think I can carry stuff with a trailer, and the trailers carry a lot. People put their kids in bike trailers.

Maybe Prodeco and Volton, others who tend to sell on the Web, can get the kinks worked out, get a reputation that works for them. Prodeco seems to understand what parts work. It’s tough to just bring in a Chinese bike. Too many issues, especially down the road.

I don’t know why all the bike dealers (regular bikes) don’t get together and make a plain vanilla ebike in a couple of configurations and sizes. It doesn’t have to look bland. It would be like a ‘house brand’ for LBS facilities. They could make sure it is a bike they could fix, world parts. They could have a cooperative parts facility to rebuild drivetrains. They might want to try the Chinese mid-drive, but the hubs are more proven. Maybe they should just do conversions in the shop, or offer a bike as a bike, or an ebike. For finished bikes, they could do a hybrid and an MTB. If they had a few hundred bike shops signed on they, as a large group, could control the assembly. I think they could use a Chinese drive and everything else would be about like any bike. And, finally, if they marked it up maybe $200?

Walmart could do this. Home Depot could do this. Dicks or Big 5 could do this. There’s more in it for the LBS because they need maintenance dollars.

Best,

George
Jose Duque
1 month ago

Breaking system could be hydraulic? or should be mechanical, in order to kill throttle when breaking? Thanks

hobowalker1
5 months ago

I really like the mid drive kits but, the right crank being offset on the bafang and cyclone put me off from getting one.

tastemysaucer
5 months ago

You should get a couple more GoPro's and mount them on handlebar and some other place to get better angles for a better review

Anthony Steele
7 months ago

it's nice to go 25mph up hills on a bbs02

H8edsinclair
7 months ago

is there any kits like this for BMX bikes

H8edsinclair
7 months ago

+Chris Head thanks for the info m8 I will give u a call

Chris Head
7 months ago

You can put a BBS motor on a BMX bike but it may not be the best way to go. Feel free to call us to discuss. 702 444 7474

straight2curveus
8 months ago

why is the motor moving so much when you let off the power?

Chris Head
7 months ago

There is a 1 second run on after you stop pedaling is that what you see. Feel free to call us to discuss. 702 444 7474

OutLawE-Rider
9 months ago

thats Bafang not E-rad...

Chris Head
7 months ago

We have our own brand that is made to our specs by Bafang. We were the first company to get a BBS motor in North America and have worked with Bafang on Refinements as well as some of our own. We have 130 dealers and 6 manufacturing partners. we offer full service and warranty. Bafang does none of this with out us

Sardonic1981
9 months ago

again with the hands in view.... what is with you and that. Great reviews but loose the hands, just cut them off or something.

Coastalways
10 months ago

How do you unlock it to hit the higher top speeds?

Chris Head
7 months ago

You don't need a programming cable for our motor. It is unlocked by entering a code in the display. One of the many differences in our system to typical Bafang

Chris Head
7 months ago

You don't need a programming cable. It is unlocked by a code that varies from display to display. Fell free to contact us to discuss 702 444 7474

Turtle of Doom
10 months ago

2:32 "The kit comes in two different flavors."

manuel abella
11 months ago

i kinda like this setup "function wise - though looks messy". coz incase in the near future when ebike dies i still have a badass bike, unlike those oem midrive frames.

A1techplus
11 months ago

I got the 1000w kit from lectric cycles. IT IS FREAKIN BEASTLY! i put it on my new specialized fatboy. if you do put it on specialized fatboy, the tail has a wider geometry compared to most fatbikes, so althought bb width is 100mm, you have to a motor with a spindle that is 110mm long and ask for extra extra spacers. you can see pictures of my new bike on instagram @spindle.x

NWforager
11 months ago

link in description is broke but here it is https://electricbikereview.com/e-rad/1000-watt-mid-drive-conversion-kit/

JV
11 months ago

Luna sells the same BBSHD with shift sensor for about $400 less.....

Big Willie
6 months ago

Anyone with an IQ over 60 can and basic tools can fix just about anything on the BBSHD via youtube videos and forums. Thanks tho.

Chris Head
6 months ago

But they don't offer the support. If you ever need anything give me a call

Big Willie
7 months ago

Luna motors also come pre-programmed to the highest settings. There are several things you can program the controller to do that you can't using only the display. I don't work for Luna but I can assure you my setup works every bit as well for much less $$$$$

Chris Head
7 months ago

Lectric Cycles motors come at the highest settings and cannot be adjusted higher. You can detune the motor for less speed by programming but no one wants that. The HD motor cannot be set to the 1 thru 9 assist levels even with programming unless you down grade the display to a 0965 and then you don't need a cable. It is common for people to be told they can buy a programming cable and make the system better in some way but it simply is not true.

Big Willie
7 months ago

+Chris Head You can program the power levels, assist levels, etc

A1techplus
12 months ago

unlockable to ~40 can you do it at home yourself, or do the guys at lectric cycles do it for you?

nahidur rahman
9 months ago

+A1techplus​ cheers, thanks for the info

A1techplus
9 months ago

+nahidur rahman right now it ships with 35mph limit that is plenty of speed. u can request to increase it (call them) but i dont recommend higher speed. ive reached 46 mph w throttle and pedaling. it is a bicycle anything over 25 mph can get dangerout if you never riden a motorcycle or dirt bike before. you can also purchade the programming cable (online) yourself and adjust the speed limit to ur liking their are videos with tutorials

nahidur rahman
9 months ago

+Danny Lee is it a simple case of requesting or is it a little more complex than that?

Jerry Brazille
10 months ago

+A1techplus good question did you ever get a answer

Mike Brink
1 year ago

For the most part are double wall rims stronger and won't bend out of true as easy as single wall rims? If I'm building an electric or motorized bike should I use double wall rims because of the extra motor, engine, battery weight or are some cheap rip off double wall rims actually weaker single wall rims??

Mike Brink
11 months ago

+zoltan87 I was thinking double wall rims with thicker spokes like 12 gauge to make em stronger but it seems like if you ask 1000 so called knowledgeable bicycle experts about double wall rims or bigger spokes you get 1000 different answers..Some say they're stronger, some say their not,I think they'd be stronger.. Some say 12 gauge spokes won't make your rims stronger..I think it would coz motorcycles use thicker spokes, thicker rims..If it didn't make the rim stronger they wouldn't make it thicker, heavier gauge etc.. I was curious how strong the Chinese magnesium alloy MAG wheels 26in that www.gasbike,net sells for like $130 a set..Some were drilled with 6 holes for disk brake rotors.. I wanna slowly build a nice motorized bike but wanna get the best bang for the buck..A $3,000 MTN bike is just way too much...I own 2 motorcycles but would love a gas bike..

zoltan87
11 months ago

+Mike Brink Double wall rims are a must. Even a noname double wall rim will be much stronger than a single wall rim.

Frank Mair
1 year ago

Christ ebr talks bullshit ! I'm sorry but u should try a different field

Frank Mair
11 months ago

+zoltan87 meaning what dude

zoltan87
11 months ago

+Frank Mair I think your horse is too high dude.

Frank Mair
11 months ago

+zoltan87 if I really need to explain ... There's no point .

zoltan87
11 months ago

+Frank Mair Would you elaborate? This channel helps me out immensely.

the modfather
1 year ago

Regarding mid-drive, could you go up a 25 degree hill if you used 36T chainring in front and 36T in rear?

NWforager
1 year ago

+the modfather with 1 to 1 gearing should be no issue for even a hub if you pedal too

A1techplus
1 year ago

+the modfather w/ a 1000w mid-drive kit, 25 degree hill shouln't be a problem at all especially with pedal assist.

Majorblazer 90
1 year ago

how much range can be expected when throttling at 30mph?

Logical Morality
1 year ago

Hey what is the top speed on flatland no pedaling, no wind?

Chris Head
7 months ago

40+ on 1000watt