Electric Bike Outfitters EBO Front Range Kit Review

Ebo Front Range Electric Bike Kit Review 1
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Kit
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Gearless Motor Cassette
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Pack And Controller
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Led Console And Twist Throttle
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range 500 Watt Direct Drive Motor
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Lock And Power Button
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Controller Box
Ebo Front Range Electric Bike Kit Review 1
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Kit
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Gearless Motor Cassette
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Pack And Controller
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Led Console And Twist Throttle
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range 500 Watt Direct Drive Motor
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Lock And Power Button
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Controller Box

Summary

  • A powerful gearless hub motor kit capable of being installed as a front or rear wheel, sturdy and relatively quiet
  • Gearless motors tend to be heavier and this one is ~12 lbs and does not offer a regeneration option for regenerative braking
  • The display console is more basic (LED lights vs. an LCD screen) but also takes up less space, the kit comes stock with trigger throttle but has a twist throttle as an opion
  • Quality Samsung cells in the battery pack, larger capacity at 14.5 amp hours, solid one year warranty on all parts

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Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

Electric Bike Outfitters

Model:

EBO Front Range

Price:

$1,083

Suggested Use:

Urban, Trail, Commuting

Electric Bike Class:

Throttle on Demand (Class 2)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

30 Day Return, 1 Year Comprehensive

Availability:

United States

Model Year:

20152016

Bicycle Details

Battery Weight:

7 lbs (3.17 kg)

Motor Weight:

12 lbs (5.44 kg)

Gearing Details:

9 (Single Speed or Shimano 6 or 7 Speed Cassettes or SunRace 8 and 9 Speed Cassettes)

Brake Details:

Mechanical 5 Brand Levers with Motor Inhibitors

Rims:

Aluminum Alloy

Spokes:

13 Gauge Stainless Steel, 36 Spoke

Wheel Sizes:

26 in (66.04cm)27.5 in (69.85cm)28 in (71.12cm)

Tube Details:

Schrader Valve

Accessories:

Female USB Charge Port on Battery Pack, EBO Quick Connect Anti-Water Wiring, Optional Black or Silver Motor Color, Optional Black or White Battery Color, Optional Twist Throttle, Optional Wuxing Twist Throttle

Other:

Compatible with Disc Brakes or Caliper Style Brakes (Clamp Diameter 22.2 mm), Compatible with 100 mm, 120 mm, or 135 mm Dropout Sizes, Compatible with 26", 27.5" or 700C Wheel Size, 22 Amp Controller

Electronic Details

Motor Type:

Front-Mounted Gearless Direct Drive Hub, Rear-Mounted Gearless Direct Drive Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

500 watts

Battery Brand:

Samsung

Battery Voltage:

36 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

14.5 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

522 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

25 miles (40 km)

Estimated Max Range:

45 miles (72 km)

Display Type:

Fixed LED Console

Readouts:

Mode (Low, Med, High), Speed (5-33 MPH), Charge Level (1-4)

Drive Mode:

Trigger Throttle, Twist Throttle, Cadence Sensing Pedal Assist

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph)

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Written Review

The EBO Front Range Kit is a mixed bag for me. I appreciate the more powerful 500 watt motor but given the gearless direct-drive design it weighs more than the more affordable planetary geared kits. Gearless motors are said to be tougher (no gears rubbing inside) and often allow for regenerative braking but that isn’t an option here. What you get is a relatively affordable, medium-power ebike kit. It operates quietly and should last well (you get a one year warranty which is great) but the display is more basic and there’s not throttle-only mode which can come in handy for off-road riding on bumpy terrain.

Even though the Front Range kit is compatible as a front or rear wheel motor, I would almost always choose to put it in the rear. The added weight in the front would definitely impact steering and might even spin out on loose terrain. At the rear, you get a more solid mounting point (especially if you’ve got a suspension fork up front as the demo bike I tried did) and you’re still balancing some of the weight forward with the downtube-mounted battery. The battery is actually one of my favorite parts of this kit because it uses quality Samsung cells, offers more capacity than some of the smaller kits and is easy to remove or lock onto the frame. This pack style is called a “Dolphin” and it can power your bike as well as a USB accessory given the female port on the right side. I’d mostly use this off the bike as a backup power source because when you’re pedaling it’s easy to snag this are of the pack (and any protruding USB plug and wire) with your shoe or leg.

I accidentally snagged the power cable running to the motor on this kit during the video review above and that goes to show how cable management can be a chore on any ebike kit. It’s nice to have your cables all zip tied up but even the best cable management can still look a bit tacky… that’s why all-black frames are a good choice because the cables blend in more. In addition to cables, this kit also has an independent controller box which can be mounted to the seat tube or possibly a rear rack. It’s just one more thing to deal with and it completely takes up the space for any kind of accessory or bottle cage when paired with the downtube style battery.

Overall, this is a solid package but generic gearless motors aren’t my personal preference. I’m a light weight guy who likes to pedal so I tend to opt for geared hubs or mid-drives. Some ebikes like the Stromer ST2 and Specialized Turbo show off what’s possible when you go high-end gearless because their motors are light, fast and offer regeneration but you’ll spend quite a bit more for that performance. I feel like the EBO Front Range motor could benefit from a 48 volt battery here to take full advantage of the extra copper windings inside but as it stands you’re going to get more power and drive than with some of their lighter kits. For true power however, I’m more excited about the EBO Mountaineer for just $100 more.

Pros:

  • There’s a built-in female USB port at the top right portion of the battery pack and this can be used to power a phone or other mobile device while riding the bike or as a backup source of power off the bike
  • Solid value at just over $1k considering you get a powerful 500 watt gearless motor and an oversized 14.5 amp hour battery! Most ebike kits offer 350 watt motors with a 10 ah battery, the cells on this bike are also Samsung and I trust that they are higher quality
  • Not only does Electric Bike Outfitters offer a one year comprehensive warranty, they also provide a 30 day money back guarantee and in my experience have been very willing to do custom swaps to get you the right wheel size or a different throttle unit (twist vs. trigger) free of charge or for very little money
  • Great wiring hardware (color coded makes it easier to setup and repair), the 5 Star brake levers are more generic but they do include motor inhibitor switches to cut power whenever you barke
  • Pedal assist is great for conserving the battery and getting some exercise and three modes is alright but I love that you’ve also got a throttle that can override at any time to help power up a hill or pass a fellow cyclist
  • The hub motor design on this kit is compatible with disc brakes but you can also use standard rim brakes as well, the one thing that requires a changeout is hydraulic brakes because the included levers only work with mechanical systems, you could use hydraulic levers of your own but if they don’t have electronic brake inhibitors built in you won’t be operating as safely (especially given the “all the time” pedal assist design)
  • The kit comes in several configurations to replace a 26″, 27.5″ or 700c wheel, to fit a 100 mm, 120 mm, or 135 mm dropout, and to work as either a front or rear wheel drive kit (though I’d highly recommend rear given the weight of the motor so as not to adversely impact steering)
  • The battery pack snaps on and off easily and quickly for convenient charging or lighter weight transport, you also get a solid locking core built into the battery for when it’s mounted to the frame
  • Especially for trail and mountain use the default trigger throttle works very well as it does not compromise your grip though it might take more space on your bars than the twist throttle (I just don’t like full-grip twists)

Cons:

  • I like the USB charging port but it’s positioned on the side of the battery which makes it easier to bump with your leg when pedaling or to snag the wire… would be better on the top or front end of the pack vs. the side
  • The controller unit for this kit is built into a separate black box which adds clutter to the frame and means more wires have to be dealt with
  • On the demo bike I filmed and photographed above the battery was mounted to the downtube using the stock water bottle cage bosses and the controller box was fit onto the seat tube so there wasn’t anywhere to add a bottle… Consider an aftermarket saddle rail adapter, a rear carry rack with bottle bag or using a Camelbak
  • The LED console offers several readouts (mode, charge level and speed) but is still more basic than an LCD which could show trip distance, time, max speed etc. the unit they chose is fairly small, tough and more affordable so it’s not too bad
  • The battery pack has an independent on/off button built into it which has to be activated before the display panel is turned on, this extra step makes the pack easier to leave on accidentally and can be confusing if you forget and try to activate the bike just using the display
  • There are no lights built into this kit and I think it would be difficult to wire them in, I like when I can run everything off of one battery but you can always get some aftermarket lights that are rechargeable if you ride at night a lot
  • While the cadence sensing pedal assist worked alright, it only uses a five magnet system vs. 12 on a lot of newer builds and kits I’ve seen which means it is less responsive (especially in higher gears where pedal rotation can be slower at low speeds)
  • Gearless motors are very durable and operate without producing much noise but they do weigh more and this one is ~12 lbs, the battery is also a bit heavier because it’s a larger capacity pack so ~7 lbs
  • Sometimes gearless motors offer regenerative braking which can extend rides by ~10% but that feature was not included with this kit (likely to keep the price down)
  • There is no throttle-only mode with this kit, you have to enable one of three pedal assist settings in order to use the throttle and this means that any pedal movement can also activate the motor which could cause instability for some applications
  • The pedal assist sensor is not a clip-on design so you actually have to remove the crank arms in order to mount it, once it’s on however it feels solid and is actually quite responsive

Resources:

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Ann M.
3 days ago

Named after the historic Junto Club started by Benjamin Franklin a couple of hundred years ago, the Junto Gen1 electric bike is an incredibly well thought out design at a very reasonable price, $2,200. Designed for all around city riding, the bottom bracket, headset & hub bearings are all sealed, so you're not going to get road grit & water out of the bearings. Junto chose a very high torque 350 watt geared Bafang motor and a larger 48V 11ah lithium pack for better range & overall lighter weight. With the weight balanced a little to the front, you have more positive steering and quicker reaction, much like a better made mountain bike and offsetting the weight of the rear hub motor. Note too the reinforced eyelets on these wheels; a much stronger build. And with Junto's focus on just one model right now, the bike is built to be upgraded without a lot of problems. I'm looking forward to an opportunity to test one of these bikes soon! Check out Court's review for all the details.

https://electricbikereview.com/junto/... The Junto Gen 1 is a sporty, responsive, urban style electric bike with 29er wheels and higher volume tires that create stability and add comfort, available in three frame sizes and two color options. All-aluminum frame is purpose built for ebike applications with a suspension-corrected geometry so you can add a 100 mm suspension fork aftermarket, tapered head tube and 15 mm thru axle. Excellent 11-speed Shimano SLX drivetrain with Shadow Plus clutch, wider 25 mm rims with reinforcement eyelets and thicker 13 gauge spokes in the rear to support the 350 watt geared motor. Simple display only shows battery level and 1-5 assist, the blue LED's can be annoyingly bright in dark ride conditions, nice locking ergonomic grips, gel saddle, and alloy platform pedals, hydraulic 180 mm disc brakes with motor inhibitors.

trebor
5 days ago

I just did two range tests.... I sent battery power levels to the cadence channel, so I could see the graph in Garmin Connect. Love this feature. Also love how the bike comes with free power meter! Wow. I can see how many watts I averaged and how many calories I burned.

I am 145 lbs. 2017 Turbo Levo Comp. I think that means 460 wh battery. 10 psi front, 12 rear. Trails with 377 feet elevation gain over 9.5 miles. 50% power. 3.6 firmware. Race accel. 35F temp.
Worked out to 21.1 miles max range.

At 20% power and 745 foot elevation in 12 miles, and accel on normal, worked out to 40.4 mile range.

My impression of 20% power is that it is almost like riding a normal MTB except significant help on hills. I could imagine riding as low as 15% power. I also rode at 0% power for 1.5 miles, and it felt like riding a fat bike - which is to say, I don't understand having range anxiety on this bike. If you do run out of power, it just becomes a not unreasonable bike. Motor has no drag.

JRA
5 days ago

Because I use a front hub motor and no PAS the drivetrain is not affected by the motor output and imitates my analog pedaling input which works best for my needs. However after a couple of thousand miles on this bike my main complaint was that the shifting was not very precise. The way I ride I like to pedal as much as possible on top of the motor so I shift gears to achieve the cadence and in put ratio that best suits my wanted level of activity and speed over ground at any given time.

Not as much of a problem in the front as I use a Schlumpf 2 spd bb drive which has 1:1 - 2.5:1 ratios and shifts easily with the click of a button using your heel. The problem was the rear 10 spd system which was Shimano Acera, not exactly the best quality components for sure. But what I really felt was the biggest problem was the cable drag that was allowing for hung shifting. I replaced the cable, lubed the cable, put on new housing and it would work for a few rides okish and then go back to its stubborn ways.

So in order to bypass the cable and housing I decided to look in to the Shimano Di2 Alfine 11 spd. IGH. If you look in to Di2 there are lots of different part numbers associated with it and it all has to work together and is not always clear what goes with what. After I got done choking on the price and complexity of ordering this system I tracked down the parts for the most part at cost, which was still substantial.

Although I have the knowledge of how to lace wheels and do most of my own wrenching I enlisted a local bike mechanic for this project because of his knowledge of Di2 and had him build the wheel and tape it. Also he did the system install which was not all that involved with the right parts but he knew the tricks associated with it and there are tricks. A general check up of all systems took place and a good cleaning which won't last long. At the same time I took the opportunity to swap in knobbier tires, 42c WTB Resolutes, for the snotty PNW season upon us and the IGH fits in to that as well as it will be less maintenance than before, in theory anyway.

My initial trial run was very positive as I found the bike to pedal with no undue mechanical resistance without assist which is important to me. When I hit the magic button and ran it through the gears I knew that it was a good thing to do because shifting was precise and the range seemed to be sufficient with a little lower on the low end and as high as I need on the upper. There is a little readout that tells me what gear its in and the shift "buttons" in the right lever are easy to get at and take only a light touch to activate. They are pretty close together and it is going to take a few rides to get a feel for the best way to get the right one but it shouldn't be too hard.

1/1
Kemper
4 days ago

100 mile update: All is well!

A couple notes/observations so far:

The power is fine for my mostly-flat ride, but now of course I wish I had got more! In real world I'm getting about 16 miles of range before the battery is in the 20%-40% range and my average speed is around 14 mph. Fresh charge keeps me back in the 18-20 mph range.
I was a little wobbly on the bike at first but with experience feel much more stable.
I mess with the kickstand every couple of days because the pedals will hit it for some reason. Glad to see this redesigned in their next model.
Folding the new, stiff bicycle joints was tough at first but have loosened up now.
Still happy with the weight. Have had to carry across a few stores, up/down stairs, and I wouldn't want it any heavier.
Really enjoy the integrated lights but wish the front one was a bit brighter and the rear had a blinking option/mode.
Throttle: Responsive when I first start riding. After a few uses it seems to have a 2-3 second delay which is remedied by turning off and back on again. I haven't reached out to Evelo support since it's probably some characteristic of the drive system and doesn't affect me much.
Belt: No signs of wear, but I am missing having gears. Thinking about the Max for it's transmission. Riding this bike without motor assist isn't much fun :).

Johnny
6 days ago

I am someone who recently returned biking after 2 years. I have a trek hybrid that I like riding and I usually use it for commuting too (around 20 miles round-trip). I can climb hills and I am kinda fit however I like to extend my range and sometimes I don't want to sweat too much in my commute.

At first I was planning to switch to a road bike then I realized that I also want to go to trails every now and then and I want some assurance that even on the days that I feel a little worn out I can still ride. So I have been having many thoughts about e-bikes.

Although I have an understanding on the electrical components (I used to build RC planes and in that hobby you deal with lipo batteries, speed controllers , chargers etc a lot) when it comes to bikes I don't know much.

I do know that I want to keep getting my exercise (so I don't want a throttle, I want some pedal assist at times to increase my range and provide convenience) and I also want to be able to completely disable it and still ride the bike without getting resistance from the motor.

I have two main options:

1. Getting a e-bike conversion kit for my current bike. I searched for a kit with torque sensor however I couldn't find and sellers in the US. If I ordered from China then the price is still too high to risk it. If someone can point me to a US based kit with torque sensors I can give it a try.

2. Just getting an ebike which is a pain altogether. I didn't know that there were so many small manufacturers. I am more into getting into a well known brand like Trek, Giant etc. since even the cheaper options (which on paper they look great value) are between 1.5k-2K,

Here are some of the bikes I had in mind,

- Giant Road E 1 https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-road-eplus, I really like a road bike and this seemed great at first but then again, it will be heavy and although I love dropbars I don't know how much of a bike I am getting and how much I am paying for the motor system.

- Trek Crossrip+ https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/electric-hybrid-bikes/crossrip/crossrip/p/1373000-2018/?colorCode=black, seems to be a e-cyclocross then again 4.5K price and the frame looks like an entry level model.

Now that I realized that I don't have many choices in road/gravel type e bikes I began considering more hybrid like bikes,

- Trek Super Commuter, https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/electric-hybrid-bikes/super-commuter/super-commuter-8s/p/1367000-2018/?colorCode=red, again too expensive and does not seem to be designed for agility or fitness.

- Giant Quick -E https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-quick-eplus, looks to be a much better choice compared to super commuter both in design and price.

The real problem is since bike is so heavy does it really matter to go for a solid fork ? I am seriously thinking about getting a bike with front suspension like the ones below.

- Trek Powerfly https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/mountain-bikes/electric-mountain-bikes/powerfly/powerfly-5/p/2914600-2018/?colorCode=grey_black

-Giant Explore https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/explore-eplus-3 , this one at $2.350 is priced very nicely seems to have some trail capabilities.

- Haibike hard seven https://wheelworld.com/product/haibike-sduro-hardseven-4.0-297072-1.htm

I don't know how Haibike stacks against the Brand bikes. I also don't know if the front suspension e-bikes will be good commuters on the road. It seems like since weight is not as big of an issue with e bikes the companies can still make durable bikes at those price ranges.

I also don't wanna pay $3K + for a bike since it is still a bike I don't really like to spend that much.

I will be happy if I can get some help.

daniel58
1 week ago

Hi Liz,
Have you considered building your own? If you have a bike you enjoy, and it sounds like you do, then building an ebike based on the bike you have might be the answer. I know it sounds daunting, but there are several kits out there that completely plug and play. With just a few hand tools and a little patience you can DIY!
You might look at the Bafang BBSHD. I have put many of these on bikes (just did another one today!), it only takes a few hours, and the results are amazing! And reasonably priced! You can get a complete kit with a very good battery for around $1250-1350, which fits your price point nicely, and you get an ebike that will do 35mph top speed and has about a 30 mile range, and will climb very steep hills with ease. They are very robust, I personally have logged thousands of miles on mine and I have not broke it yet! They include a throttle, which is not included on many factory bikes, and they are completely user programmable, so you can easily dial down the performance to suit local laws and your own needs. The entire kit adds only about 18lbs to your bike. If you do not feel you are up to the task you can have the kit installed for you (I can help with that!) and still be well below your 2k price point! I checked out your bike on line and it looks to be an ideal candidate for a ebike build! You CAN DIY! PM me for more info!

Is there any such thing as a direct drive electric gearless and brushless hub drive motor e-bike conversion kit; I hear that they are very reliable and have been around for awhile now; with basically no moving geared moving parts to potentially have to lubricate and to even go bad down the line; now I also hear good things about direct drive electric hub drive motors in that they can also potentially effectively assist one to help slow down ones e-bike safely also as well; and in doing so that would allow one to actually help to prolong ones mechanical disk brake pad life as an added benefit; especially down those long down hill mountain stretches in particular; I don't know of any potential direct drive electric hub drive motor e-bike conversion kits that might be worth considering for a potential e-bike application; I will also probably have to also likely get a decent branded name Raleigh host bike that has decent performing mechanical disk brakes also as well; that would also give the additional capability of having a triple chain ring front derailleur also as well; this to be able to maintain flexibly in switching from a set of lower set of gearing ranges; while also at the same time also being also capable of switching oneself to a higher set of gearing ranges also as well; I realize that this might be a tall order for a potential D.I.Y e-bike project as most e-bikes converted typically only have a single common front chain ring in front typically; hopefully direct drive electric hub drive motors have improved to the point where they are not only truly affordable but also cost effective to get as I would prefer to get one around 750 watts in power so that their is always plenty of electric motor reserve demand power on tap if needed also as well along with a powerful decent sized higher current controller and something like a King Meter larger sized bicycle computer graphics screen with one or two programmable custom power presets; now I don't quite nearly see that many branded name direct drive electric hub drive motor e-bike conversion kits especially ones with brand name reputable two year direct drive electric hub drive motor product warranties in particular versus the more universal non-branded name direct drive electric electric motor e-bike conversion kits it would seem; I have also potentially looked at RadBikes also as well but they unfortunately also only have a single chain ring in the front which only allows one to have a rather limited selection of higher set of range gears and no selection at all for lower set of range of gears; so that also does not appear to be an ideal effective custom e-bike choice also as well either; so here I am at a crossroads torn between having to make some rather limited effective e-bike conversion choices similar to what Liz was stating previously; is it actually possible to roll and build oneself a custom e-bike and hopefully still save some money in the process; to directly reinvest those savings into getting a somewhat larger higher 48 to 52V 28ah capacity lithium ion battery for $599 from EM3EV; which according to the e-bike forums is tops in battery pricing, battery performance and battery capacity for the money; now if that can all be done cost effectively that would be a really great custom e-bike alternative solution indeed.

indianajo
1 week ago

The forum can't find your model, I don't know what your rear hub looks like. Bionx is an integrated system, I don't expect you can modify much there.
And I've just experimented with the geared wheel motor market, there is a reason that Luna is always out of stock. The 1000 W 48v one I bought elsewhere lasted 60 miles. There must be a initial quality problem in the $220 versions. It was fully capable of 15% grade with gross weight of 300 lb though (me + 50 lb supplies).
You can change the drive wheel to have more teeth on the lowest sprocket, to lower the gear ratio. In the 11 speed clusters, 11 to 34 tooth range is pretty common. You'll have to match the chain design to the drive spocket. 6-8 speed chains are one width, 9-11 speed chains are thinner. You'll need a custom chain length too. and changing hubs gets on into the custom spoke length market, and no, the spoke calculators on line only get close, not good enough. The bike shop charges $122 to put something custom in an existing rim; I bought 3 different spoke lengths for $63.
As far as strength, I'm age 67 and am able to get that 300 lb up the 15% grades without stopping and without power. Not in May, but usually by mid June. My mountain bike had a 32:28 low ratio, and 26" wheels. Those 15% grades are the reason I bought geared hub motor instead of mid-drive; I can't do without the low ratio front sprocket. I sure as **** couldn't do without it when the battery and wheel failed in the first two trips and I had to pedal more than 10 miles to destination each time. The nice thing about geared hub motor, they don't drag when the motor is dead.
Have fun hot-rodding.

john peck
2 weeks ago

stay safe John!..... Its getting "cold" here in Socal... which I like... also to be safe I ordered a pair of coverall rain pants from Shower Pass... and I got a nice new winter riding jacket from REI. :)

yeah My bike is already fixed and ready for pickup. I have the stock Kenda tires.. and plan on upgrading next season.

I've got a pair of rain pants I've had at least a decade & never worn. Here in the rain forest you just get used to it virtually everyday
this time of year. I ride rain or shine. The CCS is down for a little bit, but I've got 3 other bikes. Just finished upgrading my 40cc
gasser to the same derailleur & freewheel as the CCS plus a 50/40/26 in front. Haven't put the
motor back on yet. It's as fast & powerful as the CCS, but noisy. It has more range, & pedals
better without power. There is, of course, a kinda nebulous legal limbo. I just put the engine
cover on & pedal anywhere I think I might be stopped. It's primarily off-road anyway.
Other upgrades are aimed at turning it into my version of the Hyperfat.

rich c
3 weeks ago

Do you want to be a bike mechanic or a rider? Do you have mechanical skills? About your route; Even a 28mph bike is slow compared to cars. Unless your ebike is covered with flashing lights, I don't know of any bike that is more visible than another. Maybe the color will help, but a driver will only see a fender and tire when they approach from front or back. Please don't consider an eBike as a safety device. It is no better in heavy traffic than a traditional bike. I don't think you will find anything at a dealer for your price range. Probably look at Radpower.

GillBoyNewn
3 weeks ago

A quick update. I collected my Delite GX Rohloff HS, ordered on 26 August from OnBike, on 11 November. This is 11 weeks, against a promised delivery wait of 6 weeks. Part of the delay was, according to OnBike, due to R&M being short of a key component, though R&M refused to specify which. Nonetheless, demand has apparently pushed delivery times up to around 10 weeks.
I've only ridden the bike around 150 miles so far, and generally I am delighted. No pun intended. It's a heavily engineered, stable, easy-rolling, long range (with the two batteries) and fairly nimble bicycle - though I don't want too much "nimble" at my age. The turning circle is anyway quite small.
My only niggle is the two front wheel punctures I've had so far. Both were caused by tiny thorns (three of them in the second puncture) but the Rock Razor tyres with their SnakeSkin side wall protection are supposed to be robust. I'm thinking about replacement tyres - anyone got any ideas?
And the bike is very heavy, though you don't notice this much once you're on your way. The drawback for me is how get it on top of my Subaru Forester - I can manage to lift the Kalkhoff Endeavour but the R&M is a bit too much. So, a new tow-bar and Thule VeloSpace 918 has been called for. More expense.

WilliamT
3 weeks ago

I have a 350 watt geared front hub kit from Dillenger and I use it on my daily commuter. It uses HIGO connectors that do a good job of keeping water out. I've have about 700 miles on it so far and have ridden through heavy downpours in it and in freezing temperatures. It's been a reliable workhorse. The motor has a good amount of torque and can get my bike going pretty quickly with just a flip of the throttle. The kit comes with a 13.6ah Samsung battery that gives me a range of 30 miles on a 120 lb electric cargo bike using level 3/5 with pedal assist. At that assist, I do about 16-18 mph, and on level 4/5 I get 19-21 mph with assist. On my previous hard tail where it weighed 45 lbs (w/kit) I was able to go 45-50 miles on a single charge.

I have purchased 2 kits from then (1st gen and 2nd gen) and have been pleased with them. Just get yourself from some Grin torque arms and your all set. (Total kit price $629)

https://dillengerelectricbikes.com/electric-bike-kits/best-sellers/street-legal-electric-bike-kit-samsung-power-13ah-by-dillenger.html

You can download the user manual to install it yourself. Its easy to follow and was the first kit I did myself on my existing bike. It was pretty easy.

EddieJ
1 month ago

As for Di2 doubt extra price is worth extra price on 1x11 for ebike, especially when manual XT is so good. Where Di2 shines is on 2x10 or 2x11, the lever controls both derailleurs. Will shift front derailleur and rear at same time so there is no big jump, its like having 1x15 with super fast precision shifting. Brilliant on unassisted bikes which need large range of gears.

I'm in 100% agreement with everything that you have said there.

I took an Orange Alpine 6 out today for a quick spin, and the Di2 left me wondering what both the point of it was, and why is there all the fuss being made about it. The only aspect that appealed was the lack of cockpit clutter and cable. Beyond that, I'll give it a miss on a 1x set up.

1/1
Dfstarman
1 month ago

I put ten miles on it this morning, still like it . It is not as powerful as my Eflow and I really like the Nuvinci Drive.

I live in Florida so hills are scarce where I, live but I did go up the one big hill in my neighborhood it went up easily enough but somewhat slower than my Eflow could.
Pretty quiet. Think I want to raise the handlebars a bit, it does not have water cage bosses. So I just got one with a clamp but since it is on the front of the post where the seat is, I need a smaller water bottle to fit.
I could always do a handlebar mount or an under seat mount, but I am not partial to those. Heading out shortly to get the cell phone mount for the handlebars and a BLE chest strap for the APP. The app has 3 levels of standard power City, Hill and Fitness.
The display has Eco, Tour and Power. You can get 10 levels from the app but I assume it is just finer grades of the 3 levels. See this from the manual:

STANDARD: The pedal torque multiplier factor is constant and proportional to the assistance level selected. '0‘ value corresponds to electric motor switched off and '10‘ value allows increasing the pedal torque by a factor about 3.5. WARNING: the usage of high assistance levels may significantly reduce the achievable range down to 40km for a fully charged battery. CITY: The pedal torque multiplier factor is function of the vehicle speed and of the selected assistance level. Electric assistance is high while starting and gradually decreases approaching 25km/h. This mode optimizes battery range while maintaining a high reactivity of the electric motor in standing start. HILL: The pedal torque multiplier factor is an increasing function of the pedal torque and of the selected assistance level: the electric support is dynamically reduced when low efforts are detected (constant speed on flat road or downhill) but it is immediately increased in case of relevant torque request (acceleration, uphill). This mode optimizes the battery range by using the electric motor only when necessary. FITNESS: Turns the Wi-Bike into a true mobile fitness machine: the rider selects its pedal power level to be maintained along the route (i.e. 100 Watt) and the electric motor dynamically adjusts the assistance level to maintain as constant as possible the effort close to the user selected target. In the graphic representation of the strategy behavior, the orange bar and the related number indicate the target power level; the blue area shows the instantaneous power of the cyclist. There is also a USB port to be able to charge your cell phone while riding. Max charge time is 3.5 hours.

Rooster
1 month ago

I've ridden my CCS with the 17.4 Ah battery/default tires around 700 miles now, almost all commuting 28.8 mi round trip (1h35m riding time) along 80% beach path/protected bike path and 20% paved roads with no recharge from work. Observations.

Good:

My coworkers are still amazed that I commute 4 out of 5 days a week such a distance on a bike.
Overall feeling of the bike is very solid and controllable. My wife who is not very confident on bikes in general was able to ride a mile at 18 MPH with confidence, probably due to the increased weight and low center of mass of the bike.
About half a mile of my commute is along a 40 MPH speed limit car street with a couple stop lights. At assist level 3/S with some effort or if I unlock the top speed, I'm able to cruise at 30 MPH which is high enough that car traffic hasn't gotten annoyed at yet for taking a lane.
When I'm tired riding home, I just go ahead and turn on the cruise control on the bike at a low speed (15-18 MPH) for a couple miles to relax.
It rained on Thursday and the fenders did a good job of keeping the water/dirt off of me.
Being on the beach path/protected bike lanes for most of my ride is a great commute, because a) it's really pretty and b) there are few enough other riders/pedestrians so I can wear headphones and listen to music, which wasn't the case on my previous city street bike commute. Also, very few people ride the beach path after 8:30PM, probably due to lack of power/lights, so I can take my time and just relax. Occasionally I see some wildlife!

Neutral:

In assist, I'm probably at 15% eco, 35% level 1, 35% level 2, 8% level 3, 7% level S usage.
I'm averaging somewhere between 15-20 Wh/mi depending on how eco I go (~19 MPH for the 15 Wh/mi, ~24 MPH for the 20 Wh/mi). If I'm using 80% of my pack at 20 Wh/mi, my theoretical range is 33 mi or so.

I think I need a bike fitting, as my hands sometimes cramp up and I sometimes lose sensation in my nether regions for a while after riding. I'm wearing gloves/bike shorts, so it must be my riding position or something.
I'm pumping the tires up about once a week to 60 psi. They're only probably losing 3-4 psi per week so I could probably wait longer. No flats so far!

Bad:

Range anxiety is real. Problem with the 33 mi range is that I have some steep hills at the end of my ride home so I like to save some voltage for them. Higher voltage = better: at 700 watts on these hills, I'm huffing and puffing at 8 MPH, but at 900 watts, it's smooth sailing at 10 MPH. I also didn't realize that I often go out with coworkers after work so I put in an order with Juiced for an extra charger for work so I can roll to whatever restaurant/house we're going to instead of taking Lyft. Unfortunately they're sold out of regular chargers but customer service was able to place a special order for me.
Out of the box the front disk brake needed adjustment as did the derailleur. I've also got some unevenly pitched motor sound that happens about 50% of the time that I engage the motor. Not sure what's going on there.
At about 500 mi, I started getting front disk brake squeal (very loud) that comes and goes and some play in the chain (I think I need to regrease it).
It's unfortunate that the electric motor has to be turned on in order for you to use the front light of the bike. I know Tora said that he'd rather people always use the electric assist of the bike because otherwise it feels like a heavy bike, but if this is your only vehicle and you're trying to eke out some extra battery life for a later event (hills, event later that day), it's unsafe to ride with the bike off at night as you can't use the front light. Please add a "Mode 0" to the bike, even if it's disabled by default (have to turn it on in the options)!

Overall I'm very happy with the bike. I would've put about $375 into my car (at IRS rates) plus $144 of parking at this point, so the bike is about 25% done paying for itself, excluding the exercise I'm getting :).

If I were building a future perfect commuter bike for myself, I would use a totally internally geared + protected chain system to reduce the maintenance burden of the bike. If I could somehow protect the brakes too, that would be ideal.
You don't have to rely on juiced for a battery charger and I don't think it should effect the warranty as long as it is a 2 or 3 amp charger. It shouldn't effect the warranty anyway even up to 4 amp with the 17ah battery but you are better off with the slow charge but I would check with juiced. Of course they would rather you buy it from them but pretty much a charger is a charger given it has the right connectors. J.S. You may wanna make sure it's a 48v charger to. And for li ion

daniel58
1 month ago

I've ridden my CCS with the 17.4 Ah battery/default tires around 700 miles now, almost all commuting 28.8 mi round trip (1h35m riding time) along 80% beach path/protected bike path and 20% paved roads with no recharge from work. Observations.

Good:

My coworkers are still amazed that I commute 4 out of 5 days a week such a distance on a bike.
Overall feeling of the bike is very solid and controllable. My wife who is not very confident on bikes in general was able to ride a mile at 18 MPH with confidence, probably due to the increased weight and low center of mass of the bike.
About half a mile of my commute is along a 40 MPH speed limit car street with a couple stop lights. At assist level 3/S with some effort or if I unlock the top speed, I'm able to cruise at 30 MPH which is high enough that car traffic hasn't gotten annoyed at yet for taking a lane.
When I'm tired riding home, I just go ahead and turn on the cruise control on the bike at a low speed (15-18 MPH) for a couple miles to relax.
It rained on Thursday and the fenders did a good job of keeping the water/dirt off of me.
Being on the beach path/protected bike lanes for most of my ride is a great commute, because a) it's really pretty and b) there are few enough other riders/pedestrians so I can wear headphones and listen to music, which wasn't the case on my previous city street bike commute. Also, very few people ride the beach path after 8:30PM, probably due to lack of power/lights, so I can take my time and just relax. Occasionally I see some wildlife!

Neutral:

In assist, I'm probably at 15% eco, 35% level 1, 35% level 2, 8% level 3, 7% level S usage.
I'm averaging somewhere between 15-20 Wh/mi depending on how eco I go (~19 MPH for the 15 Wh/mi, ~24 MPH for the 20 Wh/mi). If I'm using 80% of my pack at 20 Wh/mi, my theoretical range is 33 mi or so.

I think I need a bike fitting, as my hands sometimes cramp up and I sometimes lose sensation in my nether regions for a while after riding. I'm wearing gloves/bike shorts, so it must be my riding position or something.
I'm pumping the tires up about once a week to 60 psi. They're only probably losing 3-4 psi per week so I could probably wait longer. No flats so far!

Bad:

Range anxiety is real. Problem with the 33 mi range is that I have some steep hills at the end of my ride home so I like to save some voltage for them. Higher voltage = better: at 700 watts on these hills, I'm huffing and puffing at 8 MPH, but at 900 watts, it's smooth sailing at 10 MPH. I also didn't realize that I often go out with coworkers after work so I put in an order with Juiced for an extra charger for work so I can roll to whatever restaurant/house we're going to instead of taking Lyft. Unfortunately they're sold out of regular chargers but customer service was able to place a special order for me.
Out of the box the front disk brake needed adjustment as did the derailleur. I've also got some unevenly pitched motor sound that happens about 50% of the time that I engage the motor. Not sure what's going on there.
At about 500 mi, I started getting front disk brake squeal (very loud) that comes and goes and some play in the chain (I think I need to regrease it).
It's unfortunate that the electric motor has to be turned on in order for you to use the front light of the bike. I know Tora said that he'd rather people always use the electric assist of the bike because otherwise it feels like a heavy bike, but if this is your only vehicle and you're trying to eke out some extra battery life for a later event (hills, event later that day), it's unsafe to ride with the bike off at night as you can't use the front light. Please add a "Mode 0" to the bike, even if it's disabled by default (have to turn it on in the options)!

Overall I'm very happy with the bike. I would've put about $375 into my car (at IRS rates) plus $144 of parking at this point, so the bike is about 25% done paying for itself, excluding the exercise I'm getting :).

If I were building a future perfect commuter bike for myself, I would use a totally internally geared + protected chain system to reduce the maintenance burden of the bike. If I could somehow protect the brakes too, that would be ideal.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to reply and respond with useful CCS user feedback in particular; the feeling of sure footedness is largely primarily due to the somewhat unusual choice for bike frame geometry for the rear chainstays; its length is much shorter than average for a typical bike but that results in a very responsive and solid stable sure footed tracking bike; which feels very good while one is biking in unusual or new biking situations; its also good to hear that this CCS bike is particularly good for kicking back at the end of a long workday once one has set up cruise control at a conservative safe 12mph or so and plugged in some spotify mood lifting music to relax to on the way home without paying to much attention to the road while biking except relaxing and letting the cares of the work day ebb away;

its good to get back some "in the field" reports on actual battery capacity while in use; if one typically rides with 17ah lithium ion battery capacity at pedelac assist level 3 one can expect to get about a maximum mileage of about thirty five miles; which is I guess is a much more realistic evaluation to keep in mind if one is using the CCS to go on longer weekend bicycle touring jaunts; it might actually be worth it to prudently get a spare seventeen amp hour lithium ion battery for the trip back home; in order so that one is not unexpectedly stranded or have a very long bicycle ride home using only pedal power; since it would seem ones lithium ion battery does not actually last that long at all at 15mph one cannot expect it to last much more than about two hours biking going towards one destination; so one would definitely need a spare lithium ion battery pack to take one back home;

though the seventeen amp hour lithium ion batteries are a bit on the expensive side at $1,000 apiece; one that the CCS bike comes with if one upgrades to 17ah lithium ion battery from 12.8ah lithium ion battery capacity for an extra $300; the second spare 17ah lithium ion battery would cost a $1,000; so that would be about; $2,000 total combined for two 17ah lithium ion battery pack for 34ah total lithium ion battery pack capacity; the CCS bike itself costs about $700 with about an additional $300 for the total combined package of torque sensor, hydraulic disk brake upgrade, two bike fenders, powerful led headlight; for about $1,000 for the CCS bike itself without any exclusive without any lithium ion batteries at all; though its not a bad cost breakout as far as electric bikes cost breakdown goes; its just about average and nothing to write home about in reality at the end of the day;

now on the unevenly pitched motor sound that happens about 50% of the time that I engage the motor; that is very likely to be coming from the internals of the gear hub motor itself; typically the internal gear hub motor comes packed very lightly with lubricating white lithium grease that is rather easily flung off due to the massive typical speeds of the internal gearing found inside such typical electric hub motors; its quite easy to take apart the electric hub motor and pack it full with the high viscosity red color dyed heavy duty heat and moisture resistant rated molybdenum grease which is highly resistant to be flung off at any speed; now afterwards one should not hear any noise at all coming from the electric hub motor once it has been fully packed out with the red molybdenum grease packing;

but otherwise I am very glad to hear you are putting the CCS bike to good use with the daily racking up the cycling mileage and getting in some decent cycling mileage totals enjoying the CCS e-biking experiences and sharing that with those who were wondering what it was and/or might be like to own one for themselves; and then trying to decide if it is worth it ultimately for ones given e-biking application scenario; as their are an almost bewildering array of quite ponderous amount of good choices out their in the e-biking community to consider and weigh to see if one is going to actually get the amount of use out of it that they expect their e-bike to provide them in their expected scope and range of enjoyment that their e-biking experiences will hopefully provide them over the longer term use application.

DRR
1 month ago

Thanks for your excellent blog of experiences to date. I currently own my first ebike, a Cyclamatic CX3 and it is outstanding! Chinese made, alloy frame; sold on line only by Shop247.com for $750 (available on Amazon); outstanding value. (I’d love to see review by Court/EBR!). It has 250w rear hub motor and 36v 10.4 amp battery. I have about 250 miles so far with no problems. I love the front suspension, and have lowered rear tire pressure to about 30+ psi to improve the ride - I’m also considering a suspension seat post. I also installed a wider more comfortable seat, and a 110mm adjustable stem to move the handlebars up and towards me; also cheap plastic fenders from Amazon. It has a great display and 9-speed controller; pedal assist only. Normally I ride at about 15-18 mph (I upped the max speed) and the range is about 20-25 miles. They say it weighs 42 lb; I travel a lot so I remove the battery and quick-release front wheel, and lay it atop all the stuff in my SUV when we travel - very manageable. For lighter weight, you may want to take a look at the Cyclamatic CX3 - I recommend it highly.
I’m already thinking about my next ebike and have enjoyed reading Court’s reviews on EBR. I’m considering the Radrover (which I love!) and the Voltbike Enduro; but they both weigh 60+ lb. so not sure about those for my travels. BTW, I’m 78, 5’10”, weigh about 178 lb. and live in Michigan. I ride 12-15 miles a day and I’ve been a bike rider on and off since my youth. Hope my ramblings are of some interest. Keep biking!

mal robot
1 month ago

I've ridden my CCS with the 17.4 Ah battery/default tires around 700 miles now, almost all commuting 28.8 mi round trip (1h35m riding time) along 80% beach path/protected bike path and 20% paved roads with no recharge from work. Observations.

Good:

My coworkers are still amazed that I commute 4 out of 5 days a week such a distance on a bike.
Overall feeling of the bike is very solid and controllable. My wife who is not very confident on bikes in general was able to ride a mile at 18 MPH with confidence, probably due to the increased weight and low center of mass of the bike.
About half a mile of my commute is along a 40 MPH speed limit car street with a couple stop lights. At assist level 3/S with some effort or if I unlock the top speed, I'm able to cruise at 30 MPH which is high enough that car traffic hasn't gotten annoyed at yet for taking a lane.
When I'm tired riding home, I just go ahead and turn on the cruise control on the bike at a low speed (15-18 MPH) for a couple miles to relax.
It rained on Thursday and the fenders did a good job of keeping the water/dirt off of me.
Being on the beach path/protected bike lanes for most of my ride is a great commute, because a) it's really pretty and b) there are few enough other riders/pedestrians so I can wear headphones and listen to music, which wasn't the case on my previous city street bike commute. Also, very few people ride the beach path after 8:30PM, probably due to lack of power/lights, so I can take my time and just relax. Occasionally I see some wildlife!

Neutral:

In assist, I'm probably at 15% eco, 35% level 1, 35% level 2, 8% level 3, 7% level S usage.
I'm averaging somewhere between 15-20 Wh/mi depending on how eco I go (~19 MPH for the 15 Wh/mi, ~24 MPH for the 20 Wh/mi). If I'm using 80% of my pack at 20 Wh/mi, my theoretical range is 33 mi or so.

I think I need a bike fitting, as my hands sometimes cramp up and I sometimes lose sensation in my nether regions for a while after riding. I'm wearing gloves/bike shorts, so it must be my riding position or something.
I'm pumping the tires up about once a week to 60 psi. They're only probably losing 3-4 psi per week so I could probably wait longer. No flats so far!

Bad:

Range anxiety is real. Problem with the 33 mi range is that I have some steep hills at the end of my ride home so I like to save some voltage for them. Higher voltage = better: at 700 watts on these hills, I'm huffing and puffing at 8 MPH, but at 900 watts, it's smooth sailing at 10 MPH. I also didn't realize that I often go out with coworkers after work so I put in an order with Juiced for an extra charger for work so I can roll to whatever restaurant/house we're going to instead of taking Lyft. Unfortunately they're sold out of regular chargers but customer service was able to place a special order for me.
Out of the box the front disk brake needed adjustment as did the derailleur. I've also got some unevenly pitched motor sound that happens about 50% of the time that I engage the motor. Not sure what's going on there.
At about 500 mi, I started getting front disk brake squeal (very loud) that comes and goes and some play in the chain (I think I need to regrease it).
It's unfortunate that the electric motor has to be turned on in order for you to use the front light of the bike. I know Tora said that he'd rather people always use the electric assist of the bike because otherwise it feels like a heavy bike, but if this is your only vehicle and you're trying to eke out some extra battery life for a later event (hills, event later that day), it's unsafe to ride with the bike off at night as you can't use the front light. Please add a "Mode 0" to the bike, even if it's disabled by default (have to turn it on in the options)!

Overall I'm very happy with the bike. I would've put about $375 into my car (at IRS rates) plus $144 of parking at this point, so the bike is about 25% done paying for itself, excluding the exercise I'm getting :).

If I were building a future perfect commuter bike for myself, I would use a totally internally geared + protected chain system to reduce the maintenance burden of the bike. If I could somehow protect the brakes too, that would be ideal.

Mark Stonich
1 month ago

Thanks for your answer. She had a motorcycle accident when younger. Things were actually fine until last year when she slipped on an ice patch and broke her knee cap. That's when the knee problems started to come back. There's a loss of strength accompanied by pain when putting too much pressure on the knee. Walking is not a problem, but carrying heavy loads is no longer possible. Not sure of all the details, as it's a friend's wife. I offered to help put the bike/kit together as they're both over 75.

In a lot of cases the apparent lack of strength isn't that the muscle isn't strong, but pain prevents you from applying full tension with it. Reducing the bend in the knee with short cranks and spinning freely (easier with shorties) often helps. That she has no trouble walking, where the knee isn't loaded while bent, suggests that reducing the bend MAY help. She should run this past her Ortho and PT to get their opinion.

If she's a candidate for knee replacement, everyone I know who's had one, including my wife, says they should have done it sooner. 7 weeks after Jane's TKR she was climbing much better than before. And she rode 9 miles the day before her surgery. But after replacement, a lot of people lose range of motion and still need shorties. I've sold at least 100 sets 100mm or shorter to adults. Many to people with knee replacements whose PT wasn't aggressive enough.

If you want to have them contact me I can help them determine if short cranks are likely to help. I have all the work I want/need and would have retired years ago if there was someone else, anywhere on the planet, doing the work. So if her situation doesn't warrant shorties, I won't try to talk them into anything to try to make a sale. If nothing else, I can offer her some strategies for biking with bad knees. And Jane can share her experience with the Copenhagen Wheel.

Mark Stonich; BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, MN 55417 USA
Ph. (612) 710-9593 http://bikesmithdesign.com
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikesmith/ (Mostly Wildlife)

Recommended reading;
Crank Length, Leg Length and Power
Short Women / Short Crank Feedback
Range of Motion Limitations & Crank Length

In case they worry that short cranks will cost her power;

I recently got a phone call from an average sized adult mountain biker who says he's climbing familiar hills 1 or 2 gears higher on 135s than he'd used with 175s before he messed his knee up. He was just hoping shorties would let him ride again. Now he wants to get back into racing. He’s in Big Bear Lake California where the “Hills” are mountains.

A local Gravel Road racer is 6'-2” (188cm) and after much trial and error finds he is fastest on 135s despite having no RoM or other issues.

Another 6’2” gent in Texas competes in long distance Brevets on 95mm cranks due to severe range of motion limits. Another man with range of motion limits is climbing the hills of San Francisco with a single 38t chainring and a 12-25 cassette, also on 95s. The fellow in San Francisco bends pedal spindles. I just heard from another gent who does the grueling 200 mile Seattle to Portland on 95s.

One of my customers, 5'-7" (170cm) tall professional triathlete Courtney Ogden, won the big money 2011 Western Australia Ironman on 145s. He's done extensive work with the people at PowerCranks where they are becoming big advocates of shorter cranks.

A few years ago a team of 4 Australian MTB racers, ranging in height from 5'10 to 6"1 won a 24 hour MTB race on 125s. With the shorter cranks they rarely had to stand. conserving energy. And they were able to get by with a single chainring, before today’s monster cassettes, because the useful RPM range is so wide with shorties. Many customers have reported that they notice themselves needing to shift much less often.

This from a serious roadie with severe range of motion limitations;
"I’m 5’8” 168lbs – regarding strength, I’m not the strongest. However, I’m not the last up the hills and can do more than my fair share on the front of the group. The 115mm Andels you made for me still have no issues what so ever, I’m on my second set of rings! Please send me another set of 115s for my new bike.”
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Knee Friendly Pedaling

Riders usually push down on the pedals by using their quads to straighten the knee joint. First pushing the pedal forward, then down. There is always going to be a bit of this going on but you can do a lot to reduce the loads on your knees.

Try concentrating on using your glutes and hip flexors to swing your knees up and down. Relax your quads and just let everything below the knee act as a connecting rod between the knees and pedals. At the bottom of the pedal stroke use your hamstrings just a little bit to pull your foot back as though you were scraping mud off your shoe. Don't consciously push forward at the top of the circle. That's when knees are most bent and the tissues around them are most vulnerable.

If you aren't clipped into the pedals, and most of the time even if you are, you don't pull up on the pedal. But the idea of using the hip flexors to lift the knee is to reduce the amount of work done by the front foot that is wasted by raising the weight of the other leg and foot. If you aren't clipped into your pedals you don't want to completely unweight the upward foot. Some contact is needed to keep it located on the pedal. A grippy pedal like a spiky MTB platform or the MKS Grip King (AKA Lambda) makes this easier.

Pedalling on the mid-foot instead of the ball of the foot reduces stress on the knee. And testing has shown that it increases endurance, at a slight cost in peak power. However, be careful to avoid toe/tire interference.

If you do this while spinning freely, in low gears, you won't have to apply much force with any single muscle group. If you aren't comfortable spinning, your cranks are probably too long. 21-21.6% of inseam is best for healthy, non-triathlets, without joint issues. When a person is uncomfortable at higher RPM it isn't due to the muscles switching from extension to contraction more often. It is because their muscles are extending and contracting at a speed that is too fast for them. This recruits more fast twitch muscles, which produce more heat and lactic acid. Shortcranks reduce this speed by moving the muscles a shorter distance per revolution. Allowing more use of slow twitch fibers for a higher comfortable cadence.

Your quads will still end up doing much of the work. But easing some of the tension pulling your patella down onto the joint can make a big difference. When I get a twinge in my knee, it reminds me to concentrate on my pedaling and I actually accelerate.

BTW I read about this type of pedaling years ago, as a way to help you spin better. So it has a double benefit.

For eBike types, think of more efficient pedaling as a way to lessen drain on your batteries. ;)

john peck
1 month ago

I changed my front chainring to a 44T and it's not terrible to pedal without power.
I'm glad to hear better powerless pedal is possible. But I'd still like to keep at least 50T for running powered. I use eco mode as much as is
practical, but 3 & S modes are great for getting a run at a hill. It was a real struggle getting over the hills I can now zoom right up*. My reason for
improving unpowered pedaling is that I want go places where the distance between charging opportunities exceeds my battery range. With a 26T ring I can still get a better than 2 to 1 ratio with
more leverage on the pedals.
*Weight loss has also helped a good deal.

BallzOne
1 month ago

I agree, I was only planning to use the other two rings for pedaling with power off. If I can dawdle along a flat at 10 or 12 mph,
so much the better to extend overall range.

I changed my front chainring to a 44T and it's not terrible to pedal without power.

mrgold35
1 month ago

I'm 6'3" and 270 lbs and I've had my two his/her Radrovers since Sept/2016. I have around 3600 miles between both bikes. The wife doesn't ride hers as much as I do and I end up using both for work/fun rides (keep wear/tear/mileage the same for both). When I was looking last year, it was only a choice between Sondors, Volt, and Rad in the same price range. It was my first ebike after getting back into biking a few years ago after a +20 year break.

You will get use to how a fat tire bike rides and there are a lot of benefits with the extra size like instant conversation starter, smoother ride on rough surfaces at any speed, easy to transition for smooth roads to rough dirt trails with a minimal drop in ride quality or speed, can handle sandy conditions that would stop thinner tires, and you can make your own trail if you need to ride around obstacles.

A lot of these fat tire ebikes are very similar in style and features to almost in the same way trying to pick from a Accord, Camry, or Altima sedans. I dug a little deeper to see if there were any features that might be useful for daily commuting and trail riding (my list from a year ago).

I went with a 2016 model Radrover (in black and white) because:
- looked like a more upright riding position compared to Volt, less stress on arms and shoulders, I could go for longer rides.
- ergo hand grips, lessen the effects of "numb hands"
- the Rad had adjustable forks with lock out
- the Rad had 180mm front/rear brakes, extra size brakes comes in handy for emergency stops at +270lbs and +20 mph
- easy to adjust the motor cut off speed from the standard 20 mph down to 7 mph or up to a little under 25 mph with a few presses in the set-up screen.
- narrower handle bars, helps keep less stress on upper body, narrow handle bars help with obstacles on narrow single track trails.
- three bottle cage connections (either side of upper top tube near handle bars, one on down tube facing the ground)
- throttle has a red on/off switch, you can turn it on when needed
- throttle power is available at full 750w power in PAS 0-5. Very handy for getting across busy intersections, short inclines to boost your speed, if you need to push you Rad up a hill, or riding around obstacles that would hit the pedals in PAS. I even used the throttle to help push my Rad up a flight of stairs.
- the Radrover is a 4" fat tire bike with ebike components added. I can remove all ebike components and add to another fat tire bike, upgrade components like the battery/controller/hub motor, convert the rad into a mid-drive, or just remove all ebike components and turn the rover into a regular fat tire bike. A little harder to do all those things with a ebike with an integrated battery in the frame.
- customer service, communications, and warranty claims has been 100% in my book

I did have to make some mods to my Rover to fit me a little better like adding:
- Sunlite 0-60 degree adjustable stem
- Sunlite 11.5X12.5 Cloud-9 cruiser seat
- Suntour SP-12 NCX 400mm suspension seatpost
- 1859 Northwest ebike throttle attachment
- BM Works Speed Extender for the handlebar for my cell iphone 6S Plus and headlight (rover handlebars too crowded and curved too much to add directly there)

TrevorB
1 month ago

I've bosch CX with 11spd XT, no shift detecting that I've notice. I'm always careful not to shift under heavy load, better up the assist than down shift on unexpected climb. Never upshift more than one gear at time under load and try to stop pedalling, motor will run on for second and complete shift.

From what I've read SRAM EX1 is design to shift under heavy load at max assist, downside is big ratio jumps between gears. I'm always moving between lowest 4 gears on sunrace 11-46t and find spacing perfect so expect the EX1 is not for me. Try avoid using 46t to much as it is alloy compared to steel for rest of cassette.

The CX drive does like its chains, around 400miles for KTM e11 with lot of MTBing, but the grin factor is worth every penny.

As for Di2 doubt extra price is worth extra price on 1x11 for ebike, especially when manual XT is so good. Where Di2 shines is on 2x10 or 2x11, the lever controls both derailleurs. Will shift front derailleur and rear at same time so there is no big jump, its like having 1x15 with super fast precision shifting. Brilliant on unassisted bikes which need large range of gears.

ecorecoscooteruser
1 month ago

Update: My M5 has over 1000 miles and still going strong. I did have to send it back to the company a few months back when something shorted due to moisture. The company repaired it for free and sent it back to me. However, when I was without the M5, I wasn't a happy camper...

This past week I received the ecoreco XS model (did the indegogo back in Jan). The XS is their budget model. First impressions out of the box was that it was very sleek with all the carbon fiber, really big and bright front LED light bar, and very very light compared to the M5. The throttle and breaks were also the updated paddle type vs the grip on the m5. So much slicker cosmetically than the M5. Unfortunately, having the M5 ride experience, the XS is definitely NOT a replacement.

The XS lets you choose between 3 separate ride levels, limiters. On the highest, level 3, the fastest I could go was about 11 mph - seemed like 8-9 was average. Very slow compared to the speed of the M5 where I am zipping by bicycles sometimes. Also, on my daily commute where I go 2 miles each way, the battery meter kept dipping to one bar on my way back. It would recover to 2 bar when I let go of the accelerator, but looks like 4-5 miles on level 3 is about its limit (which is what is represent by ecoreco anyway).

I ordered this as part of the indigogo kickstarter type thing back in Jan. The XS is still listed as not available on the ecoreco website, and the s/n is a very neat round number, so I'm thinking my XS might be one of the first to ship. But in any event, if ecoreco had upped the battery pack on this and upp'd the speed to 15 mph, this would be an M5 replacement (which is probably why they didn't). There's an petite older lady in my building who wanted to try out my M5 - I've been alittle hesitant due to its weight and speed. The XS is something I'd definitely recommend to her since its much lighter. Would also be good for older kids who might lose control using an M5.

FYI, the charge on mine shipped without the wall plug. But I noticed that the charger they ultimately used is different from the one pictured on their online manual. It doesn't need to be oriented to plug in, as it like a laptop plug. The online manual also doesn't explain anything about the ride levels, and has some other problems that probably relate to features that were dropped in the final product.

When I registered my XS with ecoreco, they provided a discount code (4m8pks). I know the M5 discount code (NJfVCY) gave $50 off any one who uses it, but I don't know what sort of discount one would get with an XS discount which is much cheaper ($400 vs originally $1200 for the M5, now their equivalent models are in the $800-$900 range). But every little bit helps, right?

bluecat
2 months ago

Peter Althaus, CEO of Stromer, will leave the company by end of year.

A short history of the past years CEOs (only in german, but you will understand ;-)

Der CEO der myStromer AG, Peter Althaus wird die Firma auf Ende Jahr verlassen um sich in Deutschland an einer KMU einer anderen Branche zu Beteiligen.

Peter Althaus kam am 1. April 2016 zu Stromer und war zuvor CEO und VR der Schaerer AG (prof. Cafémaschinen), einer Tochter der WMF (Deutschland).

Davor wurde das Unternhemen von Erwin Steinmann geführt, der bei BMC tätig war. Sein Vorgänger war Christian Müller, den es zu Flyer gezogen hat.

Der wiederum kam 2012 von DT Swiss zu Stromer. Und davor war Thömu persönlich der Chef. Nun hat er diese Funktion wieder bei Thömus.

As of 1 January 2018, Jakob Luksch will assume the position of Chief Executive Officer. Jakob Luksch is currently working for BMW / Mini. He is responsible for the complete seating device. In this function, he is familiar with absolute cost awareness. He takes over a company that offers a cleared product range for 2018 (in europe). The end of the ST1 (in europe) closes a chapter, which knows not only joyful sections. However, the beginner model is also gone. This loss of turnover is to be compensated - and even more.

Stefan Schwab, Chairman of the board, assumes, Stromer will take profit from Peter Luksch' experience. The automotive industry is highly competitive, very cost sensitive - but also very close to the customer. This could be seen as a step forward in direction of a larger accessories-list.

Some figures from Stromer:

Turnover: about 40 million Swiss Francs

More than 12'000 bikes sold

72 employees

HQ in Oberwangen / Switzerland

Share capital: 2'300'100 Swiss franks

Major shareholders: Andy Rihs, Ernst Thomke, Thomas Binggeli, the Noser Group from Ruedi Noser, Stefan Schwab and other players from the financial sector.

As an easter egg, you can see the front of Thömu's Tesla on the satellite view...

Robert Wetzel
2 years ago

Nice review as always - you guys at the other side of the big lake sure have not only the nicer landscapes, but also the nicer e-bike laws. All we get here is 250 Watts / 25 km/h or 500 Watts / 45 km/h but in the latter case you already need a driving license, a helmet, a license plate, are not allowed on bike paths and so on.....bummer.

Anyways, is there a chance you might make a more general video explaining the differences between the geared and gearless hub motors? What are the respective advantages, and so on....
Thanks for the good work anyways, keep it up!

Robert Wetzel
2 years ago

+ElectricBikeReview.com
Wow, thanks for the quick and exhaustive answer! I can see how you are a very light person by most standards, and this affects engine performance of course. At 230 lbs, and another 70 lbs by the bike, I'd often wish for more than just 250 Watts.
Thank you also so much for the link, I'll read it right away. Your verdict about mid-drives is surprising, as most other reviews I came across laude the Yamaha over the Bosch as the former is supposed to be more powerful (70 Nm vs. 60 Nm, no idea how many lb ft that would be in your whacky system ;-)) as well as being quieter.
What positively surprised me about the Bosch was its endurance - we rented two mid-drive pedelecs in Switzerland and the battery lasted a little shy of 50 km with about 1500 meters height difference, and performed decently until the very end.
With my cheap system power will noticeably fall when passing about 70% battery.

ElectricBikeReview.com
2 years ago

+Robert Wetzel Yeah... I've heard about the restrictive laws in some parts of Europe. Fun fact, the 750 watt 20 mph law was passed under George W. Bush here in the US... it's like one of the only cool things he did while in office :P

Great question on the hub motors, I've created an article about it here: http://electricbikereview.com/guides/difference-between-ebike-motors/ with some great pictures and I'll probably do a video in the future. The short answer is that geared is lighter, peppier and usually more affordable but doesn't offer power regeneration and might not last as long (gears rubbing inside vs. just magnets). I'm an active type of rider and I don't weigh much so I usually choose geared. These days I've really developed a taste for mid-drive motors and you can get these awesome kits with shift sensing (to reduce wear and strain on your chain) from e-RAD which offer pedal assist and throttle actuation: http://electricbikereview.com/category/e-rad/ otherwise I really like Bosch (Impulse and Yamaha are pretty good as well but not as responsive and "quick" feeling in my opinion).

DrZarkloff
2 years ago

still the Sonders is more bike for the money. when will these kit manufacturers get with the program?

ElectricBikeReview.com
2 years ago

+DrZarkloff The Sondors has been a decent deal for people in the US who got them delivered. I still get emails from people in the UK and Australia that haven't received theres (in fact I heard most of Australia was refunded because of legal restrictions?) not everyone wants a fat bike frame so kits like this can be great, Electric Bike Outfitters sells several others for even less like the "EBO Commuter" that's rated at 350 watts just like the Sondors http://electricbikereview.com/electric-bike-outfitters/ebo-commuter-kit/

James Jacocks
2 years ago

Court, you have a strong international following-very good show! Yes, Denver is a great place to live (or ride bikes). I an looking for a front wheel kit for my beloved Fisher hybrid from the early nineties. It is a light bike with a bumper shock. Any ideas? Great vid, per usual!

Flo Mo
2 years ago

Your bike tests are cool. Now I feel like I'm in Denver/Colorado. :) It's great to ride with you on the test bikes. You make very good shots. Thanks for that. Greetings from Berlin.

LUIZ FELIPE MENDONÇA RIBEIRO
2 years ago

Congratulations on video

ElectricBikeReview.com
2 years ago

+LUIZ FELIPE MENDONÇA RIBEIRO Thanks, doing my best, lots more to come ;)