Electric Bike Outfitters EBO Front Range Kit Review

Ebo Front Range Electric Bike Kit Review 1
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Kit
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Gearless Motor Cassette
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Pack And Controller
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Led Console And Twist Throttle
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range 500 Watt Direct Drive Motor
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Lock And Power Button
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Controller Box
Ebo Front Range Electric Bike Kit Review 1
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Kit
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Gearless Motor Cassette
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Pack And Controller
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Led Console And Twist Throttle
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range 500 Watt Direct Drive Motor
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Battery Lock And Power Button
Electric Bike Outfitters Front Range Controller Box

Summary

  • A powerful gearless hub motor kit capable of being installed as a front or rear wheel, sturdy and relatively quiet
  • Gearless motors tend to be heavier and this one is ~12 lbs and does not offer a regeneration option for regenerative braking
  • The display console is more basic (LED lights vs. an LCD screen) but also takes up less space, the kit comes stock with trigger throttle but has a twist throttle as an opion
  • Quality Samsung cells in the battery pack, larger capacity at 14.5 amp hours, solid one year warranty on all parts

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Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

Electric Bike Outfitters

Model:

EBO Front Range

Price:

$1,083

Suggested Use:

Urban, Trail, Commuting

Electric Bike Class:

Throttle on Demand (Class 2)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

30 Day Return, 1 Year Comprehensive

Availability:

United States

Model Year:

20152016

Bicycle Details

Battery Weight:

7 lbs (3.17 kg)

Motor Weight:

12 lbs (5.44 kg)

Gearing Details:

9 (Single Speed or Shimano 6 or 7 Speed Cassettes or SunRace 8 and 9 Speed Cassettes)

Brake Details:

Mechanical 5 Brand Levers with Motor Inhibitors

Rims:

Aluminum Alloy

Spokes:

13 Gauge Stainless Steel, 36 Spoke

Wheel Sizes:

26 in (66.04cm)27.5 in (69.85cm)28 in (71.12cm)

Tube Details:

Schrader Valve

Accessories:

Female USB Charge Port on Battery Pack, EBO Quick Connect Anti-Water Wiring, Optional Black or Silver Motor Color, Optional Black or White Battery Color, Optional Twist Throttle, Optional Wuxing Twist Throttle

Other:

Compatible with Disc Brakes or Caliper Style Brakes (Clamp Diameter 22.2 mm), Compatible with 100 mm, 120 mm, or 135 mm Dropout Sizes, Compatible with 26", 27.5" or 700C Wheel Size, 22 Amp Controller

Electronic Details

Motor Type:

Front-Mounted Gearless Direct Drive Hub, Rear-Mounted Gearless Direct Drive Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

500 watts

Battery Brand:

Samsung

Battery Voltage:

36 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

14.5 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

522 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

25 miles (40 km)

Estimated Max Range:

45 miles (72 km)

Display Type:

Fixed LED Console

Readouts:

Mode (Low, Med, High), Speed (5-33 MPH), Charge Level (1-4)

Drive Mode:

Trigger Throttle, Twist Throttle, Cadence Sensing Pedal Assist

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph)

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Written Review

The EBO Front Range Kit is a mixed bag for me. I appreciate the more powerful 500 watt motor but given the gearless direct-drive design it weighs more than the more affordable planetary geared kits. Gearless motors are said to be tougher (no gears rubbing inside) and often allow for regenerative braking but that isn’t an option here. What you get is a relatively affordable, medium-power ebike kit. It operates quietly and should last well (you get a one year warranty which is great) but the display is more basic and there’s not throttle-only mode which can come in handy for off-road riding on bumpy terrain.

Even though the Front Range kit is compatible as a front or rear wheel motor, I would almost always choose to put it in the rear. The added weight in the front would definitely impact steering and might even spin out on loose terrain. At the rear, you get a more solid mounting point (especially if you’ve got a suspension fork up front as the demo bike I tried did) and you’re still balancing some of the weight forward with the downtube-mounted battery. The battery is actually one of my favorite parts of this kit because it uses quality Samsung cells, offers more capacity than some of the smaller kits and is easy to remove or lock onto the frame. This pack style is called a “Dolphin” and it can power your bike as well as a USB accessory given the female port on the right side. I’d mostly use this off the bike as a backup power source because when you’re pedaling it’s easy to snag this are of the pack (and any protruding USB plug and wire) with your shoe or leg.

I accidentally snagged the power cable running to the motor on this kit during the video review above and that goes to show how cable management can be a chore on any ebike kit. It’s nice to have your cables all zip tied up but even the best cable management can still look a bit tacky… that’s why all-black frames are a good choice because the cables blend in more. In addition to cables, this kit also has an independent controller box which can be mounted to the seat tube or possibly a rear rack. It’s just one more thing to deal with and it completely takes up the space for any kind of accessory or bottle cage when paired with the downtube style battery.

Overall, this is a solid package but generic gearless motors aren’t my personal preference. I’m a light weight guy who likes to pedal so I tend to opt for geared hubs or mid-drives. Some ebikes like the Stromer ST2 and Specialized Turbo show off what’s possible when you go high-end gearless because their motors are light, fast and offer regeneration but you’ll spend quite a bit more for that performance. I feel like the EBO Front Range motor could benefit from a 48 volt battery here to take full advantage of the extra copper windings inside but as it stands you’re going to get more power and drive than with some of their lighter kits. For true power however, I’m more excited about the EBO Mountaineer for just $100 more.

Pros:

  • There’s a built-in female USB port at the top right portion of the battery pack and this can be used to power a phone or other mobile device while riding the bike or as a backup source of power off the bike
  • Solid value at just over $1k considering you get a powerful 500 watt gearless motor and an oversized 14.5 amp hour battery! Most ebike kits offer 350 watt motors with a 10 ah battery, the cells on this bike are also Samsung and I trust that they are higher quality
  • Not only does Electric Bike Outfitters offer a one year comprehensive warranty, they also provide a 30 day money back guarantee and in my experience have been very willing to do custom swaps to get you the right wheel size or a different throttle unit (twist vs. trigger) free of charge or for very little money
  • Great wiring hardware (color coded makes it easier to setup and repair), the 5 Star brake levers are more generic but they do include motor inhibitor switches to cut power whenever you barke
  • Pedal assist is great for conserving the battery and getting some exercise and three modes is alright but I love that you’ve also got a throttle that can override at any time to help power up a hill or pass a fellow cyclist
  • The hub motor design on this kit is compatible with disc brakes but you can also use standard rim brakes as well, the one thing that requires a changeout is hydraulic brakes because the included levers only work with mechanical systems, you could use hydraulic levers of your own but if they don’t have electronic brake inhibitors built in you won’t be operating as safely (especially given the “all the time” pedal assist design)
  • The kit comes in several configurations to replace a 26″, 27.5″ or 700c wheel, to fit a 100 mm, 120 mm, or 135 mm dropout, and to work as either a front or rear wheel drive kit (though I’d highly recommend rear given the weight of the motor so as not to adversely impact steering)
  • The battery pack snaps on and off easily and quickly for convenient charging or lighter weight transport, you also get a solid locking core built into the battery for when it’s mounted to the frame
  • Especially for trail and mountain use the default trigger throttle works very well as it does not compromise your grip though it might take more space on your bars than the twist throttle (I just don’t like full-grip twists)

Cons:

  • I like the USB charging port but it’s positioned on the side of the battery which makes it easier to bump with your leg when pedaling or to snag the wire… would be better on the top or front end of the pack vs. the side
  • The controller unit for this kit is built into a separate black box which adds clutter to the frame and means more wires have to be dealt with
  • On the demo bike I filmed and photographed above the battery was mounted to the downtube using the stock water bottle cage bosses and the controller box was fit onto the seat tube so there wasn’t anywhere to add a bottle… Consider an aftermarket saddle rail adapter, a rear carry rack with bottle bag or using a Camelbak
  • The LED console offers several readouts (mode, charge level and speed) but is still more basic than an LCD which could show trip distance, time, max speed etc. the unit they chose is fairly small, tough and more affordable so it’s not too bad
  • The battery pack has an independent on/off button built into it which has to be activated before the display panel is turned on, this extra step makes the pack easier to leave on accidentally and can be confusing if you forget and try to activate the bike just using the display
  • There are no lights built into this kit and I think it would be difficult to wire them in, I like when I can run everything off of one battery but you can always get some aftermarket lights that are rechargeable if you ride at night a lot
  • While the cadence sensing pedal assist worked alright, it only uses a five magnet system vs. 12 on a lot of newer builds and kits I’ve seen which means it is less responsive (especially in higher gears where pedal rotation can be slower at low speeds)
  • Gearless motors are very durable and operate without producing much noise but they do weigh more and this one is ~12 lbs, the battery is also a bit heavier because it’s a larger capacity pack so ~7 lbs
  • Sometimes gearless motors offer regenerative braking which can extend rides by ~10% but that feature was not included with this kit (likely to keep the price down)
  • There is no throttle-only mode with this kit, you have to enable one of three pedal assist settings in order to use the throttle and this means that any pedal movement can also activate the motor which could cause instability for some applications
  • The pedal assist sensor is not a clip-on design so you actually have to remove the crank arms in order to mount it, once it’s on however it feels solid and is actually quite responsive

Resources:

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EPtrail
10 hours ago

I have a quick question after spending these last three days riding my new Radrover around Moab, Utah. Any suggestions on cleaning the dust, the dirt, the dried juniper and dried grass bits and pieces off the bike without creating problems with Rad's electronics? Particularly the drive train? I live along the relatively dry Rocky Mountain Front Range, so cleaning my Radrover may become a weekly, if not daily, task.

Thanks!

Phil M
2 days ago

I'm 6'3" 270lbs and the wife is 4' 11" 130 lbs. We were extremely new to ebikes and only started riding bikes again about 3 years ago after a +25 year break. We went with Radrover 4" fat tire bikes back in Sept/2016 and have about 1600 miles between both of them. What I like about them are:
- very affordable at $1500+shipping each
- upright riding position, ego hand grips, front suspension, very comfy
- Class II, 750w rear hub motor, 20 mph, throttle, 7 speed, headlight, 20-40 mile range
- fat tires are very comfortable and transition very easily from paved road, hard packet and soft trails, gravel trails, sandy trails, and mud.
- excellent customer service and a 1 year warranty

I upgraded my Radrovers with Bodyfloat v2.0 orange springs seatpost and Sunlite Cloud 9 seat for added comfort. I use mine to park my car and work commute now between 45-75 miles per week (depending on the weather). I figured I can get two Radrovers for the price of one of the other ebikes. I also get to see what I like and don't like in an ebike if I wanted to upgrade a few years down the road.
Thanks for intro to Radrovers... really like the price compared to other models w similar components .... so w you and your wife's size difference how is the fit for her? On the Radrover website looks like there's only one size?

mrgold35
2 days ago

I'm 6'3" 270lbs and the wife is 4' 11" 130 lbs. We were extremely new to ebikes and only started riding bikes again about 3 years ago after a +25 year break. We went with Radrover 4" fat tire bikes back in Sept/2016 and have about 1600 miles between both of them. What I like about them are:
- very affordable at $1500+shipping each
- upright riding position, ego hand grips, front suspension, very comfy
- Class II, 750w rear hub motor, 20 mph, throttle, 7 speed, headlight, 20-40 mile range
- fat tires are very comfortable and transition very easily from paved road, hard packet and soft trails, gravel trails, sandy trails, and mud.
- excellent customer service and a 1 year warranty

I upgraded my Radrovers with Bodyfloat v2.0 orange springs seatpost and Sunlite Cloud 9 seat for added comfort. I use mine to park my car and work commute now between 45-75 miles per week (depending on the weather). I figured I can get two Radrovers for the price of one of the other ebikes. I also get to see what I like and don't like in an ebike if I wanted to upgrade a few years down the road.

mrgold35
3 days ago

Are you looking at a beach cruiser, mountain bike, road bike, cargo, or comfort bike?

I have two 750w rear hub Radrovers with PAS 0-5 and a throttle that is about 60 lbs out the box and maybe around 70-72 lbs with my accessories mounted (rack, rack bag, suspension seatpost, lights, fender). It also has a very comfortable upright riding position for long distance.

I wouldn't want to ride this bike without PAS because the extra mass, tail heavy design, and increasing wind drag because of the upright riding position the faster you go. I can only ride this bike without PAS at very low speed of 6-12 mph on level ground with no wind, if I have a stiff tailwind, or downhill using gravity assist. I don't think rear hub motors on average are as efficient and you will not get the same range as mid-drives. I never riden a mid-drive; but, they seem to be lighter in overall weight on average, more balanced on weight because motor/battery are low and center mounted, larger gear ratio, more gears, more advance PAS, can apply more tq longer on inclines, and front/rear tire quick release (if you need to toss in the back seat for transport).

You might find hub drives bikes can be cheaper compared to mid-drives versions. I was able to purchase two Radrovers for the price of one mid-drive. I sometimes take my wife's 7 lbs battery when I need to ride +30 miles as a back-up. I've gone as far as 36 miles on a single charge and 2X that range with the spare battery. Hub motor can also be very easy to fix, upgrade, or convert to a mid-drive ebikes for a longer road life.

Seniorchief93
4 days ago

Hey guys!

Here is the Hill Topper electric bike kit from Clean Republic on my tandem bicycle, it's from Greenline Beach Cruisers and has 7 Speeds. I got it at Walmart. The frame is heavy at about 46 lbs but neatly finished. The front wheel was oval but now with the Hill topper in place we solved that lol.

Since we have a constant breeze over here it is a real great support. I only have to find out the exact distance we can reach given the battery pack capacity, it would be nice if it came with a battery check or range estimator to help with this.

When riding against the wind we bring it up to speed and start the Hill topper, we still peddle but with ease and with the temperature outside around mid 80 degrees Fahrenheit it is a pleasant ride (the basket is my wife's idea).

Greetings from a sunny island,
Alex
That

Derek S-H
5 days ago

Hi Tai

Good, detailed review and I'm pleased for you that you are enjoying your Gocycle, but I must say that I wouldn't recommend this bike at all.

For starters, the rear "shock" basically doesn't work and isn't fit for purpose. I'll admit that on flat terrain it's just fine, but give it anything resembling real life, badly maintained roads (like we have in the UK) and it just falls apart. The ride is bone-shakingly hard and unforgiving and I used to genuinely fear for my life going down steep bumpy hills, it was like trying to control a wild horse!

Secondly, it is ridiculously overpriced for a 3-speed with a relatively low range. It also has a long list of optional accessories that are similarly wildly overpriced.

It's good to see that they've improved the pedals as the originals had virtually no grip at all, especially in the wet. But disappointing to see they they persist with the rubbish slick tyres that have zero puncture resistance. Also, how are you supposed to lock this thing in public anywhere? It attracts attention, which is good, but it also attracts thieves, which is bad! Yes, you can buy lockable wheelnuts which renders the wheels non-quick release (which means you could then feed a cable lock through the wheels), but then the convenience of having quick release wheels is removed.

To me, it's a case of style over substance. The bike is fantastically designed aesthetically and does have useful practical elements as you've listed, but it also has a long list of cons and really only appeals to a very select group of consumers who can afford it. It is not a workhorse nor a daily machine, it feels more like a luxury purchase and something you'd only use sparingly, like owning a classic convertible or something!

I must emphasise that these opinions are based on my ownership of a G1 for around a year, it's obviously been improved upon since then and for some people it would be the perfect bike. But I wasn't sorry to see it go to another home and am enjoying my BESV PS1 (carbon fibre/aluminium frame, 7 speed, proper shocks front and rear, and beautifully clear centre mounted display) much, much more.

Best Wishes
Derek

Nicolas
7 days ago

GenZe lent me theire 101 e-bike about a year ago. Overall, I’ve been impressed with the bike considering the quality for that price. Is it perfect? Maybe not, but that also depends on what you’re looking for and what your budget is. Is it good enough? It is well above what I expected. I see this e-bike as a great first time electric bicycle that won’t send you running from the get go upgrading just about everything.

Who is GenZe?
I first met the GenZe folks at the Santa Monica AltCar Expo in 2014. GenZe is a Mahindra backed US company that assembles its e-bikes and e-scooter in Ann Arbor, Michigan. The new company was showing a promising electric scooter and an e-bike. Truth be told, despite covering the world of electric vehicles (EV) for over a decade, it was my second time on an e-bike and first on an e-scooter. The first e-bike I rode was a homegrown contraption that weighed a ton with an oversized front wheel motor. The unholy marriage of a conventional heavy bicycle and a beefy electric motor relying on regular brakes was scary at best. The e-bike unwieldy and although seemingly enticing, it just a heavy electric conversion of a Chinese bicycle frame. And yes, I know the Chinese can make good quality.

The Genze e-scooter is a well thought out exoskeleton electric two-wheeler frame that is fully connected. But what concerns us here is the e101 mountain e-bike.

The GenZe e101 E-Bike
The e101 is the first vehicle made by Genze, with its e-scooter. Currently, the company has an updated version, but I’ll keep to the original one.

The GenZe e101 is a mountain e-bike also offered as a recreational frame, known as the e102. The e101 comes with three different riding modes: throttle full electric, pedal assist, which comes in five settings, from low to strong assist, and an analog mode, which means good-old-fashion pedaling only. I never thought anyone would use the latter, but my wife proved me wrong!

The e-bike was well thought out considering it is already a few years old. The company uses an Alton aluminum frame made to its specifications, which is assembled in Ann Arbor. The battery is neatly incorporated in the downtube, as well as sporting a rear-hub motor, which was not so common a few years ago. At the time, I knew of only a few companies that made mid-drives.

I like the visible aluminum welding on the frame. Apparently, this caused a certain amount of controversy, as some in the company's focus group seem to like it, others not so much. I know the company had a hard time decided which one to chose. I’m glad they kept the visible welding.

Performance May Vary, GenZe Gets it Close
Claimed and real-life performance is remarkably close with Genze, something that doesn't always happen with other optimistic manufacturers. I’m 5” 9’ and weigh around 175 lb. I mostly do street riding and live near the beach. So far, I’ve put 625 miles on this particular e101 in over 8 months. I put another 100 miles on a previous e101 that was loaned originally over the period of three months.

Size:
The e101 accommodates three body heights with three frame sizes: 16”, 18” and 20", respectively for 5’ to 5’ 7” folks, 5’ 8” to 6’ and above 6’.

Price:
While $1,500 buys you a lot these days, a few years back this was an incredibly low price. At that time, most e-bikes of similar quality hovered around $2,000 to $2,500.

Weight:
The e101 weighs 46 lb, which is still an honorable weight these days. It rides on Alton Kenda 26”x 1.75” wheels.

Range & Speed:
I did achieve close to the claimed 20 MPH on a full charge. I averaged 19 to 19.5 MPH on a full charge. Why mention a full charge? As soon as the charge dips below 25%, the speed goes down to around 17 to 18 MPH. The company claims a 20-mile range in battery mode, which I managed to achieve, including one steep hill in the testing.

Motor & Battery:
The motor is a 250 W brushless rear-hub rated at 360V. I found this to be plenty for city riding despite its modest rating. All of this uses a Samsung 8.7 ah Lithium-ion 36V battery. It pops out fairly easily and locks in place with a key. It comes with a handle so that if you can carry it and recharge anywhere with a three-prong DIN type of connector.

As you can see from the numbers, it’s not a performance beast but this setup provides enough get up and go in almost all situations.

The derailleur is a Shimano Tourney TX 7 speed gear. It does the job well, as would be expected from most Shimano products. More serious riders will probably want to upgrade, but for an every day commuting e-bike, it does the job very well. The shifter is intuitive enough and ergonomically placed. I asked a few people to ride with no knowledge of modern shifters, and everyone understood the overall system. It doesn’t require much time getting used to for those not familiar with that sort of system.

The display is one of my favorite parts because it is generous and perfect for those of us whose eyes are not good enough to read small prints anymore. I’m over 50 and I can read this display at any time. The neat part is a backlight option, which has come in handy more than once at night.

Genze will deliver your e101 or e102 with no assembly required. The battery is covered for two years and the rest for 18 months.

Living With a GenZe e101
So far, I’ve liked that Genze e101 a lot. Considering the $1,500 price, the quality, and performance, this is a good entry-level e-bike for those needing a certain amount of quality but not yet ready to splurge in the $3,000 and above e-bikes. In many ways, it’s a perfect first e-bike for those eager to get into the market without upgrading everything within the first few months. It's a good medium riding e-bike, perfect for commuting and light off-road use. It has no suspensions and that means if you want to take it off-road, you will want to look into a front suspension fork.

The pedal assist is not the most sophisticated and can sometimes take a fraction of a second to kick in. This has surprised me on more than one occasion at a traffic light when I needed to get and up and go fast. It takes a good second to kick in, but this usually happens when I’m in the wrong gear. It doesn’t happen when I’m in a lower gear when the pedal sensor detects quicker you need power right now and delivers.

One thing I did replace was the central kickstand. For some reason, Genze uses a heavy central kickstand, probably to entice those who’ve never ridden a bicycle before. I switched it to a lighter aluminum sidekick stand I had lying around. Hey, anything to make an EV lighter!

I mostly spend my time in the fifth position of the pedal assist mode. Setting one, which has the lowest amount of pedal assist time comes in handy when riding at a more very leisurely pace with other people.

I'm not sure why throttle-only gets little love these days. It's just a choice and I like it having choices. I this option because plenty of time I find myself riding home late, tired or cold. All I want then is to keep one hand in my pocket and zip along the quickest route home.

Final Thoughts on the GenZe e101
The Genze e101 is an overall good entry-level e-bike that was affordable with enough performance and quality to please anyone without having to upgrade within the first month of ownership. Genze really kicked the mid and entry level e-bike price war, and we can only rejoice about that. Although there is more choice now in the $1,500 segment, GenZe is improving its e101 and e102. However, it seems the company is focusing on its great ex-cooter. It's a shame because I would be interested to see how much they can improve this bike, and perhaps even more what else can they offer to beef up their portfolio.

Overall, I found Genze struck a good balance between affordability and further down the road upgrades. More experienced riders will want to change the gearing system, tires and add a front suspension. When it comes to handlebars and seats, I know those run the gamut as far as style and quality. I’m sure there are improvements that can be made there.

All in all, this e-bike was a welcome boost a few years ago when similar quality stagnated into the $2,000 market segment. Genze came in well under and offered a good platform that won’t disappoint you and give you enough time before you start updating.

Stay tuned for the video.

1/11
Larry Ganz
1 week ago

sounds like your battery may have just needed a few cycles for it and the system to start working well together. The 23/28/37/73 is pretty wild...like seriously, 73?! that's really great. Of course it's just an estimate and will fluctuate with real world use.

It's great you are getting so much time on the bike. I wasn't able to ride at all on the weekend, and Monday/Tuesday (today) I needed to drive into work for various reasons. It's going to be a wet week here with rain so perhaps there wasn't much I could do about that anyway.

Did you get your U-lock location problem nailed? If not, do you think you can hang the mounting bracket off the seat post?

It is crazy, although I think the 73 mile estimate is only valid for the type of riding that I did that day, and I'm sure it would drop again after a few rides in my hilly neighborhood again. I planned to ride today at 4pm, but was waiting for a phone call that never came. We really need rain here though, so I'd welcome that at the expense of a ride.

Anyway, I do think it's accurate because my battery dropped one bar after 12 miles going slightly uphill, and dropped the 2nd bar after 31 miles total, while saying I had 39 miles left on 3 bars (31+39=70 miles with half uphill and half down). So on similar mixed mild hilly terrain I should get the same 12-18 miles per bar of battery (with a lot of ECO mode and a few bursts to TOUR or SPORT). I bet that when I start riding around my steep neighborhood for a week, that the 23-73 mile range just might drop back to 12-29 miles again.

I didn't see an easy solution to the heavy u-lock mounting problem. I hang a small tool bag behind/under the seat, along with a rear blinker/taillight, so no room for a lock - and there's too many wires/cables in front for a bar bag. The top bar is too short for a bag there. The battery uses up a lot of room inside the frame, so I can only use one bottle cage mount because the second one under the top bar would prevent me from putting the bike on our car rack. For under the bar I use a second "Velcro" mounted bottle cage and a tall bottle, because I can remove it for the rack.

So, I ended up ordering a pair of Ti 560G locks from Altor (to go with our kryptonite cables for the front wheels to deter casual wheel thieves). I can velcro it to a bar somewhere when riding, or remove one of my bottle cages to mount it, or stick it in my camelback since it's about 1/4 the weight of a Krytonite NY lock. I almost got a TiGR mini lock for both of us, but the 560G locks can be linked together and we'll have two locks with 4 identical keys, and its smaller when folded up.

1/3
thegutterpoet
1 week ago

I am a complete beginner to ebikes and have lost myself in trying to understand all the different options too quickly. And hoping that I can gain guidance from the seemingly knowledgable community here!

I live in Melbourne, Australia and recently earned myself a 6 month suspension from my beloved FZ1 motorcycle. Rather than accept the horror of public transport I am compelled to purchase an ebike. Understanding the laws...I remain eager upon finding a 1000W+ fat tyre ebike. My physio had one made by a pal for him a year ago for $2000, and I have always liked the look of the thing.

I do require pedal assist as need to ride the bike not just become the passenger, though to have the power there will be perfect.

Presently, I have little idea if they will fit together, or how the ride will be, but with pedal assist, a fair amount of power and a lovely looking bike I have come across these options:>

http://dillengerelectricbikes.com.au/electric-bike-kits/1000w-electric-bike-kit-10ah-upgraded-by-dillenger.html

http://www.progearbikes.com.au/Cracker-Hi-Vis-Green.html

Or is there an option already available which comes as a complete package within my price range? If so, please show me the light!

Although this one has smaller tyres, it seems a good deal? A bit of oomph? And likely comfortable enough for my 16km round trip commute?

I am 5ft 10 and around 10 stone...really just want something which will allow me to cruise more than pedal! My commute is a 6km straight well away from prying eyes on the road, then a 3km CBD stretch with a lot of tram lines, which is partly why I like the fat tyres.

Can I get a simple to install front wheel kit to apply to the bike mentioned or another with fat tyres another could suggest?

Kindly help me!

Larry Ganz
1 week ago

So we did a 30 mile ride today in ECO mode, on a gravel bike trail - mostly hard packed but some spots very loose and soft. I didn't need any pedal assist for a good part of the ride, but I purposefully turned it on to ECO mode for the entire ride in order to use up more of the battery, and to let it get a better estimate of usage and range over a longer distance. It can't estimate battery remaining if you aren't using any power.

On flat areas TOUR was just too much for this mild 800 foot climb over 14 miles (EDIT - the ride had some ups and downs, and so my Apple Watch gave me a total of 1200 feet climbed, but the turn-around point in Monument CO is about 800 feet higher in altitude than the starting point in northern CO SPGS).

I started with the full battery and the estimate of 29 miles (see previous posts), and by 5 miles into the ride it was estimating 32 remaining in addition to the 5 that I had ridden. By 12 miles I went down to 4 bars on the battery with an estimate of 35 more miles remaining on the battery. Using the bike estimates after 12 miles of riding with 35 remaining miles, I figured at least 47 miles range with this type of a mild climb (12+35=47).

At the top of the ride at 14 miles I still had 35 miles left on the estimate with 4 bars showing (14+35=49 miles). We rode the 14 miles down back to the car and I still had 4 bars left with 45 miles estimated left, because battery use was less on the way down. The 14 miles used + 45 miles remaining = 59 miles total range on a similar type ride with a mix of uphill and downhill riding.

So we went back up the trail and rode around (an even mix of climb and downhill) in order to get it down to 3 bars of battery. After another 3 miles, with 31 miles on the tripmeter it dropped to 3 bars, with 39 miles left on the estimate. That would give me about 70 miles total on mixed mild hills. This ride was similar to what we'd be doing on the other 32 mile ride in Glenwood Springs CO, and I could go on two of these rides and still have a little battery left over without charging.

In summary, after 31 miles the estimates were 12/15/21/39 miles of battery left with 3 bars = 70 miles range estimate. Total climbing was 1200 feet during the trip, after some ups and downs, but the destination was only 800 feet higher. I was not stingy with the pedal assist and several times I needed to go to TOUR or SPORT mode to climb a pretty steep but short section, especially on the last 50 yards uphill to the parking lot at the end when I used TURBO.

I'm charging the batteries now, even though I planned to run them down to zero with my next ride. While it was down to 3 bars on the display, I saw the 3rd bar blinking for only 2 minutes while taking a charge - then it became steady after just 2 minutes and the 4th bar started to blink while taking a charge. So I think I may have been very slightly under 60% battery after the 31 mile ride (at 12-18 miles per bar on the battery, depending on terrain).

My wife's Neko+ was estimating 42-57 miles remaining after this ride, with a combination of OFF and ECO. So maybe she could go 90+ miles on a charge with a similar trip, or 50% farther than me. She rarely used pedal assist on the way up, but used ECO on the way back for speed, so we could get to the car before dark. She used HIGH for two very short but steep climbs on the way back, but she did have some difficulty in the loose spots with her 1.5" knobby tires, which my fatter tires still got unstable pushing through. I think she kicked it up to high to power through those spots as well.

PS: My front white safety reflector must have vibrated off these bike during the ride - I didn't check to see if it was still tight and it's now gone. i did air up the tires before the ride - mine at the max 50 psi (30-50), and my wife in the middle at 65psi (50-80).

PPS: I popped my battery pack back on, and the current estimates on a full charge are now up to 23/28/37/73 for TURBO/SPORT/TOUR/ECO (when I received the PF7 it was estimating 29/36/48/94 after the shop mechanic set it up and test rode it). I'm pretty happy with my new numbers, as this ride is representative of the type of long rides we'll often go on, and the more challenging rides will be the shorter ones at higher pedal assist levels where the range wont be as important (like at Garden of the Gods or our neighborhood).

Strangely, my wife's Neko+ with Shimano Steps still shows 42-57 miles, even though it said that's what was left after the 31 miles.

Nicolas
2 weeks ago

I wanted to know what anyone thought of this Indiegogo campaign for what seems like a well specced e-bike.

https://www.indiegogo.com/project/preview/75e7e3dd#/

The fellow calls his bike a 30c3 because it weighs 30 lb, does 30 MPH and has a 30-mile range, thus 30 cubed. The price is not bad for a street e-bike, $1250 with shipping.

Specs:
Motor assisted bicycle mode 20 mph max speed
Moped mode 28 mph max speed
Motorcycle mode 33 mph speed (Turbo Porsche mode)
1000 watt 3 kg motor.
52v10, 520 watt hour battery.

He seems like an interesting character. I'm not sure what he means by "60T front chain ring."

Any thoughts, pros and cons? Thanks, Nicolas

america94
2 weeks ago

Hi @america94 , since our new Voltbike model is coming pretty soon, it would be no secret to release it here.
It features the same in-frame design battery as Yukon which is 48v 10.4Ah, the same LCD screen, 500w motor 8Fun, adjustable stem, front suspension SR Suntour, fenders, rear rack, chain guard, disc brakes Tektro and front and rear light (not seen at the photo.) plus Kenda tires 26x2.1". Price would be in the $1600 CAD range or $1300 USD. It will be available in black and white.

I second that motion @SuperGoop ! I think you got yourself a winner here @Voltbike . Very nice integrated rack, it looks great. Anyone not into fat bikes and mucho $$ will love this.

From my online research so far, I would say one of the best offerings at that price point for canadians (taking into consideration the reputation of Voltbike as a company in general and the reliability of their bikes).

Can you let us know the peak current limit (in amps) of the controller? looks like a twist throttle? 7 speeds? thanks

SuperGoop
2 weeks ago

Update: Thanks @Voltbike for revealing a pre-release picture. I like it. I think there will still be some minor changes. There will be front and rear lights. Probably more decals as well. I believe this will be the "Voltbike Elegant" line. @Voltbike also said the price will be in the CAD$1,600 (US$1,300) range, in both black and white. I wonder how much it weighs?

Voltbike
2 weeks ago

Hi @america94 , since our new Voltbike model is coming pretty soon, it would be no secret to release it here.
It features the same in-frame design battery as Yukon which is 48v 10.4Ah, the same LCD screen, 500w motor 8Fun, adjustable stem, front suspension SR Suntour, fenders, rear rack, chain guard, disc brakes Tektro and front and rear light (not seen at the photo.) plus Kenda tires 26x2.1". Price would be in the $1600 CAD range or $1300 USD. It will be available in black and white.

John B
2 weeks ago

I am looking to get my first electric bike. Been doing a bit of research but the permutations and options coupled with the wide range in price seem to be many. I have gone to test ride a handful of bikes but haven't gotten hooked on anything. I am not a bike rider, in fact I'm not a person who does much in the world any exercise. I am looking to potentially use this bike to commute to work 1 or 2 times a month and ride on weekends. My work commute would be 18-21 miles with a big mountain in between. For anyone familiar with Los Angeles, this is the valley to west side. The commute would be half fire roads (dirt roads) and half pavement (through city) so a mountain bike seems to be best option. So, here are the specs I'm looking for in this bike...

1. Mountain bike (not fat tire) with suspension on the front forks at least but better with full suspension.
2. Preferably a mid-drive motor (as I understand they are more efficient) with 500watts or better.
3. Enough power to get my unfit self up a lot of hills (like 8-10 miles of them) with not a lot of effort.
4. A battery option (thinking 14aH or better)that could cover my unfit self using the max setting on PAS (turbo, sport...) through most of my ride.
5. Class 2 or better class 3.
6. Here is the unicorn of the list... something $3000 or less.

Overall I need a lot of power, torque and battery life to get me over a pretty big hill without running out of power. I'm OK with just hearing thoughts on the best option with most of my dream list. I'm not opposed to getting earlier year models if they do what I need. I am also good with taking a good base and adding to it.

Larry Ganz
2 weeks ago

hey Larry, how are you liking your PF7? I recently got one too--and was deciding among the xm700+ and other options. Like you I went with the PF7 since I'm a mountain biker. Even though this bike will be used for commuting I felt way more comfortable on it vs. the commuter style bike.

BTW, for the U-lock you could consider going to a rack and pannier setup. That's what I'll be doing since I needed the rack for commuting.

Thanks. I'm trying to avoid a rack if possible - I wear a camelback for my gear, but don't want the added weight of a u-lock inside that, as sometimes I'll have an oxygen C-tank in there if I'm riding above 7500-8000 feet elevation (one working lung, so without eBike I needed the tank for every ride around here).

I LOVE THE POWEFLY 7 - MINI REVIEW:

It's quite well built, with nice welds and workmanship - everything is perfect except the following. I was surprised that the rear axel is not a 15mm thru axel like the front, but is a 9mm mountain bike quick release with slots instead (didn't know if this was typical). The seat padding is nonexistent, but if you get your butt back far enough it's livable, although I replaced it with a slim foam seat that's a little thicker. They also didn't run the derailleur cable inside the frame like with their other eBikes, so it runs along the right side of the lower frame while the rear brake line still runs along the left side. Lastly, I was surprised that the Deore XT shift lever doesn't display which gear I'm in for reference, while the feature is on the other 3 bikes.

It FITS me much better than the 50mm XM700+ that they originally ordered for me, or the 18" Neko+ and 17.5" Dual Sport+ that they had in stock. They did put a 17 degree riser on the handlebar stem (I think a 17x90), after having seen the issues I had on the other 3 bikes. With the riser the riding position is perfect - I've been able to ride down the 1140 foot hill from my house to the shopping center and back up to my home twice (6 mile trip each time), and my hands never went to sleep like with the Dual Sport+ and Neko+. I can lift the front wheel about 1" off the ground when straddling the bar, and I can just get my toes on both feet down to the ground when sitting on the seat.

VS the DUAL SPORT+: Despite the higher weight I still can hop up curbs fairly easily, and the fatter tires absorb the bumps better. At high speeds downhill on the road the PF7 is more stable and not as scary as the Dual Sport+ which put too much weight on my hands and seemed absolutely twitchy. I also have more confidence in the PF7's larger brakes and it's fatter tires which have a tight enough knobby pattern to work well on pavement and dirt. With the PF7 I could lean the bike farther in turns with more confidence, due to the larger contact patch.

BATTERY RANGE: My only concern is that the battery clearly isn't going to last as long as the Dual Sport+. After the ride on hilly roads yesterday and then giving it a full charge, it was estimating the battery will give me 16-48 miles on my next ride (in high vs low power). That's vs 30-55 miles estimated by the Dual Sport+ after the same ride and re-charging procedure. This includes my going to ECO or OFF whenever the ride is flat but requires pedaling, or downhill without pedaling. Before my riding it hard yesterday, the PF7 was estimating 29-94 miles, after only 1/4 mile of an easy flat-ground test ride by the shop after they assembled it.

After a quick 4 mile ride today (with only a 600 foot climb) and before I put it back on the charger, the PF7 estimated that I still had 13-42 miles of battery left to keep riding (13 miles in TURBO, 16 miles in SPORT, 21 in TOUR, and 42 in ECO mode). I would have been able to complete todays ride in only ECO and TOUR mode in the low gears, but I really needed SPORT and TURBO to finish it with decent double digit speed.

So, with a mix of all 4 power levels I believe that I could go an additional 18-21 miles on this hilly terrain; however, I'd prefer to have 30 to last a weekend before charging. But the 32 mile round-trip ride that we have planned this summer is fairly flat with only a slight climb of 300-400 feet over the first 16 miles, and slightly downhill on the way back, with two short hills both directions. So I should be able to make that particular 30+ mile trip just fine.

POWER: I'm not convinced that TURBO (300%) feels stronger than SPORT (200%) when I'm pulling a hill while seated in higher gears with a slower cadence. However, in the lower gears with a higher cadence I can really feel the increase in power on the hills. Unfortunately I poop out with a cadence rate about 65+, and tend to cruise at 50-60 rpm in higher gears, so I wont get as much benefit from TURBO except on a really hard steep hill at low speeds.

Teresa
3 weeks ago

Range difference for me had less to do with the hub placement and more to do with throttle vs pedal assist. With my hub system, the thumb drive was either on or off - no variation (it was a Clean Republic system). That's fine in town when commuting and frankly, you just want to get somewhere. But out on terrain which required more adjustments, it drained the battery fast. Also, the mid drive is much better for handling. It simply rides like a bike and the weight of the bike compliments the need for traction. Having the motor in the front hub was fine going down a road / bike path but lost traction easily in anything off road. The Clean Republic system was a great and easy way to cheaply get introduced to the ebike and I don't regret it at all. Frankly, 3.5 years later, I've loaned it to a coworker and she is still using it daily. I wouldn't recommend a wheel hub for a trailer system though. Either you end up with a front wheel with less traction or a lot of weight on the back tire. If you are a big guy, that doesn't help any either.

mrgold35
3 weeks ago

I have two Radrover 4" fat tire bikes with about 1200 mile between them since Sept/16 I use mostly to commute to work. The second bike is the wife's; but, I switch off bikes to keep wear/tear the same. I also like riding after work and weekends (paved bike trails down to single track). I put around 45-75 miles per week depending on the weather. My work commute is only 6.5 miles one way; but, I sometimes take detours to ride the bike trails near the Rio Grande river. I can do 20-25 miles on a single ride if I do that.

My likes for the fat tire bike are:
- Fat tires do an excellent job smoothing out the ride as I transition from paved roads, side walks, curbs, dirt lots, hard packed dirt trails, sandy trails, pockmarked/washboard trails, and rocky conditions on a single ride. I also added the Bodyfloat seatpost that also helps smooth out the ride if your ebike doesn't have a full suspension.
- Only need 15 PSI plow through sand that would stop thinner tires or 20 PSI for paved road to improve battery/motor efficiency. I split the difference at around 17-18 PSI to handle both surfaces on a single ride.
- Having a front suspension is helpful in smoothing out the ride
- Stopping power, I think my +70lbs fat tire ebike stops better than my 32lbs 700c bike because of the larger contact patch of the tires (both have cable disc brakes).

Some dislikes are:
- knobby tires are noisy on asphalt/concrete. Upgraded to Vee Rubber 8 26X4 120 tpi tires and they have less road noise and still have very good grip on hard packed and softer trails.
- At 62lbs+another 10-12lbs for rack/bag/accessories makes it a heavy bike if you need to pedal without power
- HUGE, takes up a lot of space and hard to stuff in a back of a SUV and hard to lift on a bike rack. My wife at 4'11" and 130lbs cannot lift the Radrover onto or Saris Freedom SuperClamp 4 platform bike rack
- zero public transportation options. You need a full size SUV, pick up bed, or push your bike if you have issues.

I was able to purchase two Radrovers for the price of one of the more expensive eMTB. I think if I had to do it all over again (since the wife hardly rides her bike), I would looked into a 2.25" 2.8" tire eMTB with full suspension and mid-drive. You still get the fat tire benefits, easier to perform tire maintenance (front/back quick release), more balance bike because of no rear hub, lower center of gravity, usually greater range/power, usually lighter weight, smaller size, and easier to handle (public transportation back on the table).

mrgold35
3 weeks ago

I would check out your local laws for ebikes like:
- any bike path (paved and unpaved) or sidewalk restrictions
- any local restrictions on max ebike power allowed
- special rule or regulations locally for class I & II compared to class III bikes
- public transportation restrictions/limitations/availability

I would also factor in:
- max range (can mean longer time between charges)
- power (for transporting extra weigh and leveling out hills)
- battery power upgrades, extra wattage and amps will mean longer range, longe time between charges, and more power for hills
- 4 season gear
- Tires can I upgrade from summer to studded winter tires
- night gear (lights, reflective clothing)
- security (able to store indoors at work or stuck outdoors in public in the weather)
- locks, cable, chains, U-bolts
- GPS monitoring (bluetooth and/or cellular)
- charging (home, work, and on the fly)
- weight (If you need to carry up several flights of stairs AND how much gear can you carry for commuting and shopping)
- footprint A folding bike might work better than a full size for storage
- accessories, how easily can I add storage like front rack, rear rack panniers, or tow the kid behind in a trailer, etc...
- back up plan if you can't complete your commute (flat tire, mechanical failure, weather, health, etc...)

Larry Ganz
3 weeks ago

Thanks for the link, I have looked at the specs and it seems very much like my Powerfly 7. The components don't seem to be "top shelf". You might want to upgrade those if you have problems with shifting and braking. I upgraded all my components to XLR very much overkill. I think that SLX or XT are all that are needed. 180mm rotors may be fine for you, depends on how much downhill braking you expect to be doing. Mine comes with 6-bolt 203 front and 6-bolt 180 in the rear.

I think that the PF5 is built for a price £2950.00($3600). That's much less money than I paid for mine at approximately £4000.00. For that much savings you are getting a lot of bike for the money.

The best parts are the tank-like Trek frame, the Bosch mid-drive system, and the 500 Ah battery.

Let me know how it turns out.

jeff

Jeff - knowing that you have a Powerfly 7 and that you gave me advice in your XM700+ mods thread, I also posted many of these questions there first. Could you answer a few questions please?

I'm new here, so sorry if this gets to be a pain, and sorry it's so long - in person discussing each point pro and con could be made more easily and be less cumbersome.

I would like to make a decision by tomorrow afternoon between ordering the Powerfly 7 or buying the DualSport+ that I had on extended test ride this weekend. I'm torn trying to decide right now.

From the frame specs, the PF7 might fit me better without making me reach so far for the bars, as with the DS+ I keep finding myself trying to sit on the front part of the seat. Otherwise I don't have any major gripes about the DS+ where I have been on rides yesterday and today that I could NEVER do on a regular bike.

SPEED QUESTION: I decided to skip the XM700+ since it feels too tall for me and it's a class 3 bike that can be treated differently from a regular bicycle, where I might be forbidden from riding in places where my wife's Neko+ is allowed. But I loved the Bosche's extra power, although it almost seemed like the XM700+ motor was holding me back once I hit the top speed limiter, where the pedal resistance really went up and held me back. I'll be mostly riding with my wife who rarely goes past 15-20mph, so a 20mph limit isn't a major issue.

But does the Powerfly 7 (or your XM700+) seem to hold you back if you want to go over the limiter speed under your own steam? The DualSport+ Shimano motor cuts out at 20mph but I could hit 26mph on flat ground for briefs periods of time while pedaling.

POWER QUESTION: On the DualSport+ extended test ride I noticed it has a power output gauge that shows whether you are using just a little bit or a lot of the motor's potential output - a black bar on the LCD stretches out from left > right as you put more force into the pedals or as you click to a higher power level. I maxed out the line several times in a few places along the route on the ride today. I was able to push through those tough spots, but in HIGH power I had to drop it down to one of the 3 lowest gears in a few climbs in order to maintain a high enough cadence rate to keep it at 5-8mph while using full power.

The Shimano power assist seemed to be greater with a high cadence/pedal rate, and it tops out at 50NM torque vs 75NM of the Powerfly 7. How does your Powerfly 7 handle pedal assist in the higher gears vs lower gears? i.e. can it push through using a higher gear than recommended at low speed (grunt), or are you also forced to downshift to get your cadence up in order to get more output?

With my health issues, today's ride would have been an impossible without an eBike. I could happily live with the DualSport+ power output for the types of rides we'll most often go on. But I'm afraid that someday I'll go on a new ride for the first time where I'll find it to be more challenging than I expected for the Shimano's power output. Do you think the 75NM torque is enough reason to get the Powerfly 7, or do you think the DualSport's greater range in HIGH power would be more beneficial because then I could leave it in HIGH more often and not wear myself or the battery out too fast?

RANGE QUESTION: So my previous question leads to the next issue. I'm mostly worried about range on hilly paved roads and hilly packed gravel roads with the Powerfly 7 vs the DualSport+. I can't find a published estimated range for the Powerfly 7, while I've read numbers of 30-75 miles with the Shimano powered bikes, and read about 15-65 miles for the Bosche powered XM700+, depending on conditions.

Today we rode 10 miles on hilly pavement with a cumulative elevation gain of over 1600 feet. We started out at the high point, rode downhill, pedaled back up, and then repeated this 5 mile loop once. By the end of the ride my DS+ battery had dropped to 78%, and my wife's Neko+ was down to 86% - potentially giving me a 45 mile range vs my wife's 70 mile range.

My goal is to have at least 30 miles of range with the PF7 on a ride like this, but the XM700+ that I tried was estimating that I'd only go 19 miles in TURBO, 21 in SPORT, 24 in TOUR, with 55 in ECO.

Using the above XM700+ range estimates, I calculate that if I went about 25 miles in ECO mode then I'd still have 50% of battery available for use in TURBO or SPORT mode, which would translate to at least 10 more miles, for a 35 mile ride (depending on conditions). Since the PF7 has a 500WH battery pack with lower top speed than the XM700+, and based on your experience, how much better range would the PF7 get vs the XM700+ or DS+ in general?

I'm trying to estimate how this would all translate to the Powerfly 7, and I assume that if it has 30% less range than the DS+ today, that it could still complete a ride like this for 30 miles before running out of juice.

OTHER CONCERNS: I like the USB charging port, which only the Bosche Treks have. I also like that the Powerfly 7 has bigger brakes and wider tires than the Dual Sport+, but I worry that the fatter tires would make it harder to pedal with the motor off.
Do the benefits to ride quality and traction from the fatter 29x2.3" tires outweigh the added rolling resistance of the PF7 tires for long rides on pavement and packed gravel, or is increased rolling resistance not even an issue with the PF7?

The DS+ and Neko+ have everything but the hydraulic brakes run through the frame.
Does the Powerfly have anything internally wired through the frame like the others, because it doesn't appear so in the photos?

Does the PF7 have a quick release rear wheel like the Dual Sport+, and can a kick stand be added that works as well as the one on the DS+? (can't find pics of the bike's left side)

Do you have any other advice that you can share?

Matt A
4 weeks ago

Interesting stuff indeed. Which Charger is your girlfriend buying? I think you volunteered yourself to bring us a Charger review as well!:) What are your impressions thus far of the Nuvinci?

Yes, I can get up to about 25 mph in Eco on good pavement on a flat without tremendous effort. I did find myself wishing I had more gear range to push it up more without having to jump up to Tour or beyond in order to maintain or increase my speed. I felt that with just a little more gear range I could get a bit more from the battery by getting a bit more out of my body. I thought about that dual battery for my rather long work commute (the Charger can be ordered with dual battery I believe) but ultimately I felt, at least for my case, that it might be more practical to buy an extra charger for my office. On the one work commute I have made since owning the bike, I did about 36 miles in probably 80-85% Eco mode (on a rather cold day using the neoprene sleeve). The bike said I still had 17 miles of range in Eco remaining when I finished. But I would like to use Tour mode more in order to reduce my commute time so I think I really need to charge at work. I think I'd be satisfied if could do the commute in 50% Eco mode. That should be a good compromise between getting a good workout and also having ability to speed through the tough parts of my commute.

While the single battery is probably more practical for a work commute where I have to lock the bike in a public area, if I had any ability to do some bicycle touring or camping etc, that dual battery setup would have been a no-brainer.

Most likely she will be getting the GT Nuvinci. Haha yes we can review that too but it will probably be a month or two by the time she decides to buy and then it ships.

So far I do like the Nuvinci, but there are some things you have to learn about it from experience. The gear range is fine for my uses, I have very few long stretches where the higher gear would really do anything for me, I just use it on city streets with lights and stop signs constantly. I like that you can shift while standing still, but it is resistant to shifting if you are pedaling. I find that from a stop, I have to stop pedaling as I speed up and change gears. You can switch gears somewhat while pedaling, but to get to the highest gear you have to stop pedaling while you change it.

I think it will be a good idea for you to charge while at work. If you don't need the range of the extra battery, then you are better off with an extra charger. With a full battery you could probably get one way to work using only Tour, so you could do any combination of Tour and Eco and even Sport or Turbo if you wanted, and still make it one way. When I ride, I stop and start a lot with cars behind me so I use Turbo from a stop and then go down to tour to just keep pace with the cars. Being on city streets, I can ride in front of cars just fine because I can go the same speed, and they take a lot longer to get through stop signs.

The dual-battery is great for very long trips. If my girlfriend gets the Charger with dual battery, I could carry two batteries in the pannier bags and then have over 250 miles of range in Eco!! lol

Great posts in here! Matt you're definitely not annoying! I really enjoy hearing from and learning about all of the unique uses of these bikes. I can only learn so much from my own usage, I'm really thankful for you, @Over50 and others on the forum that share their experiences. It helps us grow this thing in a smart way.

Excited to see you on here and looking forward to seeing more of your posts Matt ;)
I can definitely tell you enjoy helping customers and hearing their experience, I was just joking, but I did feel kind of annoying sometimes:) lol I still am enjoying the bike, it rides great. Getting close to 200 miles on it in this first week! I will continue to update on here about the experience and will keep preparing the video review, but I do want to wait until I have the bike totally complete, can't wait to use that supernova at night! :D

Congrats Matt! Looking forward to your impressions/review of the Delite.

I just purchased the Rohloff Delite GX HS that is currently on Chris's floor. You probably demo'd it at the shop . . . don't want to hijack your thread, so as I get the chance, I'll start another one with details and my experiences with it.

Keep us posted.

Thanks! Congrats on your purchase as well! I did try that bike out, it was great. It would be cool if you could share your experience on this thread about the bike. I think anything Delite is free game in here. I think it would be helpful to everyone here if we continue this thread with new experiences and stories, I don't think mine alone could keep this thread going :) But it's up to you, I don't want to stop you from doing your own thread either!

86 and still kicking
4 weeks ago

Thinking about getting rid of my ST2 for another better capable ebike. Chicago streets are just horrible to ride a bike that has no suspension. Yes I have the bodyfloat seat suspension but I still want a better ride quality. This bike is a dream to ride once you’re on good pavement but when you are riding on rough, pot filled streets well not so much.

I want a bike that has a nice suspension system such as the Haibikes Xduro full seven S 7.0 or a Bulls E-Stream evo, or something to that effect. The only issue is that I am used to the power, performance and range of the ST2 battery and engine, I’m not familiar with mid drive engines, but Bosch and Yamaha seem to be making a name for themselves. Thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks~
We have installed front suspension forks from Stromer with no issues. There are also stem related suspension options that may help. I wrote the review for the Sta-Fast and it was satisfactory for my purposes.

Larry Ganz
4 weeks ago

Well, I have a dilemma, from issues on multiple fronts, and need help with a decision. Mostly about bike size, but a little about whether I picked the wrong bike style just to get the more powerful Bosche 350W vs 250W motor (while trying to figure out how the 250W gets 75NM torque vs only 63 from the 350W motor).

The bike came in and is at the bike shop. It would have been ready this weekend but Trek shipped it without a key to remove the battery. So the Trek representative has to come to the shop early next week (Mon/Tues) to re-key the battery lock. He is willing to give me the lock core and keys from his Trek Powerfly so that I don't have to wait too long to get new ones. I have no idea how he plans to remove the current lock core when the battery is locked onto the bike (it shipped assembled, wheels and all, except for the handle bars not installed).

Unfortunately, in the meantime this 50mm bike is very tall for me, and it's the smallest XM700+ they make. Just standing over the top tube is a "nut crusher". I'm 5-9 (215 lb) with a 30" inseam for my pants (31" pants tend to drag the ground a little) and the standover is about 80mm, which is 31.5". I've only owned mountain bikes for the past 25 years and a tall road bike is new to me. When straddling the top tube I can only lift the bike front tire up 1/4 to 1/2" before my nuts are in my throat and it won't go higher, and the dealer says this is normal.

Not only is the top tube a nut crusher, but with the proper seat height to reach the pedals with full leg extension I can only get one foot down on the ball of the foot if I don't come off the seat. If I don't slide off the seat I feel like I'll fall over, and again the dealer says this is normal.

If I slide forward off the seat to straddle the top tube (not recommended as per above) then I barely have any room between the seat and handle bars to maneuver the bike at a walking pace. This is because the bike with swept back bars may be too short in length for me (yet too tall at the same time). The shop wants me to try it with a 90x100 stem at 15-17 degrees to move the bar up and forward so I still have a relaxed riding position and weight off my wrists.

Next, the suspension travel seems much shorter than 35mm (about half that), and I wanted to be able to ride a few trails with my wife on her Neko+ and I'm worried that the street tires and short travel will be a problem. That's why I considered the Paragon Gold forks that Jeff is rocking, and maybe losing the street tires and fenders for larger and more aggressive knobby tires. But without fenders I'd still only be able to go up to a 42 or 45 tire to fit inside the fork and rails (it has 40c on the bike now).

Additionally, I'm being told that some bikes are too fast to be allowed onto some trails, and that the XM700+ could get me into trouble here in Colorado. I'm sold on only the Bosche system (no Shimano please), and wanted the 350W motor on the XM700+ as I'm 215 lbs with one working lung at 6000+ feet, and need to be able to climb 800 feet over 2.7 miles to get back to my house, with a grade that varies from 2% to 10% (avg 6%). I had no idea at the time the Powerfly Bosche CX motor had 20% more torque. My understanding is that more torque will get me moving more quickly (grunt), and more power will keep me moving more easily (speed), and I need climbing power and distance more than speed.

After a short test ride (1 mile) my Intuvia display says I'll get 53 miles on ECO, 27 miles on TOUR, 23 miles on SPORT, and 19 miles on TURBO mode. My wife's Neko+ display right now says she'll get 58 miles in ECO, 48 in NORM, and 43 in SPORT on a single charge. That's a lot more range than mine, unless I don't use anything higher than ECO mode. I really want closer to 30 miles minimum for some of the rides that we'll do, and I was going to add the 500WH battery to get me there. The 500WH already comes on the Powerfly 7/8FS+ and it will hit my goal of 30 miles in SPORT mode (level 3/4) vs 23 for the XM700+. And I'm told it will do 43 miles in TOUR (level 2/4) vs 27 for XM700+.

It was only today that I saw that the Powerfly 7/8FS+ has more torque (75 NM vs 63NM) despite only 250W, and just gives less top speed and more range in return. I won't be commuting with my bike on the streets (except to go down to the shopping center at the bottom of Cheyenne Mountain). Rather, we'll be riding on both paved and gravel bike paths most of the time, plus a few trails that can be fairly bumpy and loose. I picked the XM700+ more for the 350W power than it's 28MPH top speed. I won't be going faster than 20 if I want my wife to keep up and not make me suffer later for leaving her in my dust, but I need the 63-75 NM of torque from the Bosche over the 50NM from the Shimano drive on the Dual Sport+ and Neko+.

If I upgrade my suspension and tires, and maybe order a 500WH battery pack, I'll be closer to the price of the Powerfully 7 or 8S. With those I'll only need a handlebar stem riser (and maybe new bars) to get to a less aggressive riding position with less weight on my hands. I've only made a deposit on the bike, and I don't pay the balance until I take delivery (after they get the battery lock core and keys replaced).

Basically my concerns in a nut shell are:
(1) is it too tall ?
(2) is it not long enough ?
(3) is 400WH not enough juice for distance on the 350W motor ?
(4) is the 75NM/250 watt motor with 500WH battery and 20MPH top speed a better choice for me wanting increased ride range and climbing hills (vs 63NM/350W/400WH)?
(5) On the Trek website it says top speed for power assist on the Powerfly 7/8FS+ is 20MPH in one spot, and 15MPH in another spot. So which is it?
(6) is the XM700+ speed-pedelec too fast to legally take on many off-road mountain bike trails, and how badly will the front mono-shock hold it back on slower off-road rides?

ADVICE PLEASE: Should I just take a step back and have them order a Powerfly 7 or 8FS+, and then do the stem riser on that bike to get the weight of my old wrists? I have to know if the upgrade to 75NM torque in the PF7 or 8FS+ is enough to offset it's less powerful 250W motor for climbing hills vs the XM700 350W/63NM motor.

PS: if the riding position is too aggressive my right hand will go to sleep after 15 minutes - not counting the Lift+ that I don't want, the XM700+ is the least aggressive of the Trek eBikes.

Robert Wetzel
1 year ago

Nice review as always - you guys at the other side of the big lake sure have not only the nicer landscapes, but also the nicer e-bike laws. All we get here is 250 Watts / 25 km/h or 500 Watts / 45 km/h but in the latter case you already need a driving license, a helmet, a license plate, are not allowed on bike paths and so on.....bummer.

Anyways, is there a chance you might make a more general video explaining the differences between the geared and gearless hub motors? What are the respective advantages, and so on....
Thanks for the good work anyways, keep it up!

Robert Wetzel
1 year ago

+ElectricBikeReview.com
Wow, thanks for the quick and exhaustive answer! I can see how you are a very light person by most standards, and this affects engine performance of course. At 230 lbs, and another 70 lbs by the bike, I'd often wish for more than just 250 Watts.
Thank you also so much for the link, I'll read it right away. Your verdict about mid-drives is surprising, as most other reviews I came across laude the Yamaha over the Bosch as the former is supposed to be more powerful (70 Nm vs. 60 Nm, no idea how many lb ft that would be in your whacky system ;-)) as well as being quieter.
What positively surprised me about the Bosch was its endurance - we rented two mid-drive pedelecs in Switzerland and the battery lasted a little shy of 50 km with about 1500 meters height difference, and performed decently until the very end.
With my cheap system power will noticeably fall when passing about 70% battery.

ElectricBikeReview.com
1 year ago

+Robert Wetzel Yeah... I've heard about the restrictive laws in some parts of Europe. Fun fact, the 750 watt 20 mph law was passed under George W. Bush here in the US... it's like one of the only cool things he did while in office :P

Great question on the hub motors, I've created an article about it here: http://electricbikereview.com/guides/difference-between-ebike-motors/ with some great pictures and I'll probably do a video in the future. The short answer is that geared is lighter, peppier and usually more affordable but doesn't offer power regeneration and might not last as long (gears rubbing inside vs. just magnets). I'm an active type of rider and I don't weigh much so I usually choose geared. These days I've really developed a taste for mid-drive motors and you can get these awesome kits with shift sensing (to reduce wear and strain on your chain) from e-RAD which offer pedal assist and throttle actuation: http://electricbikereview.com/category/e-rad/ otherwise I really like Bosch (Impulse and Yamaha are pretty good as well but not as responsive and "quick" feeling in my opinion).

DrZarkloff
1 year ago

still the Sonders is more bike for the money. when will these kit manufacturers get with the program?

ElectricBikeReview.com
1 year ago

+DrZarkloff The Sondors has been a decent deal for people in the US who got them delivered. I still get emails from people in the UK and Australia that haven't received theres (in fact I heard most of Australia was refunded because of legal restrictions?) not everyone wants a fat bike frame so kits like this can be great, Electric Bike Outfitters sells several others for even less like the "EBO Commuter" that's rated at 350 watts just like the Sondors http://electricbikereview.com/electric-bike-outfitters/ebo-commuter-kit/

James Jacocks
1 year ago

Court, you have a strong international following-very good show! Yes, Denver is a great place to live (or ride bikes). I an looking for a front wheel kit for my beloved Fisher hybrid from the early nineties. It is a light bike with a bumper shock. Any ideas? Great vid, per usual!

Flo Mo
1 year ago

Your bike tests are cool. Now I feel like I'm in Denver/Colorado. :) It's great to ride with you on the test bikes. You make very good shots. Thanks for that. Greetings from Berlin.

LUIZ FELIPE MENDONÇA RIBEIRO
1 year ago

Congratulations on video

ElectricBikeReview.com
1 year ago

+LUIZ FELIPE MENDONÇA RIBEIRO Thanks, doing my best, lots more to come ;)