Téo S Limited Review

Teo S Limited Electric Bike Review
Teo S Limited
Teo S Limited Fat Bike Specific Hub Motor 500 Watts Derailleur Guard
Teo S Limited 48 Volt 17 Ah Downtube Battery Pack
Teo S Limited Intelligent Lcd Displayp Panel And Twist Throttle
Teo S Limited Mozo Spring Suspension Fork With Lockout
Teo S Limited Stitched Ergonomic Grips Compass Bell
Teo S Limited 9 Speed Shimano Alivio Drivetrain
Teo S Limited Alloy Fat Bike Rack With Independent Led Light
Teo S Limited Rear Mounted Kickstand Tektro Hydraulic Disc Brake Rotor
Teo S Limited Standard 2 Amp Ebike Battery Charger And Multi Tool
Teo S Limited Electric Bike Review
Teo S Limited
Teo S Limited Fat Bike Specific Hub Motor 500 Watts Derailleur Guard
Teo S Limited 48 Volt 17 Ah Downtube Battery Pack
Teo S Limited Intelligent Lcd Displayp Panel And Twist Throttle
Teo S Limited Mozo Spring Suspension Fork With Lockout
Teo S Limited Stitched Ergonomic Grips Compass Bell
Teo S Limited 9 Speed Shimano Alivio Drivetrain
Teo S Limited Alloy Fat Bike Rack With Independent Led Light
Teo S Limited Rear Mounted Kickstand Tektro Hydraulic Disc Brake Rotor
Teo S Limited Standard 2 Amp Ebike Battery Charger And Multi Tool

Summary

  • A powerful, feature-rich fat electric bike available in two frame sizes and three colors, suspension fork and seat post really smooth out the ride
  • Extra-large 48 volt, 17 amp hour battery provides the energy necessary to use throttle mode or the highest level of assist without as much range anxiety
  • Lots of attention to detail, the derailleur guard, rear-mounted kickstand, adjustable angle stem, and hydraulic disc brakes really set it apart
  • Good value but all of those accessories add weight, only sold online so you can't test the sizes easily and have to assemble it yourself, limited stock, cannot throttle from zero or without pedaling first

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Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

Téo

Model:

S Limited

Price:

$1,749 ($199 Shipping)

Body Position:

Forward, Upright

Suggested Use:

Urban, Sand and Snow

Electric Bike Class:

Throttle on Demand (Class 2)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

1 Year Comprehensive (Original Owner)

Availability:

Canada, United States

Model Year:

2017

Bicycle Details

Total Weight:

72.5 lbs (32.88 kg)

Battery Weight:

9.2 lbs (4.17 kg)

Frame Material:

Aluminum Alloy

Frame Sizes:

16 in (40.64 cm)18 in (45.72 cm)

Geometry Measurements:

Large 18” Measurements: 18” Seat Tube, 23.75” Reach, 29.5” Stand Over Height, 27” Width, 79.5” Length

Frame Types:

High-Step

Frame Colors:

Gloss Red, Gloss White, Black

Frame Fork Details:

MoZo Spring Suspension, 120 mm Travel, Preload Adjust, Compression Clicker with Lockout, 135 mm Hub, 9 mm Skewer with Quick Release

Frame Rear Details:

170 mm Hub, 10 mm Axle with Nuts

Attachment Points:

Rear Rack Bosses, Fender Bosses

Gearing Details:

9 Speed 1x9 Shimano Alivio Derailleur, Shimano HG 11-34T Cassette

Shifter Details:

Shimano Alivio Mega Lite Two-Way Trigger Shifters on Right

Cranks:

Prowheel Solid, Forged Alloy, 175 mm Length, 46T Chainring with Alloy Guide

Pedals:

Wellgo Aluminum Alloy Platform

Headset:

Neco, Tapered 1-1/8" to 1-1/2", Threadless, Internal Cups

Stem:

Zoom, Adjustable Angle 0° to 60°, 60 mm Length, 31.8 mm Clamp Diameter

Handlebar:

Zoom, Low-Rise, 680 mm Length

Brake Details:

Tektro Auriga E-Comp Hydraulic Disc with 160 mm Rotors, Tektro Auriga E-Comp Levers with Motor Inhibitors and Adjustable Reach

Grips:

Padded, Stitched, Faux Leather, Black

Saddle:

Velo Plush with Integrated Handle

Seat Post:

Promax, Alloy, Basic Suspension with 40 mm Travel

Seat Post Length:

340 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

27.2 mm

Rims:

Samson Champion, 6061 T6 Aluminum Alloy, Double Wall, Punched Out, 36 Hole

Spokes:

Stainless Steel, 12G Rear, 13G Front, Black with Adjustable Nipples

Tire Brand:

Kenda Juggernaut, 26" x 4" (98 x 559)

Wheel Sizes:

26 in (66.04cm)

Tire Details:

5 to 30 PSI, Wire Bead, 30 TPI Casing

Tube Details:

Schrader Valve

Accessories:

Steel Fenders (100 mm Width), Aluminum Alloy Rack with Spring Latch and Pannier Clip, Integrated Spanninga Kendo Headlight, Independent Spanninga Lineo Backlight (2 AA Batteries) and Independent Blaze-Lite RL1800, Floating Ball Compass and Bell Combo Accessory, Multi-Tool For Assembly

Other:

Locking Removable Downtube Mounted Battery Pack, 1.6 lb 2 Amp Charger, Steel Derailleur Guard, 275 lb Max Load, Full Sized USB Charging Port on Top Right Side of Battery Pack, KMC X9 EPT Rust Resistant Chain

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

Bafang G06 Series

Motor Type:

Rear-Mounted Geared Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

500 watts

Motor Peak Output:

750 watts

Motor Torque:

80 Newton meters

Battery Brand:

Panasonic

Battery Voltage:

48 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

17.4 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

835.2 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

6.5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

30 miles (48 km)

Estimated Max Range:

60 miles (97 km)

Display Type:

Intelligent Branded, Fixed, Backlight, Greyscale, LCD Console (Hold Up for Lights, Hold Down for Walk Mode, Tap Power Twice for Settings)

Readouts:

Speed, Avg Speed, Max Speed, Battery Level (5 Bars), Assist Level (0-9), Trip, Odometer, Timer

Display Accessories:

Independent Button Pad on Left (Up, Down, Power)

Drive Mode:

Cadence Sensing Pedal Assist, Twist Throttle (12 Magnet Cadence Disc, Throttle Activates When Pedaling)

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph)

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Written Review

The electric fat bike space has really blossomed since 2015 when they seemed like a novelty to me. Products like the RadRover, Voltbike Yukon, and ultra-affordable Sondors Fat Bike have transformed a niche product, meant to address soft terrain like sand and snow, into an everyday experience. And they make a lot of sense, fat tires comfortable and capable for use on varied terrain but they aren’t as efficient or lightweight as traditional or even plus-sized tires. They require more effort to move… and that’s where electric assist and throttle power come in. The Téo S and more expensive S Limited shown here offer both drive modes. It’s a product that seeks to address comfort, strength, style, utility, and range in a way that the other value products do not. And in my opinion, it’s still a good value. The original owner gets a one year comprehensive warranty but will have to unbox and assemble the bike. It’s the same situation for the competing products mentioned above. However, not all of those products offer a 9-speed drivetrain with upgraded Shimano groupset, hydraulic disc brakes, integrated lights, or custom fenders and rack. And it goes beyond the obvious, you get a tapered head tube for improved strength, an adjustable angle stem and ergonomic grips for improved comfort, and a derailleur guard and alloy chain guide to protect the drivetrain and keep the chain on track. And this is a niche electric bike that manages to come in two frame sizes and three colorways. It’s doing a lot right in my opinion, but of course it’s not perfect. Weighing it at over 70 lbs (with the rack and steel fenders) it’s one of the heaviest e-bikes I have tested in recent years, and those steel fenders can rust if scratched and rattle a bit on rough terrain. The display panel is pretty standard, easy to use and read on the go, but it offers nine levels of assist which can become tedious. And the twist throttle, while able to override pedal assist at full power, requires a moment of cadence activation before it goes live… that means you have to pedal for a half-a-turn before you can use it! To me, that’s a bummer because I’d like to rely on the throttle to start the bike and save my knees, or in a pinch while riding off-road. The founder of the company is enthusiastic and responsive, their website is great, and the customers seem to be delighted. There’s a lot to celebrate with this one but we’re talking about a smaller company with seemingly limited inventory. You may face shipping delays, as Patrick did, because smaller companies usually don’t order as much inventory from manufacturers in Asia and thus, are de-prioritized. What I see here is a lot of creativity, attention to detail, and initiative that has produced an attractive and enjoyable end product.

Driving the Teo S and Teo S Limited is a 500 watt internally geared hub motor that peaks out around 750 watts and is said to produce up to 80 Newton meters of torque. In practice, it is very zippy and satisfying, but does produce some whirring noise. The hub motor casing is extra wide to accommodate the wide rims and heavy tires found on fat bikes. It’s painted black in this case and blends in perfectly with the extra-thick black spokes and punched out, double-wall, black rims. I love that Téo went the extra mile to match their tire liners to the frame color (red in this case). Internally geared hub motors balance increased torque and power against smaller form factor and this one nearly hides between the nine-speed cassette and 160 mm disc brake rotor… nearly. The disc brakes are a point of celebration and question for me because they have motor inhibitors built in to give you maximum control over the drive system, and are hydraulic vs. mechanical which tends to be easier to operate and more adjustable, but the rotors seem a bit small considering how large and heavy the bikes are. I’m used to seeing 180 mm or even 200 mm rotors on a lot of electric mountain bikes that weigh 46 or 50 lbs and this thing is 72 lbs. With a top assisted speed of 20 mph and the hardtail layout, perhaps you don’t have to worry about overheating or limited mechanical advantage here, the setup is more geared towards neighborhood rides and a bit of trails than true cross country or all mountain. Riding through the snow to town or across a forest path should be no problem. Patrick told me that he weighs ~320 lbs and the brakes have been fine, he had not owned it long enough to ride in the snow (I visited Vancouver Island to review this bike with him in the summer months). His tires were inflated at a higher PSI to be efficient and I found that the bike felt a little stiff and had more banging during my forest ride… but I only weigh 135 lbs so that’s part of it.

The powerful motor is a big focal point and needs to be capable for such a large off-road type of electric bicycle but the battery is just as important. The Téo S Limited is packing an impressive pack here with 48 volts and 17.4 amp hours for nearly a kilowatt hour capacity. This 9.2 lb pack is part of the reason the bike itself weighs so much, but I appreciate where and how it is mounted to the frame. The weight is kept low and center to improve handling and balance, it’s even sunk into the downtube vs. bolted on top. It feels secure, blends in (especially on the black frame), and can be charged on or off the frame for convenience. I would definitely remove the battery when transporting the bike or doing maintenance on the wheels, tires, or drivetrain… I might even remove the fenders and rear rack depending on the situation. The battery has a sleek latch built into the top left side that doubles a handle when carrying it around. The charging port is located near the lower left, which is a bit vulnerable if the left crank arm passes by or you trip on the power cord. And there’s a 5 Volt full-sized USB port near the top right edge of the pack so you can tap into all of that juice to use your smartphone for GPS or power additional lights. I love how the Téo bikes come with an integrated headlight but wish the rear light was also integrated vs. running off of two AA batteries. That said, both lights are pretty nice in terms of quality and the rear light should remain visible even if you load up the rack. I noticed that Patrick’s bike had an additional Blaze-Lite rear light on the seat post that you could clip onto a backpack or helmet if it got blocked by a trunk bag. They probably carried this light over from the standard Téo S model. And while we’re on the topic of accessories, I like that they threw in a floating compass bell and upgraded Wellgo platform pedals! These things work great for people with larger feet or if the soles of your shoes are wet. They are stiff, the look great, and they tend to hold up better against rocks and tips than cage style pedals.

Operating the Téo S Limited is fairly similar to other mid-level ebikes. It has a good sized LCD display that’s controlled by an independent button pad mounted near the left grip. You hold the rubberized center button to turn it on and then tap that button several times to cycle through menus. Above and below the rubber power/select button are up and down arrow keys covered with plastic. These keys are satisfying to click but can get pulled up and broken more easily than rubber buttons in my experience. I have only seen this once in person, and it resulted from fabric getting snagged at the base of the button and then pulling up. I love that you can hold up to turn on backlighting for the display (and activate the headlight) and that you can hold down to activate a slow “walk mode” because that’s handy for pushing up ramps, difficult technical sections of trail, and even stairs. It surprised me that there were nine levels of assist pre-programmed into the display, and you might be able to change this by exploring the settings menu (quickly tap the power key twice to enter this menu). With nine gears and nine levels of assist, there are many ways to enjoy this bike… but to me it’s almost like too many. I’d rather have an always-active throttle and just five levels of assist to really feel in control, in the way that’s important to me on trails and at stops. As it stands, you’ll probably want to shift down to lower gears when slowing down or stopping because it can be slow and difficult to start up again in a high gear. If the throttle was live, this would be less of an issue. At least the cadence sensor used here is a higher resolution 12 magnet design vs. the cheaper 6 magnet products I’ve seen from some other companies. And back to those brake levers, they allow you to tell the motor to stop almost instantly at any time. I can see how an off-road bike with a twist throttle might want to err on the safe side. If you accidentally grab too hard onto the handlebar in a tense moment, it could result in accidental throttle activation. And I think this is why some other fat bikes use a trigger throttle instead. I actually like twist throttles, and there are still other products that leave them “hot” at all times despite the twist risk described here.

The Teo S Limited is an electric bike that swings for the bleachers in terms of accessories, design, and fit. You can really see how the founder of the company, who lives in Montreal Canada, has studied the landscape and created something more refined. When you have to balance cost though, there are some trade-offs to be made. Perhaps future iterations will address some of the minor questions I have about operation, or maybe that’s a benefit to some riders who care more about a safer-feeling more predictable experience than a super responsive one. I noticed that the frame wheelbase is a bit longer with a double-tube yolk vs. custom design that would bring it closer in towards the bottom bracket. When you take a 26″ wheel diameter and add a 4″ tire to it, you end up with a 29er feel. The wheels have a low attack angle that allows them to smooth out bumps and cracks by simply rolling over them vs. going around. But with a longer wheelbase the bike doesn’t turn as quickly or feel as nimble. Larger diameter tires create this feel and the longer frame exacerbates it. Again, I tested the Large frame so perhaps the smaller option would feel tighter, but I doubt it. That frame probably has a shorter seat tube and shorter reach by an inch or inch and a half. This is not a deal killer by any means, the bike feels very stable and steady, but it’s not the most technically capable fat e-bike out there. If you care to double or triple the price, you can get a much lighter, better balanced, but less utilitarian experience from bikes like the Bulls Monster E S or Haibike XDURO Fatsix. For those who enjoy the aesthetic of fat bikes, appreciate the support of electric assist, want some good range and power, and might want to stay dry or haul their groceries or work supplies around… the Téo S Limited is a great choice. I might consider the white frame to increase my visual footprint when riding at night but love how the motor, battery and cables blend in on the black one. This is definitely a purpose-built ebike with internally routed cables that stay mostly hidden regardless of color choice. I’d like to send a big thanks to Benoit, the founder of Téo for partnering with me on this review, providing some additional specs and insights about the company, and of course Patrick for inviting me to his home on Vancouver Island, Canada to test ride his bike. I had a great time and came away very impressed and just feeling good about a motivated focused company and positive fanbase.

Pros:

  • Good weight distribution, the semi-integrated downtube battery pack improves balance and lowers the center of gravity for improved handling and parking
  • The Téo S Limited offers fenders and a rear rack for just $200 more than the Téo S which seems like a great deal to me, I love that all of their models appear to come with lights and they provide two rear lights with the Limited model (one that’s built into the rack so it won’t get blocked by trunk bags)
  • I really like how the rear rack is positioned further out towards the back so that the saddle can come down low and accommodate shorter riders, it’s great that the frame also comes in two sizes to suite medium and taller people
  • I think the frame just looks really cool, the top tube is angled down to reduce stand-over height and most of the cables are internally routed through the frame to reduce snags and improve aesthetic
  • Comfort is a big deal to me, but so is performance, I love that the suspension fork on this bike has preload adjust to reduce bobbing and compression adjust for stiffness along with full lockout (great for heavier riders)
  • The adjustable-angle stem allows you to easily transform this e-bike into a comfortable upright neighborhood bike or get forward, low, and stretched out for trail riding… but to keep an eye on it and tighten if you feel it coming loose at all because it can get stripped, you might even want to bring the included multi-tool along on big rides or replace the stem at some point down the line when you know what body position you really like
  • The Shimano Alivio derailleur is three steps up from the base Tourney model, positioned just above Acera, and offers reliable crisp shifting with two-way action, the nine-speed cassette is perfect for trail riding and provides a nice low range for starting and climbing
  • I love the large, sturdy platform pedals and appreciate the alloy chainring guard and guide to keep your pants clean and the chain from dropping!
  • Probably for shipping purposes as well as trail toughness, the derailleur has a steel guard surrounding it, this will keep the sensitive shifting mechanisms and motor power cable safe, especially if the bike accidentally tips onto its right side
  • Minor plus here, the hydraulic disc brakes are easy to pull, have adjustable-reach levers if you have smaller hands or are wearing gloves and need to bring them in a bit, and they even have motor inhibitors to put you in full control of the drive system but the disc size is a bit small for such a large and heavy bike, Teo has 160 mm rotors vs. 180 mm or even 200/203 which would cool faster and provide greater mechanical advantage
  • The Kenda Juggernaut tires are an upgrade over Chao Yang that I see on some other fat e-bikes, they offer a great PSI range so you can increase traction and ride on snow or sand (lower to the ~5 PSI mark for this sort of terrain)
  • Rather than go cheap with a five or ten magnet cadence sensor, Téo upgraded all the way to twelve and this makes it respond faster so you don’t have to pedal as long to get assist… and of course, you can always just use the twist throttle to help get going from zero
  • The geared hub motor is fat bike specific, this improves spoke bracing angle and the rear spokes are actually thicker for added strength and there are more of them (36 vs. 32 on some other models)
  • The display panel is large but narrow, leaving room for other accessories like the compass bell or maybe a drink holder or phone mount, it’s backlit and easy to see and use but it is not removable and therefor could take more damage if left outside in the elements (some riders put a helmet or garment over their displays to protect them)
  • In addition to the integrated headlight and backlit display panel, you could power some of your own electronic devices by tapping into the USB port on the right side of the battery pack, consider using a right angle USB adapter like this to keep the plug out of the way when you pedal
  • If you hold the down button for a few seconds, it activates walk mode which could be very handy if you need to walk a section of rough trail, navigate through a crowd, or push the bike up stairs considering how heavy it is

Cons:

  • Weighing in at a whopping 72.5 lbs (32.9 kg), this is one of the heaviest electric bikes I have ever tested, fat bikes tend to weigh more but the fenders and larger battery pack really put it over the top, at least the rims are punched out to reduce material and allow for a bit more cushion
  • As much as I appreciate fenders for staying dry and clean, I wonder if Steel fenders add more weight than Aluminum and could start to rust over time, especially if scratched
  • The Teo electric fat bike models seems upgraded from a lot of other value products like the RadRover and VoltBike Yukon (tapered head tube, hydraulic disc brakes, and a suspension seat post) but the wheels still just use a 9 mm skewer and 10 mm axle vs. thicker thru-axles, this is probably good enough for street and light trail riding but the weight of the bike and motor forces being exerted could benefit from upgrades here in the future
  • Minor complaint, there are no bottle cage bosses on this bike frame, consider adding a trunk bag with bottle holster like this
  • The bike I tested did not have a slap guard on the right chainstay which could result in scratches and nicks, at least the frame is Aluminum so it won’t rust there, I was told that the 2018 models will have a Neoprene slap guard
  • The charger is compact and relatively lightweight but it’s not super fast, at 2 Amps, I’d call it average and expect to wait 6.5+ hours for a full charge considering how large the battery is
  • In some ways I appreciate the comfort and utility of the saddle and seat post suspension but do be careful using the integrated saddle handle because if you lift the bike here, it could start to loosen or damage the seat post suspension, maybe lift with the rack or from the frame of the bike vs. the saddle despite this convenient handle
  • As much as I like the design and positioning of the rear light, it is independent, meaning that you have to remember to get off and turn it on and then turn it off after a ride to conserve battery vs. tapping directly into that main rechargeable ebike battery which the headlight is connected to
  • I can’t speak for all sizes, just the Large that I tested, but the wheelbase is longer and the yolk (the part of the frame that connects the bottom bracket to the chainstays that hold the rear wheel) is longer and just less custom, this might impact how snappy the bike feels, how quickly it turns and how maneuverable it is
  • Minor gripe here but I feel that the seat post (and seat tube) could have been thicker to improve strength and allow for heavier riders or a more robust suspension component, the 27.2 mm post works fine and I haven’t heard of issues but there is probably a reason that some off-road ebikes come with 30.9 or 31.6 mm posts
  • On the one hand, I love that the throttle overrides pedal assist at full power, but I wish that you didn’t have to pedal for a moment in order to sort of unlock it, some other designs give you throttle power instantly and this is useful for starting off from zero or getting a quick burst of power while balancing the bike on rough terrain and not pedaling (or if you raise the pedals while going through water or deep snow… you have to pedal on this bike for a moment to get that throttle to switch on)
  • Be mindful of the charger cord if you decide to charge the battery pack while mounted to the bike, notice how the left crank arm passes right by the charging port and could snag or bend the plug accidentally if bumped

Resources:

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Denis Shelston
4 months ago

Thank you Court for another great review. I have purchased a Téo, exactly as Patrick did, from positive comments and a review from a hard core fan and participant on EBR’s own forum , Stéphane, aka America94.

I’ve been riding it for over month now, and am truly impressed. I am 65 and a former very well travelled motorcycle enthusiast who thought his days on 2 wheels were over.

My Téo has empowered me, I simply enjoy quiet rides in my neighbourhood. I have pimped it a bit with phone holder, tail bag, flashing light, etc. Love it

The e-bike, pedal assist, is a fantastic concept and am wishing for more people to understand it, and not raise their nose at the idea… I found that the spandex crowd looks at us funny. My 6-pack may be hiding, but I’m outside, breathing fresh air and having the time of my life.

Thanks for confirming I made a wise purchase.

Reply
Court Rye
4 months ago

Awesome, what a great comment Denis! Thanks for mentioning the Téo forums and Stéphane. I’m glad he was able to help people get interested in this bike and ultimately, to help me review it! That’s what I was hoping for when I launched them a couple of years back. Your comment is very appreciated and I hope you continue enjoying the Téo e-bike and enjoying that fresh air ;)

Reply
Denis Shelston
4 months ago

A quick note… your review shows the price as $2.2K. That is the correct price is Canadian dollars. At today’s rate this is $1725 USD. I am just afraid some readers in the US may be find it overpriced at $2200. It is a great bang for the buck, either in CAD$ or US$.

Patrick Simpson
4 months ago

Hi Court, It was great meeting you and having you do the review on my Teo S Fat Bike. I enjoyed our conversations and wish we had just a little more time to check out that great Chinese buffet I was telling you about, but BC Ferries wait for no one. Next time you are over on the island, the Chinese Buffet is on me!

You got the review out quicker than I expected and it’s a really good review. My bike is now a famous movie star! (blush) :)

Here is my link for anyone who wishes to order a Teo Fat Bike. Kind regards, Patrick, Coombs, BC, Canada

Reply
Court Rye
4 months ago

Thank you so much for the hospitality Patrick! I enjoyed living a day in your shoes and having some great conversations during the car ride. I too, wish that we had been able to get some Chinese food together… but I am sure to return! You’ve got a friend in me, thanks again for making this possible, it was a blast and totally happened because you put yourself out there and reached out. Thanks :)

Reply
Patrick Simpson
4 months ago

I am honored to be your friend, Court!

I’m re-reading the review and I have one small correction to ask. The steel fenders are actually really quite light. Though I never weighed them, steel is often lighter than aluminum for certain tasks. Because it doesn’t need much thickness to be strong, it can be quite thin and light. A couple examples I’m aware of, though not strictly about steel vs aluminum is how incredibly light steel studs for construction are compared to wooden studs, and yet they are stronger structurally. My neighbor Bob, who built many race cars used steel hoods on his cars rather than the supposedly lighter fiberglass because the steel was thinner. Surprisingly, the steel hood weighed a quarter of what the fiberglass one did because the fiberglass had to be thicker to prevent flex.

Anyway, the point is that, though I never weighed the steel fenders, they were extremely light, probably ounces. I think the weight in the Teo is in a strong frame, heavy duty battery, and powerful motor.

I get happier every time I ride my Teo. It just gets better and better and exceeds my expectations every time I rider her to town and back home. :) I compare it to a Harley Davidson vs a sportbike. The Harley is more solid and can carry more stuff on a trip. Just my humble opinion. Still, a great review you did, my friend!

Well Done and Thank You! Patrick, Coombs, BC

Reply
Court Rye
4 months ago

Great point Patrick, your story about Bob using Steel hoods vs. Fiberglass is intriguing. I wonder how Carbon fiber hoods compare?! In any case, I appreciate the time you spent to think this out and share an alternative perspective. I do agree that the sturdy frame build and larger frame size play a role here. It would be neat to weigh Steel vs. Aluminum fenders but there are other factors to consider, like durability, thickness to achieve said durability. I guess I shouldn’t make assumptions that Steel is heavier, I may amend that in the review ;)

Reply
James
4 months ago

Damn Dude, you really seem to love to dear yourself talk, most of your reviews could be accomplished in a third or a quarter of the time you take if you learn to be succient, i almost hung myself listening and watching your long ass reviews

Reply
Court Rye
4 months ago

Well, since you survived the extra long review is there anything I can help you answer about the bike? I do these longer reviews for fun sometimes and tend to go extra deep because new smaller brands don’t always get as much coverage. I believe YouTube does have a fast-play option as well, if you get bored in the future.

Reply
Matt
4 months ago

Court, Love the reviews, I have learned a lot from them. I am currently looking at fat bikes like this for my initial dive into ebiking. I wish the Rad Rover had extended life battery and some of the other options on ones like this and the M2S R750. I also love how you stay classy no matter what the feedback. Again, I appreciate all the info and the passion you bring.

FRANK S BAILEY
3 days ago

No need to be rude. Court’s are about the best reviews you will find about any type of product in terms of deatail, neurtality, and fun.

Reply
Court Rye
3 days ago

Thanks Frank! I’m doing my best, but always open to ideas for improving or just encouragement. Trying to balance the three things you listed and enjoying the ride :D

Benoit Dumont
4 months ago

Hello everybody,

I appreciated very much the evaluation of our TEO S limited. Thank you Court and Peter for your time. I noticed that the rear fender was loose and creates noise. This can be done by tightening the screws. For the trottle it is possible to use it without pedaling. You only need to disconnect a wire from the controller. I also want to say that teo s limited is available in two versions of 500W or 750W motor.

If you have any questions about our bikes, you can contact me at: benoit@teofatbike.com

Reply
Court Rye
4 months ago

Thanks for this help Benoit! I thought your bike performed well and enjoyed testing it in the forest. I hope to check out your other models someday and wish you luck with your new company :)

Reply
Gabriel Chirita
2 months ago

Extremelly bad experience with Theo fatbike. The bike was improperly mounted by them. Cables were either loose or too tight. I had to readjust the cables for the brakes. Two weeks after the purchase, the plug of the cable connecting the motor to the throttle broke. They refused to replace it on the pretext that we “ripped it off” so we had to go to another bike shop where they also discovered that the caliper is defective. We needed to have replaced the caliper and the pad that it was tainted by oil because of faulty caliper. Theo fatbike agreed to replace the caliper but not the pad, even if it was unusable. My opinion is that they don’t know anything at all about repairing bikes and that they just assemble them. Customer service is very bad! We had to call them several times and go several times to their shop. This new start-up has no idea how to do business.

Reply
Court Rye
2 months ago

Ouch, that’s such a bummer Gabriel! I am sorry to hear that your purchase has been difficult and frustrating. I always feel conflicted, and do my best reviewing, but this sort of feedback may reach the company or help others to set expectations. Whatever the issues has been, I hope that Téo is able to overcome it and improve their product in the future and that you are able to find a product that works better, or get your own Téo Fatbike working properly :(

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Dan
3 weeks ago

Nice review Court, Like Dennis mentioned above, I started learning about e Bikes on this forum. And made my buying choice from here. So we all know the positives of the Teo’ its when their are problems! My case and several other US based owners all received 500 watt Canadian models despite assurances from Bennoit that US shipped models would be rated 750 watt models (Radrover climbs hills without major effort also has a watts output on the display). So Bennoit has offered to do a parts exchange to bring these bikes up too 750 watts. At the owners cost of disassembly and shipping.! I enjoy riding with my wife (she has the RadRover) We are limited by her battery range. I wish Bennoit would have addressed this issue different. I have many people asking were and how much are the bikes.

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Court Rye
3 weeks ago

Hmm, that’s frustrating Dan. Thanks for sharing your experience vs. your wife’s, it’s cool that you both have ebikes to ride and I wish you were enjoying them both vs. having some issues. I’m sure Bennoit is trying his best, but it’s probably a smaller company, it looks like he is also newer to the space. All I can say is thanks for sharing and I welcome further feedback as this gets resolved.

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ruben de wulf
12 hours ago

I've had a 3.0 for just over a month now - done nearly 600k.

The motor is beautiful, especially when it has been set with a top speed of 45k. Mine developed a little squeal early on, but the dealer told me to put some miles on it, and it has gone away.

I was wondering how the gearing on the 3.0 would go at 45k, as specialised designed it for a 32kmh motor. The 3.0 has a 40t at the front - the 5.0/6.0 which are the designated 45km/h models have a 48 tooth chainring. The around town and bike path riding I've done means I don't have need to push much faster than 40km/h, so the existing gearing is perfect.

I've wound it up to 48km/h on the flat, and that was at full stretch. I can't imagine being limited to 25 or 32km/h. Useful speed for dense urban area I suppose, but this bike loves to stretch its legs and seems to almost sing as it goes faster and faster.

The 47mm trigger sport reflect tires are suprisingly fast, but looks bloody silly. I'm not brave enough to really lean into the curves, so don't know their limits. At some point I will try 50mm schwalbe big apples or bens or marathon supremes (the 6.0 use a 51mm tire so should be room).

Brakes are a little underwhelming. I am heavy and feel they are just good enough, but no more. They have a soft feel and need a lot of squeezing to dump high speeds. My mass is the issue of course: gotta take a lot to stop a lot of gut when it's near escape velocity.

The lack of shift detection on the Brose is a thing. Bosch is clearly superior and in use much faster and easier to flick through the gears. On the Vado I'm not afraid to admit that I'm a rookie rider and spent weeks mashing the gears to smithereens. I've improved, but still bang out poor changes with regularity. Mostly it's just learning how long the brose will keep supplying power after you stop peddelling - there's a 3rd of a second or so where the power continues and will cause the gears to graunch if you shift too early. I wonder if this response time will improve with later firmware.

My clock resets to 6:00am every time the system is powered on - no word yet on what the distributor wants to do about it.
Can i ask Who set the bike to 45?

Gary R Peacock
20 hours ago

Generally accepted lore has it that mid drives climb better than rear drives. I've had both, and my very limited experience supports that. I am down in Saratoga County, but I get up into the ADKs a fair bit and my Trek xm-700+ has been very good with the hills so far, as long as they're only normally steep anyhow. Big fan of that Bosch system!

If you read through the Trek folder here, specifically a thread about "Improvements To My xm-700", I believe it's called, you'll see that there's at least two guys here who have modified theirs by adding a 42 tooth low gear past the existing 36 tooth gear, and replacing two of the higher gears with one to keep the 10 speed cassette. I very much like that idea for the security of a real barn burner low gear, and intend to do it in the spring. Just yesterday I was on a hill in the north side of Troy that really got my attention, and I would very much have liked to have that extra low gear. I like just heading out places and not planning every inch, and around here you do tend to run into some surprising inclines from time to time.

Above advice is the best though, keep riding bikes until you find one that speaks to you. What did you think of that Giant, anyhow? I saw one not long ago in the High Peaks Cycle shop in Lake Placid, which surprised me a little. Grey Ghost in Glens Falls has them, too.

NOBLNG
1 day ago

I received my Yukon 750 Limited last week. It has all of the upgrades that owners have been asking for. First impressions are WOW this thing is great!
Well I got a chance to ride along with my buddy this weekend. We went twice around a 7km long twisty single track trail through the bush at a local provincial park. I've got to say this bike is NOT designed for this type of riding! There is a bit of lag to get going and a LOT of lag before the motor cuts out after I stop pedaling. I needed to keep cutting the power constantly via the brakes to avoid hitting the trees or careening off the path. The motor is not geared low enough to maintain a slow-controllable pace on a super tight trail. My buddy is a more experienced rider and has a mid-drive and seemed to make out better. That said, I love the bike on the street and it will be just fine on more open trails. I did not buy it with the intention of doing tight trails or winter riding so I am looking forward to better weather so I can really get some use out of it.
Greg.

John from Connecticut
3 days ago

Is this even possible in the US at the moment? Unlike Asia and Europe where bikes are actually seen as a legitimate means of transportation most of what I've seen in the States is that biking is seen more as a recreational activity with only a tiny number (relatively speaking) of users. This isn't just limited to ebikes, when I ride a bike in my small town for every 5 persons who actually seem to be using their bikes to go to the market or work or whatever there seem to be 15 bikers riding high-end road bikes with the spandex getup which I just can't see being apoted by non-entusiasts. Even in places like Washington DC and Portland that are seen as super-bike friendly the number of bikers you see are a very small number compared to car users. So long as gas costs are so low here and the use of cars so high what little infrastructure there is for bikes seems to be, at best, an afterthought. Hopefully I'm totally wrong but seeing how the bikes that are talked about the most are high priced, very top of the line bikes it seems that the bike makers are looking to become the next Ferrari and not too concerned about building the next Toyota Corolla.

Hello.
I completely agree. My opinion.... Based on just good old observations and general conversations I've had with folks about bike riding, there never will be a
Michael Dell of e-Bike in the US. Cycling in the main stay is going no where. ( No pun intended ) I talk up the value and virtues and how I love my e-Bike,
to most anyone capable of riding hoping to spark some interest... Zero interest in riding a bike, never mind an e-Bike. Bike riding is not part of the
American culture.

I hear things like " Oh yea, I have a bike but haven't it in ( fill in the years ) 10, 15 who knows." Yes, the road folks are very active in the sport, but have
you checked the average age of road club riders ? They're not 'kids' and I'm being kind. When those folks are gone then what ? ( for cycling in general that is)

We all know the joy ease and fun of a quality e-bike, that's a no brainer. The issue is bike riding is just not in many or most folks thought process. That's
what it gets down to. My guess....The major manufacturers know this and are building 'Ferraris' and not 'Toyota Corolla' 'cause folks like myself and others
are willing to purchase and really value a quality product. ..There is a ray of hope. The owner of my LBS told me the growth in cycling is e-Bikes and wait for it
BMX.

One very last thought. It troubles me that some LBS owners are struggling, because they play a huge role for a first or second time buyer and without
them it will be even more difficult get and or keep new riders in the sport. Just my two cents.

John from CT

Johnny
4 days ago

The Bosch Performance Line models will give max speed of 28mph assist, the CX models are limited to 20mph.
Haibikes choice of names and model numbers for their bikes is confusing, and seems to have changed this year to add to the confusion.
But that are beautifully made machines. The welds, fittings, and overall design are top notch.
And I have to agree with you about the cost of the batteries! but then again I don't know what goes into the making of the batteries, but still, almost $1000 for a 500w is a lot of $$$$.

Is there a difference other than Bosch motor instead of Yamaha between Xduro and Sduro lines(like better frame , components etc?).

Should I go for hard tail or Full suspension ? I am also thinking of riding the bike on trails but then how will the commute be with FS ?

bob armani
4 days ago

The Bosch Performance Line models will give max speed of 28mph assist, the CX models are limited to 20mph.
Haibikes choice of names and model numbers for their bikes is confusing, and seems to have changed this year to add to the confusion.
But that are beautifully made machines. The welds, fittings, and overall design are top notch.
And I have to agree with you about the cost of the batteries! but then again I don't know what goes into the making of the batteries, but still, almost $1000 for a 500w is a lot of $$$$.
Thanks Paul. Sounds like a quality build and you get what you pay for when you purchase Haibike! Not sure why they make it so confusing for the consumer to interpret all of their different models though.

hurricane56
4 days ago

The Bosch Performance Line models will give max speed of 28mph assist, the CX models are limited to 20mph.
Haibikes choice of names and model numbers for their bikes is confusing, and seems to have changed this year to add to the confusion.
But that are beautifully made machines. The welds, fittings, and overall design are top notch.

Yup, that’s what you pay for with most of he higher end European brands. All of the fit and finish is very detailed and high quality.

tallpaul
4 days ago

The Bosch Performance Line models will give max speed of 28mph assist, the CX models are limited to 20mph.
Haibikes choice of names and model numbers for their bikes is confusing, and seems to have changed this year to add to the confusion.
But that are beautifully made machines. The welds, fittings, and overall design are top notch.
And I have to agree with you about the cost of the batteries! but then again I don't know what goes into the making of the batteries, but still, almost $1000 for a 500w is a lot of $$$$.

Dewey
4 days ago

It seems Explore uses a version that is speed limited to 20, yet I see 28 mph version of the same "sport " model. I should find a shop and test these models.

The Giant Explore is speed limited to 20mph, there isn’t a speed pedelec version of the Explore E+3 but a choice of diamond or mid-step frames. The motor is capable of higher speeds because the SyncDrive Sport motor is used on the Quick E speed pedelec model just with a higher speed limit. Court’s reviews of other bikes in the category are here https://electricbikereview.com/category/speed. If you can, try to test ride and compare ebikes with mid-drive or hub motors with a torque pedal assist sensor and a mid mounted battery as rack mounted batteries push too much weight to the rear.

Ken M
5 days ago

-Ohm
-Bulls Outlaw
-Smartmotion
-The new generation Easy Motion hub drives
-Juicebikes CCS - Torah names his power assist as "dynamic assist", no jerky on-off propulsion.
-Radcity
-Magnum- some riders report jerky on-off feel at low speeds.

I tend to think of geared hub motors as unique from gear-less hub motors. While the gear reduction in a geared hub motors certainly provides more torque it does so at the expense of reduced reliability (the internal gears are almost always plastic and they will wear out of time ... I've read that many tend to need replacement every 5,000 - 10,000km while a gear-less hub drive has literally no wear-out expect for the axle bearings which can last up to 100,000km).

The sad result of the motor regulations in Europe usually pushes the technology towards mid-drives because the internal gear reductions multiple the torque of low wattage motors. In the US the 750W regulation provides a unique opportunity for a gear-less hub motor to provide a better solution overall.

Note: In reality the 750W rating is dubious because peak ratings tend to ignore the specification. In reality any motor could be rated at 750W based on a test protocol. Unless both the controller and motor are considered in the drive specification the regulations are of no real legal merit (which is a good thing for anyone really wanting a good performance eBike and not some slow European eBike limited to 20mph max assist speed.

I know now I'll get a bunch of haters telling me that 20mph is fast enough and anything faster is not safe because they are scared to ride faster. Serious get a life and let those that feel comfortable riding at 20-40mph enjoy some assist at those speeds.

Johnny
5 days ago

@Dewey: Again thanks for the info, I didn't know that Giant customized their motors. Again when I was looking into the specifications I did not see much information about the motor. It seems Explore uses a version that is speed limited to 20, yet I see 28 mph version of the same "sport " model.

I'm a huge Haibike fan, I own two 2016 bikes. A Full Seven XDURO S RX mtb, and a Trekking XDURO S RX. Both are speed versions, 28mph, both are Bosch. You get a little noise from the Bosch mid drive (as compared to the Brose for example), but it's so smooth in handling power and torque. Personally, I feel the Bosch is worth every penny. If you ride many hills, you'll appreciate the 28mph bikes. When riding a 20mph bike, you go over that coming down the grade. But when you get to that 20mph setting as you level out, you can feel it hunt between assist and no assist. With the 28mph, you just don't hit that annoyance. Right now is the perfect time to buy a Haibike. I bought one in November 2016 and the other in March 2017. Both highly discounted from MSRP.

Thanks for the response, so you advise going for a 2017 x duro instead of an sduro ? I realize that for some models they did not state the maxspeed but should I assume that it is 28mph if the system is 350w Bosch CX ?
I think at some place that Bosch system will not accept other battery packs (and I see that Bosch insanely overprices their packs ) is it still the case?

I should find a shop and test these models.

Johnny
5 days ago

Thank you very much for the answers.

@hurricane56 : I think I will be ok with a kit and I actually enjoy installation part but again I couldn't find a torque sensing kit that is sold in US and I don't want to order it from China. How far do you plan to commute? Right now 20-25miles a day but I want to be able to 30+ everyday.

@JRA : I may be biased against cadence sensor only systems, I am thinking since I will be paying a considerable amount to a decent conversion kit I should be getting the torque sensor too. Also most of the riders seem to prefer torque sensors. Of course I may be wrong. In terms of weight I am ok with it, I usually ride with my backpack and I am used to riding heavy. I also prefer to ride at lower rpm's even when I am climbing (Most of my friends are the exact opposite).

@Dewey : Those two seem like really nice options. Seems 2017 Haibikes are going a bit cheaper then Giant's offerings do you think Giant is better? Also I think there are also Bosch systems which seem to cost a bit more, how do yamaha and Bosch compare. Again I usually am a low rpm rider. I also saw that most are limited to 20mph which can be a little limiting for me , is there any way to reprogram to achieve 25mph ?

thanks a lot

Saratoga Dave
6 days ago

Generally accepted lore has it that mid drives climb better than rear drives. I've had both, and my very limited experience supports that. I am down in Saratoga County, but I get up into the ADKs a fair bit and my Trek xm-700+ has been very good with the hills so far, as long as they're only normally steep anyhow. Big fan of that Bosch system!

If you read through the Trek folder here, specifically a thread about "Improvements To My xm-700", I believe it's called, you'll see that there's at least two guys here who have modified theirs by adding a 42 tooth low gear past the existing 36 tooth gear, and replacing two of the higher gears with one to keep the 10 speed cassette. I very much like that idea for the security of a real barn burner low gear, and intend to do it in the spring. Just yesterday I was on a hill in the north side of Troy that really got my attention, and I would very much have liked to have that extra low gear. I like just heading out places and not planning every inch, and around here you do tend to run into some surprising inclines from time to time.

Above advice is the best though, keep riding bikes until you find one that speaks to you. What did you think of that Giant, anyhow? I saw one not long ago in the High Peaks Cycle shop in Lake Placid, which surprised me a little. Grey Ghost in Glens Falls has them, too.

Dwight Anderson
7 days ago

Two observations:

1) The power of the Yukon 750 is not restricted. You can set the current from 1A to 30A. The label on the controller shows max 20A. I believe the default setting is U.S. 15A (x 48V ~ 750W motor) and Canada 10A (x 48V ~ 500W motor). It is not locked, so the user can change it. I tried setting it to 20A, and my display shows 1,000W on full throttle. I set it back to 15A, because 1,000W is beyond the operating Wattage of the motor, and I don't need that much power.

2) The 32 km/h max speed is based on an average rider weight (say 180 lbs) on flat ground. If you are lighter or going downhill, the throttle alone can go faster than 32 km/hr. Conversely, if you are heavier, then the throttle alone may not reach 32 km/h on flat.

As an experiment, I lifted the rear wheel off the ground (ie. weightless rider), and the throttle alone can reach max 40 km/h. This makes sense, because with a 180 lbs rider, the speed will drop back down to the legal 32 km/h .
Glad to hear you all love your bikes! I ordered mine on Thursday and received it on Monday. It was too good of a deal to pass up, $200 off regular price plus free shipping. I have very little experience with e-bikes. My Buddy has a Bionix and also added a BBSHD to his KHS500. I rode them each briefly one day and was hooked. My new Yukon 750 Limited has the chain stay protector, derailleur protector and an adjustable handlebar stem. It also has an 11.6Ah battery and a twist throttle instead of a thumb style. I have not ridden it yet except once around the yard at work. It's -14C right now but is supposed to get up to -2 on the weekend. I hope it does so I can try it out a bit. Thanks to all, I enjoyed reading this thread greatly. It is good to know that the bike is so user-friendly and that all sorts of upgrades are possible.
Greg.

Welcome Nobling. You are going to love your bike. I have the Yukon 750 limited and it is everything I hoped for in an electric bike.

america94
1 week ago

Well i finally got my maiden voyage in.I haven't been on a bike or a motorcycle in forever it seems.
I made it through the day without damage to myself or the bike.I had a few hicups but nothing major.
An annoying rattle on the front fender because of loose screws.I also forgot to tighten the screw that holds the seat level.
Half of the trip,before I realized the seat shifting on me and pinching my nether regions.Fortunately I had taken the tool kit with me.
Even when I got the seat secure I realized that a new seat purchase would be comming in the near future.
You probably read the above issue i had with my display and getting into the settings.Problem is solved so tomorrow I will be able to see what it can do speed wise.
Today I it got up to about 32km mybe a smidgen more.It is exactly where the speed was set in the settings.
It also appears i need to tweak my front brakes a tad to get it alighned better,the caliper appears to be rubbing a bit.
Most definately looking forward to tomorrows ride.
I know my doctor,dietician,vascular surgeon,and my cardiac surgeon will be thrilled I was able to complete my ride without any issues with my legs acting up.
Which was the main reason for my purchase is being able to exercise having very limited mobiliy in my legs from artery desease.
Who knew it would be so much fun exercising.I had more fun today than a midget at mini skirt convention.
Thank you all for the great input!
Well that is very positive Jim! very happy for you! I was getting so out of shape myself, the bike helped so much as I became addicted real quick and try to use PAS 0 as much as possible to get some real exercise going. Keep us posted! before you replace the seat, you might want to check online how to properly set it up... i did end up replacing mine, but adjusting it properly helped a lot!!

NOBLNG
1 week ago

Glad to hear you all love your bikes! I ordered mine on Thursday and received it on Monday. It was too good of a deal to pass up, $200 off regular price plus free shipping. I have very little experience with e-bikes. My Buddy has a Bionix and also added a BBSHD to his KHS500. I rode them each briefly one day and was hooked. My new Yukon 750 Limited has the chain stay protector, derailleur protector and an adjustable handlebar stem. It also has an 11.6Ah battery and a twist throttle instead of a thumb style. I have not ridden it yet except once around the yard at work. It's -14C right now but is supposed to get up to -2 on the weekend. I hope it does so I can try it out a bit. Thanks to all, I enjoyed reading this thread greatly. It is good to know that the bike is so user-friendly and that all sorts of upgrades are possible.
Greg.

Bryan995
1 week ago

1. The drive has a tendency to resist your efforts above a certain RPM level, and the cadence window in which it provides power is pretty limited. This is perceptible in Standard mode, and painfully perceptible in ECO and ECO+ modes.

This has several consequences:

- If you want to tour around in a hilly area, you need to be really fit with the Yamaha. I use ECO mode only when absolutely needed. The Bosch and Shimano ECO modes are infinitely easier on the knees.

- If you want to climb a hill, the lowest gears might not necessarily be the best gears. If you're spinning away in 1st gear you will quickly hit a cadence where power drops off. This means you'll need to shift up a gear or two to get power. But it also means that climbing will be more difficult on the knees (once again). I climb a 7% grade incline every day and the bike is in 8th or 9th gear (meaning, 2-3 gears away from 11 teeth). I hand't noticed this until someone remarked that I was climbing in a really high gear. Might explain why my knees ache sometimes...

- Because the cadence is limited, the bike requires an inordinate number of gear shifts in traffic. Think of a scenario where you have several consecutive red lights. After the first red light goes green, I need to shift up 6 times to reach cruising speed. But as soon as I reach cruising speed, I have to shift down several times as well. And start over at each red light. Other drives, like the Bosch or the Shimano have a more intelligent way of dealing with this. Start in 1st gear and shift into second or third gear, then increase the number of RPMs instead of shifting through all the gears. You'll get just as much power and won't constantly be changing gears.

2. The engineering on some of the parts isn't up to Yamaha standards.

- The remote is fastened by screws which “bite” into the plastic casing. The result is that it’s impossible to tighten them so that the remote doesn’t swivel around the handlebars. This means that it’s nearly impossible to walk the bike up a hill using RUN mode. Press on the RUN button and the remote simply swivels out of your hand.

-The bike’s remote is designed in such a manner that you have to take your right hand off the handlebars in order to switch to another level of assist. But the remote often slips away...

- The button to power on the bike is starting to fail. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

- The diagnostic button on the battery sometimes doesn't work.

3. Although not directly Yamaha's fault, the lighting on many Trekking Sduros is not sufficient for riding in the countryside at night. I have a Trekking Sduro S 6.0 which has a 60 lux light. When riding in the forest at night I can't see the contours of the road ahead. This is because the projected beam is too narrow and the lights not powerful enough.

So, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy a Yamaha powered bike. This is particularly true of the older PW drive system, which still equips most SDUROs.

Awesome - thanks for the incredible write up. You've convinced me to steer clear of the yamaha drives for the time being. Which of course means that I would need to step up to a Xduro treekking for significant more money.

Local dealer just called and offered a 2017 Haibiki Xduro Trekking S (bosch speed powered) for $3200. Hmm ... I think I might be able to do a tad better if I wait a bit longer ..

Still very much worried about buying the IZIP via remote dealer, having an issue and then being stranded without local dealer support. Even though the price is very attractive. It seems like even if I don't buy the IZIP from the local dealer, they may still be able to / obligated to help with IZIP warranty work? The Xduro 5.0 sure is tempting, but it a bit overkill for my current needs.

hurricane56
1 week ago

1. The drive has a tendency to resist your efforts above a certain RPM level, and the cadence window in which it provides power is pretty limited. This is perceptible in Standard mode, and painfully perceptible in ECO and ECO+ modes.

This has several consequences:

- If you want to tour around in a hilly area, you need to be really fit with the Yamaha. I use ECO mode only when absolutely needed. The Bosch and Shimano ECO modes are infinitely easier on the knees.

- If you want to climb a hill, the lowest gears might not necessarily be the best gears. If you're spinning away in 1st gear you will quickly hit a cadence where power drops off. This means you'll need to shift up a gear or two to get power. But it also means that climbing will be more difficult on the knees (once again). I climb a 7% grade incline every day and the bike is in 8th or 9th gear (meaning, 2-3 gears away from 11 teeth). I hand't noticed this until someone remarked that I was climbing in a really high gear. Might explain why my knees ache sometimes...

- Because the cadence is limited, the bike requires an inordinate number of gear shifts in traffic. Think of a scenario where you have several consecutive red lights. After the first red light goes green, I need to shift up 6 times to reach cruising speed. But as soon as I reach cruising speed, I have to shift down several times as well. And start over at each red light. Other drives, like the Bosch or the Shimano have a more intelligent way of dealing with this. Start in 1st gear and shift into second or third gear, then increase the number of RPMs instead of shifting through all the gears. You'll get just as much power and won't constantly be changing gears.

2. The engineering on some of the parts isn't up to Yamaha standards.

- The remote is fastened by screws which “bite” into the plastic casing. The result is that it’s impossible to tighten them so that the remote doesn’t swivel around the handlebars. This means that it’s nearly impossible to walk the bike up a hill using RUN mode. Press on the RUN button and the remote simply swivels out of your hand.

-The bike’s remote is designed in such a manner that you have to take your right hand off the handlebars in order to switch to another level of assist. But the remote often slips away...

- The button to power on the bike is starting to fail. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

- The diagnostic button on the battery sometimes doesn't work.

3. Although not directly Yamaha's fault, the lighting on many Trekking Sduros is not sufficient for riding in the countryside at night. I have a Trekking Sduro S 6.0 which has a 60 lux light. When riding in the forest at night I can't see the contours of the road ahead. This is because the projected beam is too narrow and the lights not powerful enough.

So, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy a Yamaha powered bike. This is particularly true of the older PW drive system, which still equips most SDUROs.
That's really good insight on the Yamaha system. Also completely agree on the stock lighting. The 60 lux unit is barely adequate for 20mph city riding. The first thing about night commuting is that you live and die by your lighting setup.

JayVee
1 week ago

What did you not like about the Yamaha system?

1. The drive has a tendency to resist your efforts above a certain RPM level, and the cadence window in which it provides power is pretty limited. This is perceptible in Standard mode, and painfully perceptible in ECO and ECO+ modes.

This has several consequences:

- If you want to tour around in a hilly area, you need to be really fit with the Yamaha. I use ECO mode only when absolutely needed. The Bosch and Shimano ECO modes are infinitely easier on the knees.

- If you want to climb a hill, the lowest gears might not necessarily be the best gears. If you're spinning away in 1st gear you will quickly hit a cadence where power drops off. This means you'll need to shift up a gear or two to get power. But it also means that climbing will be more difficult on the knees (once again). I climb a 7% grade incline every day and the bike is in 8th or 9th gear (meaning, 2-3 gears away from 11 teeth). I hand't noticed this until someone remarked that I was climbing in a really high gear. Might explain why my knees ache sometimes...

- Because the cadence is limited, the bike requires an inordinate number of gear shifts in traffic. Think of a scenario where you have several consecutive red lights. After the first red light goes green, I need to shift up 6 times to reach cruising speed. But as soon as I reach cruising speed, I have to shift down several times as well. And start over at each red light. Other drives, like the Bosch or the Shimano have a more intelligent way of dealing with this. Start in 1st gear and shift into second or third gear, then increase the number of RPMs instead of shifting through all the gears. You'll get just as much power and won't constantly be changing gears.

2. The engineering on some of the parts isn't up to Yamaha standards.

- The remote is fastened by screws which “bite” into the plastic casing. The result is that it’s impossible to tighten them so that the remote doesn’t swivel around the handlebars. This means that it’s nearly impossible to walk the bike up a hill using RUN mode. Press on the RUN button and the remote simply swivels out of your hand.

-The bike’s remote is designed in such a manner that you have to take your right hand off the handlebars in order to switch to another level of assist. But the remote often slips away...

- The button to power on the bike is starting to fail. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

- The diagnostic button on the battery sometimes doesn't work.

3. Although not directly Yamaha's fault, the lighting on many Trekking Sduros is not sufficient for riding in the countryside at night. I have a Trekking Sduro S 6.0 which has a 60 lux light. When riding in the forest at night I can't see the contours of the road ahead. This is because the projected beam is too narrow and the lights not powerful enough.

So, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy a Yamaha powered bike. This is particularly true of the older PW drive system, which still equips most SDUROs.

Backnine
1 week ago

New member from the mountains of upstate New York. I have a 5 year old Cannondale 29 hard tail that I am planning to convert. I live in a very hilly area. I ride mostly on the road with occassional limited off road. Typical ride without power is 10-15 miles but hoping to extend my range with some electric help. Looking for some suggestions about conversion kits.

Jim Carroll
1 week ago

Well i finally got my maiden voyage in.I haven't been on a bike or a motorcycle in forever it seems.
I made it through the day without damage to myself or the bike.I had a few hicups but nothing major.
An annoying rattle on the front fender because of loose screws.I also forgot to tighten the screw that holds the seat level.
Half of the trip,before I realized the seat shifting on me and pinching my nether regions.Fortunately I had taken the tool kit with me.
Even when I got the seat secure I realized that a new seat purchase would be comming in the near future.
You probably read the above issue i had with my display and getting into the settings.Problem is solved so tomorrow I will be able to see what it can do speed wise.
Today I it got up to about 32km mybe a smidgen more.It is exactly where the speed was set in the settings.
It also appears i need to tweak my front brakes a tad to get it alighned better,the caliper appears to be rubbing a bit.
Most definately looking forward to tomorrows ride.
I know my doctor,dietician,vascular surgeon,and my cardiac surgeon will be thrilled I was able to complete my ride without any issues with my legs acting up.
Which was the main reason for my purchase is being able to exercise having very limited mobiliy in my legs from artery desease.
Who knew it would be so much fun exercising.I had more fun today than a midget at mini skirt convention.
Thank you all for the great input!

bob armani
1 week ago

Yes, we are the factory of the electric bikes, we have been have 3000 sq meter space in California,USA. so we what we can do for the online shop seller or shops;

1. Ship the bikes to customers after you sold the bike ONLINE.

2. Keep good profit for the shops(example: drop shipping price 900USD, Retail price 1599USD. you get 699USD )

3. Always update the ebikes from customer&shop's feedback

4. Newest version ebike from china. we will update the ebikes every month.

5. All shops in US and Canada keep same retail price

Contact:

Lily Xu

info@eunorau-ebike.com

www.eunorau-ebike.com
I thought perhaps you would have several different models on your website. I only see 2 fatbikes with limited specs listed. Are you going to expand your offerings anytime soon on your website?

daniel58
1 week ago

Hi Liz,
Have you considered building your own? If you have a bike you enjoy, and it sounds like you do, then building an ebike based on the bike you have might be the answer. I know it sounds daunting, but there are several kits out there that completely plug and play. With just a few hand tools and a little patience you can DIY!
You might look at the Bafang BBSHD. I have put many of these on bikes (just did another one today!), it only takes a few hours, and the results are amazing! And reasonably priced! You can get a complete kit with a very good battery for around $1250-1350, which fits your price point nicely, and you get an ebike that will do 35mph top speed and has about a 30 mile range, and will climb very steep hills with ease. They are very robust, I personally have logged thousands of miles on mine and I have not broke it yet! They include a throttle, which is not included on many factory bikes, and they are completely user programmable, so you can easily dial down the performance to suit local laws and your own needs. The entire kit adds only about 18lbs to your bike. If you do not feel you are up to the task you can have the kit installed for you (I can help with that!) and still be well below your 2k price point! I checked out your bike on line and it looks to be an ideal candidate for a ebike build! You CAN DIY! PM me for more info!

Is there any such thing as a direct drive electric gearless and brushless hub drive motor e-bike conversion kit; I hear that they are very reliable and have been around for awhile now; with basically no moving geared moving parts to potentially have to lubricate and to even go bad down the line; now I also hear good things about direct drive electric hub drive motors in that they can also potentially effectively assist one to help slow down ones e-bike safely also as well; and in doing so that would allow one to actually help to prolong ones mechanical disk brake pad life as an added benefit; especially down those long down hill mountain stretches in particular; I don't know of any potential direct drive electric hub drive motor e-bike conversion kits that might be worth considering for a potential e-bike application; I will also probably have to also likely get a decent branded name Raleigh host bike that has decent performing mechanical disk brakes also as well; that would also give the additional capability of having a triple chain ring front derailleur also as well; this to be able to maintain flexibly in switching from a set of lower set of gearing ranges; while also at the same time also being also capable of switching oneself to a higher set of gearing ranges also as well; I realize that this might be a tall order for a potential D.I.Y e-bike project as most e-bikes converted typically only have a single common front chain ring in front typically; hopefully direct drive electric hub drive motors have improved to the point where they are not only truly affordable but also cost effective to get as I would prefer to get one around 750 watts in power so that their is always plenty of electric motor reserve demand power on tap if needed also as well along with a powerful decent sized higher current controller and something like a King Meter larger sized bicycle computer graphics screen with one or two programmable custom power presets; now I don't quite nearly see that many branded name direct drive electric hub drive motor e-bike conversion kits especially ones with brand name reputable two year direct drive electric hub drive motor product warranties in particular versus the more universal non-branded name direct drive electric electric motor e-bike conversion kits it would seem; I have also potentially looked at RadBikes also as well but they unfortunately also only have a single chain ring in the front which only allows one to have a rather limited selection of higher set of range gears and no selection at all for lower set of range of gears; so that also does not appear to be an ideal effective custom e-bike choice also as well either; so here I am at a crossroads torn between having to make some rather limited effective e-bike conversion choices similar to what Liz was stating previously; is it actually possible to roll and build oneself a custom e-bike and hopefully still save some money in the process; to directly reinvest those savings into getting a somewhat larger higher 48 to 52V 28ah capacity lithium ion battery for $599 from EM3EV; which according to the e-bike forums is tops in battery pricing, battery performance and battery capacity for the money; now if that can all be done cost effectively that would be a really great custom e-bike alternative solution indeed.

potato salad
2 weeks ago

I've had a 3.0 for just over a month now - done nearly 600k.

The motor is beautiful, especially when it has been set with a top speed of 45k. Mine developed a little squeal early on, but the dealer told me to put some miles on it, and it has gone away.

I was wondering how the gearing on the 3.0 would go at 45k, as specialised designed it for a 32kmh motor. The 3.0 has a 40t at the front - the 5.0/6.0 which are the designated 45km/h models have a 48 tooth chainring. The around town and bike path riding I've done means I don't have need to push much faster than 40km/h, so the existing gearing is perfect.

I've wound it up to 48km/h on the flat, and that was at full stretch. I can't imagine being limited to 25 or 32km/h. Useful speed for dense urban area I suppose, but this bike loves to stretch its legs and seems to almost sing as it goes faster and faster.

The 47mm trigger sport reflect tires are suprisingly fast, but looks bloody silly. I'm not brave enough to really lean into the curves, so don't know their limits. At some point I will try 50mm schwalbe big apples or bens or marathon supremes (the 6.0 use a 51mm tire so should be room).

Brakes are a little underwhelming. I am heavy and feel they are just good enough, but no more. They have a soft feel and need a lot of squeezing to dump high speeds. My mass is the issue of course: gotta take a lot to stop a lot of gut when it's near escape velocity.

The lack of shift detection on the Brose is a thing. Bosch is clearly superior and in use much faster and easier to flick through the gears. On the Vado I'm not afraid to admit that I'm a rookie rider and spent weeks mashing the gears to smithereens. I've improved, but still bang out poor changes with regularity. Mostly it's just learning how long the brose will keep supplying power after you stop peddelling - there's a 3rd of a second or so where the power continues and will cause the gears to graunch if you shift too early. I wonder if this response time will improve with later firmware.

My clock resets to 6:00am every time the system is powered on - no word yet on what the distributor wants to do about it.

Meno Passini
2 months ago

If only it was Mid drive, how about an E Rad Bafang option? Bafang HD w/ bigger brakes.

Gabriel Chirita
2 months ago

Extremelly bad experience with Theo fatbike. The bike was improperly mounted by them. Cables were either loose or too tight. I had to readjust the cables for the brakes. Two weeks after the purchase, the plug of the cable connecting the motor to the throttle broke. They refused to replace it on the pretext that we “ripped it off”. so we had to go to another bike shop where they also discovered that the caliper is defective. We needed to have replaced the caliper and the pad that it was tainted by oil because of faulty caliper. Theo fatbike agreed to replace the caliper but not the pad, even if it was unusable.
My opinion is that they don't know anything at all about repairing bikes and that they just assemble them.
Customer service is very bad! We had to call them several times and go several times to their shop. This new start-up has no idea how to do business.

daMacroGuy
3 months ago

I personally never cared much for the look of fat bikes, but I could definitely see myself using this as a daily commuter. Sweet looking bike and the price is right too.

IAMSatisfied
4 months ago

It looks like the rear rack slopes back, as if it was designed for a standard, unsprung fork... It'd be really nice if they'd make an equally sturdy rear rack for use with a suspension fork.

David Smrž
4 months ago

Fantastic video!

payasofeo69
4 months ago

Ok I've watch probably too many of your videos ;-)
I'm really close to purchasing a Teo S because they are in my hometown.
Here's my concerns... They are not a bike shop, it's a side business for fun.
Since I have zero knowledge about what's quality and not on a bike AND I'm no good at maintaining it I'm a bit scared to put 2k in this.
Would love your feedback please.

Miata Red
4 months ago

payasofeo69 Read the comments on the forum, watch this video review again. They are all positive. I'm in Toronto and drove to Montreal to pick it up, also to get a sense of the business. I'm sure they will take care of you during warranty, and you're IN Montréal. After that we'll... who knows, but since it's built from typical bike components, any local bike shop can maintain it.

Or, pay a whole lot of money right away and buy a similar E-bike from a local bike shop, expect to pay at least $1000 more for anything similar.

Chet Kuhn
4 months ago

Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I felt compelled to chime in. Let me preface this by saying that I LOVE your reviews. Absolutely love the time and attention you put into this. So thank you for that.

But 41 minutes??? Are you trying to win a bet or something?

Sketti Boi
4 months ago

Hi, That's the second time i remember you saying the usb port is "probably 5 volts".
I just wanted to offer my broad (but not all knowing) experience and say as far as i know all usb ports in any application are 5 volts.
its the available current (amps) per port that can vary depending on the electronics driving it. I have seen ports listed in various devices technical specs as 5.0, 5.1, or 5.2 volts. these are all still 5 volts rating and every usb device i know of will be fine with even 5.2 volts but I'm sure the manufacturer will list these true ratings to cover themselves in case a device ever has issues say because of a 5.2 volt rating.

Sketti Boi
4 months ago

p.s. liking the reviews. the Felt Bruhaul is my new favorite and i would seriously like to test one with a big load up a decent hill but it looks like Queensland and Australia in Particular are way behind with range and availability compared to the U.S. and europe.
I'm pretty much resolved to not re-register my car next year and a big cargo capable ebike would be just the ticket looking into the future. ☺

actnowone
4 months ago

Another great review, like the fact you also have people like Patrick and Mike giving their input into the reviews and some of the people you meet on your travels.

Man you put some work into you're channel and on the website, its all very impressive I just don't know how you do it, is there just you or do you have some freelancers helping you?

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Glad you're enjoying it, I put myself out there making new friends and trying to get an honest perspective while also digging into the details and providing my own insights and such. I do the traveling, filming, photos, writing, comments, and am a big part of the design of EBR but a few years ago I brought on a part time developer friend to help handle the traffic and security issues. I also hired a part time moderator friend to keep the forums a safe and friendly place. And... just the other day, got Mikey's help on the Felt Tote'm review, and I think he might do more in the future :)

Jared Oelderink-Wale
4 months ago

you know you want to come to new zealand

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Oh yeah, I'd love to visit, looks like an amazing part of the world :D

Shoe Salesman Of The Year 1992
4 months ago

I thought they were talking about the Pro Wrestler Chris Benoit at first. Ha

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Ha! Yeah, I haven't met this Benoit but we have spoken via email recently, he's going to confirm the US price because I may have quoted Canadian dollars vs. USD and I don't know shipping

Steve Donovan
4 months ago

Very good review Court. I thought I'd suggest a point to consider if you haven't already. You've referenced pedal assist delay emphasizing the number of magnetic sensors. I have a Bafang BBS02 middrive and the manufacturer has released the software to change the parameters of the controller, at least for the enthusiast community in the US.

Keeping in mind this motor has 12 sensors... One setting in the software is for Pedal Sensor Type and most people set this for DoubleSignal-24. Another setting is for StartDegree(Signal No.) and this is where it gets interesting. I first experimented with setting no.1 and it was ridiculous because all I would do is barely move the pedals and the assist would kick in. It was too immediate as to be practical and possibly even a danger. I now have it at 6 and that's pretty much perfect for me, I move the pedal about a quarter rotation and the assist starts.

There are numerous other settings in this software way beyond the LCD display options but my point is to emphasize that it appears the amount of magnets isn't the primary factor having the greatest influence when the motor will initiate, or for that matter given the software, when it stops.

Steve Donovan
4 months ago

I suppose it would be great to have the software for all motor brands but only Bafang has released it and only because some here finally convinced them, which was not easy from what I've read. I think we also void the warranty ;) So Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc. don't do it. For Bafang middrive users they can easily Google it, it's easy to find.

I actually wonder if it makes that much of a difference whether 6 magnets or 12 because if software can require just one signal, then it appears a mere 30-degree turn of the sprocket will initiate the motor. With the software Bafang uses it's possible it may even double-space the magnetic signals in which a 15-degree turn is all that's necessary. Anyway it's probably reasonable to assume the software from the other manufacturers plays a HUGE role manipulating the mechanical input.

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Hmm, this is very interesting! Great to receive this advanced feedback about the software control. How do you get that app and use it on your bike? I may continue to describe my qualitative experience with different torque sensors but having a resource to point people towards would be nice, so they can dig in and find their own sweet-spot as you have :)

Arnold Winters
4 months ago

Patrick is very nice.

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Yeah, he's a warm fellow, very generous and friendly, wish we'd had more time but I was late tot he ferry :/

cresshead
4 months ago

really enjoyed this video...great work...nice people and landscape...well done....more please!

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Awesome! Thanks, it takes a whole day to do an adventure+review like this but I try to mix them in when it makes sense. Lots of times I am just meeting with a rep or a shop, and even then, I like to bring them in to provide insights or just go somewhere different together. Got a fun one coming up with the OHM Mountain model like this :D

James Mason
4 months ago

72 lbs I never get that up my stairs

Miata Red
4 months ago

Patrick Simpson. Make sure you wipe those big tires clean first or you'll have a very muddy stairwell 😄

Patrick Simpson
4 months ago

I use the walk mode to get it up my stairs. It really isn't a problem. Walk mode provides the power and I just guide it up the stairs.

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Yeah... the large size with the fenders and rack is quite heavy ;)

Gene Coppola
4 months ago

Been watching you for awhile now, you do a very nice job...The EB market has gotten so big and you help simplify the research for us..Thanks.

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Awesome, thanks Gene! I do my best to provide consistency and some powerful filtering tools back at the site. I'm always open to feedback and suggestions though ;)

D Danilo
4 months ago

For anyone who has had doubts, just watch this video again. Court really DOES go the extra mile for us! Excellent review...great onboard experience both on and off road. Who could ask for more?

Miata Red
4 months ago

I suspect Court has more than 2 arms 😊 how does he ride, talk and record all at the same time. He is talented.

Patrick Simpson
4 months ago

Court does a great job. Watching him in action, I see how much depth of information and detail he puts into his reviews. Court is a first class journalist and reviewer, extremely dedicated, and NOT afraid of hard work. I'm not surprised that his reviews are first rate.

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Thanks so much, days like this can be long and a bit stressful because I don't want to get kidnapped, have my camera break, miss the ferry (oops!) or get hurt far, far, far away from my family and friends... but I'm healthy and have a positive attitude, I appreciate that Patrick opened his home up to me :)

Joseph Smith
4 months ago

A ferry boat ride, cool little town, happy ebike owner and great review. The reviews just keep getting better. This ebike hits a nice sweet spot for features and price. Will it be available in the USA and is there an English version of the web site?

Joseph Smith
4 months ago

Yes the link worked, thank you.

Patrick Simpson
4 months ago

or just click on the little flag thingy at the top left of the page. Converts to English. :)

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

Hi Joseph, I believe it is available in the USA and the Téo website does have a language converter. Try this link: https://teofatbike.com/boutique/en/teo-s-c83/

lonestartex1
4 months ago

Is there a US seller for these bikes? I've seen many variations of this bike.

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

I think they are shipped from Canada, double checking on the price and shipping costs to update the written review now. I should have asked this before filming, sorry :/

blitz boy
4 months ago

Would u rather buy this fat bike or a rad rover for your first ebike?

ElectricBikeReview.com
4 months ago

It all depends, I like the extras available here and feel that Benoit is a nice fellow who is very responsive via email. Just having the size options could make the deal depending on your height... and I like the color choices too