BULLS Outlaw E45 Review

Bulls Outlaw E45 Electric Bike Review
Bulls Outlaw E45
Bulls Outlaw E45 Shimano Deore Xt Gears Derailleur
Bulls Outlaw E45 48 Volt Bmz Battery Pack
Bulls Outlaw E45 Ergon Ga1 Evo Locking Grips
Bulls Outlaw E45 Grayscale Removable Lcd Display
Bulls Outlaw E45 Prologo 02 Performance Saddle
Bulls Outlaw E45 Rock Shox Revelation Rl Solo Air Fork
Bulls Outlaw E45 Schwalbe Super Moto X 27 5 Tires
Bulls Outlaw E45 Spring Loaded Kickstand
Bulls Outlaw E45 Electric Bike Review
Bulls Outlaw E45
Bulls Outlaw E45 Shimano Deore Xt Gears Derailleur
Bulls Outlaw E45 48 Volt Bmz Battery Pack
Bulls Outlaw E45 Ergon Ga1 Evo Locking Grips
Bulls Outlaw E45 Grayscale Removable Lcd Display
Bulls Outlaw E45 Prologo 02 Performance Saddle
Bulls Outlaw E45 Rock Shox Revelation Rl Solo Air Fork
Bulls Outlaw E45 Schwalbe Super Moto X 27 5 Tires
Bulls Outlaw E45 Spring Loaded Kickstand

Summary

  • A sporty looking, fairly comfortable speed pedelec capable of ~28 mph top speeds, it's running on an optimized geared hub motor design with heat pipe technology for maximum performance
  • Unique mid-mount battery box fills the main frame triangle keeping weight low and centered while allowing the top tube to slope down aggressively for easier mounting and stand-over, bike comes in three sizes
  • Premium components including a Shimano SLX ten speed drivetrain, 203 mm Tektro hydraulic disc brakes, Schwalbe Super Moto-X tires, Ergon GA1 Evo locking grips, Rock Shox Revalation air fork
  • Heavier due to battery capacity, stand-out design due to battery box and chainring, louder operation due to upgraded hub and geared motor, hardly any mounting points for bottles or racks, no lights

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National eBike Shops

Electric Cyclery
900 N Coast Hwy
Laguna Beach,  CA  92651
Propel Bikes
134 Flushing Ave
Brooklyn,  NY  11205

Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

BULLS

Model:

Outlaw E45

Price:

$3,999

Body Position:

Forward

Suggested Use:

Urban, Road

Electric Bike Class:

Speed Pedalec (Class 3)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

2 Years Motor and Battery, 5 Years Frame

Availability:

Europe, Canada, United States, Australia, New Zealand

Model Year:

2016

Bicycle Details

Total Weight:

57 lbs ( 25.85 kg )

Battery Weight:

9.9 lbs ( 4.49 kg )

Motor Weight:

7.04 lbs ( 3.19 kg )

Frame Types:

High-Step

Frame Sizes:

18.11 in ( 45.99 cm )20.08 in ( 51 cm )22.05 in ( 56 cm )

Geometry Measurements:

28" Stand Over Height

Frame Material:

7005 Aluminium

Frame Colors:

Matte Black with Matte White and Metallic Blue Accents

Frame Fork Details:

Rock Shox Revelation RL Solo Air 27.5”, 120 mm Travel, Rebound and Compression Adjust, 15 mm Thru-Axle

Frame Rear Details:

12 mm Thru Axle

Gearing Details:

10 Speed 1x10 Shimano Deore XT CS-HG81-10, 11-34T

Shifter Details:

Shimano SL-M670-10 Triggers on Right

Cranks:

SR Suntour, Hollow Spindle, 48T

Pedals:

Wellgo Alloy Platform with Rubber Tread

Headset:

Chin Haur CH-6201, Tapered 1 1/8"

Stem:

STYX, 7° Angle, 70 mm Extension, 31.8 mm Diameter

Handlebar:

Low Rise, 70 mm, 25 mm Rise, 31.8 mm Diameter, 9° Bend

Brake Details:

Tektro Dorado HD-E715 Hydraulic Disc with 203 mm Rotors, Longer Levers

Grips:

Ergon GA1 EVO Locking, Flat

Saddle:

Prologo 02 Z 0 II

Seat Post:

STYX, Aluminum Alloy

Seat Post Length:

350 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

31.6 mm

Rims:

RYDE, Big Bull, Double Wall, 36H

Spokes:

Stainless Steel, 14 Gauge, Black

Tire Brand:

Schwalbe Super Moto-X, 27.5" x 2.4"

Wheel Sizes:

27.5 in ( 69.85 cm )

Tire Details:

GreeGuard Snakeskin

Tube Details:

Presta Valve

Accessories:

Plastic Chain Guide, Kickstand on Left, Neoprene Wire Wrap on Left Stay

Other:

Locking Removable Battery Pack, Energy Bush Charging Port, Shimano CN-HG54-10 Chain, Motor Heat Sink Fin

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

SR Suntour ATS

Motor Type:

Rear-Mounted Geared Hub
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

500 watts

Motor Torque:

80 Newton meters

Battery Brand:

BMZ

Battery Voltage:

48.1 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

14 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

673.4 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

5.5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

35 miles ( 56 km )

Estimated Max Range:

60 miles ( 97 km )

Display Type:

Removable, Backlit LCD, Human Electro Synergy Components (HESC)

Readouts:

Speed, Battery Level (4 Bars and Percentage), Assist Level (No, Eco, Tour, Climb, Sport), Total Distance, Trip Distance

Display Accessories:

Independent Button Pad with Tactile Feedback on Left, Mini USB Charging Port, Backlight Button, Walk Assist

Drive Mode:

Advanced Pedal Assist (Cadence and Torque Sensing)

Top Speed:

28 mph ( 45 kph )

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Written Review

The Outlaw E45 is a standout in the Bulls line of electric bicycles. It doesn’t use the Bosch or Brose mid-drive system like the other 2016 / 2017 models and the battery isn’t as as standard (either built into the downtube or bolted on as a little pack). This thing looks completely custom with a triangular plastic box seated between the top tube and downtube powering a compact hub motor with special heat-sink plate in the rear. These systems combined are marketed by SR Suntour as “Human Electro Synergy Components” or HESC and the stated goal is to combine human strength with electro-mechanical support… like every other e-bike I test. For me, the proof is in the ride and I tried to go in on this bike without any kind judgement. Simply stated, I was impressed and delighted by the power, responsive pedal assist and touch points on the Outlaw E45. It’s a bike that, while heavier than some other speed pedelecs, delivers comfort through a 120 mm suspension fork and larger Schwalbe Moto X tires. It looks more like a mountain bike to me than an urban racer but that’s exactly what it is. I had no difficulty ascending steep hills despite the compact size of the motor and there was never an issue with it giving out or overheating thanks to a unique heat sink plate positioned just next to the rear disc brake… which is 203 mm in diameter! That’s extra large, both are extra large in fact. And while I mentioned the heavier weigth of this ebike earlier at ~57 lbs, it’s not as high as some of the Stromer models and others I’ve seen and you do get a sizable battery for increased range. Electric bikes tend to struggle with range as you top the 20 mph mark and this one is designed to easily hit 28 mph. My rides were all done going up and down hills and I definitely hit and passed the top speed going down but cannot speak as clearly on flatland performance. What I saw mostly was a bike that outpaced the Bosch speed mid-drive when climbing.

So far this review has been largely positive… the bike is well balanced, it’s priced fairly well given the higher end components, the motor is powerful while blending in because it’s so compact. But that’s whee some question marks arise. The bike itself does not blend in due to the plastic battery box and solid chainring design. People will definitely wonder what’s going on with the bike and you may struggle with storage because there are no bottle cage bosses to attach mini-pumps or water bottles and there are not rack bosses to add a carry rack. For a hardtail frame with city focused tires I’m amazed that they skipped on this. Without the ability to carry gear along this becomes more of a toy or recreational device than a mobility solution and that’s too bad. Yes, there are ways to overcome this with beam racks and bikepacking treking bags but they’re not as easy to connect and disconnect from and they can be bumped out of position easier… heck, they usually don’t carry as much gear either in terms of weight. This is a huge miss for me and I was disappointed to not see lights or reflective sidewall stripes on the tire because the bike is setup for urban riding… where cars go! What’s the purpose of such a large battery pack if you can’t use a tiny bit of that juice for convenient lighting? One area this is addressed is with a mini-USB port under the display mount. You could use this to charge or power a stand alone light but you’ll still have to plug and unplug, mount and dismount that light every ride vs. relying on a permanently attached integrated solution.

The bike works well, it provides a real sense of power and speed and it looks pretty cool even if it does stand out. I love the display panel which balances physical size with readability and is removable. The independent button pad mounted near the left grip is easy to use without taking your hand off and it blends in and seems durable. Perhaps the biggest question mark for many people will be, is this bike too loud? Both the Shimano SLX gear set with hub and internally geared motor produce an abundance of noise. The former buzzes and clicks anytime you’re not pedaling (or if you pedal backwards at standstill as shown in the video) which I believe has to do with the finer increments in the freewheel spinning by and perhaps the spring tension. The upside is that you can pedal and catch the hub more quickly than a lower-end hub but the noise really bugs me. As for the motor, being geared there is more friction and happening inside and running at 48 volts you can actually hear an electronic hum, much like a Toyota Prius or electric car. Unlike electric cars however, there’s no large frame systems or paneling surrounding the thing. Even at lower speeds, the motor is audible and may bother or distract some riders. I’m being a little tough on this system not because it’s a big deal to hear some humming but because other e-bike systems, almost all other systems, are quieter than this one. Take note when watching the video review, there’s a big difference when I mount the camera to the frame right next to the motor vs. when I’m holding it and looking back down. The actual sound to you as a rider and those around you is not as loud as the frame shots.

I hope this paints a fair picture of the Bulls E45 and I hope we see more bikes with this and future SR Suntour drive systems. It performs well and I love the heat pipes and heat sink blade meant to keep it going strong. You’re paying a bit of a premium for some of these new systems and higher end parts but not nearly as much as some competing offerings and I feel like the comfort and style here fit my own preferences. I just wish it was easier to add fenders, a rear rack, lights and of course… I wish it ran quieter. Bulls is a company I’ve been really impressed with for the past year, they offer a number of models now in the USA (having only sold in Europe and Asia previously) and they tend to strike a balance between performance and price. The bikes look cool and are designed well. The Outlaw E45 is perhaps the one exception where there are clear areas for improvement. But at least it comes in three sizes and I love the lower top-tube design and that USB charging port, it could definitely work for those who enjoy faster riding and want one of the more powerful systems out right now… especially if you worry about the heavy shifting on many mid-drives. The motor system and pedal system are very separate here and compliment each other nicely. Big thanks to Bulls for partnering with me for this review.

Pros:

  • One of the most powerful geared hub motors I’ve ever tested (it’s the human electro synergy components line from SR Suntour), it propelled me up the hills around Palos Verdes California faster and more powerfully than almost any other mainstream drive system which really surprised and impressed me!
  • The motor has a really neat external heat sink plate (that almost looks like a disc brake rotor) designed to keep it from overheating when you climb or max out the top speeds
  • Custom battery design that keeps weight low and center on the frame while offering higher capacity and not compromising frame tubing strength, it’s an acquired taste visually but the pack works fine and is removable for separate charging or reduced weight during transport
  • If you take the ~10 pound battery pack off this ebike it actually looks fairly normal and is fun to pedal around, I love how they created a really low high-step design with the angled top tube that’s easier to stand over
  • I love the EnergyBus Rosenberger charging port on the side of the battery because it’s magnetic vs. friction based, if you trip on the cable or it gets pulled for some reason it will just unplug without tipping the bike or causing damage… one downside however is that the little cap cover for it is easy to misplace, maybe a string leash connector would help for future iterations?
  • The ~$4k price point really impressed me, considering this is a speed pedelec capable of 28 mph with a brand new drive system from a well known brand with a good warranty and a huge battery and a nice suspension with hydraulic disc brakes etc. it seems pretty reasonable
  • Really comfortable at speed and for longer rides thanks to the 120 mm air fork from RockShox and larger 2.4″ tires from Schwalbe, these are both quality name brand parts and the tires have GreenGuard to reduce flats
  • Nice to see some serious braking power here given the weight and higher speed capability, you get two extra large 203 mm hydraulic disc brakes from Tektro
  • The motor responds quickly and proportionally to how you pedal but won’t start unless you’re moving because it measures both cadence and torque, I found it to be more zippy feeling than some other torque sensors like the TMM4 and it didn’t misfire when the chain was bouncing or when I really pushed the frame on bumpy terrain
  • The solid chainring looked a little funky to me at first but I love that it includes a guide so both sides of the chain are protected and staying on track (this means less chance of a dropped chain)
  • Sturdy thru-axles on both the front and rear for improved stiffness and handling, love that they have quick release on both wheels as well! Easier to transport and do maintenance on the go
  • I absolutely love the display! It’s compact but easy enough to read… has an integrated mini-usb charging port at the base of the mount and is removable so you don’t have to worry about damage or theft at a rack
  • Lots of great information accessible through the display including battery percentage! This is much more useful than a four bar infographic… the button pad to control assist and navigate the display is easy to reach near the left grip but isn’t bulky or ugly
  • It’s great that this electric bike has a kickstand AND that they positioned it way towards the back so you don’t have to worry about banging it with your crank arms when moving the bike around, the stand itself is sturdy and offers adjustable height

Cons:

  • The motor produces a distinct electronic wine when operating, especially at full power, that’s a bit louder than most others I’ve tested, you can hear it in the video review above when I strap the camera to the bike, note that it doesn’t sound quite that loud when you’re actually riding
  • Try as I might, I couldn’t figure out how to switch the display to imperial units from metric, not a huge deal but did leave me a little frustrated… do you know how to do it? Feel free to comment below
  • The pedals they chose are sort of meh, I don’t like the rubberized grip as much as metal pegs and the platform size is medium vs. a little larger but to be fair, they are tougher than cage style pedals and don’t add much weight thanks to the X design, consider swapping for Wellgos like these if you’re looking for a larger grippier surface
  • I was really surprised and disappointed to find that the seat stays didn’t have threaded eyelets or bosses to add a carry rack… this is a hardtail speed pedelec that would be perfect for commuting but you’re forced to use a beam rack like this which can get bumped easier side to side than a bolt on rack like this, and beam racks raise your minimum seat height and take up space where an under saddle bag or seat post suspension or light might otherwise go…
  • Because of the oversized battery this bike weighs a bit more at ~57 lbs but that’s still lighter than some of the Stromer models which are also speed pedelecs but use a gearless motor (which tends to be quieter and offers a bit of power regeneration)
  • Some other areas that could be improved (but might raise the price) is if this bike had integrated lights (since the battery is so large anyway) and also some reflective sidewall stripes on the tires for improved visibility… maybe a way to add fenders too, like bosses on the fork and at the rear for those as well as a rack
  • There’s a little on/off silver button on the battery pack but it didn’t seem to matter if I pressed it… the display was activated separately and stayed on

Resources:

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grench
2 months ago
pxpaulx
I watched courts video for the outlaw and it certainly appears to check all the right boxes. The 500w motor coupled with the torque sensor and 48v battery are probably a very nice strong combination! The only better option would probably be a build with the bbshd for the extra power, but that is also stepping outside of most state and fed limits.
The most important difference from Court's review is the update to the controller. The bike (in Courts review) was speed limited by the assist level. This limit has been removed with the new controller programming. It now performs similarly to the Stromer - you can achieve 29+mph with low level assist.
pxpaulx
2 months ago
I watched courts video for the outlaw and it certainly appears to check all the right boxes. The 500w motor coupled with the torque sensor and 48v battery are probably a very nice strong combination! The only better option would probably be a build with the bbshd for the extra power, but that is also stepping outside of most state and fed limits.
Ravi Kempaiah
2 months ago
ROCebike
Hi guys. So now I'm looking for my first ebike. Having read and binge watched multiple reviews, I could use some community guidance. Unlike Court, I'm 6'2" and 230 lbs. So it's hard to get a feel for the specs listed and what to avoid. Here's what I'd like:
- 70% Street, 30% Hardpack former trolley trails
- No commuting. But want to ride for fun, health, and maybe lose 30 lbs.
- Need less aggressive to upright position due to neck issue. Not cruiser style.
- 2 - 4 hour rides perhaps 4 days per week ( semi retired). Maybe 30 mile average rides.
- Prefer speed pedelecs, but need some good torque.
- Kicker is I live on a hill (sound familiar?), 14 % rise for about half mile.

So what motor and battery should I spec? Torque sensor or cadence?
Willing to upgrade components for comfort e.g. Thudbuster, etc
Quality parts and build, I hate buyers remorse.

Seems a Stromer ST2 fits the bill, but my budget is up to $4000. Cross Current looks interesting, but power and torque seems too low.

Appreciate any thoughts or recommendations.
You're in for luck. There is one bike that matches all those requirements.
Two weeks ago, I would have hesitated to recommend it but now I am very comfortable recommending Outlaw E45 from BULLS.
By far, the most torque out of a geared hub motor.

You can see Court's video here.

If you want to see more high-res pics of every component, you can see here.

@grench is perhaps the first in the US to have an upgraded controller and this new controller makes the bike a completely different beast.
He is over 300 lbs and this thing has quite impressive hauling power.
I have ridden the torquey geared hub motors, the 2017 line up from Easy Motion is up there with MAC motors. The SR Suntour motor on the Outlaw is little noisy but it is extremely torquey as well. The fork on that alone retails for $700. It doesn't come with fenders or racks but looks like you're not looking to commute.

You can get it for under $4K and it comes 48V, 14Ah. A massive 670Whrs and for a 230 lb rider, you're looking at 45 miles range easily.
George S.
4 months ago
mamerc
Some guy in a 30mph+ eBike passed me in a 3 foot wide bike lane. He was traveling with ongoing traffic and keeping up with the cars next to him Sitting low with feet up on the forks I was unsure if he even had pedals! Now I know this is often the argument with non "e" mountain bikes and us...
Should 30+ be allowed on a bike lane?
In California you can go 28 mph in a bike lane along a road, but not a dedicated and separate bike path. California is the 'model' law the industry wants everywhere. On a path along a road, do they even have a 'bike' speed limit? Otherwise the standard speed limit would apply. To go above 20 mph under the California scheme you have to be using pedal assist, so you have to be pedaling.

If you are going under 20 mph, the original design limit for ebikes going back to the 90's, it has always been legal to have a throttle, even if that is all you use. They seemed to outlaw them for 28 mph ebikes, but that hasn't worked.

Personally, I don't want an ebike that goes 28 mph. I'd buy an electric motorcycle that went 40-45 if it was light, but had good brakes and a very solid suspension. But that's really the point. We all want what we want, but how should we regulate others when they want something different? I'm not afraid of the motorcycle class. If you make a motorcycle, you are a motorcycle. Everything can't be an ebike, and some ebikes are just too dangerous. When a guy says he bought a $200 Walmart bike and ebay 2000 watt motor, and he rides it at 40 mph, that scares me.
grench
4 months ago
Bikedriver
Hey Grench,

well, I think looking at torque only is misleading. For example a KTM freeride E only puts out 42 Nm peak torque, but would blow away your bulls or any 250-350 watt ebike on a trial at 16,000 watts. ...doubt you'd think that bike is "weak" at 42 Nm if you rode it. Power is a function of torque and speed. (X pi/30) You can have higher torque at lower speed or higher speed at lower torque for any given "power."

Hard to compare really to be honest. I've owned and ridden Bosch, and although never a Bulls, I've ridden the rotwild and the new Levo , which I believe all use the brose system.

IN general, I'd say the comparison/difference is most evident at very low speeds and high torques. On very steep off road climbs, at very low speeds, the Bulls, or any mid drive I've ever ridden, is definitely still superior. The maxon falls behind on very steep climbs unless I shift down and add the extra human power to the pedals to make up for it. However on less steeper uphill grades, road uphill, on flats, rolling hills, and downhill, there is no comparison. It's acceleration is so fast and general "feel" is so different in comparison...hard to describe, other's don't compare.

The bulls seems pretty cool though..., especially that new one, it has an impressive battery range at like 600 wH (but of course, is heavier).

Some other differences that are massive and unique on maxon vs. anything else I've tried ...shifting - is incredibly fast and smooth, no matter if you are going uphill under high pedal power or down.... Shifting fast on a midrive at high torque can be harsh. And then the other massive difference - pedaling without power it the battery runs out...it's not terrible and silky smooth.

I do wish they had a larger battery. Range is actually really impressive on the road and at lower levels given the size of the battery (360 wH) by my experience so far. I keep wanting to try to limit myself to level 2 and ride on road until the battery dies to see what kind of range I can get, but just haven't yet (I'll report when I do). I'd guess maybe 15-20 miles on level 2 and maybe 30+ miles on level 1 is possible ...I hardly ever ride the road though and pretty much always ride level 3. Off road, level 3, using the turbo - pushing it as hard as I can on very technical XC trails, I personally can get and plan for about 12 - 13 miles per charge. But my buddies girlfriend who also rides a maxon can get like 15-20+ miles off road on the same trails per charge - she comes back 1/2 full while we are empty - rider weight and road / off road seems to be a big factor on range of the maxon.
I agree we all tend to think our bikes perform better than someone's else's bike.

That's why I started my post with 'have you ridden with other Ebikers'.

I continue to ride with every Ebike I can find. I also ask to switch bikes so we can take some of the rider input out of the equation.

I weigh approx 350lbs and I continue to eat ST1s up on small hills and flats. The ST2 has more top speed - after they catch up.

I would love to put this Bulls Outlaw (not a 250/350 mid drive - but a Suntor hub drive 500) up against the KTM or the Maxon. It would be fun. I live in Wichita KS are you anywhere close? I travel a lot also...maybe close by you someday?? I rode a KTM with a Bosch performance while in Austria...nice bike but nowhere close to the acceleration of the Bulls. Maybe it will out climb the Bulls?????

Trust me when I find one that fits me and outperforms the Bulls - I will own it.
grench
4 months ago
JayVee
For someone like you who goes zipping around on your Stromer, don't you feel constrained by that 25km/h limit? It drives me bonkers and is probably the no. 1 reason I haven't bought an e-bike yet
It is interesting how I am affected by the speed limit: 1). If I have a destination in mind - 20mph seems ridiculous. 2). If I am sight seeing and riding around lots of walkers - 20 seems reasonable.

So I would say yes - having a 28+ mph bike is the only solution. For those who don't want to ride fast...slow down . I should also add - the Stromer spends a lot of time in the garage since I got the Bulls Outlaw.


As for the infa structure in Linz and Vienna...it is the best I have ever seen (Note: I am comparing to the mid west in the USA). There are dedicated bike lanes everywhere. You can take a folding bike on all the trains. Bikes and pedestrians have the right of way everywhere. This is a new concept for an American. I definitely feel safe riding here. At home I feel like I run the gauntlet.
VLADIMIRO LONGO
4 months ago
Michael1098
I recently broke my shoulder and mangled my thumb ( on the opposite hand, of course) and I blame the front wheel drive of my ebike.

It is a very powerful motor with throttle and pedelec. It is supposed to be only a 200 watt but it goes 35 km/hr by throttle alone. When you peddle there is the inevitable 1.5 sec delay but then it kicks in full power which is a lot of fun in the dry.

In the wet it's a different story and it has thrown me twice with the most recent being the more serious. I was on a bike path through a park on a slight downhill and not peddling as I rounded a slight curve. Then, when it straightened out, I started peddling idly. A second and a half later the front wheel started spinning and I then made the disastrous decission to hit the brakes. Immediately the front wheel disappeared beneath me and I was sliding along on a straight piece of pavement that you would think was impossible to crash on. And with the aforementioned broken shoulder.

The doctor says I can't ride for 6 months but when I do I may switch to a rear wheel drive.

Anyone else with similar issues from front wheel drive?
I had my first ebike with two motors (www.goldenmtor.ca). I immediately removed it before my first pedaling as a friend of mine went through the same experience as you did. Sorry man.....they should outlaw front wheel rotors.
Shoestring
5 months ago
Hey Mr Grench, I haven't checked in for a while. How is that Bulls Outlaw doing? I love to hear an update on the performance/reliability. Any issues?
J.R.
5 months ago
grench
I have been able to ride the Bulls Outlaw in the rain on several occasions. This mornings ride was crazy. It was raining so hard cars were pulling over and stopping in the bike lane! A couple of discoveries.
1. The bike appears very water resistant
2. You need to double your stopping distance. Even with the 208mm rotors stopping is less responsive in the rain
3. Headlights and tail lights loose large a percentage of their effectiveness...cars don't seem to see you
4. Riding without fenders SUCKs. There is no speed at which the rooster tails of water miss the rider
5. The larger schwalbe super motos will hydroplane at higher speeds
6. The Brooks saddle got wet even though I had the rain sleeve on. I think the rooster trails of water will penetrate anything...lol
7. Get platform pedals with adjustable set screws for traction...my feet were soaked and they never slipped
8. Use rain X on your glasses
9. Make sure you have a towel at your destination. I never knew you could carry so much water
10. Ride with leather gloves or your hands will slip on the grips

And last but not least Ride In The RAIN! It is definitely a new experience. I promise you won't melt! This will also answer the concerns of the water resistance of your bike. At some point you are going to get caught in the rain if you ride. It is comforting to know the bike will take it. Or won't ;-)

IMO - This is one area where the DIY kits suffer...water resistance. Purpose built bikes are water sealed (relatively).

Check out my activity on Strava.
https://www.strava.com/activities/666355132

Thoughts?
I've found ebikes to be water resistant as well. Once riding in a snow storm, my non incorporated headlight had some water intrusion issues, but it never affected the bike. Another time the LED's malfunctioned due to snow piling up on the handlebars, but it didn't affect how the bike ran. I used some dielectric silicone grease on the connections and never had another problem.
grench
5 months ago
I have been able to ride the Bulls Outlaw in the rain on several occasions. This mornings ride was crazy. It was raining so hard cars were pulling over and stopping in the bike lane! A couple of discoveries.
1. The bike appears very water resistant
2. You need to double your stopping distance. Even with the 208mm rotors stopping is less responsive in the rain
3. Headlights and tail lights loose large a percentage of their effectiveness...cars don't seem to see you
4. Riding without fenders SUCKs. There is no speed at which the rooster tails of water miss the rider
5. The larger schwalbe super motos will hydroplane at higher speeds
6. The Brooks saddle got wet even though I had the rain sleeve on. I think the rooster trails of water will penetrate anything...lol
7. Get platform pedals with adjustable set screws for traction...my feet were soaked and they never slipped
8. Use rain X on your glasses
9. Make sure you have a towel at your destination. I never knew you could carry so much water
10. Ride with leather gloves or your hands will slip on the grips

And last but not least Ride In The RAIN! It is definitely a new experience. I promise you won't melt! This will also answer the concerns of the water resistance of your bike. At some point you are going to get caught in the rain if you ride. It is comforting to know the bike will take it. Or won't ;-)

IMO - This is one area where the DIY kits suffer...water resistance. Purpose built bikes are water sealed (relatively).

Check out my activity on Strava.
https://www.strava.com/activities/666355132

Thoughts?
grench
6 months ago
vincent
Thank you mbirds

Rode today in payson and we rode in some pretty hilly areas, using pas2 in this stuff here and there was ok

But if i got to the bottom of a hill and needed to make a turn and forgot level 2 was on it would shoot me forward when i did not need it

Mostly riding the bike unpowered and using throttle on hills etc

Imo level 1-2 should be slower/medium speed/power and then things should start stepping up

Obviously we want the power but when we need it

Will be interesting to hear what the watts/speed is on the diff levels of pas on the mini

Really do not want to get a new bike and have to cut up the wires to put in a CA
If it comes to that i may get something else

Would love to ride a mini before i buy one, but no way to do that

Seems most of you guys are on the other side of the country, lol



Here is a good question for some of you more experienced riders

The mini would be more for friends- some of them shorter women to ride off road with me- 5 ft-5 ft 4
A lot of them are novice riders or have not ridden in 20-30 years

What i am finding in looking for safe, slow road type places to ride is there are a lot of gravel forest type roads to ride up in northern az, but we need either more mtn bike type bikes with full suspension or fat tires

These roads look maintained but sure there could be some washboarding , washed out areas with sand, potholes etc

My thinking is fat tires do better and are more stable for this kind of riding , than say 2-2.5 inch wide mtn bikes ......

Do you think smaller women and more nervous riders will feel more secure on gravel/uneven terrain with the mini or a 2 inch wide fs mtn bike?
We will not be going fast, probably 10-15 mph max on straightaways and much slower in curves , rougher road terrain etc

I felt the rover was really stable the first time i rode it, that is what stood out to me

Today i rode over some curbs slowly and on/off the sidewalk/smooth concrete to gravel and back several times and the rover does not skid, lose traction, slip or really even notice changing terrains like that
I feel this would be a good thing for more novice riders that are unsure

My easy motion street with skinny tires would not have handled those changes well, at least not with me riding it
Maybe more experienced riders handle that stuff fine, but i dont trust that bike for anything like that

Does great on pavement but not gravel, sand etc

Any thoughts on this before i spend another $1700 would be great lol
I really enjoy your posts! I think a common theme from my perspective is the power delivery timing. It appears to me there is a simple solution go with Throttle only! You will have complete control of when power is applied and how much power is applied. It is an interesting perspective from my side...I perfer a torque sensor only. I am a little lazy and used the throttle too much (when I had one). Neither of my current bikes have a throttle. Stromer ST1 Platinum and a Bulls Outlaw.

Thoughts?
grench
7 months ago
hikingdad
This is the best ebike I've ridden and I have owned and/ or built 6 ebikes over 12 years ( all trottles). The full suspension is great....the battery is removable in seconds....and the battery is 17.5 aHrs....650whrs...50lbs.... MSRP $4600. LOVE IT

Before you spend $6000 on the Specialized, or get a Haibike, check out the BULLS. Super quiet. I tried all the major mid drive ebikes....(I demoed Haibikes with Bosch CX, Yamaha and Specialized Levo w/ Brose). E-stream FS3 27.5 is the quietest ....more hillclimbing torque than the Bosch CX or Yamaha IMO.

I just did a major uphill, rocky, banked switchback trail and it blew me away with the smooth torque sensor and balance/weight distribution. It felt like I was magnetically held on the trail as I was climbing rocks, effortlessly. Less wheelie prone. On the flats, you determine how much assist and just cruise.....but you must always pedal to keep the assist working. Brakes are incredible.

I'm 60 with two bad knees, so I know instantly when the pedal resistance is causing too much pain. Usually level 2 is the best on the trails. There is a "sweet spot" in certain gears at certain speeds for the cadence and torque sensing. It took a day or two to find it, and once I did, the steep climbing is effortless.
My Bulls Outlaw E45 ships Tuesday. I agree Bulls appears to be the new leader in components for the money. Speed bikes with big batteries and top of the line equipment.

I can't wait to try mine!
Christopher Metcalfe Creations
1 year ago
Hi
Ann M.

I have a Outlaw 1200 Red in color and I love it. I have a problem with the throttle and charger know I have no charger they are waiting for one to come in. I was trying to see if anyone was having the same problems? I have a small bike shop and would like to start building some electric bikes. Any feed back I can get would be a great help.Please check out my web site and let me know what you think? http://chrismetcalfe1.tripod.com/
Vern
1 year ago
States are able to make their own laws regarding motor vehicles. CA and NY tend to be trend setters in many areas and other states may follow. CA emissions requirements on motor vehicles comes to mind. CA has traditionally had the most strict emission requirements in the nation. Now new cars are just made to meet 50 state emission requirements. For better or worse...
I guess the one reason I like the CA law is because at least it doesn't follow along with NYs outright ban. Additionally it allows for a speed pedelec which is a must in my mind for commuters. I don't think it is as big of a problem as you make it out to be. Retailers traditionally have to modify their products and product lines based on local and state ordinances. In CA a class sticker may have to be placed on a bike. In other states a retailer can decide whether or not they want to carry "speed pedelecs" that are technically illegal in their state. The speed pedelec class is really the only difference anyway. Considering that there are many bikes being sold that are technically illegal now, retailer may not care and just let the market decide what to carry. There are many retailers near me that sell the Outlaw and I don't think it is technically legal anywhere in CA. I don't see any reason why a class sticker could not be included in a kit as well. There will have to be a honor system to some extent as to whether home builders follow the law and use the stickers. I really can't imagine that much enforcement unless someone is being a complete idiot and blatantly ignoring the laws.
Richard Simpson
1 year ago
Hey Court,

Looks like the site is growing. See my post below regarding my dilinger outlaw and now specialised turbo. It's a fantastic bike.
Richard Simpson
1 year ago
I bought a specialised turbo i had my eye on for a while. After a disastrous run with a $2000 AUD dilinger outlaw i decided to take the owner to court and get at least some of my money back and then put it towards a bike that i could get decent service out of in Australia and that was actually built to a standard that would mean i was safe on the road with the power i wanted.

Although the bike is a pedalec it is a real joy to ride and the components are very robust. I'm pretty hard on the brakes though as i have had the bike derestricted and normally sit on about 40 kmh. I have been up to 60 but this is down hill and the assist cuts out at 45 Kmh. I get a very decent range from the bike and I am totally stoked with it. It was 5K AUD but really worth it for the experience it is to ride.

I run my dog with it and commute and just go for a spin. It's like being 10 years old again. "You only better" is such a great description for this bike and experience. You feel like superman and you can put in as much effort as you like. Because of the pedalec nature of the set up (which i totally get) you get the experience of being superhuman and i catch myself laughing all the time on this bike.

I can thoroughly recommend this bike. It retails for around 7K but because they could not find a buyer the bike sat for ages. I believe they are bringing a down spec model out which is around 5K but i have mine now and am totally stoked like i said.

Definitely worth the money and having been through the pain of a cheap and nasty and dangerous Chinese import with no service in Australia I can thoroughly recommend this bike.

By the way in order to absolve the sellers of any warranty or legal issues i wrote a note which stated that i understood that in derestricting the bike it was no longer legal for the road. I signed it and handed it over and they handed me back a 750W peak power pedalec which will sit on 42 K's with a moderate effort.

To limit this bike to 26 Kmh is really ridiculous in my view and makes it a waste of time and money to ride. But at 46 kmh its worth every cent !!!

Go for it.
George S.
1 year ago
People are complaining that the Prodeco line doesn't really compete on speed, their road bikes. They don't. I don't know if they will offer bikes that can play the speed pedelec game, especially if California passes the Chiu bill. This gets back to the throttle only thing.

Even if you sell a really well configured speed pedelec that can go 28 mph, right now, it's not legal in my state, and many other states. If California goes to the 28 mph class, it won't change any other state laws, by itself, and it won't take effect until 2017. So there are manufacturers who basically stay under 20 mph, and there are others who sell pedelecs, right now, at 28 mph. I think they want the Chiu bill to clarify this. And then there are all the kits that go 30 mph and up.

It's a free-for-all. That's all I said. Sure, Prodeco sells the Outlaw, says it is "Off Road". There are a lot of 20 mph bikes and manufacturers, I just happen to know that Prodeco bikes are generally restricted to 20 mph, with no obvious way around it.

Speed is constantly mentioned in many, many threads, and comments to reviews. I'm not sure people are real clear on some of the regs, and I'm not sure people really care that much. But a manufacturer has to steer a course around the laws, for sure. Kit manufacturers have more slack, especially if the builder can configure the kit. I don't know what California does if they try to certify watts and speeds for kits.
TL. LI.
2 weeks ago

Hey dude, I have the E45 Outlaw as well but not the 2016 Modell, mine has
40nm. but makes only 20db noise, which is unhearable. why is the newer one
so much louder is it because of the 12V more?

3dkiller
2 months ago

man its loud....

glazierEd
2 months ago

"They let us film"?
Isn't it a public sidewalk?

AridersLife
3 months ago

Man that a sexy bike. id love to wheelie it, lol.

Zach Watevah
3 months ago

omg this one looks so sick

J-N-H-M
3 months ago

You Live in Palos Verdes ?

Yves-D Poulin
3 months ago

Keep on the good work. Drop the word "like " in your videos and you will
get 5 stars out of 5.

Koalazzz
3 months ago

Can you do more folding bike reviews

Dave Channel
3 months ago

that cobi system looks nice

Adam Do
3 months ago

what you could do is be a little more critical on your reviews. You talk
about mostly plus points but what are the negatives ? how is it in
comparison to alternative bikes in that price range ?

Adam Do
3 months ago

what you could do is be a little more critical on your reviews. You talk
about mostly plus points but what are the negatives ? how is it in
comparison to alternative bikes im that price range ?

Mark Elford
3 months ago

Thats a steep hill 12-18%?

wjf213
3 months ago

Good video. Here's a simple way to measure grade on a hill that I've used
for 30 years or more. My father taught me and I'm sure his father taught
him. We never used a level, we used a string with a bubble level on it as
that's much more compact and easy to carry.
http://www.bikesatwork.com/blog/how-to-measure-grade

Also, if those motors heat up like that, why don't you suggest that they
start casting heat sink fins that run diagonally across the outer motor
hub? This way as the motor turns, it will catch air and force it through
the fins removing heat as it goes. I bet you could even make an after
market one that wraps around a motor and held in place with a simple lock.
Then you can remove it if need be. In any case, keep up the great work.

Mark Elford
3 months ago

I only know the bottle with water method...,theres gotta be something on
the new phones that will tell you? i dont have a phone so cant help out.i
live at the bottom of a crazy hill that tests all my ebike builds.

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 months ago

I should figure out how to measure hill grades sometime so I can include
that with the review... Is there a tool or a method you'd suggest? Indeed,
it was a very steep hill!

Redstonemod
3 months ago

You should do a giveaway of one of your bikes

Sean Ó Briain
3 months ago

What's your current bike?

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 months ago

Hey Redstonemod! I'd love to do that more often but almost all of the bikes
filmed here do not belong to me... I travel around and review them at shops
or sometimes at the manufacturer headquarters. I did buy a Haibike a couple
years back and gave it to my Uncle when his car started having some
troubles. Here's a video we shot together after he had used it for
transportation to work for a year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuSKCSFuxdY

Dave Channel
3 months ago

what bike would you have if you lived in the UK

Dave Channel
3 months ago

Looks grate thanks

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 months ago

Hmm... Probably a commuter model with fenders and lights because I hear it
can rain a bit there. Are we talking about London or the countryside Dave?
Here's one I like: https://electricbikereview.com/izip/e3-dash/ it's not
super expensive but comes with lots of accessories still, you can use it
without feeling bad if it gets banged up while commuting and the battery is
easy to remove for charging in the office :D

diego martin de la torre
3 months ago

Sme gustaría escuchar los vídeos en español muchas gracias

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 months ago

Mi novia es mexicana así que tal vez ella le ayudará con un vídeo en
español algún día! ¿Hay una ebike en particular que le gustaría ver
revisados?

Jay Gurung
3 months ago

hey court,do you know anything about xofo motor?is xofo motor a good and
reliable motor?

Jay Gurung
3 months ago

I saw it on some chinese e-bike on Alibaba.According to my online research
it seems like a pretty reliable motor brand.they are very active on
pedelecs forum too.

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 months ago

Hi Jay! I haven't heard much about that one? Which bike did you see it on
or how did you hear about it?

yosef Habib Hafiz
3 months ago

what camera gimble do you use may I ask, and what did you attach the camera
with @ 14:38 ?

yosef Habib Hafiz
3 months ago

very nice indeed, and thanx for the reply. btw would you call the Greyp
g12s to be a electric bicycle ?

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 months ago

Hey! I bought one of these motorized gimbals for my GoPro 4 a couple years
back: http://amzn.to/2eDznRg and I also got one of these bolt on bike mount
adapters for the same camera which is what I clip onto the frame to get the
up close shots... it kind of looks like this http://amzn.to/2ecK9yZ not
sure they sell it anymore? In both cases I have fur stickers around the
mics to help with audio quality http://amzn.to/2eDCs3Z hope this helps!

Andrew Spacespanker
3 months ago

Did you know that the guy is only 135 pounds? I wish he mentioned that in
his previous videos. I would have never thought...

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 months ago

Hey Andrew! You're correct, I sometimes call it out and maybe should have
here (given the climbing and all). I'm not super heavy but we swap bikes
many times and in this case one of the people riding along was a bit larger
and heavier and I saw the good climbing and speed performance with him on
it so I just focused on that.

Fat Bike Freak
3 months ago

It's a metric world...

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 months ago

True, a majority of the world uses metric... I post all of the stats
converted back on every full review. Sorry if it's a bit confusing or
frustrating when I quote speed and weight in Imperial units on the videos.
I was born and raised in America so I'm trying to relate to people who live
here :)

Fat Bike Freak
3 months ago

That bike is a bunch of Bull...

ElectricBikeReview.com
3 months ago

Lol