Haibike XDURO AMT RX Review

Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Electric Bike Review 1
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Bosch Centerdrive And Ses
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Bosch Powerpack 400 Battery
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Intuvia Lcd Display Panel
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Crank Brothers Kronolog Dropper Post
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Fox 32 Talas Suspension Fork Ctd
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Fox Float Ctd Rear Suspension
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Schwalbe Hans Dampf 27 5
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Shimano Deore M615 203 Mm Disc Brake
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Xlc Sport Grips Locking
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Stock 1
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Electric Bike Review 1
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Bosch Centerdrive And Ses
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Bosch Powerpack 400 Battery
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Intuvia Lcd Display Panel
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Crank Brothers Kronolog Dropper Post
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Fox 32 Talas Suspension Fork Ctd
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Fox Float Ctd Rear Suspension
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Schwalbe Hans Dampf 27 5
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Shimano Deore M615 203 Mm Disc Brake
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Xlc Sport Grips Locking
Haibike Xduro Amt Rx Stock 1

Summary

  • A high performance all-mountain electric bike with premium suspension from Fox and hydraulic disc brakes from Shimano
  • Thru axles on front and rear wheel for improved stiffness and durability, seat post dropper for seamless body position changes - transitioning from climbing (high) to descending over bumps (low)
  • Excellent weight distribution with low unsprung weight, removable battery and display panel for easy transport and charging, quick release wheels front and rear for quick maintenance, industry-leading warranty and support

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Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

Haibike

Model:

XDURO AMT RX

Price:

$6,350 USD

Body Position:

Forward

Suggested Use:

Trail, Mountain

Electric Bike Class:

Pedal Assist (Class 1)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

5 Year Frame, 2 Year Motor and Battery

Availability:

United States

Model Year:

20142015

Bicycle Details

Total Weight:

49.2 lbs (22.31 kg)

Battery Weight:

5.5 lbs (2.49 kg)

Motor Weight:

8.8 lbs (3.99 kg)

Frame Material:

6061 Aluminum Alloy, Hydroformed Tubes, Gravity Casting Interface

Frame Sizes:

16 in (40.64 cm)17 in (43.18 cm)18 in (45.72 cm)20 in (50.8 cm)

Frame Types:

High-Step

Frame Colors:

Aluminum with Matte Lime and Gray Accents

Frame Fork Details:

Fox 32 Talas Suspension with 120 to 150 mm Travel and CTD (Climb, Trail, Descend Adjust)

Frame Rear Details:

Fox Float Suspension with 150 mm Travel and CTD (Climb, Trail, Descend Adjust)

Gearing Details:

10 Speed 1x10 Shimano Deore XT M 786 Shadow Plus, 11-36T

Shifter Details:

Shimano SLX M 670, Rapidfire, I-Spec, on Right Bar

Cranks:

The Hive, Exalite R Forged Aluminum Alloy, 18 Tooth Chainring

Pedals:

XLC Aluminum Alloy Platform

Headset:

FSA No. 57, Semi-Integrated, Tapered

Stem:

XDURO Aluminum Alloy, Ahead

Handlebar:

XDURO Lowriser Aluminum Alloy

Brake Details:

Shimano Deore M615 Hydraulic Disc with 203 mm Front Rotor and 180 mm Rear Rotor, Shimano M615 Levers

Grips:

XLC Sport with Locking Rings, Flat Rubber

Saddle:

XDURO Light MTB

Seat Post:

Crank Brothers Kronolog with Remote Drop on Left Bar (125 mm Travel)

Seat Post Length:

405 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

31.6 mm

Rims:

DT Swiss 466d, Double Wall

Spokes:

DT Swiss Industry 2.0 mm

Tire Brand:

Schwalbe Hans Dampf PSC, 27.5" x 2.25"

Wheel Sizes:

27.5 in (69.85cm)

Tire Details:

Foldable

Tube Details:

Presta Valve

Accessories:

Aluminum Alloy Chain Guide, Sprocket Equalizing System (S.E.S.) Tensioner

Other:

Quick Release Wheels (Front and Rear), Locking Removable Battery Pack with LED Charge Level Indicator, Shimano HG 54 Chain, XLC EVO Hubs with 15 mm Thru Axle Front and 142/ 12 Axle Rear

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

Bosch Gen 2

Motor Type:

Mid-Mounted Geared Motor
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

350 watts

Motor Torque:

60 Newton meters

Battery Brand:

Samsung

Battery Voltage:

36 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

11 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

396 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

3.5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

25 miles (40 km)

Estimated Max Range:

60 miles (97 km)

Display Type:

Intuvia, Removable Backlit Grayscale LCD

Readouts:

Speed, 4 Assist Levels, Battery Voltage, Odometer, Estimated Range, Clock, Max Speed, Average Speed, Trip Time

Display Accessories:

Independent Button Pad with Tactile Feedback

Drive Mode:

Advanced Pedal Assist (Combined Torque, Cadence and Speed), (Eco 50%, Tour 120%, Sport 190%, Turbo 275%)

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph)

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Written Review

The Haibike AMT RX is an “all mountain” full suspension electric bike with Bosch drive systems that are capable of powerful ascents and impressive range. It’s a step up from the Haibike FSRX which also offers full suspension but doesn’t include the CTD (climb, trail, descend) adjust from Fox, opting instead for a simple remote lockout. Haibike is a premium bicycle brand from Europe that has fully embraced electric assist and it really shows on their frame designs. You’ve got a 6061 aluminum alloy frame here with a tapered head tube and four bar linkage system on the rear swing arm to reduce bob but maintain traction over rough terrain. There is very little unsprung weight thanks to the well positioned centerdrive motor and downtube battery pack. Several upgrades caught my attention and performed well during my ride tests including a Crank Brothers Kronolog seat post with 125 mm of travel and remote drop switch on the right bar, oversized Shimano Deore hydraulic disc brakes with 203 mm front and 180 mm rear rotors and a fancy sprocket equalizing system that elevates the chain and reduces kickback over rough terrain. The front sprocket also includes an aluminum guide to reduce chain drops and the teeth alternate from narrow to wide. This “NW” tooth pattern reduces chain slip and overall, the bike and drive system feel extremely fast and responsive. The top assisted speed is 20 mph and the cutout is smooth and natural feeling.

Driving this bike is a 350 watt geared mid-drive motor from Bosch. It offers 60 newton meters of torque and responds to the rear wheel speed, pedal cadence and pedal torque to switch on and off. While many other mid mounted electric bike motors use traditional sized sprockets, Bosch systems use smaller chainrings that rotate about 2.5x for every pedal stroke. This allows the motor to operate at a higher RPM and gain a mechanical advantage while pulling the chain. These front sprockets come in three sizes including 18T, 19T and 20T which the bicycle manufacturer actually producing the sprocket (which is how Haibike was able to do the narrow wide thing with the teeth) and the XDURO AMT RX has opted for the off-road chainring size with 18T for the most leverage. As shown in the video, at higher RPMs there is a distinct whining noise produced by the motor but that is somewhat masked by the sound of your tires rolling over dirt, sticks and rocks off-road. Note that I was in the highest level of assist for most of my ride tests. The outer casing on the motor is purely aesthetic and designed to protect the metal-encased drive which bolts directly to the motor plate (joining the downtube, seat tube and chain stays).

Powering the AMT RX is a Bosch Powerpack 400 battery pack that resides just above the motor, mounted to the downtube. It’s positioned well for both weight distribution and protection in the event of a crash and is removable for transporting or charging off of the frame. You get 36 volts of power and 11 amp hours of capacity here which is a touch above average in terms of size but the way this power is used and the quality of the cells inside is quite impressive. The cells are made by Samsung and consist of a Lithium-ion chemistry designed to be light weight and long lasting. The pack only weighs ~5.5 lbs so you could conceivably buy a spare and toss it into a backpack… the charger only weighs ~1.5 lbs and is fairly small as well so brining it along would be easier and much less expensive than buying a second battery. I like that the pack has an LED readout on the side for showing your current battery level (handy if you’ve got the pack inside and can’t remember if it has already been charged) and that it includes an ABUS locking core for security. The pack also has a sort of built in handle that makes it easier to carry around, dropping it could crack the case and potentially damage the connections inside. To really care for this pack and help it reach 1,000+ charge cycles I recommend storing in a cool, dry environment and maintaining a 20% to 80% fill at all times. If you haven’t used the bike in several months, top off the battery.

Operating this ebike is very intuitive and comfortable, even while riding, because there’s a large adjustable LCD display mounted the center of the handlebar as well as an independent button pad mounted near the left grip. Once the battery is charged and connected to the frame mount you simply press the power button at the lower left corner of the Intuivia display panel and it comes to life. This display is backlit for use at dusk or dawn (you can turn the light on with the bulb switch at the lower right corner of the display) and it is also completely removable for storage and protection off of the bike… just make sure the set-screw isn’t installed (this is designed for security to make the display more permanent). All of the plastic buttons on the display and button pad produce a light “click” when activated which provides a bit of confirmation while riding (if you can’t look down at the display) and they have tested well for me in wet conditions. The Intuvia display panel actually uses its own small battery and can be switched on even while not mounted to the bike. When it is attached however, the display charges off of the main battery pack. Near the top right corner of the display there’s a micro USB port (under a rubber flap) that is used for firmware updates and off-bike charging. This port may also be used while the display is mounted to the frame for charging your portable electronics like an MP3 player or smart phone but does have limited voltage (500 ma at 5 volts). So the basics of operation here are on/off and up/down to navigate through four levels of assist. The highest level offers the most power for climbing and speed but uses significantly more power. I find myself using the two lowest levels of assist most frequently and have been able to reach 50+ miles per charge on relatively flat, smooth terrain. In addition to pedal assist, there is also a “zero” mode which lets the bike ride without power while still keeping the display on like a traditional cycle computer. There are several different readouts that the display can show if you press the little “i” icon including trip distance, max speed and range (among others). I like range because it actually calculates your “estimated range” on the fly using the remaining battery level and your current assist setting as input.

There are many Haibikes to choose from but the AMT RX and FSRX are my two favorites because they are more affordable and versatile than the others. This thing is capable of downhill riding, cross country or cruising around town thanks to the CTD setting on both suspension elements. It’s relatively light weight at ~49 lbs and the warranty is solid with five years on the frame and two on the motor and battery. I love that the frame comes in four sizes for improved fit and that the wheels offer quick release (for easy transport and maintenance) paired with thru-axles for a stiff and rugged operation. The paint job is pretty cool and the angled top tube makes this bike easier to stand over and handle for shorter riders. My only real complaint is the lack of a water bottle cage mounting point which is common on many full suspension bicycles and especially ebikes. Consider a CamelBak so you don’t get too thirsty out there. For a truly capable off-road electric assist experience, the Haibike XDURO AMT RX is one of the best options available right now.

Pros:

  • High quality air suspension by Fox (front and rear) that are light and rugged with great adjustability (climb, trail, descend CTD on both)
  • Proprietary Sprocket Equalizing System (SES) reduces chain kickback, keeps the chain from slapping the rear stay when riding on rough terrain and reduces drops, the chain itself has teeth that alternate from narrow to wide which helps reduce slipping
  • The hydraulic disc brake rotors are enormous with 203 mm in the front and 180 in the rear for improved leverage, stiffer thru-axle design keeps brakes and wheel aligned under pressure
  • Seat post dropper with remote activation is perfect for on the fly body position adjustment, drop the seat when bombing downhill sections so you can use your legs as shock absorbers then raise it instantly for climbing and spinning on flats
  • Quick release on front and rear wheel makes the bike easier to break down when transporting it in your car and comes in handy for trail maintenance, also makes the bike less intimidating to work on
  • Excellent range thanks to the efficient centerdrive motor that leverages the rear cassette and high performance Lithium-ion 396 watt hour battery
  • Great torque output, this bike can climb very well in Turbo mode when you’re pedaling with a lower gear
  • Battery pack locks to frame for security using a quality ABUS core, it can be charged on or off the frame for convenience or to reduce weight if you’d like to ride this as a normal bicycle, pack also includes an LED charge level indicator
  • Intuitive display panel is large, easy to read and removable – the stand alone button pad is easy to reach without taking your hand off the left grip and “clicks” when pressed for tactile feedback (you don’t have to look down when riding)
  • Stiff cranks, peformance wheelset, decent aluminum alloy XLC platform pedals, rigid frame for good power transfer when riding, tapered head tube for strength
  • Great customer support and warranty from Currie Technologies in the US (part of Accell Group which owns Haibike)
  • Four frame sizes offer better fit for a wider range of riders (40cm, 44cm, 48cm, 52cm)
  • Shift detection helps reduce wear on the chain and sprockets, the bike experiences less mashing and is easier to ride as a result
  • Beautiful paint job, brushed aluminum with fluorescent green and gray accents, all cables and wires are routed through the frame which reduces the potential for snags when riding or hauling this bike

Cons:

  • The battery pack takes up the space where a water bottle cage might otherwise mount and there isn’t one on the seat tube due to the rear suspension setup, consider and aftermarket accessory for the saddle rails or grab a CamelBak
  • No throttle mode, this bike only offers pedal assist (like all Bosch powered systems) but will get a better range than if it did, top speed is limited to 20 mph
  • The brake levers do not include a motor inhibitor but the drive system is more responsive than others I’ve tested so it hasn’t been an issue

Resources:

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Steve
3 years ago

You had it up to 40.6 :) Even if that was metric, still 25.2

Reply
Dan
3 years ago

You mention the USB port on the Bosch system. The USB port on this system doesn’t seem to output any power so the only reason that it is there is to configure the computer. This is usually done at the dealer, but with all adapters I’ve tried, I have not found any way to charge a phone or anything off this.

Reply
Court Rye
3 years ago

Hmm… Bummer! I asked the guys at Haibike who said they checked with Bosch who said “You must uses a micro USB A/B cable which dealers can purchase thru our service providers. The port will deliver 500ma at 5 volts.” I have not tested it myself, I appreciate your input and would love to hear if you do get it working.

Reply
Michael Ott
2 years ago

I’m still bike shopping, and noticed the above comment. Looking at the pictures of a micro USB A/B cable on Amazon, it looks to me just like the cable that comes with any cell phone. If it is, then as long as the unit is turned on, it should be sending some power to your phone. Anyway, my question is related to the lack of a kickstand. Does Currie think that after spending this kind of money for a bike, that we would want to lay it in the dirt? It would also be nice to have some place to mount a fender or rack. If I buy this bike, I’ll be using it on the road, as well as on the trail.

Reply
Court Rye
2 years ago

I think you’re correct but every time I’ve tested one of the Haibikes I haven’t had a cable to test for certain… I’ll keep trying, please let me know if you test it and succeed! Great point about the kickstand, I personally really enjoy having one but a lot of high end mountain bikes just don’t offer it. This is true for all brands, look at some of the high end Santa Cruz, Specialized or Trek bicycles for mountain riding… they just skip the kickstand because it could rattle and will add weight. I see both sides but like to have one for those days I take my bike around town. I purchased a Haibike last year to test the Bosch system out and ended up adding fenders and a rack, they worked alright but sort of twisted or spun if bumped and eventually I just took the front fender off… Here’s a video I shot about the accessories before I really had the chance to test them.

Reply
Neal
2 years ago

I started off with a Radrover electric bike then my friend purchased an HPC Enduro 1300 watt mid drive bike as a special on their website and I was intrigued at the benefits that mid drive provided. At this point I had watched dozens of your videos and read several reviews. I took a trip to Las Vegas again and visited a store specializing in ebikes and ended buying my 2016 Haibike xduro AMT RX mainly on your reviews of Haibikes in general. While in Las Vegas I took the Haibike on the same Redrock Canyon loop I took the Radrover on, and the experience was so much better on the Haibike. I can’t begin to explain how much I love that bike! My friend who purchased the HPC Enduro has even told me how much he prefers the Bosch system to his bike. I think the best feature is the torque sensing ability of the motor. When I go for a ride I typically set the assist to “tour” (2/4 setting) and forget about other settings as 95% of the riding I do is compensated by the torque sensing ability of the Bosch system. The Bosch system seems to read my mind (in a way) and just know what I need. The torque sensing ability combined with cadence provides a “set it and forget it” setting for most of my riding. I also love the full suspension of the Haibike as I have back and neck problems of my own. Both have benefits, but the Haibike is in a class of its own.

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Johnny
3 days ago

Awesome - thanks for the incredible write up. You've convinced me to steer clear of the yamaha drives for the time being. Which of course means that I would need to step up to a Xduro treekking for significant more money.

Local dealer just called and offered a 2017 Haibiki Xduro Trekking S (bosch speed powered) for $3200. Hmm ... I think I might be able to do a tad better if I wait a bit longer ..

Still very much worried about buying the IZIP via remote dealer, having an issue and then being stranded without local dealer support. Even though the price is very attractive. It seems like even if I don't buy the IZIP from the local dealer, they may still be able to / obligated to help with IZIP warranty work? The Xduro 5.0 sure is tempting, but it a bit overkill for my current needs.

Anybody knows where the op got this deal ? I think $3200 is a good deal for 2017 Xduro Trekking S (especially if it is otd).

I am leaning towards 2017 Xduro fullseven though and if there is a similar offer I really would love to get one(I actually would get trekking S if it is possible to take it to the trails too).

Mark Peralta
4 days ago

I used the Nuvinci + Bosch Performance combo for a month (replacement bike) and have also used the Bosch Performance drive with a cassette when I swapped e-bikes for a weekend with a colleague. Both e-bikes were 28mph iterations. The N380 bike was a Swiss made Flyer, whereas the 'cassette bike' was a Haibike Trekking Xduro S 5.0.

To answer your question, the cassette has a wider range of gears. I'll spare you the ratio math and simply narrate my experience. With the Nuvinci N380 I had trouble climbing hills above 12% grade and I even managed to stall a couple of times around 15% grade. With the cassette driven Haibike, I climbed an average 18% grade hill containing a short but steeper 22% grade section. It was tough but still doable. I weigh 220 pounds and am moderately fit.

I could not tell you exactly at what percentage grade you will start having trouble with the N380 because that depends on your fitness level and weight. But if you frequently need to climb hills above 12%, I would recommend staying with the cassette. Otherwise the N380 iteration will be more a lot more fun to ride.

A tip if you get the N380: you can easily shift to a lower gear ratio under load going uphill. But it's sometimes more difficult to twist 'to a higher gear' when gaining speed. The trick is to back off pedalling for a second whilst you shift. It makes the experience a lot easier on the hands if you tend to get blisters. This was the main issue I encountered.
If the chain ring is 3 speed just like what Yamaha uses on their ebikes, then using a nuvinci would be adequate even on steeper hills. Unfortunately, Bosch only uses single chain ring and the trend for nuvinci is to use belt drive, eliminating the feasibility of multiple speed chain ring.

JayVee
4 days ago

All other things being equal, which would be the better hill climber and to what degree is the difference? I'm referring to the Super Commuter 8 which has a rear cassette assembly, vs the Super Commuter 9 which has the Nuvinci internal gears. I guess I'm asking which has the lowest gear, or are they equal?
Thanks,
Rich

I used the Nuvinci + Bosch Performance combo for a month (replacement bike) and have also used the Bosch Performance drive with a cassette when I swapped e-bikes for a weekend with a colleague. Both e-bikes were 28mph iterations. The N380 bike was a Swiss made Flyer, whereas the 'cassette bike' was a Haibike Trekking Xduro S 5.0.

To answer your question, the cassette has a wider range of gears. I'll spare you the ratio math and simply narrate my experience. With the Nuvinci N380 I had trouble climbing hills above 12% grade and I even managed to stall a couple of times around 15% grade. With the cassette driven Haibike, I climbed an average 18% grade hill containing a short but steeper 22% grade section. It was tough but still doable. I weigh 220 pounds and am moderately fit.

I could not tell you exactly at what percentage grade you will start having trouble with the N380 because that depends on your fitness level and weight. But if you frequently need to climb hills above 12%, I would recommend staying with the cassette. Otherwise the N380 iteration will be more a lot more fun to ride.

A tip if you get the N380: you can easily shift to a lower gear ratio under load going uphill. But it's sometimes more difficult to twist 'to a higher gear' when gaining speed. The trick is to back off pedalling for a second whilst you shift. It makes the experience a lot easier on the hands if you tend to get blisters. This was the main issue I encountered.

JayVee
4 days ago

Just a comment for those looking to understand Haibike Trekking frame sizes. I have the Trekking Sduro S 6.0 which has the same frame as the Bosch powered Trekking Xduro 5.0 from what I can see. It is however different to the 4.0 as explained by Ravi above.

An addition to what I said earlier in this thread. I have size S (52) but there are 2 additional spacers above the stem. I'm pretty sure that they were added by the shop where I bought the bike. This raises the handlebar height by about 3 cms. I measure 1m82-83.

tallpaul
4 days ago

Appreciate the FS as our streets can be as harsh as the trails!
With Haibikes it used to be XDuro meant Bosch and Sduro meant Yamaha, but this year that is not the case. Not sure how bikes are fitted with levels of components, you gotta do your homework with research and test drives.

Johnny
4 days ago

The Bosch Performance Line models will give max speed of 28mph assist, the CX models are limited to 20mph.
Haibikes choice of names and model numbers for their bikes is confusing, and seems to have changed this year to add to the confusion.
But that are beautifully made machines. The welds, fittings, and overall design are top notch.
And I have to agree with you about the cost of the batteries! but then again I don't know what goes into the making of the batteries, but still, almost $1000 for a 500w is a lot of $$$$.

Is there a difference other than Bosch motor instead of Yamaha between Xduro and Sduro lines(like better frame , components etc?).

Should I go for hard tail or Full suspension ? I am also thinking of riding the bike on trails but then how will the commute be with FS ?

bob armani
4 days ago

......last years models....

I'm with Rich c above, Haibikes are very well sorted out. I have the Bosch but I think the Yamaha is pretty similar, maybe a bit more punch but not as smooth response.... again, I have the Bosch and only know about the Yamaha from what I have read.
The "symbiotic" relationship you develop between the motor and its sensors (torque, speed and cadence read about 1000 times a second, and your selection of gears, and your pedal power, make for a truly well balanced experience.You get as much exercise as you want plus help up those long hills. 30 mile commutes are well within the range of the Bosch with the 500 watt battery. I have the 400 watt battery and can easily do 30 miles on it, including some good sized hills, and usually headwinds.
Depending on what shape you are in you will more then likely find that turning the motor off will take a lot of pedal power seeing as the bikes usually weigh in at around 50+ lbs. I usually keep it in ECO mode for flat and mild terrain. In ECO I could probably get 75 miles if there was no wind and little if no hills!
Haibike mtb's are fine for the street. I have the Full Seven with the 28 mph Bosch. It eats up the bumps, which I appreciate as I am an older guy and don't care for jarring rides.
Suggest you find a dealer and take a few out for a test ride.

Hey Tallpaul- Just curious, if you were referring to the '2018 Haibike XDURO XTREME 28MPH Full Seven S 9.0 Electric Bike eMTB Full Suspension Soft Tail' ? I would have liked to see a smaller more integrated motor on that model IMHO. I did not know Bosch made a 350 watt 28mph. Is that new for this year? Ride safe!

Johnny
5 days ago

@Dewey: Again thanks for the info, I didn't know that Giant customized their motors. Again when I was looking into the specifications I did not see much information about the motor. It seems Explore uses a version that is speed limited to 20, yet I see 28 mph version of the same "sport " model.

I'm a huge Haibike fan, I own two 2016 bikes. A Full Seven XDURO S RX mtb, and a Trekking XDURO S RX. Both are speed versions, 28mph, both are Bosch. You get a little noise from the Bosch mid drive (as compared to the Brose for example), but it's so smooth in handling power and torque. Personally, I feel the Bosch is worth every penny. If you ride many hills, you'll appreciate the 28mph bikes. When riding a 20mph bike, you go over that coming down the grade. But when you get to that 20mph setting as you level out, you can feel it hunt between assist and no assist. With the 28mph, you just don't hit that annoyance. Right now is the perfect time to buy a Haibike. I bought one in November 2016 and the other in March 2017. Both highly discounted from MSRP.

Thanks for the response, so you advise going for a 2017 x duro instead of an sduro ? I realize that for some models they did not state the maxspeed but should I assume that it is 28mph if the system is 350w Bosch CX ?
I think at some place that Bosch system will not accept other battery packs (and I see that Bosch insanely overprices their packs ) is it still the case?

I should find a shop and test these models.

rich c
5 days ago

I'm a huge Haibike fan, I own two 2016 bikes. A Full Seven XDURO S RX mtb, and a Trekking XDURO S RX. Both are speed versions, 28mph, both are Bosch. You get a little noise from the Bosch mid drive (as compared to the Brose for example), but it's so smooth in handling power and torque. Personally, I feel the Bosch is worth every penny. If you ride many hills, you'll appreciate the 28mph bikes. When riding a 20mph bike, you go over that coming down the grade. But when you get to that 20mph setting as you level out, you can feel it hunt between assist and no assist. With the 28mph, you just don't hit that annoyance. Right now is the perfect time to buy a Haibike. I bought one in November 2016 and the other in March 2017. Both highly discounted from MSRP.

hurricane56
1 week ago

Awesome - thanks for the incredible write up. You've convinced me to steer clear of the yamaha drives for the time being. Which of course means that I would need to step up to a Xduro treekking for significant more money.

Local dealer just called and offered a 2017 Haibiki Xduro Trekking S (bosch speed powered) for $3200. Hmm ... I think I might be able to do a tad better if I wait a bit longer ..

Still very much worried about buying the IZIP via remote dealer, having an issue and then being stranded without local dealer support. Even though the price is very attractive. It seems like even if I don't buy the IZIP from the local dealer, they may still be able to / obligated to help with IZIP warranty work? The Xduro 5.0 sure is tempting, but it a bit overkill for my current needs.

The service portion is something you'll need to check with the iZip. Just as an example, my friend with a Bulls bike had to pay the LBS a diagnostic fee to initiate a warranty claim on his Bosch powerpack 400. He did not buy the bike at the LBS. This is the one grey zone with many ebike service experiences, it probably varies widely amongst manufacturer and LBS. Even my local dealer where I purchased the bike from has to charge for labor on a warranty parts replacement. The last time I had a repair done they were kind enough to waive the fee, but were upfront about disclosing that before work commenced. I'm guessing Haibike does not compensate the LBS for their time. If you do inquire with the iZip people, you'll also want to ask if the TransX takes software updates and if that would result in a dealer service fee as well.

Ravi Kempaiah
1 week ago

My bike is powered by Bosch Performance Line. Seems you all have gotten many more miles on your chain.
I didn't have any issues with the chain and derailleur but constant noise from the chain when pedaling. At first I would clean and lube the chain and it would quiet down but after maybe 50 miles or so it would be noisy again. Switched from dry lube to ChainL with the same results. And the last attempt or so to lube and quiet the chain was unsuccessful, still noisy after the lube.
While in the shop for the new chain the Sprocket Equalizing System (S.E.S) bearing was replaced as it exhibited some binding as it rotated. It was replaced with an upgraded ceramic bearing.
I would say my riding is not severe at all, mostly smooth paved bike paths and an occasional stretch of dirt path.
I do try to keep the bike and all its running gear clean and well lubed. I hope this eBike specific chain will outlast the original Shimano.

Have you cleaned the complete drive train?
Like the chaining, cassette, derailleur etc.

I am amazed that people get less than 1000 miles on their chain. I don't do off-road stuff but mostly on-road. Chicago winters are harsh and in the last 14 months, I put ~5000 miles on my Xduro Trekking Speed bike and had to replace the chain only around 4000 miles. Granted, I never the use Turbo, 99% Tour mode and I clean and lube the drive train every 250 miles.

Bryan995
1 week ago

1. The drive has a tendency to resist your efforts above a certain RPM level, and the cadence window in which it provides power is pretty limited. This is perceptible in Standard mode, and painfully perceptible in ECO and ECO+ modes.

This has several consequences:

- If you want to tour around in a hilly area, you need to be really fit with the Yamaha. I use ECO mode only when absolutely needed. The Bosch and Shimano ECO modes are infinitely easier on the knees.

- If you want to climb a hill, the lowest gears might not necessarily be the best gears. If you're spinning away in 1st gear you will quickly hit a cadence where power drops off. This means you'll need to shift up a gear or two to get power. But it also means that climbing will be more difficult on the knees (once again). I climb a 7% grade incline every day and the bike is in 8th or 9th gear (meaning, 2-3 gears away from 11 teeth). I hand't noticed this until someone remarked that I was climbing in a really high gear. Might explain why my knees ache sometimes...

- Because the cadence is limited, the bike requires an inordinate number of gear shifts in traffic. Think of a scenario where you have several consecutive red lights. After the first red light goes green, I need to shift up 6 times to reach cruising speed. But as soon as I reach cruising speed, I have to shift down several times as well. And start over at each red light. Other drives, like the Bosch or the Shimano have a more intelligent way of dealing with this. Start in 1st gear and shift into second or third gear, then increase the number of RPMs instead of shifting through all the gears. You'll get just as much power and won't constantly be changing gears.

2. The engineering on some of the parts isn't up to Yamaha standards.

- The remote is fastened by screws which “bite” into the plastic casing. The result is that it’s impossible to tighten them so that the remote doesn’t swivel around the handlebars. This means that it’s nearly impossible to walk the bike up a hill using RUN mode. Press on the RUN button and the remote simply swivels out of your hand.

-The bike’s remote is designed in such a manner that you have to take your right hand off the handlebars in order to switch to another level of assist. But the remote often slips away...

- The button to power on the bike is starting to fail. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

- The diagnostic button on the battery sometimes doesn't work.

3. Although not directly Yamaha's fault, the lighting on many Trekking Sduros is not sufficient for riding in the countryside at night. I have a Trekking Sduro S 6.0 which has a 60 lux light. When riding in the forest at night I can't see the contours of the road ahead. This is because the projected beam is too narrow and the lights not powerful enough.

So, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy a Yamaha powered bike. This is particularly true of the older PW drive system, which still equips most SDUROs.

Awesome - thanks for the incredible write up. You've convinced me to steer clear of the yamaha drives for the time being. Which of course means that I would need to step up to a Xduro treekking for significant more money.

Local dealer just called and offered a 2017 Haibiki Xduro Trekking S (bosch speed powered) for $3200. Hmm ... I think I might be able to do a tad better if I wait a bit longer ..

Still very much worried about buying the IZIP via remote dealer, having an issue and then being stranded without local dealer support. Even though the price is very attractive. It seems like even if I don't buy the IZIP from the local dealer, they may still be able to / obligated to help with IZIP warranty work? The Xduro 5.0 sure is tempting, but it a bit overkill for my current needs.

hurricane56
1 week ago

I was seeing the Xduro prices yesterday of about $3500. Maybe they will come down more. But I like your thinking. If you're testing the waters and think you might upgrade in a few years - and particularly because your commute is shorter - then the IZIP sounds like a great way to go (although I don't have experience with IZIP). It would be nice if you could find a local dealer for that IZIP however. You'd definitely want to test it out.

It’s always a balancing act between waiting for more of a discount and having it now with your preferred frame size. last year the commuter oriented bikes were in stock well past the new year.

Over50
1 week ago

... Will have to call for pricing but I have a feeling the Xduro trekking may be closer to 3k?...
In that case is it worth the 2x price increase over the IZIP? If the haibike will hold its value more so than the IZIP then I have no issue paying a bit more now. But if in 4 years both are down to $500 resale then the IZIP seems like the way to go. Thanks for the help!

I was seeing the Xduro prices yesterday of about $3500. Maybe they will come down more. But I like your thinking. If you're testing the waters and think you might upgrade in a few years - and particularly because your commute is shorter - then the IZIP sounds like a great way to go (although I don't have experience with IZIP). It would be nice if you could find a local dealer for that IZIP however. You'd definitely want to test it out.

rich c
1 week ago

Does your Haibike have a Bosch or Yamaha? 1700 miles on my 2016 Haibike XDURO Full Seven S RX, no chain issues yet.

Bryan995
1 week ago

Just for reference my Trekking S Xduro was $2699 during last years clearance.

As for resale the Haibike might have an edge but seeing resale ads for ebikes here in the SF Bay Area, many bikes are posted for sale at 40-50% off the original sale price after less than a year. I’d recommend buying the bike that fits your needs now and not factor in resale.

Perfect - appreciate that data point. Best I can find for the Sduro trekking 4.0 is $1999, so $700 more for the Xduro seems reasonable. Still need to do a bit more searching around re. best pricing. I am down in SD.

hurricane56
1 week ago

Just for reference my Trekking S Xduro was $2699 during last years clearance.

As for resale the Haibike might have an edge but seeing resale ads for ebikes here in the SF Bay Area, many bikes are posted for sale at 40-50% off the original sale price after less than a year. I’d recommend buying the bike that fits your needs now and not factor in resale.

Bryan995
1 week ago

He asked for other suggestions. I really wouldn't get an Sduro. And I own one... :)

Hmm ... Sounds like the Yamaha Sduro is out then!? IZIP vs Xduro? :)

Bryan995
1 week ago

Actually the poster didn't specify Xduro or Sduro (unless I missed it) but I guess based on the price quoted it has to be Sduro. But both are discounted pretty heavily right now so Xduro would be a good suggestion. Perhaps the prices will come down even more as we get to year end. So the commute sounds very short but with a large hill. The Bosch CX will power up that hill and since the distance is short range will not be an issue.

Yes sorry all. I was refering to the Sduro Trekking 4.0 with Yamaha PW not the Bosch powered Xduro. Everything I read says to go Bosch and it seems like you all echo that :).

Will have to call for pricing but I have a feeling the Xduro trekking may be closer to 3k?

In that case is it worth the 2x price increase over the IZIP? If the haibike will hold its value more so than the IZIP then I have no issue paying a bit more now. But if in 4 years both are down to $500 resale then the IZIP seems like the way to go. Thanks for the help!

Over50
1 week ago

@Over50 owns a Trekking 4.0.

His experiences are described in the thread below:

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/over-50s-2017-xduro-trekking-4-0-chronicles.13845/

Actually the poster didn't specify Xduro or Sduro (unless I missed it) but I guess based on the price quoted it has to be Sduro. But both are discounted pretty heavily right now so Xduro would be a good suggestion. Perhaps the prices will come down even more as we get to year end. So the commute sounds very short but with a large hill. The Bosch CX will power up that hill and since the distance is short range will not be an issue.

JayVee
1 week ago

Poster is asking about SDuro not XDuro .

He asked for other suggestions. I really wouldn't get an Sduro. And I own one... :)

e-boy
1 week ago

Poster is asking about SDuro not XDuro .

e-boy
1 week ago

Poster is asking about SDuro not XDuro .

Potato awa
1 year ago

If you don't mind me asking; Are you secretly Donald Trump's son or where do you get all these bikes from?

Raynald Turner
2 years ago

Years ago , I would call getting a bike like this as being lazy.
But now see, it helps to save time.

Raynald Turner
2 years ago

Kinda like this.

Delta 605
2 years ago

wish i can afford a great ebike like this. but if somebody wants to give me this as a gift.. i'll be more than thankful.

Vicki France
2 years ago

$5500 I just can't even fathom that cost

Anthony Steele
2 years ago

i actually prefer no suspension.. i like to feel the road.

Clive Sheppard
3 years ago

Great review Court!  3 months ago I decided to buy a new mountain bike and thanks to your many excellent reviews and hours of research I decided to buy one of these Haibike XDURO AMT RXs.  I use it out here in the mountains of Romania and I LOVE IT ... it's one awesome bike!  In turbo mode I climb mountains like Lance Armstrong on 'caffeine' and leave people speechless ... I've even been known to overtake cars on steep inclines.  :)   Keep up with the excellent site and thanks for opening my eyes to the joys of e-biking. :D

ForbinColossus
2 years ago

+Clive Sheppard well writ, I say

Emmanuel Bello
3 years ago

What do you mean by paddle assist can you explain a little better to me pls

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+Emmanuel Bello Sure thing Emmanuel, pedal assist is a drive mode that "assists" you with motor power when you "pedal" the bike. Instead of relying solely on some kind of trigger throttle or a twist throttle like a conventional motorcycle, this system measures how quickly you pedal, how hard you push and how fast the bicycle is going (depending on how fancy it is). Many systems just measure whether the pedals are moving forward and send an on/off signal to the motor. These Haibikes however offer all three sensors so the power is very quick and efficient. It's one of the best systems I've tried. Does this help to answer your question?

Sofy Sufiah
3 years ago

B

Sofy Sufiah
3 years ago

Huh?

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+Sofy Lee My Valentine?

David Macdonald
3 years ago

Nice bike

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+David Macdonald Oh yeah, Haibikes are sweet looking and I love the full suspension setup! This is one of my favorites, the FSRX is a bit cheaper if you don't need the super high end components: http://electricbikereview.com/haibike/xduro-fs-rx-27-5/

justcallme MUGO
3 years ago

i have an a volton alation 500 and i dont understand why people buy this bikes to take to the trail it defeats the idea of riding the bike . i use mine for commute so its diffrent

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+Charles Waruinge I feel ya, most of my ebike riding is around town as well. I have used a few mountain style ebikes on paths in Colorado and California and they really reduced the strain on my knees. I've had a couple of skiing and surfing injuries over the years so this was a welcome experience. Not everyone needs the help, I honestly don't "need" the help but it made riding a lot more enjoyable and my knee wasn't throbbing after a 10 mile ride like it normally would be :)

Dmitry Kizyakov
3 years ago

Hey Court I know this is off topic but I found a chinese manufacturer that makes some interesting bikes called ANNAD. They blend in pretty well like E-motion, with a downside that the batteries are in the downtube so they are not easily removable. Much more affordable. Ever heard of it? It's in Hangzhou.

Dmitry Kizyakov
3 years ago

That's one weird looking bike! =)
Annad's design has its downsides but it is so stealth you can't even tell its electric. Batteries are replaceable once you remove the headset I believe.
Cool thing about this manufacturer is when you get a price list you have a choice between multiple bike components from 'entry-level' to 'premium' (forks, brakes, derailleurs etc...).
MOQ is 2 units but they are pretty affordable ($1200-2000usd a piece) compared to most of the bikes you are reviewing. I have concerns about the quality of components though. Just like with anything I heard there are 2 types of big brand products - authentic and knock-offs. Those are probably 2nd...

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+Dmitry Kizyakov I have not Dmitry, thanks for pointing them out! Looks like they use smaller geared motors and conceal the batteries right in the downtube like you said: http://www.annad.net/ I've been excited to see this type of thing for a while now, reminds me of what Faraday has done with their Porteur line: http://electricbikereview.com/faraday/porteur/

Ex13m1
3 years ago

Sduro rx or xduro rx ?

Ex13m1
3 years ago

+ElectricBikeReview.com tnx

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+Ex13m1 I'm not sure, haven't tested an SDURO yet.

jc hg
3 years ago

Great review for a great bike. Sorry about your Grandma.
Spanish dual review would be an incredible idea. Go for it.

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+jc hg Thanks for your well wishes, all is good :)

ForbinColossus
3 years ago

did you notice any difference on this newer bosch generation than your previous one you owned?

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+ForbinColossus I think they are both in the same second generation, it feels just like the other Haibikes I've tried and my experience with Gen 1 from Europe is very limited... but still good, it's a nice system. Here's a bike with the smaller European motor: http://electricbikereview.com/urban-arrow/family/

MotorheadRedo
3 years ago

I just can't get past the initial cost of this bike, plus the cost of maintenance to keep it working. A new lithium battery every 2 to 3 years regardless of how many times it has been recharged, because lithium batteries age. That will probably cost 1k buying it from Haibike. And like the other guys comment about needing to replace the cassette in his human powered mountain bike every year. That is also true with this bike only more so, because of the added force on the cassette, chain and hub provided by the electric motor. Who knows how long this motor and drive will last before something breaks, but I would expect the Bosch to be the most reliable. I like your reviews and video's but I think you need to rate these bikes down for high price tags, but what do I know.

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+MotorheadRedo Thanks for the feedback, the rating score stuff is always difficult because we may have a 10 in terms of technology and design but a price that is unreasonable or based more on style. It's difficult to explain that and some of it is based in opinion. You are correct about battery costs but if you divide a 1,000+ cycle battery by $1,000 and assume a charge cost of ~$0.15 based on current electricity rates, you're getting a vehicle here that can go 50+ miles if it was on relatively flat roads. Compared to most cars that can go ~25 miles per gallon of gas which is at ~$3 right now, the cost of using a bike is ~80% lower (that's if both the bike and car cost the same initially... which is unlikely). Given the design of this bike however, it seems more about fitness and entertainment so the comparison is difficult.

Doug's Ego
3 years ago

Liking that frame shape.

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+Smiling Aussie Completely agree, if I understand correctly, this was built using a design that Specialized patented for the US market but that patent recently ran out. Overall, I just love the Haibike colors and look. The bent top tube is cool and a bit easier to stand over :)

1650million
3 years ago

You bought yourself a $5.000 bike? It sounds like the channel is doing great huh? ;)

TheEdge008
3 years ago

+ElectricBikeReview.com Hi Court, sorry to hear about your Grandma. :( I remember the day I lost my Grandma. It was difficult. They are so special.

At approx 9:50 into the video you warned to people to be careful when standing over the seatpost and clicking on the the dropper because it can rack you... Speaking from experience?

1650million
3 years ago

+ElectricBikeReview.com Wow, I finally got a reply to my "job application"... :D

Nah man, that was (mostly) in jest, I´m actually from Spain, and I live here, so it´s not like we can hang out for coffee and review a couple of bikes later... But hey "boss", if the channel keeps growing to the point you can actually get me a working visa so I can both tour the US and review some cool bikes, I´ll be there so fast the TSA won´t have time to anally probe me... ;)

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+1650million That would be pretty cool! It's a lot of work as a one person setup right now. What part of the country do you live in? Are you a student or what is your life like?

1650million
3 years ago

+ElectricBikeReview.com I´m sick and tired of living in my house, so the idea of moving every month feels incredibly cool, if you ask me. Who knows, maybe when you grow your channel to 500K subs or you can hire me as your Spanish-speaking sidekick so we can make dual-language reviews... :P

Anyway, thanks for the info man, and sorry to hear about your grandma, both my grandmas are still alive, but well into their 90s... :(

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+1650million Yeah! I love bicycles but really don't really have a house to put them... I move and rent month to month, sometimes I live out of my car so I can travel to new cities and see what ebikes are there. I bought the Haibike while staying with my Mom (my Grandma passed away recently so I was there to spend time with her). I got the Haibike and put maybe 200 miles on it total? The furthest I ever went was 50 miles on one charge in eco mode and not all at once... and there was still juice in the pack but I didn't want to run it all the way out. I had the FSRX so it wasn't as efficient with the suspension and knobby tires but I was amazed at just how far it could go :)

John Moura
3 years ago

Great bike - - Great review!  

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 years ago

+John Moura Thanks John! I agree, this is an awesome ebike... I really like the Bosch system and Haibikes are just cool looking and seem well built ;)

Matthew Sherman
3 years ago

love this bike!  I want one