Dillenger Street Legal Electric Bike Kit Review

Dillenger Street Legal Electric Bike Kit Review
Dillenger Street Legal Electric Bike Kit
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Shengyi Geared Hub Motor
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Downtube Battery Pack 36 Volts
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit King Meter Display Panel Thumb Throttle
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Remote Button Pad
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit 12 Magnet Cadence Sensor Ring
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Battery Mounting Plate
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Battery Plug And Usb Charging Port
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Bundled Cables Zip Tied To Frame
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Front View
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Side View Battery Mount
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Wiring For Wheelm Motor
Trek 7 2 Fx Bicycle Electric Bike Conversion
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Unboxing
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Wheel With Hub Motor Boxed
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Battery Cables In Boxes
Dillenger Street Legal Electric Bike Kit Review
Dillenger Street Legal Electric Bike Kit
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Shengyi Geared Hub Motor
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Downtube Battery Pack 36 Volts
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit King Meter Display Panel Thumb Throttle
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Remote Button Pad
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit 12 Magnet Cadence Sensor Ring
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Battery Mounting Plate
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Battery Plug And Usb Charging Port
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Bundled Cables Zip Tied To Frame
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Front View
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Side View Battery Mount
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Wiring For Wheelm Motor
Trek 7 2 Fx Bicycle Electric Bike Conversion
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Unboxing
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Wheel With Hub Motor Boxed
Dillenger Street Legal Ebike Kit Battery Cables In Boxes

Summary

  • An electric bike kit that includes everything you need to get rolling aside from an inner tube and tire (consider buying in advance or using the one off of your target bicycle)
  • Available in 20, 24, 26, 27.5 and 28 inch wheel sizes! That means you can convert everything from trikes to city bikes and even mountain bikes to electric, it's relatively easy and fast to install, the cadence sensor clips on so you don't have to remove crank arms
  • Offers a variable speed trigger throttle for smooth but instant power as well as pedal assist with a 12 magnet super-responsive cadence sensor, you also get a remote button pad for easy control of assist levels while riding
  • The geared hub motor freewheels so there's no drag but it does still add weight to your front wheel and this impacts steering (and can lead to speed wobble when riding no-handed), the axle and hub screws were were wider than our fork allowed which required some filing

Search EBR

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National eBike Shops

Electric Cyclery
900 N Coast Hwy
Laguna Beach,  CA  92651
Propel Bikes
134 Flushing Ave
Brooklyn,  NY  11205

Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

Dillenger

Model:

Street Legal Electric Bike Kit - Samsung Power

Price:

$699

Suggested Use:

Neighborhood, Urban

Electric Bike Class:

Throttle on Demand (Class 2)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

1 Year Comprehensive

Availability:

United States, Australia, United Kingdom, Europe

Model Year:

2016

Bicycle Details

Total Weight:

17 lbs ( 7.71 kg )

Battery Weight:

7.7 lbs ( 3.49 kg )

Motor Weight:

6.3 lbs ( 2.85 kg ) (8.7 lbs Including Wheel)

Rims:

Aluminum Alloy, Double Wall, Eyelett

Spokes:

13 Gauge Stainless Steel, Black

Wheel Sizes:

20 in ( 50.8 cm )24 in ( 60.96 cm )26 in ( 66.04 cm )27.5 in ( 69.85 cm )28 in ( 71.12 cm )

Accessories:

USB Charging Port on Battery

Other:

Locking Removable Battery, EB-BUS Waterproof Cable Set, SANS 36V 2A Smart Charger, KT Sign Wave Controller with 7-15 Amp Operating Range, Hold Up and Down to Enter and Clear Trip Meter

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

Shengyi DGW07

Motor Type:

Front-Mounted Geared Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

350 watts (Restricted to 250 Watt in Europe)

Battery Brand:

Samsung ICR 18650-26F 2600 mAh

Battery Voltage:

36 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

13 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

468 wh

Battery Chemistry:

LiMn2O4 Lithium Ion

Charge Time:

6.5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

25 miles ( 40 km )

Estimated Max Range:

50 miles ( 80 km )

Display Type:

King Meter KT3, Fixed, Backlit, Monochrome

Readouts:

Speed, Battery Level (4 Bars), Assist Level (1-5), Odometer, Trip Meter, Max Speed, Average Speed, Voltage, Watts, Temperature

Display Accessories:

Independent Button Pad

Drive Mode:

Trigger Throttle, Cadence Sensing Pedal Assist

Top Speed:

20 mph ( 32 kph ) (Restricted to 15.5 MPH in Europe)

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Written Review

Dillenger offers some of the most polished electric bike conversion kits I’ve tested and their Street Legal Samsung Power product is one of my favorites. This kit is well priced at ~$700 including the motor, controller, display, throttle, battery and all of the wires you need to get up and running. The only things it does not included that will require extra money and effort to install are a an inner tube and tire. This saves waste because you probably already have a tube and tire on your soon-to-be converted bicycle… but it requires some doing and possibly even tools that you don’t have like tire levers. I also used a bike stand to get this kit on and you can find them for ~$100 which will save your handlebars and seat from wear (if you plan on flipping your bike). We had to flip our bike once to modify the fork and used some of the cardboard and foam packing materials from the box which was free :D

Okay, so installing this kit took longer than I expected (or perhaps remembered as I had already installed their older version a couple years back) but that’s just how it goes sometimes… because every bike is different. In this case, we used a Trek 7.2 FX model. It seemed like the perfect platform because the downtube was very open and had bottle cage bosses (offering plenty of strength and space for the battery pack to mount). Ultimately, we ran into some challenges because the dropouts on the fork were a millimeter or two too narrow and had to be filed down to fit the hub motor axle. We also had to file the screw heads on the hub motor itself so they wouldn’t rub on the sleek fork. This kind of alteration is always a little scary and might require even more tools (we used a standard mill bastard file) but that’s what I’ve come to expect with kits because it’s never truly one size fits all. I love that this kit comes in a range of wheel sizes 20″ to 29″ where the motor is spoked-in to a rim. That versatility comes with the trade-off of not being perfectly suited to any one specific bike. The rim might be narrower or wider than yours and the spoke colors might not match. I actually really like the black paint job on the hub motor, spokes and rim here because it helps them to blend in. There’s always going to be some screwing around when it comes to kits and even if the effort is minimal, the extra wires aren’t going to look as sleek and clean as if they were run through the frame, as is the case with purpose-built electric bikes. For this build, we were using a black bike so the black wires sort of fade away and the whole thing turned out really nice.

I like saving money, I love how well designed the Dillenger kits are (with color coded wires) and appreciate more open systems that give you throttle and pedal assist modes (making this a Class 2 ebike). I was a bit surprised that you can’t use the throttle at assist level zero for “throttle only” operation but it works great in level 1 and offers full power with variable output (so you can press gently for slower, less powerful operation). I enjoyed riding around with minimal assist then juicing it to climb a hill, take off from a stop sign or catch up with my friend. The display, throttle and independent button pad (used to switch the display on and select from five levels of assist) were easy to position and ultimately reach while riding. Our brake levers were integrated with the shifters and that kept the cockpit clean but didn’t align as well for the brake lever motor inhibitor sensors. The display isn’t removable which is a bit sad given how nice it looks (hoping nobody messes with it at the bike racks). I also struggled to figure out how to change settings like going from metric to imperial but my guess is that it’s possible? To activate backlighting you just hold the up arrow for a few seconds and holding the down button will turn on walk mode which is neat.

At 350 watts (250 for parts of Europe) the power offered by this kit is average but the battery pack is above average with 36 volts and 13 amp hours! That’s nearly a half kilowatt hour total meaning you should go further with each charge. Of course, if you don’t pedal and constantly gun it to top speed your mileage may suffer. The Euro version should deliver higher range as air resistance efficiency loss is much lower at lower speed. Note that you can ride above the top assisted speed if you pedal hard and the wheel freewheels efficiently, nothing will hold you back besides your own strength and endurance :) At the end of the day, the kit isn’t quite perfect (I wish it came with a paper instruction sheet for one) but I guess that just like the tube and tire, they are saving money and reducing waste. Instructions are available online and Dillenger has wonderful customer support options with multiple phone numbers (for the US, UK and Australia where the company is based). Even though I’ve stated that the motor size/power is average, in my experience it’s enough for pleasurable rides around town and small to medium hills. There’s always a trade-off when it comes to weight and price, what the Street Legal kit offers is great value and in practice it more than doubles my own pedaling output. The entire kit only adds ~17 lbs to your bike and the removable battery is convenient and easy to work with. This is a winner in my book and it’s easy to see why the kit is a top seller for Dillenger. Big thanks to Dillenger for partnering with me for this review.

Pros:

  • Relatively affordable if you’ve got a pre-existing bike to work with, you get the motor, controller, battery, display and all of the wires needed to get up and running for well under $1k
  • The packaging looked great and seemed very well padded, none of the parts were damaged or missing! Frequently I receive kits or even ebikes with missing screws and damage, Dillenger also offers a solid 1 year comprehensive warranty
  • The kit is indeed street legal in most situations, it maxes out at 20 mph but includes both assist and throttle mode for versatile riding, I like the throttle for use when starting at zero to reduce strain on my knees
  • The front wheel design is super easy to install, way less complex than a rear wheel ebike kit, and the wires are all color coded to make them intuitive to figure out, you also get plenty of zip ties but I was a bit surprised that our kit didn’t have an instruction sheet? We had to go online to figure it out, I also love that the cadence sensor uses a clip-on design so you don’t have to remove the cranks on your bike
  • The display is large, backlit and offers a ton of readouts including speed, odometer, battery level, voltage, watts and access to assist settings, it’s not removable but for what it is, it works well… I love that you get a separate button pad because it makes changing levels easy, you don’t have to take your hand off the grip
  • The battery pack locks to the frame for security but is removable for convenient charging, there’s a built-in LED scale to communicate charge level even when it’s off the bike and a female USB port for charging portable electronics! It’s a solid design and the capacity of nearly 1/2 kilowatt hour is great, I also trust and prefer Samsung cells to generic
  • I love that the kit included brake sensors so you can improve safety (cutting power to the system whenever you brake) and that if you decide to not use them, the system still works
  • Dillenger offers this kit in multiple wheel sizes including 20″, 24″, 26″, 27.5″ and 700c 28″ so you can use it with some trikes, smaller bikes, city bikes and mountain bikes
  • I like that the kit comes with a trigger throttle because it means you don’t have to cut your grip in half, triggers are also easier to use if you ride on bumpy terrain, they don’t compromise your grip at all

Cons:

  • The wheel doesn’t come with a tube or tire so you have to spend extra time swapping it from your original wheel… this means switching back to non-electric takes longer or you have to spend more money to buy an additional tube/tire but it also that there’s less waste and probably keeps the kit cheaper and lighter to ship
  • We weren’t able to figure out how to switch from metric to imperial or enter into the menu and adjust the number of pedal assist levels… we did figure out the backlighting though, just hold the up button
  • We had to file the dropouts on our Trek 7.2 FX bicycle to fit the larger axle that’s setup with the kit (it’s ~9.9 mm wide) we also had to file some of the screw heads because they were scraping the fork… but it worked!
  • You need to be in one of the five levels of pedal assist to use the throttle, I love that it overrides at full power but kind of wish it worked at level zero for throttle-only mode
  • The battery box is fairly large and took up the entire downtube triangle area on our test bike so even though there was a second set of bottle cage bosses we couldn’t use them, it’s just bulkier than some new purpose built ebikes with downtube integrated batteries
  • Front-wheel powered electric bikes don’t usually offer as much traction because your body weight is usually further back over the rear wheel, I also feel that the added weight of the hub motor changes steering a bit and was told by Darlington that he felt speed wobble when trying to ride with no hands (this is when the bars vibrate back and forth with increasing speed)
  • It wasn’t obvious which way to point the wheel… I have installed kits before only to find out that the motor is spinning backwards! I wish there was an arrow on the wheel or more information in the instructions
  • Kits tend to have “one size fits all” extra long cables and that means you end up wrapping them and zip tying them to the bike, be sure to clip the ends of the zip ties close so you don’t get scratched, I used a tool like this, even if you do a GREAT job the bike still looks a bit messier than if the cables were the perfect length or integrated through the frame
  • Activating this kit is a two step process… you have to press a power button on the battery then hold the power button on the control pad as well, it’s not a huge deal and this isolates power on the battery to reduce phantom draw and improve stability but it does add time and not all purpose built ebikes are two-step like this

Resources:

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Dan
5 months ago

I purchased this kit about 2 months ago. Below is my experience with it!

  1. Installation: Installation went relatively smoothly. I had some issues centering the motor / wheel and aligning the brakes, but this is mostly because I'm not an expert at bikes. I was unable to initially install the cadence sensor. I had to purchase a longer crank arm connector piece (not sure what it's called). Apparently they come in multiple sizes, and mine was the shortest version. It was only a matter of millimeters. Once that was installed, the cadence sensor worked as well. (Until then I was able to use the throttle). One minor inconvenience is that many of the wires are quite long. If you're installing on a really long bike or something like that, this is helpful, I suppose. It seems like it'd be helpful to include shorter wires for normal sized bikes so you don't have bundles of extra wires to secure that look a bit messy.
  2. Riding around: The 350W motor is quite powerful. It powers me effortlessly up hills. Usually I pedal along, as that makes the pedal assist work. But I could probably get up hills without pedaling at all, should I really be lazy. I also pull a trailer with two toddlers. I'm not sure how fast I'd be going if I wasn't pedaling, but just pedaling normally / lightly, I'm able to go up hills at 12 - 15 mph while pulling a trailer! It makes transporting the kids a breeze! Yesterday I probably biked about 20 hilly miles, and the battery was still indicating half full. The throttle is super-helpful for starting up at red lights, especially since I tend to leave the bike in higher gears now. Maybe - going up hills, I downshift into a mid level gear. I haven't used granny gear since I got the kit. Overall, this kit is both powerful and has a lot of capacity. I can't see needing anything more powerful - at least on normal streets! It really wouldn't feel safe to go much faster!
  3. Concerns and annoyances: The computer is terrible. To adjust any of the settings requires a lengthy sequence of button pushes that don't seem to lead where they're supposed to. The computer takes up a lot of space on the dash, when all I think I'd really want is what power assist level I'm in (1-5), and my battery life. Things like speed seem to be flat out wrong. And there's a dozen or so other metrics that just aren't necessary or useful. Things like temperature (I'm outside already, I don't need the bike to tell me that I'm hot or cold!), the amount of time the bike has been turned on this trip; the amount of time the bike has been turned on - ever; take up lots of space on the computer and on the dash had have limited value. I had to move my light and bell to make room for the large computer... bummer. It doesn't really seem to effect the operation of the bike, however. It'd be nice if it had a built in light or something, especially since the computer takes the space where lights are mounted.
  4. The motor seems to cut out briefly when going up long hills. Not sure what's happening - if it's overheating, or switching gears, or what? It doesn't seem to be a big deal - it maybe only cuts out for a second or so.... as long as this doesn't become more frequent or for longer intervals, it's not a big deal.
  5. A couple times, the unit has failed to turn on and has indicated that the battery is dead when it has at least half capacity. Eventually, after trying to turn it on a few times, it has worked. Concerning, but as long as it continues to work, not a big problem.

Anyhow, overall, I think this was the right unit for the right price. At $700, it's not the cheapest model out there, but it's a really good option that seems to have a fair bit of power and capacity. And why a lot of the reviews, etc. seem to try to steer you to a mid-drive kit, I really think that the front drive seems to be the simplest and the cadence sensor + throttle is very simple and very effective.

Court Rye
5 months ago

Excellent feedback Dan! Thanks for taking the time to share and help others. I agree with many of your points and also appreciate the simplicity of a front hub motor and hope we see more integrated light options... especially if it was just a headlight since the display is already there and taking up space as you mentioned :)

Dan
5 months ago

One thing - here on your website you have an extra 0 in the prices for this company's bikes. Obviously this is a $700 kit, not a $7000 kit. But if you search by price, it might come up incorrectly.

Court Rye
5 months ago

Wow! Thanks for the catch there Dan, I will update this right away... I do my best with the details but mistakes happen ;)

Drummond
3 months ago

I bought a Dillenger Hunter Hub 2016, in summary, the 'bulletproof' hub motor broke after about 200 miles of gentle use not offroad. Dillenger took 2 months to diagnose the problem, then offered to deliver after a further 2 months or deliver faster for 150gbp. The bike is under warranty only 3 months old. The marketing proudly pronounces this bike is based on their popular and proven tried and tested kit, using exactly the same motor. However Dillenger say they cannot send a motor from the UK (where I'm based) from one of their kits which are in stock. So overall 4 months to send another 'bulletproof' replacement motor or pay alot of money. Sent tens of emails to sort it out, and had to take the bike apart for their diagnosis, in total messing about probably over a week's work.

Court Rye
3 months ago

Ouch, I'm sorry to hear about all the hassle you've gone through Drummond. Thanks for sharing here... and waiting to do so until you tried working with them a bit to find a solution. I hope that your problem is resolved soon and that they are able to avoid this type of situation with other customers in the future :/

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Dewey
2 days ago
Hi Eddy from South Yorkshire, I'm from Leicester, studied in Sheffield for a year before emigrating to the US and enjoyed traveling around the peak district and south Yorkshire. Fun fact, in Pittsburgh at the University 'Cathedral of Learning' they have a series of nationality rooms and in the England room one of the windows displays the Sheffield city crest celebrating links to Pittsburgh's past industrial history as a steel-making town. Anyway on to your questions:

1) How good are E-Bikes at managing steep hills/long stretches of inclined road and do you still have to pedal?
A: I well remember climbing Sheffield's hills. It takes power to pull the weight of you, bike, motor, & battery, up hill. As you pointed out the UK has a 250W/15.5mph continuous power/speed limit. For purposes of making comparisons the formula for working out the peak power of an E-Bike is battery voltage times controller amperage e.g. 24v X 10a = 240W, this would be weak for peak power and definitely not enough to tackle hills as I can attest, my first attempt to convert my bike was with a 250W front hub kit which was alright for getting up to 15mph on the flat but failed miserably to provide meaningful assistance getting up hill so I returned it (buy from a UK shop to facilitate returns). This page on the UK Pedelecs website has more about UK E-Bike regulations and you can search the forum/ask questions about what types of bikes/kits with higher peak power are legal/fall under the "250W continuous rated power" definition.

If you decide to purchase a factory built E-Bike, try this website for suggestions between 1-2,000GBP. Try to find out the weight of the bike and where the battery is mounted makes a big difference to the balance. I first tried a battery on my rear rack but that meant I locked up the back wheel when braking hard, I then tried one mounted to the down-tube in place of the water bottle and the bike is better balanced.

If you decide to go the DIY kit route the front chain ring adapter so you can mount a lower tooth count ring than the kit supplied chain ring - you should be aiming for no more than 10 tooth difference (and preferably fewer) between the front and rear gears for hill climbing comfortably. I own this kit and reckon this would be the minimum you need to tackle hills with pedalling, and for steep stretches you will be standing on the pedals. You can buy a USB adapater and download Bafang software to change the controller settings, this would invalidate your warranty, I uprated my controller to 18a and set a 17mph controller speed limit because it's street legal where I live and the extra power makes a big difference climbing hills - no more standing on pedals. The Bafang kit is rather delicate for the ham-fisted like me, I have destroyed a couple of non-essential cables/wires coming out of the motor through clumsiness, you should either zip-tie everything down before you go for a test-ride, or buy a factory E-Bike that routes cables though the frame.

2) I notice some E-Bikes have what's known as 'Pedal assist' and some also have a throttle in addition - can you explain the difference?
A: There are two types of pedal assist - cadence sensors act as an on-off switch for the motor when they detect you are pedalling - torque sensors detect how much effort you are putting into pedalling and increase power to compensate. Most cheaper E-Bikes & kits use a cadence sensor which is perfectly adequate because you modulate power by changing the PAS level. An E-Bike throttle might be a twist grip similar to what you find on a moped/scooter, or it may be a thumb-push or trigger switch. Some find throttles helpful when starting from stand still because you don't have to pedal to get going.

3) I guess mudguards would come in handy for wet weather trips, would I be able to add them later?
A: Yes, or your tires will throw muddy water onto your trousers and up your back. Hopefully your bike should come with brazed-on eyelets/lugs for screws - look on the inside of the frame near the top and bottom of the stays - otherwise you would need p-clamps to wrap around the stays.

Hope this helps
harryS
10 months ago
[QUOTE=". Look at this bill from Illinois, it starts with criteria based on HR727 (good), and then adds a goofy additional operating restriction of no more than 20mph on any street or road, making them slower to legally operate than regular bikes..[/QUOTE]

Old post, but it's pretty useful as I'm in Illinois. I looked up the statutes and see my e-bike is classified as a low power electric bicycle, so it's not a motor vehicle and thus legal on bike paths. Not legal on sidewalks, and cannot be ridden over 20 mph. Also, I have to be over 16 years old. No speed restrictions otherwise.

Yes, I would like a Bosch drive, but I settled for a BBS02. It's in. No battery yet.
George S.
1 year ago
The BBSHD can be made legal in California. This is what you have to do:

http://www.electriccyclery.com/shop...ke-kits-bionx-electric-motor-kits/bionx-d500/

My advice is to read the whole thing. These guys are being completely honest about the whole thing, even noting that they will NOT offer a 28mph software update outside California. And the motor has to be set up for 750 watts.

Also note the Class 3 is street legal, not legal on bike paths.

They want to do this in Utah. I want to see what happens in Cal...
Bike_On
2 years ago
Mike leroy
Which motor best suits your riding style? Is it possible that a simple switch can convert the same bike from a legal 20mph "bicycle" to a 40+ mph motorcycle? Yes. Four 8Fun BBS02 center-mounted motor are also compared in the same manner.

The conclusion is the most flexible solution is a 27Amp, 72Volt, 1944Watt controller, compatible with two 13 Amp-hour, 37V battery packs. Certainly, a 72V, 27A, 1944W system is fun for off-road use. Switching the 72V series connection between two 37V volt battery packs to a parallel connection would convert the battery packs from a 72V, 13 Amp-hour into a 37V, 26 Amp-hour power supply. A flexible switch allows a fun, powerful off-road to be instantly converted to a CA legal bicycle. The 37V, 1000W controller switch permits access in CA to bicycle paths as "motorized bicycle".

Unfortunately, the 8Fun BBS02 controller is currently limited to 60V. I encourage bicycle manufacturers to develop a flexible 36-72V switchable controller, as displayed in the following diagram. The idea cannot be patented, because by virtue of appearing here, "prior art" has been established.



The following graph illustrates the conceptual relationships. Torque, an indication of hill-climbing power, is presented in Newton-meters(Nm), rather than foot-pounds. The solid color dots chart torque against speed. The dotted circles illustrate the amp to volt ratios.



The dotted line in previous graph represents my idealized watt ratio. Each watt has three parts amps and four parts volts. Amps are correlated with hill-climbing power. Volts loosely relates to speed and acceleration. Think of the ratio as a cup of coffee. How much cream and sugar suits your taste?

In other words, a 36 volt, 9 amp, 350 watt EuroMotor just ain't my cup of tea -- about half my desired amp ratio. My favorite motor in the following graph is the 4200 watt 5403, but unfortunately is too heavy. My ideal choice is a 27 amp, 36 volt BBS02, which is three times EuroMotor amperage.

The 8Fun BBS02 center-mounted motor is contrasted with hub motors in the following picture. The optimal amp-to-volt ratio for the BBS02 is 0.53.

My pedal strategy is to exploit motor power to overcome sub-20mph speeds. I will use a 50 tooth chainring to achieve high, leg-powered speeds over 20mph without motor assistance. I am primarily concerned with accelerating past inattentive car traffic and easing steep hill climbs. My goal is an average 25mph speed in a three mile radius. The most frequent trips are transportation related, e.g., grocery shopping, train connections, etc....


Motor weight, or torque-to-weight ratio, is the reason I chose a center-mounted motor over hub motors. The Crystalyte 5403 weighs 30 kg, or 7.5 times the BBS02, for the same 120Nm torque. The higher weight comes from more powerful, thicker magnets and copper wire in the hub motor. The center-mounted BBS02 relies on gears to run at the most efficient RPM, rather than stronger magnets.

The 5403 also uses the more expensive 72V battery pack to achieve higher power, which costs $1200 more for the 26 amp-hour pack.

In California, 1000 watts is the legal limit for "motorized bicycles". Since the motor is restricted to 1000 watts of electrical power, my goal is to find the motor that generates the greatest torque for 1000 watts. In CA, 1001 to 1500 (2 HP) is a M2 scooter, which is prohibited from bicycle paths.

The constraints I choose to accept are a maximum 54 volts and 27 amps. Therefore, optimizing the bike gearing is crucial for a satisfactory outcome. Configure the largest chainring my legs can tolerate.
  • Conceptually the Gates Carbon Drive front/rear sprockets are like a BMX no-gear bike.
  • The IGH provides gearing. The front/rear on a BMX is approximately 27:9, or 3:1. The Gates 55:19 is closest at 2.8:1 . Use this chart and calculations for the previous PDF doc to customize for your situation.
  • I probably need about a 1.6m display, so a 50:20 (2.5:1) is probably the closest match for my fitness level.


Some of the reasons I chose the following frame are:
  1. Split frame for belt and chain compatibility. Frame weighs only weighs 19 pounds.
  2. The battery tank capacity is enormous, 26 Amp-hours! 52V, 26Ah NMC battery pack only weighs 16 pounds, but costs $1900.
  3. The swingarm suspension for safe driving at 45+ mph downhill coasting speeds in two-lane traffic. My neighborhood also has 15mph speed bumps on hills with 30mph downhill coasting speeds. I will also take dirt paths that cut across residential streets. About ten concrete curbs meet the dirt paths at the street intersections. The ride is jarring. The 40mph downhill, potholed, tree-rooted, backroads are in a state of disrepair. My favorite backroad is one that I take, every chance I get.
  4. Either a mid-drive or rear hub motor up to 6000 Watts can be installed. The bottom bracket is a generic standard, rather than a proprietary brand.
  5. Must weight under 50 pounds to meet Amtrak regulations. Weight without front wheel and battery pack.
  6. In California, 1000 watts is the legal limit for "motorized bicycles". Since the motor is restricted to 1000 watts of electrical power, my goal is to find the motor that generates the greatest torque for 1000 watts. The 750w BBS02 generates 115Nm of torque.
  7. Has a throttle. Controller has adjustable 20mph cut-off. I also want the flexibility to upgrade to 45+ mph rear hub, if the side roads do not work out.
  8. All wires routed internally.
  9. U.S. DOT VIN number to register in CA as legal motorcycle, should I choose that option.
  10. A mail-order and service bike, so components must be the most reliable.
  11. Configure the largest chainring my legs can tolerate. My strategy is to rely on motor to power me through sub 20mph speeds. I will use a 50 tooth chainring to achieve speeds over 20mph without motor power.
    • Conceptually the Gates Carbon Drive front/rear sprockets are like a BMX no-gear bike.
    • The IGH provides gearing. The front/rear on a BMX is approximately 27:9, or 3:1. The Gates 55:19 is closest at 2.8:1 . Use this chart and calculations for the previous PDF doc to customize for your situation.
    • I probably need about a 1.6m display, so a 50:20 (2.5:1) is probably the closest match for my fitness level.
Hey Leroy,

I don't know if you still follow the forum. You had some interesting graphs/plots. I like how you discuss the optimization.

You should check out my performance spreadsheet in the compare section.

Best weight/torque: Optibike motors, New Bionx Dd hub.
FTC Complaint
2 years ago
EULITTLB
Again in fairness FTC given that I estimate 200 or so bikes have been delivered the guys on the Owners Page seem to be doing a good job supporting those that have received bikes - who knows if the guys comms have been received, problems seem few and far between with the actual bike, it is more the people who haven't received bikes, and neither are they going to for months and months at least, that concerns me.

Here is a short list of problems from FB
That would be allot of problems per 200-400 bikes
Some are quite serious as well and could (or over time) cause injury.

This is Storm's responsibility, not end users.

I did however have the forks backwards and almost killed myself on the first corner. that's what I get for being mad with excitement. its going to be a cool commute tomorrow

Dead Charger.

My local bike shop just said no to assemble my bike. "Liability issues".


I'd say you would be lucky to get 10 miles on flat ground. (some users report 16 miles)


I was thinking we are going to have 3 levels of pedal assist? There is only 1 and no way to adjust it?


Anybody has a good idea, how to make sure that the front disk brake is best fitted?, I have tried several times to improve the fit, but the disk still drags a bit…


Owners help! Trying to connect front brake, but the cable is not long enough to extend it. Have a look, any ideas?



Is there a Technical Data Sheet for the Bike? I will need this for legal driving in my country


no lube in the bearing


on initial charging the 4 cells are green on battery but 5th stays red after hours of charging. I did the plug into the battery first then the wall. Thinking maybe the cell will balance with a few discharges and charges?? Or possible bad cell......


BIKE SHOP SAID : NEVER GET IT WET "! they assembled for me.. and don't take curves.. at 20 mph...
tires not design for that !


I have a screw loose smile emoticon One was buried under the battery holder and I couldn't get an allen wrench on it so I had to remove the battery holder and the controller to get access. The screw under the battery holder was loose enough I could remove it without the wrench. The other screws turned about 3 rotations before they were snug. What ever you do don't tighten the screws too tight or you could break the plastic or strip the threads. I added blue loctite to all of them hoping they will stay put. Read the comments, there are some good ideas down below.


- bike with battery 61.6 lbs

Yes!!! I got mine today!!!!....but are there no instructions? Really? Guess this is when we all become friends smile emoticon How do you connect the front brake? And what are the keys for? Please help.


So I assembled the bike today, everything went well, but the battery isn't charging. When I connect the charger to the battery, the LED on the charger doesn't turn on, just stays off. I am thinking the charger is broken, tried a few working outlets and same issue. I tried with battery in off position as the instructions state. Any ideas of what may be happening or where to get a new charger? Is there a warranty on the charger?


Well the pedal was sticking through the side of the box. But it doesn't seem to have been damaged will start putting together process soon


I got mine put together but can't ride it. It's way too tall.


So I went out for a ride to see if I could empty the battery and max some miles. (I personally feel the throttle led's are a garbage indicator). Instead I got dual flats, but was rescued by Car2Go electric vehicles.



So...my bike came. I assembled it. It's beautiful! I'm 5'1" and the bike is HUGE! It's too big for me, I am unable to straddle the frame and the body is so wide with the battery that it's not terribly safe for me to stop if I don't have a curb immediately available. Any suggestions?


I had to remove the spacer washers to make the front brake on mine perfect…


For those of you who have your bikes or who have experienced riding them, how loud are they? Also, does anyone know if these bikes are street legal in New York? I've heard there may be issues.


To those who already received the bikes, what's your max mileage on full charge? I hit 14.5mi today. Still has some juice left. 3.5mi more to go home. If it lasts, my max would be 18mi so far.


Bike powered up but won't go due to brake cutoff

Battery cradle connection overheating.
.

Battery arc when connecting charger to battery. So far every time I've connected the charger to the battery I get a small arc. Battery is out of the bike and switched off and charger input is unplugged. Anyone else experience this?


the factory does not grease the bearings



Went for a 7 mile ride this morning. I rode pedaling and at full throttle most of the way. The battery was 3/4 spent by the time I got here. I weigh as much as two people.


But I still have an issue with the battery popping loose on uneven pavement bumps. It happened twice today riding in downtown San Diego.

Could the cable connectors on the inside part of the battery box be an issue?

For those of you that are wondering, I'm familiar with the intricate workings of a lock, thank you. I have to manhandle the battery down to lock it.


There was also a thread where the battery contacts were not seated properly. Maybe loose battery contacts are preventing the battery from seating properly?


The batter does not get locked in after I inserted it and turned the key to the lock position. I can still remove the battery even after it is "locked". I went ahead and took a ride with it. The battery "died" within two miles. As it turned out, the battery popped out by itself just from the bad road condition.



I clearly need the brakes adjusted


Inexpensive Chinese freewheel cog is starting to click and skip under hard pedaling



So I ran into a little snag today... took the bike to the store -- went into the store -- came out -- started it up -- went a few feet and then the throttle cut out? I checked the battery... still full charge, I checked the throttle switch -- doesn't light up. So anybody experience this yet... also the battery terminal looks a little warped I'll post a pic here soon.


I do have a bit of brake rub from both front and back


f. No cigar. The charge light indicator on the handle bar is always at red.

Last night I left the battery charging by itself, this morning the light indicator on the charger was green. But when I put the battery on the bike it showed as empty.

My bike shop wanted 150 for assembly-- no thanks

Tire inflation problems
Mike leroy
2 years ago
I want to go into motor power more deeply here. I want to explore how motor power contributes to chainring damage. I wonder if volts or amps contribute to chainring wear. Higher volts result in higher RPMs. Greater amperage means more power flowing through the wires surrounding the magnets. You might use the analogy of volts is to acceleration, as amps are to hill climbing torque.

The Bosch system is 36V, 10A, 350W. I wonder if the ratio of 0.36 amp-volt ratio may play a part? A more performant 26A, 54V, 0.5 amp-volt ratio, 1400W BBS02. Perhaps the Bosch motor is too inefficient at some point, i.e., spinning too fast and/or straining due to too few amps?

Personally, I cannot relate to a ten amp system -- just too wimpy. I need at least 25 amps. I also cannot relate to 36 volt systems. I need at least 48 volts. The ideal ratio is probably around 0.75, which runs cool at high torque levels. A 0.75 amp-volt ratio implies a larger magnet and heavier copper windings. So, weight ultimately becomes the decisive factor determining the amp-volt ratio. One thing is for damn sure -- 36V, 10A EuroMotors fall far short of the mark. The EuroBikes are designed for EuroLaw 15mph top-speed. I need USA 20mph top-speed in hilly areas.

A 0.8 amp-volt ratio at the extreme end. "Cromotor at up to 100V X 80A for a brutal 8,000W. On frames this light, you would be shocked at how easily it can out-accelerate some VERY expensive and exotic sports cars at that power level."

In the first post, I touched upon how the upcoming Samarium-Cobolt 26A, 52V, 1400 watt motor with powerful magnets. In CA, 1000 to 1500 (2 HP) is a M2 scooter, which is prohibited from bicycle paths.

A basic battery pack decision is 52V for mid-drive or a 72V battery pack and controller for rear hub motor. I opt for 52V to minimize motor weight. My main goal is sub 20mph speeds, rather than 30+ mph top-speeds. The 72V controller has a minimum cut-off around 60V.

I will overbuy on motor amps to experiment with different Watt settings, provided the controller permits the amp level to be set from the Cycle Analyst display. I will buy a motor between 25 and 50 amps, depending upon cost and minimum voltage required by the controller.

In the unlikely case that a rear hub actually becomes the motor of choice, 3600W, 72V X 50A. The Crown, also from Crystalyte. It uses a 40mm wide stator, which is bigger than the H35, and less than the 50mm stator on the Cromotor. The Crown also has deeper stator slots, so it can hold more copper mass in the windings.

The H40-Series base on the H35 series but the stator and magnet + 5mm width. In order to increase the motor power and torque.

From https://www.electricbike.com/12-kit-power-levels-360w-to-8000w/
"
1200W, 48V X 25A 0.5 amp-volt ratio. Large diameter rear Direct-Drive hub…9-Continents (9C)/E-Bikekit.com/ebay:Yescomusa/Magic Pie/MXUS - the large diameter (which helps the leverage of the magnets to produce more torque-per-watt).

These often come with a 20A max controller, but there is a significant increase in acceleration when going to 25A, and also at 30A. Somewhere between 30A and 40A, they will be in danger of overheating, depending on how much time they spend at the max amps.

As to copper mass, these typically have a 28mm wide stator. But…if you ride up a hill that is long enough and steep enough…even just 30A will fry it… Any amperage above it’s saturation point will make a lot of waste heat, which is inefficient.

1200w, 48V X 25A, 0.5 amp-volt ratio. Rear geared Hubmotor…10T MAC

The MACs stator is 25% wider than the BPMs, so the extra magnet width provides about 25% more power per watt that’s applied. The extra 25% of copper mass also allows more amps to be used, so I am recommending a 25A limit when you only have mild hills.

Once you move the battery weight to the center of the frame, the bike will have a much better balance and feel when riding. A 10T MAC using 48V will provide about a 28-MPH top speed on flat land (45-kph) when using 26-inch wheels, and it climbs mild hills very well.

Like the DD hub listed above, you can get snappier acceleration when upgrading from 25A to 30A, but you have to watch the heat! Geared hubs have a poor heat-shedding path, so if you think you may want to hot rod the motor later with 40A or 72V…get the DD hub.

1200W, 48V X 25A, 0.5 amp-volt ratio. Small mid drive…Bafang BBS02 the motor stays up in it’s best RPM range to keep it from getting too hot, unlike a one-speed hub motor.

1,500W-2,800W, Mid-sized Off-Road Mid drive…LightningRods kit

This motor has performed well at 30A, and it sheds heat well, since it is an inrunner. At 48V X 30A = 1,440W, 0.62 amp-volt ratio. it’s performance is outstanding! But...it gets better than that. The low pole-count means this motor can be run at very high RPMs without excessive waste-heat produced from eddy-current losses. This means that it was tried and successfully verified to run well at 72V (and also 100V!). 72V X 40A, 0.55 amp-volt ratio. an awesome 2,800w!

Of course, if you are running at 100V (and 100V X 30A, 0.33 amp-volt ratio, 3,000W), the motor is spinning fast enough that you will not be able to pedal along with the bike to help. If you want to run more than 3,000W, you will have to sacrifice letting the motor use the bikes gears, which is the biggest benefit of a mid-drive. 4,000W will break bicycle chains and sprockets (or at the very least, wear them out unusually fast).

2520W, 72V X 35A, 0.5 amp-volt ratio, Rear Direct-Drive hub…Crystalyte H35XX (available as an H3525 or H3540)

If you have sampled 35A in a rear hub…and you like it…you really need more copper mass than the common 28mm wide stators in the 9C sized DD hubs. The Crystalyte H35-series has a 35mm wide stator (25% more copper).

they didn’t want any more weight out at the rear wheel than necessary, so…they used higher volts in the smallest hub that would satisfy their needs. For the performance of 72V and 35A minimum, the Crystalyte H35 is the most affordable and lightest hub that can reliably provide that.

If you want to spend a lot of time riding faster than 30-MPH, I recommend a DD hub instead of a geared hub.

2880W, 72V X 40A, 0.55 amp-volt ratio, Crystalyte H40XX (available as an H4040, H4065, H4080)

This motor has an almost identical construction as the HT35XX listed above, but it has a wider 40mm stator, and the extra copper mass will let it use more amps than the HT35XX (under the same conditions), or…it will run cooler at the same amps.

3600W, 72V X 50A, 0.7 amp-volt ratio, Rear Direct-Drive hub…The Crown

In this power category, you could use “The Crown” motor, also from Crystalyte. It uses a 40mm wide stator, which is bigger than the H35 listed above, and less than the 50mm stator on the Cromotor listed below.

The Crystalyte 4080 also uses a 40mm wide stator, but there are differences between these two motors though…the 4080 has a less expensive steel stamped core, and it also is narrow enough to allow you to squeeze in a 5-speed freewheel (not that you’ll be pedaling much with 2880W), and it uses common spokes.

The Crown is more expensive than the 4080. It uses a deeper stator slots, so it can hold more copper mass in the windings.

4300W-8000W, 72V X 60A–100V X 80A, 0.8 amp-volt ratio, Rear Direct-Drive hub…Cromotor

fitting enough battery mass on a bike frame to supply 72V-100V and also 60A-80A.

The popular choice by a longshot is the built a street commuter using a robust downhill (DH) bicycle frame, but he had to order some custom rear drop-outs to accept the Cromotors 145/155mm wide axle shoulder.

The Phasor has the slimmest frame at 100mm wide (for easier pedaling) but…if you want the absolute highest battery volume, the 160mm wide Raptor is the one. The Greyborgs 110mm wide frame is in the middle…slim enough for easy pedaling, but more battery volume for higher volts and amps.

72V X 60A is 4300W, which is the minimum watts that make the cost of a Cromotor system worthwhile, but…all of these frames have also been successfully run with a Cromotor at up to 100V X 80A for a brutal 8,000W. On frames this light, you would be shocked at how easily it can out-accelerate some VERY expensive and exotic sports cars at that power level.

The Cro has the very thick aluminum stator core to absorb the temporary extra heat of large amp-spikes.

"
Mike leroy
2 years ago
I choose the gears is a fundamental leap of faith. I am very reluctant to apply motor power to a bicycle wheel with sprockets.


To my mind, gears, rather than sprockets, are the safer and more appropriate mechanism to transmit motor power to a bicycle wheel. Gears are enclosed in an internal oil bath. Oil reduces metal-to-metal wear and operating temperatures. Sprockets are exposed to the environment and contaminants like dirt, water and mud.

The hills in my neighborhood are 10-20% grade, or about as steep as roads are built without switchbacks. On steep hills, extreme pressure is applied to chain. The risk of chain-suck is vastly increased in my situation. A chain is unsafe for my purposes. The decision for or against a Gates Carbon Belt is a foregone conclusion.


What type of bicycles support Gates Carbon Belt Drive? A triangular frame must be opened to install a belt. Almost all bicycles are incompatible with belts. Unless your triangular framed bike was sold with a belt, it almost certainly lacks a splittable joint. Swingarm suspensions bikes are open by design, so swingarms are naturally belt compatible.

Splittable frames must also be snubber must be installed. A Snubber prevents the belt from ratcheting over sprocket teeth when belt tension is lost. Subsequently this small component greatly reduces the accident risk level.

Some of the reasons I chose the following frame are:
  1. Split frame for belt compatibility. Only weighs 19 pounds.
  2. The battery tank capacity is enormous, 26 Amp-hours! 52V, 26Ah NMC batteries only weigh 24 pounds.
  3. The swingarm suspension for safe driving at 45+ mph downhill coasting speeds. My neighborhood also has 15mph speed bumps on hills with 30mph downhill coasting speeds. I will also take dirt paths that cut across residential streets. About ten concrete curbs meet the dirt paths at the street intersections. The ride is jarring. The 40mph downhill, potholed, tree-rooted, backroads.
  4. Either a mid-drive or rear hub motor up to 6000 Watts can be installed. The bottom bracket is a generic standard, rather than a proprietary brand. My current choice is a 20 amp, 1000 watt mid-drive, that has not yet reached production.
  5. Must weight under 50 pounds to meet Amtrak regulations. Weight without front wheel and battery pack.
  6. The upcoming Samarium-Cobolt 20amp, 52V, 1000 watt motor with powerful magnets.
  7. Has a throttle. 20mph cut-off. I also want the flexibility to upgrade to 45+ mph rear hub, if the side roads do not work out.
  8. All wires routed internally.
  9. U.S. DOT VIN number to register in CA as legal motorcycle, should I choose that option.
  10. A mail-order and service bike, so components must be the most reliable.
  11. largest chainring my legs can tolerate. Rely on motor to power me through low speeds with over-sized chainring. Speeds over 20mph only from leg power.
    • Schlumpf mountain drive probably unnecessary.
    • Conceptually the front/rear sprockets are like a BMX. The IGH provides gearing. The front/rear on a BMX is approximately 27:9, or 3:1. The Gates 55:19 is closest at 2.8:1 . Use this chart and calculations for the previous PDF doc to customize for your situation. I probably need about a 1.6m display, so a 50:20 (2.5:1) is probably the closest match for my fitness level.



http://fat-bike.com/2013/09/about-the-rohloff-and-gates-carbon-belt-drivetrain/

"Doing it right is important because these are not cheap parts. This set up will cost you double or more the price of a conventional drivetrain, so you don’t want to damage anything. This cost is another bug bear of the detractors, but I take a long term view. Rohloff hub maintenance requires the oil to be changed every 5000km, and … that’s all. There are Rohloffs out there with 100 000km on them. Gates belts, as best I can ascertain from the Net, if looked after, can last 10 -20 000km, and never need greasing. So a $60 chain lasts me 1000km, a $90 belt lasts ten times as long, and the hub will outlast many many clusters; that doesn’t seem expensive to me, especially taking into account the ongoing lack of maintenance. Double the cost, twenty times the endurance, on paper, this seems like a great system. It just has to work. Does it?"


To discuss related topics of a personal nature, please join the conversation.
Mike leroy
2 years ago
opimax
A bike w/that power is too much to be considered a bike as stated so it isnt a bike. since it isnt a bike it cant go on bike paths and since it isnt a bike it cannot go on street either.It is a motorcycle that does not meet DOT standards so again it cant go on a street and since it is a motor cycle it cannot go on bike trails. This is the manufacture's way of selling it and not be liable when you do either of these things
Thanks.

What are DOT requirements? I want to register a legal "eMotorBike". I found one obscure DOT requirement in Court's video. Please see the video post below

http://electricbikereview.com/commu...-electric-bike-actually-mean.1761/#post-19413
George S.
2 years ago
It would be interesting to see any existing track that might work. If you said it had to be 'street legal' power, that would put it around 750 watts. The 9 turn track at Willow would probably force you to go a lot faster, so higher than that wattage. If you built a track with 20 mph turns, or lower, you could keep the speeds lower and keep the power closer to 'stock'. I was thinking of a finesse race, nothing like a pure road race or 'tour' race. I think there will be an electric motorcycle racing setup, fairly soon.

You need someone who manufactures ebikes to show an interest, see if they want to showcase the capabilities of their products. It would definitely be in their interest to get more young people in the sport. There might be an existing bike path somewhere that is challenging enough to run a race down it, even in laps. Do something like that to put the idea out there.

You can't really sell ebikes, over the long haul, with the older demographic. If you could rent performance ebikes at a challenging layout, so it became a little more exciting, it couldn't hurt. There's got to be some sort of sport you could build around ebikes. It's almost like ebikes aren't supposed to be exciting. The whole idea should be to shift it over to something young people would find interesting, to build some momentum for ebikes.
Mike leroy
2 years ago
Racingkyle
I know you will hate to hear this, but the stealth fighter sounds like a good bike for you. It climbs hills like a charm, it can go 20 miles and around 35 miles per hour. it has 2 internal gears. one for pedaling without power and one for pedaling with power, it has a regen button for the hills. But if that isn't your slice of toast, than I think the grace one or the grace one.15 holds its place up at the top! The grace one is a gearless hub motor, so I wouldn't imagine why you would change gears on a hill unless you wanted to pedal. I like optibike, but you need to constantly work the gears up and down to get the most out of that motor. for cheaper, you can get a stealth that is solid as a rock and faster. If I were ever caught in a trail and in a hurry to get home before dark, the stealth would be my greatest companion. also, it comes to California street legal. they limit it to 20 mph at 750 watts. There is a code you can type in to have access to the full power. if you have a motorcycle license i would imagine you could put a license plate on the back, and run it at full power. The grace is s better choose if you are going to want a more bike-looking electric bike, that has a beautiful pinion transmission and belt drive. not to mention how awesome that horn is. it's actually really loud in the reviews of it. I just find the headlight box a little ugly up front.
I guess you have to try both. What battery chemistry does the Stealth Fighter use?
Racingkyle
2 years ago
Mike leroy
74 pounds is my argument against the Grace One Pro. Sixty pounds is still heavy. Grace need time to drop the weight of the battery and motor.

Due to weight and wind resistence, 1,000 watts is upper limit for an eBike today. Unfortunately, I am looking for a bike to replace my car. I need a 2,000 watt eBike that weighs about 60 pounds. A 1 kW bike can perform well at 25mph. I am actually targeting 20 miles per day at 35mph.
I know you will hate to hear this, but the stealth fighter sounds like a good bike for you. It climbs hills like a charm, it can go 20 miles and around 35 miles per hour. it has 2 internal gears. one for pedaling without power and one for pedaling with power, it has a regen button for the hills. But if that isn't your slice of toast, than I think the grace one or the grace one.15 holds its place up at the top! The grace one is a gearless hub motor, so I wouldn't imagine why you would change gears on a hill unless you wanted to pedal. I like optibike, but you need to constantly work the gears up and down to get the most out of that motor. for cheaper, you can get a stealth that is solid as a rock and faster. If I were ever caught in a trail and in a hurry to get home before dark, the stealth would be my greatest companion. also, it comes to California street legal. they limit it to 20 mph at 750 watts. There is a code you can type in to have access to the full power. if you have a motorcycle license i would imagine you could put a license plate on the back, and run it at full power. The grace is s better choose if you are going to want a more bike-looking electric bike, that has a beautiful pinion transmission and belt drive. not to mention how awesome that horn is. it's actually really loud in the reviews of it. I just find the headlight box a little ugly up front.
Racingkyle
2 years ago
Mike leroy
The reputation and quality of Haibike and Focus are both excellent. You cannot distinguish between the two bikes based on their brand names. At this level, both brands are safe for you. You need to compare specific bikes. You should also add Grace to your Brand list, but not any better than the others,

You are putting the cart before the horse. you have to decide on the the bike Class first. No easy short cuts for a good decision. Sounds like that is what got you in trouble with the cheap scooter. Sounds like you already have a scooter license, i.,e., CA M2 license?

I live CA and know the law. You can only use the bike lanes with a Class 1 bike. Or, Do you want to register the bike with DMV? If so, does a scooter M2 or a motorcycle M1 license matter?

Grace One video is an example of an eBike built to US DOT legal standards. Grace One is a "moped" in CA. Between 1000- 1500 watts and 20- 30mph power cut-off. Sounds like Grace One would work for you, except the hills might be too steep. 50Nm is borderline torque.

The trick to bending the law is to use software to set the output power limit. I do not know if this would hold up in court, if you got into an accident. You could buy a Cycle Analyst that allows you to set the output watts. For example, I want to ride the fire road in my park. The watts can be under 1001 watts from the software. However, to get up the hill at 35mph, the software resets the output watts above 2kW. I still need a license and insurance for the road, despite the software override.

Is 74 pounds too heavy for you to lift or push?. If I take the bike into my park fire road, then I must push it. Walk-assist mode is essential.

Must you have a rear suspension, or does a hardtail work? I think a rear suspension is a good idea for road safety. How will you deal with potholes and speed bumps without rear suspensions?

Is your hill exactly 12% ? This makes a big difference. My hills are 10, 12 and 18% grades exactly. I run up the hills, so I know precisely. If you do not know, send me the steep hill street address start and end points by a private conversation. I will tell you the exact grade %..

I need the Grace One.15, not the Grace One, because my main hill is 18%. Also, I plan to carry 40 pounds of food from the store. So, the "moped" legal classification does not help me. My eBike is classified as a "motorcycle" and a CA M1 license.

The Pinion P1.9 XR has an overall range of 568 % spread over nine gears (the SRAM XX1 has 420% in comparisson). I need this type of gear ratio for 18% grade. I also want the protection from small stones hitting the gears at 35mph and ruining the gears or my life. Rear gear cassettes are exposed.

Will you carry extra weight on a rack?

Also, I want to do 40mph up the 10% grade to compete with cars. I need a "M1 motorcycle" license.

The advantage of registering an eBike with DMV is you have full legal rights to the road, like a scooter or motorcycle. Driving in the car lane is safer than riding in the bike lane because drivers see you in the rear view mirror.

If you know you would rather drive in a car lane, then start at 1500 watts, because you will need the power. I doubt you need much more than 2kW. You need to use the EBR "Ride" site for this type of search. That is why you are finding so few results when you filter on advanced search. The other site is :

http://electricridereview.com

In the reviews, look for
  • Electric Bike Class : Moped or Motorcycle (Class 4) - Learn More about Ebike Classes
I do not own a M1 license, and I am not planning on owning one. If you rode the grace one here at a reasonable speed in the bike lane, nobody would care. Same with the stealth fighter, nobody would notice or mind as long as you are being reasonable. I lift weights at the gym every other day, so these bikes seem rather lightweight to me. I also emailed Stromer, and they claimed it could go about 15mph up a 15% grade. They said it can go about 24mph up an 8% grade. I looked at the grace one a while ago, but it doesn't seem to be very fast. What is the top speed on it? I will be carrying all my groceries in a soccer backpack. Rear suspension is nice, but I'd rather have a bike that works well. suspension is second priority.
Dale Wildey
2 weeks ago

Nice kit, looks very straight forward to install. Sometimes a bit of fabricating would be necessary as all bikes are made from different parts. Most Joes or Joanne's should be able to get it working. Good video thanks

cold productions
3 months ago

He paints his nails ?

Andrew Wong
4 months ago

Hello!  I am looking at getting this kit for my mountain bike for commuting.  I was just wondering how is this kit working out for Mr. Darlington after 2 months?  Thanks!

George26
4 months ago

great stuff ... do you think you could manage it to road bike or to cyclocross? Btw why did dude with glasses frame without glasses ....

tastemysaucer
5 months ago

Don't file off anything on the fork for the love of God

TPHVICTIMS
5 months ago

Tell me I didn't see you running with scissors.

brian43ny
5 months ago

Bought this kit after watching this review and I am enjoying the kit. Only issue is the e brake cut off, magnets won't mount. Bike works good without.

Zombie Huyga
5 months ago

I need an e-bike kit like yesterday for today and tomorrow!

eugene Morrill
6 months ago

We watch these videos to learn how you built your bike. Not how to open the box and check the parts. Why the hell do so many of you people making videos include so much disinformatrion?

Ninja EX
6 months ago

17:25 How do you charge led lights?? -_-

Ninja EX
6 months ago

Guys if your like these guys and have little to no mechanical skills just take it to a bike shop. No offense guys just don't want anyone to get hurt from poor Assembly. The front forks should have been resized and spacers added.

Lord Barbos
5 months ago

Ninja EX .

TheUofAfan
6 months ago

What E bike would you recommend for someone who wants more electric power only and likely to use pedal assist very little?

TheUofAfan
6 months ago

This guy knows his e bikes!

Златко Златев
6 months ago

TO ENTER IN SETTING MENU HOLD up AND down  RIGHT AFTER POWER  IT ON.

Златко Златев
6 months ago

TO ENTER IN SETTING MENU HOLD up AND down  RIGHT AFTER POWER  IT ON.

supernova1976
6 months ago

good job guys

Juan Noval
6 months ago

Nice review. The kit seems like a good option, especially since I have the same Trek bike as Darlington. Btw, any follow up video on the few issues you guys encountered, i.e. motor inhibitors, cadence ring, etc? Also, how's Darlington enjoying this kit on his Trek? Thx. 😀

Juan Noval
6 months ago

Thanks for the reply. Very helpful. Please let us know how it all works out.

Darlington Wleh
6 months ago

I haven't had any issues with the cadence ring. Haven't had to adjust it since the initial adjustment. I commute about 2 to 5 miles most days and take the bike up and down two flights of stairs once to twice a day. Not too long ago, the middle console wigged out, keeps saying the battery is empty when has it's just been charged and the readout on the battery shows it as full. Working with Dillinger to have it replaced. They've been very eager to help.

MrAstroquack
6 months ago

Thanks for the review. I have watched several of your reviews and enjoy your thoroughness. I'm on the brink of bringing electricity to an old mountain bike and this kit may be the one.

murf69
6 months ago

His name couldn't be anything other than Darlington lol

ForbinColossus
6 months ago

This kit makes me wonder about the long delayed Copenhagen Wheel!
Hard to believe the copenhagen hasnt been sorted out yet as more and
more e-bike companies appear out of nowhere with product after
product...Thanks for the review format - very helpful to followup with a real world installation.