Electric Bike Outfitters EBO Front Range Kit Review

Ebo Front Range Electric Bike Kit Review 1
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Kit
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Gearless Motor Cassette
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Pack And Controller
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Led Console And Twist Throttle
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range 500 Watt Direct Drive Motor
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Lock And Power Button
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Controller Box
Ebo Front Range Electric Bike Kit Review 1
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Kit
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Gearless Motor Cassette
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Pack And Controller
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Led Console And Twist Throttle
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range 500 Watt Direct Drive Motor
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Lock And Power Button
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Controller Box

Summary

  • A powerful gearless hub motor kit capable of being installed as a front or rear wheel, sturdy and relatively quiet
  • Gearless motors tend to be heavier and this one is ~12 lbs and does not offer a regeneration option for regenerative braking
  • The display console is more basic (LED lights vs. an LCD screen) but also takes up less space, the kit comes stock with trigger throttle but has a twist throttle as an opion
  • Quality Samsung cells in the battery pack, larger capacity at 14.5 amp hours, solid one year warranty on all parts

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Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

Electric Bike Outfitters

Model:

EBO Front Range

Price:

$1,083

Suggested Use:

Urban, Trail, Commuting

Electric Bike Class:

Throttle on Demand (Class 2)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

30 Day Return, 1 Year Comprehensive

Availability:

United States

Model Year:

20152016

Bicycle Details

Battery Weight:

7 lbs (3.17 kg)

Motor Weight:

12 lbs (5.44 kg)

Gearing Details:

9 (Single Speed or Shimano 6 or 7 Speed Cassettes or SunRace 8 and 9 Speed Cassettes)

Brake Details:

Mechanical 5 Brand Levers with Motor Inhibitors

Rims:

Aluminum Alloy

Spokes:

13 Gauge Stainless Steel, 36 Spoke

Wheel Sizes:

26 in (66.04cm)27.5 in (69.85cm)28 in (71.12cm)

Tube Details:

Schrader Valve

Accessories:

Female USB Charge Port on Battery Pack, EBO Quick Connect Anti-Water Wiring, Optional Black or Silver Motor Color, Optional Black or White Battery Color, Optional Twist Throttle, Optional Wuxing Twist Throttle

Other:

Compatible with Disc Brakes or Caliper Style Brakes (Clamp Diameter 22.2 mm), Compatible with 100 mm, 120 mm, or 135 mm Dropout Sizes, Compatible with 26", 27.5" or 700C Wheel Size, 22 Amp Controller

Electronic Details

Motor Type:

Front-Mounted Gearless Direct Drive Hub, Rear-Mounted Gearless Direct Drive Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

500 watts

Battery Brand:

Samsung

Battery Voltage:

36 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

14.5 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

522 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

25 miles (40 km)

Estimated Max Range:

45 miles (72 km)

Display Type:

Fixed LED Console

Readouts:

Mode (Low, Med, High), Speed (5-33 MPH), Charge Level (1-4)

Drive Mode:

Trigger Throttle, Twist Throttle, Cadence Sensing Pedal Assist

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph)

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Written Review

The EBO Front Range Kit is a mixed bag for me. I appreciate the more powerful 500 watt motor but given the gearless direct-drive design it weighs more than the more affordable planetary geared kits. Gearless motors are said to be tougher (no gears rubbing inside) and often allow for regenerative braking but that isn’t an option here. What you get is a relatively affordable, medium-power ebike kit. It operates quietly and should last well (you get a one year warranty which is great) but the display is more basic and there’s not throttle-only mode which can come in handy for off-road riding on bumpy terrain.

Even though the Front Range kit is compatible as a front or rear wheel motor, I would almost always choose to put it in the rear. The added weight in the front would definitely impact steering and might even spin out on loose terrain. At the rear, you get a more solid mounting point (especially if you’ve got a suspension fork up front as the demo bike I tried did) and you’re still balancing some of the weight forward with the downtube-mounted battery. The battery is actually one of my favorite parts of this kit because it uses quality Samsung cells, offers more capacity than some of the smaller kits and is easy to remove or lock onto the frame. This pack style is called a “Dolphin” and it can power your bike as well as a USB accessory given the female port on the right side. I’d mostly use this off the bike as a backup power source because when you’re pedaling it’s easy to snag this are of the pack (and any protruding USB plug and wire) with your shoe or leg.

I accidentally snagged the power cable running to the motor on this kit during the video review above and that goes to show how cable management can be a chore on any ebike kit. It’s nice to have your cables all zip tied up but even the best cable management can still look a bit tacky… that’s why all-black frames are a good choice because the cables blend in more. In addition to cables, this kit also has an independent controller box which can be mounted to the seat tube or possibly a rear rack. It’s just one more thing to deal with and it completely takes up the space for any kind of accessory or bottle cage when paired with the downtube style battery.

Overall, this is a solid package but generic gearless motors aren’t my personal preference. I’m a light weight guy who likes to pedal so I tend to opt for geared hubs or mid-drives. Some ebikes like the Stromer ST2 and Specialized Turbo show off what’s possible when you go high-end gearless because their motors are light, fast and offer regeneration but you’ll spend quite a bit more for that performance. I feel like the EBO Front Range motor could benefit from a 48 volt battery here to take full advantage of the extra copper windings inside but as it stands you’re going to get more power and drive than with some of their lighter kits. For true power however, I’m more excited about the EBO Mountaineer for just $100 more.

Pros:

  • There’s a built-in female USB port at the top right portion of the battery pack and this can be used to power a phone or other mobile device while riding the bike or as a backup source of power off the bike
  • Solid value at just over $1k considering you get a powerful 500 watt gearless motor and an oversized 14.5 amp hour battery! Most ebike kits offer 350 watt motors with a 10 ah battery, the cells on this bike are also Samsung and I trust that they are higher quality
  • Not only does Electric Bike Outfitters offer a one year comprehensive warranty, they also provide a 30 day money back guarantee and in my experience have been very willing to do custom swaps to get you the right wheel size or a different throttle unit (twist vs. trigger) free of charge or for very little money
  • Great wiring hardware (color coded makes it easier to setup and repair), the 5 Star brake levers are more generic but they do include motor inhibitor switches to cut power whenever you barke
  • Pedal assist is great for conserving the battery and getting some exercise and three modes is alright but I love that you’ve also got a throttle that can override at any time to help power up a hill or pass a fellow cyclist
  • The hub motor design on this kit is compatible with disc brakes but you can also use standard rim brakes as well, the one thing that requires a changeout is hydraulic brakes because the included levers only work with mechanical systems, you could use hydraulic levers of your own but if they don’t have electronic brake inhibitors built in you won’t be operating as safely (especially given the “all the time” pedal assist design)
  • The kit comes in several configurations to replace a 26″, 27.5″ or 700c wheel, to fit a 100 mm, 120 mm, or 135 mm dropout, and to work as either a front or rear wheel drive kit (though I’d highly recommend rear given the weight of the motor so as not to adversely impact steering)
  • The battery pack snaps on and off easily and quickly for convenient charging or lighter weight transport, you also get a solid locking core built into the battery for when it’s mounted to the frame
  • Especially for trail and mountain use the default trigger throttle works very well as it does not compromise your grip though it might take more space on your bars than the twist throttle (I just don’t like full-grip twists)

Cons:

  • I like the USB charging port but it’s positioned on the side of the battery which makes it easier to bump with your leg when pedaling or to snag the wire… would be better on the top or front end of the pack vs. the side
  • The controller unit for this kit is built into a separate black box which adds clutter to the frame and means more wires have to be dealt with
  • On the demo bike I filmed and photographed above the battery was mounted to the downtube using the stock water bottle cage bosses and the controller box was fit onto the seat tube so there wasn’t anywhere to add a bottle… Consider an aftermarket saddle rail adapter, a rear carry rack with bottle bag or using a Camelbak
  • The LED console offers several readouts (mode, charge level and speed) but is still more basic than an LCD which could show trip distance, time, max speed etc. the unit they chose is fairly small, tough and more affordable so it’s not too bad
  • The battery pack has an independent on/off button built into it which has to be activated before the display panel is turned on, this extra step makes the pack easier to leave on accidentally and can be confusing if you forget and try to activate the bike just using the display
  • There are no lights built into this kit and I think it would be difficult to wire them in, I like when I can run everything off of one battery but you can always get some aftermarket lights that are rechargeable if you ride at night a lot
  • While the cadence sensing pedal assist worked alright, it only uses a five magnet system vs. 12 on a lot of newer builds and kits I’ve seen which means it is less responsive (especially in higher gears where pedal rotation can be slower at low speeds)
  • Gearless motors are very durable and operate without producing much noise but they do weigh more and this one is ~12 lbs, the battery is also a bit heavier because it’s a larger capacity pack so ~7 lbs
  • Sometimes gearless motors offer regenerative braking which can extend rides by ~10% but that feature was not included with this kit (likely to keep the price down)
  • There is no throttle-only mode with this kit, you have to enable one of three pedal assist settings in order to use the throttle and this means that any pedal movement can also activate the motor which could cause instability for some applications
  • The pedal assist sensor is not a clip-on design so you actually have to remove the crank arms in order to mount it, once it’s on however it feels solid and is actually quite responsive

Resources:

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Deafcat
1 day ago

Thank you for the feedback! Basically I guess I want BMX cool and rugged with cruiser comfort and commuter range. Is that so wrong?

Not at all, we have similar tastes!

If it were my winery/tour, I'd probably be using Stunners (if suspension is needed you could order them with front suspension forks, I bet Roshan could swing that).

they are rear IGH for low maintenance, ease of use. BBS02B mid-drive all the oomph necessary, and very long range.

Jghbg
1 day ago

Thank you for the feedback! Basically I guess I want BMX cool and rugged with cruiser comfort and commuter range. Is that so wrong?

Full disclosure, I live in Wine Country and have a wine tour company, @healdsburgtours . I’m contemplating adding ebike guided tours. So I need something that is easy to figure out, unisex styling, comfortable and dependable, with 50 miles of range. I bought an Elby, which I like but think a front suspension would be helpful. I also like the Nuvinni shifters on EVELO and perhaps others. Any and all suggestion will be very appreciated. Cheers!

PCDoctorUSA
2 days ago

I just discovered this forum after watching way too many reviews. Information overload! I am certain there are other threads that cover this, so feel,free to direct me there if so. I could use some help finding the best ebike for my needs. Here goes! My ideal bike would have: a cruiser style or upright riding position, midstep frame, beefy tires, lights, fenders, cargo rack, long range integrated battery, dependable and powerful motor with 28 mph capability, front shocks, and an easy, intuitive shifting or CVT. It will mostly be used on the road but needs to be able to handle light trails. Twist throttle would be nice. Hub motor or mid drive, just want it to be proven, durable and well warrantied. American made would be a bonus. Does this ebike exist? Budget is flexible but $2500 to $5,000 is preferred. I’ll spend more if it can be justified. I am probably asking for too much here, but thought I should at least get some input from the forum members who know a lot more than me. Thank you for any and all feedback. Cheers!
With your price range, it shouldn't be difficult at all to satisfy your wish list. I know you said that this would primarily be used on the road but can you tell us is this going to be a commuter bike or are you going on a cross-country trek? If the former, how far is the commute one-way and is it a level ride?

Jghbg
2 days ago

I just discovered this forum after watching way too many reviews. Information overload! I am certain there are other threads that cover this, so feel,free to direct me there if so. I could use some help finding the best ebike for my needs. Here goes! My ideal bike would have: a cruiser style or upright riding position, midstep frame, beefy tires, lights, fenders, cargo rack, long range integrated battery, dependable and powerful motor with 28 mph capability, front shocks, and an easy, intuitive shifting or CVT. It will mostly be used on the road but needs to be able to handle light trails. Twist throttle would be nice. Hub motor or mid drive, just want it to be proven, durable and well warrantied. American made would be a bonus. Does this ebike exist? Budget is flexible but $2500 to $5,000 is preferred. I’ll spend more if it can be justified. I am probably asking for too much here, but thought I should at least get some input from the forum members who know a lot more than me. Thank you for any and all feedback. Cheers!

John from Connecticut
2 days ago

I'd look for a larger front sprocket first, before tires, since a high cadence seems to be your main complaint. If that's not enough then I'd look at tires in the hope that reduces your effort, but the tires wont help if the cadence at 25-28 mph is already too high for you.

I've found that the Powerfly 7 knobby tires don't have a huge contact patch with the ground (since there's a lot of air between the knobs) and that whether I'm running lower tire pressure or higher pressure that my pedaling effort is about the same.

I also think that I was getting more wear in the center of my rear tire when I was pressuring up to 50psi for my rides on pavement. Iit's no harder to pedal at 40psi, but I'm in a hilly area where I don't get to ride above 20mph that often (I think our tire's recommended range is 30-55 psi). I'm going to leave it at 40psi for pavement and hope to even our my tire wear.

It's funny but when I had an XM700+ on order so I'd be able to go 28mph, I was pricing the cost to install a Rock Shox front fork and knobby tires to be able to ride off road. I'm happy with my slower Powerfly7 because I like to ride with my wife and she doesn't like to ride fast.

Hi Larry,
I've enjoyed your posts. I also have an XM700+ and have ordered a Powerfly 7 2017 ( hardtail ) . My plan is to use the Powerfly 7 on stone dust rails to trails rides,
any groomed trails and roads, but limited to 'back roads'. I tried my XM700+ on a stone dust trail, but didn't feel stable enough with the stock Schwalbe Energizer Plus
tires thus the Powerfly 7...The XM700+ will be for paved conditions.... How do like your Powerfly 7 off road, assuming you ride on stone dust etc ?
I'll never go true off roading so that is not a concern. I'm guessing the Powerfly performs well on paved roads?

Also I truly enjoy the XM700+ stock swept back handle bars, but Trek no longer carries them or I'd install them on my Powerfly 7. Did you stick with the stock
bars on your Powerfly ? I'm not comfortable with true flat bar/ Mtn bars and will be changing to something with a sweep. I installed a Bodyfloat seat post
on my XM700 because it was waaay too stiff, the Bodyfloat is great and made the bike very ridable for me... Is the Powerfly stiff like the XM700 ?
I've purchased a second Bodyfloat and was planning on installing it on my Powerfly. Lastly, how do you like your Powerfly 7 on the road?

Thanks in advance,
John from CT

Mike Burns
7 days ago

@Mike Burns I'm looking for my first ebike and Voltbike's offerings are definitely in my price range. I stumbled across Voltbike after seeing EBR's review of their Elegant model, but then got really interested in the Yukon. However, after reading some feedback on my recent post ("Any Yukon Commuters") I'm revisiting the Elegant. My biggest concern is how well the bike will hold up on the terrible roads over here. An elevated rail system is being built along my route so the roadway underneath is taking a beating from the heavy equipment. Riding on the sidewalk is illegal through business districts, which only encompasses a small portion of my route but that short time on the road can take a toll on a bike. Do you think the Elegant would hold up as a daily commuter?

Regarding the fenders, can they be removed? Is it possible to outfit it with better fitting fenders or modify the existing one enough so it's not an issue? In the EBR review of the Elegant, Court highlighted the flimsy fenders and their clearance.

If you have any experience with the Yukon 750, I'd love to hear your feedback on that post.

The Elegant should hold up fine. The frame is quite robust and the rack in welded on. The tires are wide enough to deal with rough roads without being so wide as to limit range. The battery and controller are identical to the Yukon. I can't comment on the long-term durability of the front fork but I haven't heard of any broken ones. As with any bicycle, check every single bolt when you buy it and every so often after that. Inspect your spokes regularly and keep them tensioned properly. If you have loose spokes, you will end up with bent wheels and broken spokes. Also, when you are about to hit a pothole or bump, get your butt off the saddle. Your legs are probably the best suspension out there! I see people and their bikes take jarring hits all the time that could have been avoided by rising off the saddle.

Fenders can easily be removed in less than 5 minutes. The front one is the problem. It is way too close to the tire. The back one visibly shakes (as do all bicycle fenders), but does not rattle or rub. Enlarging the slot on the front fender did not provide enough additional clearance. Reversing the metal bracket and positioning the fender above the fork brace instead of below works. You don't have road salt in Hawaii, so I would just remove it. I have ridden a bunch of fat bikes and owned one for a bit. If I was riding on the snow or sand, they are amazing. Might even consider a full-suspension one as my next normal off-road bike. Don't think they make great commuters because of the tires weird handling on pavement handling and their effect on range. I think 2-2.5" tires are the sweet spot for commuters with variable road conditions.

JamesY
1 week ago

This is what works for me. 1000w front hub DD motor with a 52v 10.5ah shark pack, 25 amp controller with cruise control and regenerative assist braking. 20 spd drivetrain with a gear range of 28" to 154" gear ratio.

First let me say that over 28 mph efficiency drops way off due to wind resistance, even in still air. Well it starts to have affect around 23 mph actually but gets exponentially worse and you will suck up the wh/mi even on flat ground like the image shows which used almost the whole charge.

Using a drop bar bike helps cut down the wind somewhat but still handles surprisingly well on single track and all the offload situations I have used it for over the past year from sea level to 11k. The two wheel drive feature works especially well in sandy areas, even with the narrowish >40c tires on 700c i23 tubeless rims @ 35psi +/-.

Also using the proper gear ratio and a decent amount of input of your choosing will help forward momentum, and efficiency and give you as much of a workout as you desire.

Flat ground still will eat up wh's if you have to stop and start a lot. Takes a good amount of energy to get back up to speed, even with active pedaling, but it is too much fun to be half way down the block before the cars from the light start going by you. My commute is a <40 mile r/t with about 1000' total elevation change and my average speed is consistently within this range but there is usually a pretty good headwind when I come home which is what this reflects also.

Interestingly it has taken me longer to do this route in my car than by bike. Mix of 2 lane, 4 lane with big shoulder, and neighborhood stop and go for 7 miles once I hit town. Grid lock just kind of fades out of the picture on a bicycle.

Good luck on your quest. The technology is out there.
Your bike is awesome

JRA
1 week ago

Hello!
i have a round trip commute of 34 miles (total). The road is mostly flat. I am looking for a fast class 3 bike that also offer offroad mode, that allows me to ride faster than 28 miles limit.

any recommendations?

thank you

This is what works for me. 1000w front hub DD motor with a 52v 10.5ah shark pack, 25 amp controller with cruise control and regenerative assist braking. 20 spd drivetrain with a gear range of 28" to 154" gear ratio.

First let me say that over 28 mph efficiency drops way off due to wind resistance, even in still air. Well it starts to have affect around 23 mph actually but gets exponentially worse and you will suck up the wh/mi even on flat ground like the image shows which used almost the whole charge.

Using a drop bar bike helps cut down the wind somewhat but still handles surprisingly well on single track and all the offload situations I have used it for over the past year from sea level to 11k. The two wheel drive feature works especially well in sandy areas, even with the narrowish >40c tires on 700c i23 tubeless rims @ 35psi +/-.

Also using the proper gear ratio and a decent amount of input of your choosing will help forward momentum, and efficiency and give you as much of a workout as you desire.

Flat ground still will eat up wh's if you have to stop and start a lot. Takes a good amount of energy to get back up to speed, even with active pedaling, but it is too much fun to be half way down the block before the cars from the light start going by you. My commute is a <40 mile r/t with about 1000' total elevation change and my average speed is consistently within this range but there is usually a pretty good headwind when I come home which is what this reflects also.

Interestingly it has taken me longer to do this route in my car than by bike. Mix of 2 lane, 4 lane with big shoulder, and neighborhood stop and go for 7 miles once I hit town. Grid lock just kind of fades out of the picture on a bicycle.

Good luck on your quest. The technology is out there.

1/4
harryS
1 week ago

I own both mid-drive and hub drive (geared), although these are kit motors. I also went to a Bike Expo and test rode a bunch of commercial e-bikes, some quite sophisticated and others probably worse than my home kits due to sloppy setup/maintenance. As long as the hub motor is reasonably light, I couldn't see much difference in handling, whether front wheel or rear wheel, for riding about town. I couldn't detect much power robbing cogging in the Evelo and Stromer direct drives. At 16 mph, all seemed to have enough power for me. Got to see what torque sensing felt too. Bottom line, all ebikes are fun on a demo day.

No single solution here. The Winnebago poster should tell us how he plans to use his bikes. I thought he was going to have a 40 foot monster, but the Revel isn't big . I would want a strong platform rack on a 2" hitch. A pair of fat tired 20" bikes for easier carrying, although they are heavy. Two monster fat bikes? A pair of mid drive mountain bikes. Light street bikes if he never goes into the woods? Range, ease of pedaling (if desired) and comfort matter first, along with price. Given a choice between throttle/pedal to 20 mph or pedal only to 28 mph, I would pick the throttle.

Mid drive who ride 25 mph on throttle only (although you can't buy this bike) report high gear/chain wear. I never take mine past 18 mph, and it's old bike with already worn gear/chain. They haven't gotten worse, although I put on a new chain this summer. I see posts from road bikers who do ride that fast on legs alone, and their chains don't last either. I think we can ignore this issue for mid drive.

I also figure we aren't supposed to ride up hills that we couldn't pedal in the lowest gear, but owners try to do this with a motor in the highest gear and smoke the notors Use the gears, go slow, and I think a 500W motor will do the job.

Mark Peralta
1 week ago

How many gears in a Tesla? (1) Are they slow off the line? Do they need more gears to climb hills?

Lots of posts here assume that Ebike motors need to "spin up" or that hub drives are slow off the line or that one drive train is "more efficient" than another due to torque multiplication that can take advantage of faster motor speeds.

DC motor have their highest torque at 0 rpm. Torque of a DC motor is mostly proportional to physical size. It is not the case that torque multiplication is important for ebikes unless the motor is too small (for example, a typical mid drive or geared hub drive) to provide enough torque to get up a hill. Big direct drive hubs have more torque to begin with and don't need any multiplication. And since the torque is there at the lowest speeds in any DC motor, a wheel speed rpm is fine.

Direct drive hubs have advantages - smoother, quieter, easier shifting, more efficient due to no mechanical losses, possibly more reliable due to fewer moving parts, less wear and tear on the drive train, and the ability to regenerate the battery (slightly) while riding. Mid drives have advantages - cheaper (do not underestimate the importance of this to manufacturers making design choices for their products), lighter, better front to back balance for going over big bumps (mountain bikes need mid drive) and no drag (albeit slight) from the motor when not pedalling.

And don't forget that a lot of the "feel" of an ebike is due to the controller systems that feed the motor juice and how they respond to pedalling, etc.

Teslas do have gear reduction in front of the one speed drive. But that is because a direct drive would require a physically huge motor to push a car without gear reduction, not because it would not work. E bikes can use direct drive with a reasonably sized hub motor.

Remember the 1 speed Tesla and just how fast it is before you buy the intuitively appealing but false argument that "torque multiplication" is important on a properly designed ebike and, in particular, that mid drives have an advantage over bigger hub drives in this regard.

How many gears in a Tesla? (1) Are they slow off the line? Do they need more gears to climb hills?

Tesla is not an ebike. The electric car trend goes toward single speed. The ebike trend goes toward light weight mid drive with multiple speeds. Two different things.

Lots of posts here assume that Ebike motors need to "spin up" or that hub drives are slow off the line or that one drive train is "more efficient" than another due to torque multiplication that can take advantage of faster motor speeds.

True, Bosch extensively did their research and development of their ebike motors, they actually engineered it so the efficiency window also falls within the efficient operating range of a human cyclist.
There is an efficiency window for an ebike motor.

DC motor have their highest torque at 0 rpm. Torque of a DC motor is mostly proportional to physical size. It is not the case that torque multiplication is important for ebikes unless the motor is too small (for example, a typical mid drive or geared hub drive) to provide enough torque to get up a hill. Big direct drive hubs have more torque to begin with and don't need any multiplication. And since the torque is there at the lowest speeds in any DC motor, a wheel speed rpm is fine.

That would be valid up to a limit. Try riding your hub drive and making stops along the way on a 30% grade hill. Your battery will drain much faster and your motor will quickly over heat. Sure it could go faster if given room to launch but the efficiency still goes down badly.

Tesla has been using AC motors not DC motors (for your information). Please be informed before you start your analogies and arguments. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/why-does-tesla-use-an-ac-motor.25917/page-2

Direct drive hubs have advantages - smoother, quieter, easier shifting, more efficient due to no mechanical losses, possibly more reliable due to fewer moving parts, less wear and tear on the drive train, and the ability to regenerate the battery (slightly) while riding. Mid drives have advantages - cheaper (do not underestimate the importance of this to manufacturers making design choices for their products), lighter, better front to back balance for going over big bumps (mountain bikes need mid drive) and no drag (albeit slight) from the motor when not pedalling.

Let's not forget that motor size and copper mass also has an inherent parasitic efficiency lose. The smaller the motor, the less parasitic lose.

Teslas do have gear reduction in front of the one speed drive. But that is because a direct drive would require a physically huge motor to push a car without gear reduction, not because it would not work. E bikes can use direct drive with a reasonably sized hub motor.

Actually, the automotive engineering vehicle propulsion guide for electric cars recommended a 2 speed transmission as adequate for the car's requirement, in contrast to a multiple speed transmission for the internal combustion engine cars. However, in actual practice the transmission did not hold up, so the solution was to use a more robust single speed with the gear ratio closer to the second gear for acceptable highway cruising but the motor has to be beefed up (HEAVIER) so it can endure a high power input (with assoc inc torque and heat) when moving from a stop or when climbing.
https://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/23/breaking-tesla-has-a-solution-for-their-transmission-woes-get/

Remember the 1 speed Tesla and just how fast it is before you buy the intuitively appealing but false argument that "torque multiplication" is important on a properly designed ebike and, in particular, that mid drives have an advantage over bigger hub drives in this regard

Once again. Tesla is not an ebike. The electric car trend goes toward more ROBUST single speed. The ebike trend goes toward LIGHT WEIGHT and EFFICIENT mid drive with multiple speeds. Two different things. You are making your own false argument.

1/1
indianajo
2 weeks ago

I've had zero problems with a geared hub on 15% grades. That is pretty radically steep. I measured one with a level & a scale; there are no warning "grade ahead" signs here. These grades are 50 to 100' long in my area, so no knowledge yet how heat buildup could cause thermal trip. I coast or pedal on the flat 60% of the time. The time I drove in Colorado from Chalmez to Alimosa there was a long 6% grade, and on highway 160 from Alimosa east there was a long 8% grade. I don't know how a geared hub would work there, but I would be nervous ridiing a bicycle at 12 mph on a main highway like that, anyway.
All these blanket statements about how bad hubs are on grades don't consider the difference between geared hubs, and direct drive hubs. Electric motors are efficient spinning at the AC drive frequency, and very inefficient lugging. I learned that in the factory, where proper reduction to make a conveyor motor spin in the right range affects motor life greatly.
The level of investment of power wheel versus hub drive is waaay different. I've got $250 in my bike with hub drive, and $430 for the 15 AH battery. Hub drive allowed me to adapt a bike with an obsolete crankset for pedal speed pickup, something no mid-drive vendor website was willing to address. My rear sprockets aren't even compatible with mid drive ; since 1995 chains have been narrower. If the power wheel only lasts a year, $200 more next year wouldn't annoy me greatly. If the failure happens on the road, with the one-way clutch in the hub, I can always pedal home just like the old way, with no extra drag.
I'm not trying 28 mph and I'm not doing burnouts or anything that would radically stress the probably plastic reduction gears.
If there is anything I don't like about my $680 conversion, it is that the disk brake rotor won't fit in the front fork. I'm not going to run over 15 mph anyway except on short downhills in a very rural area: not with rim brakes

mrgold35
2 weeks ago

I've had my his/her Radrovers for over a year and put +3400 miles between them work commuting, traveling, and trail riding. The Radrover, Teo, and Volt will be very similar riding experiences if you need a fat tire ebike. Fat tires are very comfy and capable if you need to transition anywhere from sandy beaches to paved road on the same ride. Plan on getting a suspension seatpost (suntour, bodyfloat, thudbuster). The spring front forks do provide damping on rough terrain and work for my type of riding. Very easy to use my Radrover as an utility ebike because it has a lot of capacity of 290lbs of rider+gear limit.

There are slight differences in brakes, battery capacity, PAS levels, frame sizes, riding positions, and how the throttle is used. At the time I was looking last year; it was mostly Volt, Rad, and Sondors. I scratched Sondors because being under powered and 30 day warranty. I ended up scratching Volt because of forward leaning riding position, lack of bottle cages, no ergo hand grips, didn't have full 750w throttle at any PAS level like the Rad, and watts seems to be reduced as battery levels dropped on the Volt compared to max power at any battery level for the Rad.

A few downsides with my Rad or other fat tire bikes in this price range are:
- they are big, bulky, long, and heavy (especially in the rear). The Rad is a little over 60lbs out the box, 53lbs without the battery, and my Rad is about 70lbs fully loaded with rack, rack bag, accessories, and gear (flat kit, tools, locks, etc...). My wife cannot lift the Rad on our Saris platform rack even at 53lbs.
- Can be very tough to pedal if you run out of power. You will be walking these bike up an incline if you run out of power.
- The bike parts can be low or middle of the road quality (brakes, suspension forks, derailleur, tires, pedals, etc...).

Verde
2 weeks ago

SIMI VALLEY, Calif. (Interbike 2017) – No matter the adventure, IZIP, a leader in fun-focused electric bikes, has a bike that will amplify your fun so you can travel further and faster. Whether you’re looking to explore endless miles of unknown dirt roads and trails, change your commute to work by skipping the car ride in favor of your city’s bike paths, or spending your weekend cruising along the coast in comfort, IZIP will enable and inspire you.

Heading into this year’s Interbike trade show, IZIP unveils four new models for 2018 that span a variety of riding styles that integrate modern performance – from pavement to trails.

E3 Moda (MSRP $3,749)
Bold style compliments practicality in the speedy new E3 Moda bike that combines a max 28 MPH pedal-assist German-made Brose motor that’s integrated into the downtube with bright lights and a rear rack for cargo versatility. A workhorse commuter, the Moda efficiently clocks miles on the way to work or while you're getting some extra exercise in on the way to yoga class. With a 504Wh battery, 27.5-inch wheels for fun and stability, disc brakes, and Shimano Deore 10-speed drivetrain, the Moda, simply put, is a practical speedster.

E3 Moda

E3 Moda

E3 Dash (MSRP $2,699)
The reputable E3 Dash is a proven performer that gets you where you need to go … fast. Well known in speed pedal-assist circles as a seriously fun transporter, the Dash flattens hills and takes on long commutes with ease. Sporting a 28 MPH TranzX Center Motor, 700c wheels, RockShox Paragon front suspension fork, robust alloy fenders, and a rear pannier rack, potholes and bumps are no match for the Dash as you comfortably ride in style.

E3 Dash

E3 Zuma (MSRP $2,299)
The E3 Zuma, inspired by the beach lifestyle found at world famous Zuma Beach in southern California, blends comfort with style. The relaxed frame geometry makes it feel like your flip-flops never left the ground, but the bike remains perfectly balanced with a low center of gravity thanks to a downtube-mounted battery pack and powerful mid-drive motor. The Zuma’s long-range 417Wh battery, 26-inch wheels, disc brakes, and lightweight aluminum alloy frame powers weekend surf adventures, as well as mid-week errands around town.

E3 Zuma

E3 Zuma

E3 Peak DS (MSRP $4,599)
With 130mm of RockShox full-suspension, 27.5-inch all-mountain wheels, and Enduro-inspired geometry, the new E3 Peak DS eMTB is built to conquer the toughest terrain – up and down. The super-responsive 6061 aluminum ally frame is built with proven trail engineering to inspire any rider, but it's the best-in-class Bosch Performance CX mid-motor with a 500Wh battery that really amps things up. Magura disc brakes, SRAM NX 1X 11-speed drivetrain, and short chainstays give the Peak DS excellent handling performance for an unforgettable ride on your favorite dirt.

E3 Peak DS

IZIP is also leading the charge in helping preserve our environment with its new, first in the cycling industry Call2Recycle battery-recycling program. Batteries contain hazardous materials, and if dumped or disposed of incorrectly the harmful elements can find their way into our water sources and adds to pollution. IZIP’s program disposes of old batteries in an environmentally responsible manner, and collection sites are located throughout the U.S. and Canada. After collecting and sorting, the batteries are processed and turned into new batteries, stainless steel products, and other products. For more, please check: call2recycle.org.

About IZIP
No matter how you ride, IZIP has a fun, fast, and efficient ebike for you. From commuters, cruisers, and cargo bikes to full-suspension, trail, and touring models, IZIP covers every riding option for leisure, trails, and pavement. With more than 10 years of experience in the ebike industry, IZIP is now a veteran and a leader in ebike technology in the U.S. A division of Accell North America, IZIP is supported by a network of authorized dealers and backed by the Electric Bike Competence Center of North America. For more about IZIP, please check: izipelectric.com.

MEDIA CONTACT: Keith Cozzens, Verde Brand Communications, keith@verdepr.com, 970-259-3555 x122

1/6
Court
2 weeks ago

I've been doing some more Gazelle e-bike reviews and they recently sent me this press release about a new model called the Avenue so I wanted to share it:

INTRODUCING THE GAZELLE AVENUE
The Perfect Bike For An Urban Lifestyle

Monday, October 2, 2017 — SANTA CRUZ, CA - Gazelle - www.gazellebikes.com - Introduces the Gazelle Avenue, a secure and stable eBike equipped with Shimano STEPS intelligent drivetrain that is perfect for the urban commuter. The Avenue is ideal for everyday activities whether picking up dinner or commuting to work, the capable Avenue is the best choice for a reliable, safe and swift ride.

The Avenue features a lightweight aluminum frame that is balanced to perfection with a low-step design, single tube, and integrated cables. The geometry is based around 26” wheels and optimized for comfort with a 68-degree headtube angle and 70-degree seat tube angle that creates a relaxed and stable ride. The 250 watt Shimano STEPS has an average range of 50 miles and a max distance that can approach almost 80 miles. Magura brakes provide dependable, controlled safety with swift and smooth braking. Combining design and performance, the Avenue never disappoints. Enjoy the ride!

Features:

Shimano STEPS
36V / 504 watt battery
8-speed Shimano internal hub
Magura HS22 hydraulic brakes
Frame: Low-Step
Suspension Seatpost
Suspension Front Fork
Unisex
Available colors: Saturn Blue Mat (with more colors to follow)
MSRP: $2,899 (limited edition price)

ABOUT GAZELLE BIKES
Gazelle’s history is very much the history of the bicycle as a popular means of urban transportation. Their original Dutch style comfort bike won over the hearts of the Netherlands 125 years ago and their continued design and technology have people all over the world falling in love today. Today, Gazelle remains at the forefront of invention to make cycling more enjoyable and accessible. Gazelle is an integral part of Dutch cycling heritage and have kept in cadence with today’s global innovation with their new line of e-bikes. Gazelle has positioned themselves as the benchmark for urban mobility - traditionally and contemporarily. Learn more at www.gazellebikes.com/usa/

1/8
WilliamT
3 weeks ago

I added a second battery to get more range from my cargo bike. For me, I added a separate 350 watt front geared motor kit. The second battery sits behind the seat, in a bag, bolted to the rear deck. The bag is a perfect fit for the dolphin battery.

Sometimes I have to carry a 17 inch laptop, in addition my gym clothes, dress clothes, shoe trees, etc. The second kit really helps out a lot. 90% of the time, I only use the front motor and use the rear as an temp assist for steeper hills. This increases my range from 15-20 miles to 40 miles. I keep the front assist at 3/5 and the rear at 1/5. When the front batteries start to drain down to 40%, I increase the assist in the rear.

This lets me go safely for 2 day of commuting before charging. With a full load, I still average around 17-18 mph that those assist levels.

1/1
GVbike
3 weeks ago

>Can you let us know which fork you put in and if you had any issue with the replacement.
I used Manitou minute expert 140mm travel fork Tapered Steer, QR15, 650B, disc - paid around $220 in amazon.

That said, any Tapered steer Disc fork for 27.5 wheel should fit fine.
There were a couple of issues:
1. I wanted full fenders on the front. This is a truly great bike to ride but the front fenders were awfully short (the only negative in an otherwise terrific bike).
I opted for planet bike speed EZ fenders and they fit perfectly).
2. Rather than forking off more money to have a suspension fork with integrated light mounts, I moved the lights to handlebar and secured it with a nice clamp - looks and fits great now.

I didn't end up changing the rear fender because I love the daytime running lights on this bike and rear fender has the necessary wiring for the integrated rear lights. For now, functionality prevails over aesthetics and the rear fender stays.

>I had inquired with Karmic about doing something like that as well as other possible customizations, and was politely told I should go look elsewhere.
I did and I got the same reply as well. I also realized that this bike is nearly perfect and even when you spend extra dollars to bring this bike closer to perfection, you would still end up saving lot more than buying either a stromer st1-x or a turbo vado 6.0.

koben s + tubless conversion of the included wtb horizon tires + suntour suspension seat post + ergo grips + manitou fork + speed EZ fender = bike that is nearly $1000 cheaper than vado 6.0 but rides so much better than a specialized vado.

>Happy to see Hong is welcoming your customization :)
If only Hong adds these options as standard in a price range between $3.5 to $4k, many potential buyers of st1-x , vado and riese & muller charger/delite would be riding a better bike (koben s) for a cheaper cost.

Also, if he offers larger capacity battery options (800kwhr or more) for an additional fee in the future - this would be the perfect e-bike on the market IMO.

john peck
3 weeks ago

I too have put 100+ miles on my CCS, (converted from kilometers); I can't seem to change to miles in settings. The overall
performance is outstanding. Once you're familiar with the shifter & modes, hills & traffic are a breeze. One thing I wish it had
is a 52/36 compact chainring. Why? Because I want to tour on this bike. The 36T would give me a mechanical advantage
for powerless pedaling to extend range over greater distances between charging opportunities. It wouldn't even need
a front derailleur; simply manually place the chain on the 36T when you want to go powerless. Another thing I'd like
would be some arrangement for a mirror. I managed a DIY juryrig that's acceptable, but it required modifying the mirror.
Don't get me wrong; it's an amazing machine with capabilities you won't find in bikes costing twice as much. The only
limitation is your body's ability to keep pedaling. I could ride this thing 'til I drop. (21ah pack)

Ross_Dr
3 weeks ago

Hi everyone,

A few months back now i bought myself a new e-bike which is a cyclotricity stealth 1000w, so i thought i would do a review of it now that i have had a decent amount of time riding it.

First off i ordered it directly from cyclotricity and the wait time from actual order to delivery was very fast, i made the order for the next day and it was with me the following day. The bike that i ordered was a stealth 1000w 16AH. The bike came restricted to 250w, in order to de-restrict i had to sign a disclaimer sheet and then they emailed me the code to unlock its full power for off road use only. with my order i also included a throttle which i was told would make the off road experience even better.

First impressions were on road doing my 5.6 mile commute to where i work and back every day, the bike was capable of around 16 miles an hour under standard pas and if i pedaled hard enough even more but i was doing this on my own leg power. i found the gearing for the 250w mode to be sufficient, and the brakes were good for stopping when you had to slow down quickly, there were 160mm disc rotors and mechanical calipers. the ride itself was very smooth as the stealth uses hybrid semi slick tires. the front suspension took most of your every day bumps out of the ride and the air cushioned seat helped at the back of the bike.

I took the bike out to one of the tracks i have taken my other bikes to before, these being all mountain and free ride bikes and did some of the forest roads and a little light trail riding on the 1000w mode. once you de-restrict the bike to 1000w its give you a lot of torque and a fair bit of speed too. along flat i was able to get around 30mph and the most i got on a downhill slope was 36.5. The throttle made my life a lot easier going uphill and over rougher parts. The semi slick tires had enough grip in the corners because the tread is grippy enough at the edges. The only notable thing is that the suspension would struggle if you were to go on a track that was too rough for it.

Over the time i have been using it i looked into a couple of new parts, the originals worked fine but i fancied some extra stopping power for off road and an LCD with a remote to make pas changes easier when off road also. i had spoken to Cyclotricity while making these upgrades and they advised the parts i added, they were advised to me on the basis that these parts will be available direct from Cyclotricity in the very near future. The hydraulic brakes, which are Tektro ones, have much more power than the original mechanical one and they are on 7 inch rotors which means they will stay nice and cool at high speeds. the LCD has a remote and a little more information about the motor during use, motor power etc. I found both of these upgrades made a noticeable difference to the bike.

The range of the 16AH battery on 250w with a combination of pas levels was around 35-40 miles depending also on terrain and on 1000w mode if i mostly used throttle off road range was about 16 miles or less. the running gear is also still running great with regular service intervals.

I hope this review is useful should you be looking for a new e bike

Ross

1/9
Timpo
3 weeks ago

hey all, my wife and are kicking around the idea of using an ebike for an around town fast food delivery service. Ill list my setup idea as far as the bike is concerned but I'd like feedback from those with more ebike exp as to wether it would be viable or not.

The bike- Juiced CC Air with the ext 12ah battery. I'm going with the 2 12ah batts as they would have longer range than 1 21ah batt for almost the same cost. There is also the option of purchasing two CCAs and keep one stored as a backup but use both batts as needed.

I looked at the ODK but I don't think its the right bike plus the u500 is sold out and who knows when of if it'll be back and so are the parts needed to upgrade a u350 to be as useful, so its pretty much out of the running.

I'm picking the Air over the S due to its rigid fork making front rack mounting less of a hassle- here is the rack I'm looking at - http://m.waldsports.com/index.cfm/store/front-baskets/257gb-black-ewalds-multi-fit-front-rack/

Rear rack is a PDW payload which i already have on hand and will prob slap on a set of their soda pop fenders as well.

Im not hell bent of getting the Juiced bike but just looking at costs, speed and fairly reputable company it seemed like a solid choice. Alternate suggestions are appreciated.

So are ebikes at the point where they'd make viable workhorse delivery vehicles? Post your thoughts.

Thanks.
The CC Air is not really a cargo bike.. have you considered the Juiced U500?
https://shop.juicedbikes.com/collections/e-bikes/products/odk-u500-v3

It comes with 15Ah battery but long range 32Ah option available.

harryS
3 weeks ago

Not everyone is an ebike electrician either, and one might be needed here.

Dan may just need a new battery. From what I've read, Yuba doesn't sell parts or batteries for their older models, so owners have to scrounge around. It's a common battery from 3-4 years ago, and I see posts here from users trying to find something like it. They all look similar, but the plugs in the bottom might be a bit different, so unless one finds an "official" source, it could be a gamble. Dan will have to check with Yuba to see where they send their customers. If it costs $800, well that's a fair price for an exact replacement, in my opinion.

Per this manual, this cargo bike runs a 200W front Ezee motor and a 36V 10AH battery. The latter is rated 360 watt-hours. Now being a tinker and conscious of my burgeoning ebike budget, my plan would be to replace with a higher AH downtube battery for under $500 from a US vendor. By the way, any AH rating equal to or higher than the old one will suffice, but higher AH gives more range.

I would expect the wiring to consist of just cutting the existing two power wires and re-splicing to the new battery cradle. Old charger will work, but might need a new charge plug, but a charger is about $50. If the bike has mounts for water bottles on the downtube, the battery cradles attach there, but it should be augmented with hose clamps. Clamps will work if there are no mounts.

Then again, I find bike mechanics kind of fun. If I had this Yuba, I'd probably take off the display and controller and upgrade it to 48 volts. That would be about $100 in parts.

Va. Bch. Electric Bike Center
3 weeks ago

hey all, my wife and are kicking around the idea of using an ebike for an around town fast food delivery service. Ill list my setup idea as far as the bike is concerned but I'd like feedback from those with more ebike exp as to wether it would be viable or not.

The bike- Juiced CC Air with the ext 12ah battery. I'm going with the 2 12ah batts as they would have longer range than 1 21ah batt for almost the same cost. There is also the option of purchasing two CCAs and keep one stored as a backup but use both batts as needed.

I looked at the ODK but I don't think its the right bike plus the u500 is sold out and who knows when of if it'll be back and so are the parts needed to upgrade a u350 to be as useful, so its pretty much out of the running.

I'm picking the Air over the S due to its rigid fork making front rack mounting less of a hassle- here is the rack I'm looking at - http://m.waldsports.com/index.cfm/store/front-baskets/257gb-black-ewalds-multi-fit-front-rack/

Rear rack is a PDW payload which i already have on hand and will prob slap on a set of their soda pop fenders as well.

Im not hell bent of getting the Juiced bike but just looking at costs, speed and fairly reputable company it seemed like a solid choice. Alternate suggestions are appreciated.

So are ebikes at the point where they'd make viable workhorse delivery vehicles? Post your thoughts.

Thanks.
Pedego Stetch..hot box rear, cold box on front rack

Voodoosix
3 weeks ago

hey all, my wife and are kicking around the idea of using an ebike for an around town fast food delivery service. Ill list my setup idea as far as the bike is concerned but I'd like feedback from those with more ebike exp as to wether it would be viable or not.

The bike- Juiced CC Air with the ext 12ah battery. I'm going with the 2 12ah batts as they would have longer range than 1 21ah batt for almost the same cost. There is also the option of purchasing two CCAs and keep one stored as a backup but use both batts as needed.

I looked at the ODK but I don't think its the right bike plus the u500 is sold out and who knows when of if it'll be back and so are the parts needed to upgrade a u350 to be as useful, so its pretty much out of the running.

I'm picking the Air over the S due to its rigid fork making front rack mounting less of a hassle- here is the rack I'm looking at - http://m.waldsports.com/index.cfm/store/front-baskets/257gb-black-ewalds-multi-fit-front-rack/

Rear rack is a PDW payload which i already have on hand and will prob slap on a set of their soda pop fenders as well.

Im not hell bent of getting the Juiced bike but just looking at costs, speed and fairly reputable company it seemed like a solid choice. Alternate suggestions are appreciated.

So are ebikes at the point where they'd make viable workhorse delivery vehicles? Post your thoughts.

Thanks.

JRA
4 weeks ago

Greetings. I am Dan from Boston. I use my electric Yuba eMundo for kid pick up groceries, and general schlepping. It is my non car car! Anyway the range is getting pretty low, and I am wondering if anyone out there can get 20 miles out of cargo bike and if so what are they riding. I am looking to upgrade or replace this with something that can get me downtown and back on one charge. Currently I can do about 8 miles before it wears out.//

thanks Dan de Angeli
https://photos.app.goo.gl/m8jOb4HCoxK1HHVd2

Rather than ditching what obviously is still a perfectly good bicycle have you considered just upgrading the components? Repurposing is not a crime.

Start with this: https://lunacycle.com/bafang-bbs02-kit/
Also get a disc compatible front wheel and add a disc brake which shouldn't cost more than $250 and for $1000 or so you are where you want to be in regards to power and range and with better stopping power.

Recycle the old parts responsibly to someone on CL that wants them for cheap and voila!

(Ann and I are on kind of the same wavelength)

Dewey
4 weeks ago

Battery research promises significant range increases and lower charge times for the same weight or lighter ebike batteries for the same range as present, and tesla’s Giga-factory should bring down the cost per kWh

http://ebiketips.co.uk/content/news/new-battery-technology-promises-to-treble-e-bike-range-581

Motor manufacturers are bringing to market shaft drive and belt driven motors to improve reliability which is important for future Ebike bikeshare - The one being trialed/experimented with in DC starting next week uses a 250w front hub motor but is the type of system most needing that sort of reliability and range improvement.

https://cyclingindustry.news/bafang-debuts-first-motorized-e-shaft-drive-system-for-public-bikes/
https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/ebike-bikeshare-comes-to-dc.14555/

Bosch this year introduced ABS for ebikes, as bicycle and motor sports continue to evolve in different directions we will see improvements in pedal bicycle and motorcycle technology bleed over to the ebike market and vice versa e.g. the Dutch last fall introduced a new speed pedelec helmet standard, as materials technology improves and new testing standards adopted we may see future helmets as strong as a DOT helmet but light as a bicycle helmet becoming the norm for faster ebike riders

Robert Wetzel
2 years ago

Nice review as always - you guys at the other side of the big lake sure have not only the nicer landscapes, but also the nicer e-bike laws. All we get here is 250 Watts / 25 km/h or 500 Watts / 45 km/h but in the latter case you already need a driving license, a helmet, a license plate, are not allowed on bike paths and so on.....bummer.

Anyways, is there a chance you might make a more general video explaining the differences between the geared and gearless hub motors? What are the respective advantages, and so on....
Thanks for the good work anyways, keep it up!

Robert Wetzel
2 years ago

+ElectricBikeReview.com
Wow, thanks for the quick and exhaustive answer! I can see how you are a very light person by most standards, and this affects engine performance of course. At 230 lbs, and another 70 lbs by the bike, I'd often wish for more than just 250 Watts.
Thank you also so much for the link, I'll read it right away. Your verdict about mid-drives is surprising, as most other reviews I came across laude the Yamaha over the Bosch as the former is supposed to be more powerful (70 Nm vs. 60 Nm, no idea how many lb ft that would be in your whacky system ;-)) as well as being quieter.
What positively surprised me about the Bosch was its endurance - we rented two mid-drive pedelecs in Switzerland and the battery lasted a little shy of 50 km with about 1500 meters height difference, and performed decently until the very end.
With my cheap system power will noticeably fall when passing about 70% battery.

ElectricBikeReview.com
2 years ago

+Robert Wetzel Yeah... I've heard about the restrictive laws in some parts of Europe. Fun fact, the 750 watt 20 mph law was passed under George W. Bush here in the US... it's like one of the only cool things he did while in office :P

Great question on the hub motors, I've created an article about it here: http://electricbikereview.com/guides/difference-between-ebike-motors/ with some great pictures and I'll probably do a video in the future. The short answer is that geared is lighter, peppier and usually more affordable but doesn't offer power regeneration and might not last as long (gears rubbing inside vs. just magnets). I'm an active type of rider and I don't weigh much so I usually choose geared. These days I've really developed a taste for mid-drive motors and you can get these awesome kits with shift sensing (to reduce wear and strain on your chain) from e-RAD which offer pedal assist and throttle actuation: http://electricbikereview.com/category/e-rad/ otherwise I really like Bosch (Impulse and Yamaha are pretty good as well but not as responsive and "quick" feeling in my opinion).

DrZarkloff
2 years ago

still the Sonders is more bike for the money. when will these kit manufacturers get with the program?

ElectricBikeReview.com
2 years ago

+DrZarkloff The Sondors has been a decent deal for people in the US who got them delivered. I still get emails from people in the UK and Australia that haven't received theres (in fact I heard most of Australia was refunded because of legal restrictions?) not everyone wants a fat bike frame so kits like this can be great, Electric Bike Outfitters sells several others for even less like the "EBO Commuter" that's rated at 350 watts just like the Sondors http://electricbikereview.com/electric-bike-outfitters/ebo-commuter-kit/

James Jacocks
2 years ago

Court, you have a strong international following-very good show! Yes, Denver is a great place to live (or ride bikes). I an looking for a front wheel kit for my beloved Fisher hybrid from the early nineties. It is a light bike with a bumper shock. Any ideas? Great vid, per usual!

Flo Mo
2 years ago

Your bike tests are cool. Now I feel like I'm in Denver/Colorado. :) It's great to ride with you on the test bikes. You make very good shots. Thanks for that. Greetings from Berlin.

LUIZ FELIPE MENDONÇA RIBEIRO
2 years ago

Congratulations on video

ElectricBikeReview.com
2 years ago

+LUIZ FELIPE MENDONÇA RIBEIRO Thanks, doing my best, lots more to come ;)