BULLS E-Stream EVO FS 3 27.5 Review

Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Electric Bike Review
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Brose Trail Tune Mid Drive Motor
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Integrated Removable Bmz Battery Pack
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Ergon Ga1 Locking Grips
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Rock Shox Pike Yari Rc Suspension Fork 150mm
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Rock Shox Monarch Plus Rt
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Diamond Frame Bottle Accessory Bosses
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Schwalbe Rocket Ron Tires
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Shimano M615 Hydraulic Disc Brakes
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Shimano Deore Xt 22 Speed
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Electric Bike Review
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Brose Trail Tune Mid Drive Motor
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Integrated Removable Bmz Battery Pack
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Ergon Ga1 Locking Grips
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Rock Shox Pike Yari Rc Suspension Fork 150mm
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Rock Shox Monarch Plus Rt
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Diamond Frame Bottle Accessory Bosses
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Schwalbe Rocket Ron Tires
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Shimano M615 Hydraulic Disc Brakes
Bulls E Stream Evo Fs 3 27 5 Shimano Deore Xt 22 Speed

Summary

  • An all-mountain electric bike with beautifully integrated battery, motor and display... it blends in more than most other e-mountain bikes I've tested and runs quiet
  • Sturdy 15 mm thru axle in the front and 12 mm axle in the rear with Boost technology on the wheels (wider axles for better chain alignment and wheel strength)
  • RockShox air suspension in the front and rear with 150 mm travel Pike Yari fork, balanced 27.5" wheelset with tubeless ready Rocket Ron tires by Schwalbe
  • Smaller display shows less detail about your ride (no odometer, max speed etc.) and the motor doesn't offer shift sensing, battery port cover doesn't stick down easily and keyhole is near crank arms

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Video Review

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Introduction

Make:

BULLS

Model:

E-Stream EVO FS 3 27.5

Price:

$4,699

Body Position:

Forward

Suggested Use:

Mountain, Downhill

Electric Bike Class:

Pedal Assist (Class 1)
Learn more about Ebike classes

Warranty:

2 Years Motor and Battery, 5 Years Frame

Availability:

Europe, Canada, United States, Australia, New Zealand

Model Year:

2016

Bicycle Details

Total Weight:

51.8 lbs (23.49 kg)

Battery Weight:

7 lbs (3.17 kg)

Motor Weight:

6.61 lbs (2.99 kg)

Frame Material:

7005 Aluminium

Frame Sizes:

16.14 in (40.99 cm)17.32 in (43.99 cm)19.29 in (48.99 cm)

Frame Types:

High-Step

Frame Colors:

Matte Black with Gloss Grey and Neon Yellow Accents

Frame Fork Details:

Rock Shox Pike Yari RC 27.5 Solo Air, 150 mm Travel, 15 mm Maxle with Quick Release and Boost

Frame Rear Details:

Rock Shox Monarch Plus RT, 120 mm Travel, Rebound Adjust, 12 mm Thru Axle with QR

Attachment Points:

Bottle Cage Bosses

Gearing Details:

22 Speed 2x11 Shimano Deore XT, 11-40T

Shifter Details:

Shimano Deore XT Triggers on Right

Cranks:

FSA Cranks, 38T / 28T

Pedals:

Wellgo Alloy Platform, Cage Style

Headset:

FSA Tapered 1 1/8"

Stem:

7° Angle, (70 mm, 80 mm)

Handlebar:

Low Rise, 720 mm, 25 mm Rise, 9° Bend

Brake Details:

Shimano M615 Hydraulic Disc with 180 mm Ice Tech Rotors, Shimano Levers

Grips:

Ergon GA1 EVO Locking, Flat

Saddle:

Selle Royal Seta M1

Seat Post:

Aluminum Alloy

Seat Post Length:

300 mm

Seat Post Diameter:

30.9 mm

Rims:

HC-30D 32 Hole

Spokes:

Stainless Steel, 14 Gauge Front 13 Gauge Rear, Black

Tire Brand:

Schwalbe Rocket Ron, 27.5" x 2.25"

Wheel Sizes:

27.5 in (69.85cm)

Tire Details:

Tubeless Ready, Folding, EVO Liteskin, Trail Star 3

Tube Details:

Presta Valve

Accessories:

Velo Battery Protector Pad

Other:

IP56 Ingress Rating, Boost Adds 10 mm to Hub Length in Font and 6 mm in the Rear

Electronic Details

Motor Brand:

Brose, Trail Tune

Motor Type:

Mid-Mounted Geared Motor
Learn more about Ebike motors

Motor Nominal Output:

250 watts

Motor Peak Output:

530 watts

Motor Torque:

90 Newton meters

Battery Brand:

BMZ

Battery Voltage:

37 volts

Battery Amp Hours:

17.5 ah

Battery Watt Hours:

647.5 wh

Battery Chemistry:

Lithium-ion

Charge Time:

4.5 hours

Estimated Min Range:

50 miles (80 km)

Estimated Max Range:

130 miles (209 km)

Display Type:

Fixed, Backlit Transflective LCD, BULLS CSI

Readouts:

Speed, Battery Level (5 Bars), Assist Level (None, Eco, Tour, Sport)

Display Accessories:

Independent Button Pad with Tactile Feedback on Left, 6 Volt Micro USB Port on Display

Drive Mode:

Advanced Pedal Assist (Cadence and Torque Sensing)

Top Speed:

20 mph (32 kph)

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Written Review

Bulls has delivered one of the most diverse electric mountain bike lineups to the US that I’ve seen to date. Their bikes come in multiple sizes, use the latest battery technology and feature premium components (in this case a Shimano Deore XT drivetrain with 22 speeds, Shimano M615 hydraulic disc brakes, Ergon locking grips and RockShox air suspension supporting burly thru-axles on both wheels, Boost technology that widens the hubs and Schwalbe tubeless ready tires). My focus as a reviewer goes from “is this bike capable” towards “how does this specific model fit in the lineup” given that they also have 29er models and speed pedelecs.

As a Class 1 ebike, you get a top speed of 20 mph and no throttle mode with the E-Stream EVO FS 3 27.5 but are thus allowed to use it on more trails. It’s an ebike that you have to pedal in order to activate and it relies on torque and cadence sensors to deliver smooth responsive power output. The bike doesn’t perform like some others I’ve tested where the motor is clearly on or off, this one feels more natural and is a lot quieter as shown in the video review above. With a nominal rating of 250 watts some may not be impressed at first but the peak out put of 530 delivers and I have never had an issue climbing, even the steepest trails, if I shifted down to lower climbing gears.

Powering the bike on can be a two step process if you haven’t ridden for a day, there’s a button on the top of the downtube that activates the battery and a second one on the display button pad. Once both are switched on you can choose from three power levels, offering increasing torque and speed… you can also click down to zero where the bike performs as a normal pedal-power bicycle would. At ~52 lbs this is not the worlds lightest electric bike but the battery capacity is enormous so you’re getting a lot of extra range in exchange. I found that the battery, motor and rear suspension weight was all kept as low and central as possible to maximize handling. My only grips are that the flap covering the charging port doesn’t stick down perfectly and might let some dust in over time and that the keyhole positions the key very near the left crank arm and could expose it to bending and breaking if left in.

With 27.5″ wheels and longer travel 150 mm suspension up front, I view this bike as an all-mountain model with the potential for enduro riding. Compared with the 29er models, these wheels are more agile and easier to turn. The tires are not super wide and thus, fit between ricks easier but might also sink into soft terrain and slip on angles easier. The tires are tubeless ready and feature Liteskin, meaning they have thinner sidewalls to reduce weight. One of the biggest benefits of this model compared with Bosch or Yamaha driven bikes is that the battery fits into the downtube and the motor is super quiet. This makes it much more invisible to fellow riders… and it makes hanging it on some car racks easier. If you’re looking to ride further and enjoy all types of terrain, not just flatter trails, then this would be an excellent choice. It does not have shift sensing so take care in how you ride and shift those gears, keep an eye on the key when messing with the battery (or just charge with it on the frame) and consider adding an independent cycle computer if you want more feedback. Also consider upgrading the pedals from the stock cages. Big thanks to Bulls for partnering with me for this review.

Pros:

  • The battery and motor blend perfectly with the frame, from the side it almost doesn’t look like an electric bike at all and the motor runs very quietly so you can blend in
  • Because it uses both a torque and cadence sensor, the bike responds fluidly as you pedal, it’s a great approach for mountain bikes especially because you might be riding on unstable terrain or paths that require quick changes in power output
  • Despite having such an integrated battery design, you can still remove it easily for reduced weight, safer storage or charging separately and it just requires the key to do so… no extra tools
  • I like the minimalist display panel they chose, it’s transflective so you can see it clearly in bright sunlight and it’s super small so it stays out of the way while not taking up too much bar space or standing out
  • Bulls has chosen to use the EnergyBus charging port for the battery which uses magnets (like a MacBook) so if you trip over the cable it won’t bend the pins or tip the bike… it will just unplug
  • Many of the Bulls electric bikes come in multiple sizes and the E-Stream EVO FS 3 27.5 is no different, you get three frame sizes to choose from to maximize fit and performance for your body type
  • This bike would perform well on all-mountain terrain and possibly some nduro riding because it has a longer travel 150 mm suspension fork but mid-sized wheels with the popular 27.5″ diameter, it felt responsive but also forgiving to me
  • This is one of the very few electric mountain bikes I’ve seen with more than 11 speeds, the Brose drive system allows you to have two chainrings vs. one so in this case, the Shimano Deore XT drivetrain delivers 22 speeds which is more like traditional unpowered mountain bikes but also increases weight and complexity a bit
  • Solid 180 mm hydraulic disc brakes from Shimano, they deliver smooth powerful stopping that’s important for actual mountain biking, this bike can handle difficult terrain
  • You get quick release on both wheels for faster, easier maintenance and convenient transport, both axles are thicker than normal with 15 mm in the front and 12 mm in the back
  • It’s an excellent climber because of the mid-drive motor design (shift to lower gears to help it climb) and you should get you 40+ miles even on difficult steep terrain because of the larger battery pack
  • Both wheels feature Boost which means the hub is wider or “longer” so the spokes don’t have to be so narrow, this improves strength and is useful for riding on bumpy terrain where big rocks or drops might come up, it also improves chain alignment
  • I love that you can mount a water bottle cage on the downtube here and that the triangle space is left wide open because it makes hanging from certain kinds of car racks possible
  • Most of the cables and wires are hidden, routed internally through the frame to reduce snags and stay out of the way while riding, this along with the nicer paint makes the bike look beautiful

Cons:

  • I feel like the battery port flap (on the downtube) doesn’t stick into the frame as well as it could, I had to mess with it to get it to stay put and if you don’t take that extra time it might be easier for dirt or mud to get in there
  • Be very careful with the keys when locking or unlocking the battery, the crank arms pass right by the keyhole and could bend the keys or get snagged if you leave them in, maybe future models will position this differently
  • I’m not a huge fan of the cage style pedals, they get bent more easily and don’t offer as much surface area as a platforms like this, you may consider clip-in pedals but given the heavier weight of ebikes I have noticed that I sometimes unclip accidentally when tossing the bike around
  • While the display is more stealth than a big screen, there aren’t as many readouts like max speed, trip distance or odometer and I don’t think Bulls has a smart phone app right now to let you dig in deeper and tune the bike, they went with simplicity here
  • All mid-drive e-bikes tend to put more stress on the chain and sprockets and this one doesn’t offer shift-sensing so it’s up to you to shift smoothly to avoid mashing
  • If you haven’t ridden the bike for a while the battery goes into sleep mode so you have to press power on the downtube and then again on the display panel, not a huge gripe but it’s an extra step and could make you wonder if the battery has gone dead or something if you forget and just go for the display
  • Considering that the bike has 22 speeds and some of the gears lay the chain very close to teh chain stay, you might want to add a neoprene slap guard because the bike just comes with a basic clear sticker which will likely get banged up over time
  • The weight of the battery, motor and even the rear suspension piston is kept as low as possible, it’s all very centered on the frame as well so you get maximum balance and handling

Resources:

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Mark
4 months ago

Hi Court,

I appreciate your reviews. I currently own the izip peak ds 2015 model. I am looking to upgrade to something with more range and a more natural, smoother motor specifically for mountain biking. I am considering this Bulls or the new izip peak ds with the Bosch motor. In your opinion which is the better bike for fairly serious mountain biking. Which motor do you like better- the Bosch or the Brose?

Thanks,

Mark

Reply
Court Rye
4 months ago

Hey Mark! I like the way Bosch performs (quicker and higher torque feeling) but love how quiet and well integrated Brose it. Regarding visuals and cool factor, I’d go with Bulls. If you’re looking for a great deal on the Bosch system, however, I’d consider the Peak DS. It’s a very difficult choice but it sounds like you have enjoyed your older Peak DS and IZIP has treated you well? I’d love to hear what you get and how you like it. Considering that Bulls is international and the Brose system is used by companies like Specialized, I feel like they are nearly as trustworthy as Bosch, and the custom battery design for the E-Stream EVO FS 3 27.5 is shared by several Bulls models so I’m assuming it would continue to be available for several years?

Reply
Robert
3 months ago

Would this bike be any good for commuting at all? My commute would be 20miles roundtrip with a decent incline both ways in oregon. Theres some trails around where I live that would be amazing to ride on the way back too just not sure if it would be the right bike for commuting to work or not with some trails.

Reply
Court Rye
3 months ago

Hi Robert, I may be unique in this sense but I pretty much only ride full suspension ebikes these days because of the comfort. It sucks to have a backpack but I’d rather wear one than have a rigid frame, even hardtails can be a bit uncomfortable after a long day of work if the street is torn up and you’re riding at higher speeds like 15+ mph constantly. I think the E-Stream EVO FS 3 would be great for commuting with some trails mixed in. The only drawback is no fenders and no rack. If you get a mud fender for the fork crown to keep water out of your eyes and just wear an old backpack then you’re pretty much set… and then you’d have a bike for trail riding on the weekends. Make sure you lock the wheels up at the rack though because I believe they are both quick release.

Reply
Robert
3 months ago

Thanks for the reply! I have been in a black hole of watching your reviews and can’t decide between this bike the Evo FS 2 or the FS 45 its so hard to decide ha I dont mind carrying a backpack since I wear one anyway and not too much weight and since most these bikes dont have a cage for water bottles I have a camel back for water. Not sure what the difference is with the Evo FS3 and the FS2 but I know the FS45 has a higher speed limiter does that make it a 1400$ option viable? or are they more or less the same just higher speed limit? Ill be testing these bikes out this weekend and will be purchasing something in the next week!

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fxr3
1 week ago

Last May, I bought this brand new. I had to have a trail bike that I could use to get around town too.
It didn't work out.
Mostly because a trail bicycle did not give me the same pleasure as a dirt bike(motorcycle) and it proved to be more difficult to mount/unmount with its top tube for my arthritic hips and knees.
Both my other bikes have been step-thru.
Bike has probably less than 200 miles on it and not many more than the two fully charged to fully discharged break - in charges.
The chain has yet to be cleaned once.
Size 49cm. for someone around 6 foot.
Includes all papers, books, keys, etc from Bulls and like new Supermoto tires as well as stock knobbies, also as new and
Magura wireless dropper seat post- working perfectly- of course.
Any other specs can be found online.
I am willing to take $2500.00 firm.
Bike is located in Mesa, AZ. I can deliver it to SoCal, as I go there often. Or, I think I can help you make arrangement for a local shop to pack and ship it. They did it for a st2 I sold about 5 months ago to a guy in Boston. I could arrange for you to speak with him too, if needed, like a reference.
Want pictures- call or email me. Barry Golden 805 625 0223
barry079@gmail.com

MLB
1 week ago

You don't like working harder, but you're doing it. As YOU get stronger, the bike will too. At least in terms of giving you more boost. What you are experiencing is what I like about mid drives with good torque sensors, you have to work for the boost. Mid drives are the smallest motors used for ebikes. Good torque but the smallest hp (hp is speed, torque is climbing ability)
Yes my hub motored bikes are faster and give more boost easier. (all brands)
But I spend 90% of my rides on the mid drive because it's much more like riding a bike. ;)
My Haibike (and all others I've heard discussed that aren't speed pedalec) cuts out at 19mph and that's annoying, so I feel you on the 18mph and I don't know WHY that is when it's all digital....

To add to this, I have had an e-motion 650b for 2 years (30 speed), and love it, but off road the rear hub motor just can't cut it. So I just bought a 2016 Bulls E-Stream EVO FS 3 29er (22 speed) with Brose for $3,099 (big sale!). I've seen tons of reviews about how good the Brose motor is. I road it on a 20 mile bike ride with some hills and was not impressed. A little background, I have an ICD, and heart disease (from a virus), but I'm not too much of a slouch for a 52 year old. Anyway, on the 650B I cruise around usually on eco mode with my son at 12-15, or solo on boost and cruse at 20-23. I get a good workout, but it doesn't kill me.

With the Brose (updated) 4 power levels, on high, or any level, the basic work I have to put in to just trigger any assistance is very high for me, on top of that power cuts out at 18 MPH, that is a big difference compared with 21 MPH. So I go slower and work harder, alot harder. My average BPM was about 130 on the 650B at 20 MPH, where the Brose is more like 140-150 at 18 MPH. Be aware it didn't matter if I was going 18, or 14, the effort appeared the same. It's not all is bad with the Brose, I peddled up a very steep canal embankment in the lowest gear that I would never make with the 650B.

I thought I would sell the 650B, but I guess not. The Brose seem good for only tight off road in low gears. So I can re-live my youth on trails I use to do with my 1995 IBOC (no shocks at all). I plan on doing everything I can to modify the Brose top speed, not happy it's cutting out 2 MPH before 20.

Larry Ganz
2 weeks ago

To add to this, I have had an e-motion 650b for 2 years (30 speed), and love it, but off road the rear hub motor just can't cut it. So I just bought a 2016 Bulls E-Stream EVO FS 3 29er (22 speed) with Brose for $3,099 (big sale!). I've seen tons of reviews about how good the Brose motor is. I road it on a 20 mile bike ride with some hills and was not impressed. A little background, I have an ICD, and heart disease (from a virus), but I'm not too much of a slouch for a 52 year old. Anyway, on the 650B I cruise around usually on eco mode with my son at 12-15, or solo on boost and cruse at 20-23. I get a good workout, but it doesn't kill me.

With the Brose (updated) 4 power levels, on high, or any level, the basic work I have to put in to just trigger any assistance is very high for me, on top of that power cuts out at 18 MPH, that is a big difference compared with 21 MPH. So I go slower and work harder, alot harder. My average BPM was about 130 on the 650B at 20 MPH, where the Brose is more like 140-150 at 18 MPH. Be aware it didn't matter if I was going 18, or 14, the effort appeared the same. It's not all is bad with the Brose, I peddled up a very steep canal embankment in the lowest gear that I would never make with the 650B.

I thought I would sell the 650B, but I guess not. The Brose seem good for only tight off road in low gears. So I can re-live my youth on trails I use to do with my 1995 IBOC (no shocks at all). I plan on doing everything I can to modify the Brose top speed, not happy it's cutting out 2 MPH before 20.

Check and see if you can have the bike shop reprogram the computer? Also, check if there is a setting for changing the wheel diameter or the tire circumference, and if it has that then changing it could let you travel a little faster, even if the programming thinks it's cutting out at 18mph you'd really be doing 20.

FooDoDaddy
2 weeks ago

To add to this, I have had an e-motion 650b for 2 years (30 speed), and love it, but off road the rear hub motor just can't cut it. So I just bought a 2016 Bulls E-Stream EVO FS 3 29er (22 speed) with Brose for $3,099 (big sale!). I've seen tons of reviews about how good the Brose motor is. I road it on a 20 mile bike ride with some hills and was not impressed. A little background, I have an ICD, and heart disease (from a virus), but I'm not too much of a slouch for a 52 year old. Anyway, on the 650B I cruise around usually on eco mode with my son at 12-15, or solo on boost and cruse at 20-23. I get a good workout, but it doesn't kill me.

With the Brose (updated) 4 power levels, on high, or any level, the basic work I have to put in to just trigger any assistance is very high for me, on top of that power cuts out at 18 MPH, that is a big difference compared with 21 MPH. So I go slower and work harder, alot harder. My average BPM was about 130 on the 650B at 20 MPH, where the Brose is more like 140-150 at 18 MPH. Be aware it didn't matter if I was going 18, or 14, the effort appeared the same. It's not all is bad with the Brose, I peddled up a very steep canal embankment in the lowest gear that I would never make with the 650B.

I thought I would sell the 650B, but I guess not. The Brose seem good for only tight off road in low gears. So I can re-live my youth on trails I use to do with my 1995 IBOC (no shocks at all). I plan on doing everything I can to modify the Brose top speed, not happy it's cutting out 2 MPH before 20.

Rudder
4 weeks ago

I'm using a Felt Massload CL-KA89 kickstand on my Bulls E-Stream Evo FS 3 27.5 Plus.
I think it's made to fit on Felt Lebowske or Outfitter bikes. ($24)
It requires the 2 threaded mounting points built into the frame just forward of rear axle.
http://www.feltb2b.com/kickstand-massload-lebowske-cl-ka89-outfitter-9000265

Rudder
4 weeks ago

I have a 49 cm frame and want to add a Dropper Seat Post Which ones fit easily, works well, and lasts a long time? My comfortable seat rail height is 195 mm above the bottom of the seat post clamp. I pushed the seat post down the seat tube and it bottoms out after accepting 238mm of it.
Has anyone installed one?

Steve Pierce
4 weeks ago

Just received a new 2016 Bulls 27.5 ebike from SanDiegoFlyRides last Friday. Shipping only took a week and the bike arrived with just very minor damage. Front disk rotor was slightly bent and a couple of small dings to the paint job but overall in good shape. Thanks for the fast delivery.
The bike looks to be of very high quality. I weigh about 265 and was concerned with the suspension holding enough air pressure. Had to pump up the rear RockShox to 300 psi to get the right amount of sag. Seems to be holding the pressure. The ride is very plush. The drive system will get you to 20mph in a hurry. I have to get used to that because I ended up flying down a tight trail way too fast. 20mph through trees and winding trails is pretty intimidating. The battery is huge and well hidden in the frame. After riding for 2 hours, the battery indicator had only dropped one bar.
I am very please with this bike overall. It feels and looks like a serious mountain bike.
Very good price drop on the 2016 models also.

Steve

Over50
4 weeks ago

I just stumbled upon the new reise and muller supercharger. It seem to have the distance I am looking for with the new dual battery setup built into the frame for the main stream look. Just wandering about the Gates belt drive setup and its reliability...Anyone list some pros and cons on any of these setups. Also the supercharger already comes with fox front suspension forks.
I'm a big fan of the belt drive. I have it on the Charger and on my human powered bike (Spot bike with Shimano Alfine hub). So far they have been very reliable and it eliminates a lot of maintenance. What I'm becoming less of a fan of is the Nuvinci hub that comes with the belt drive bikes for R&M. At least in my case, the Nuvinci leaves me wanting a bit more gear range. While it is simple to use and so far reliable, if I were making my purchase decision again I might reconsider the Nuvinci version and select the chain driven Shimano 11 speed (Rohloff would be overkill for my flat terrain use). I kinda wish R&M would offer a belt drive version with the Shimano Alfine 11 speed IGH. Seems like that would be a good option for someone like me who prefers an IGH paired with a carbon belt but who really doesn't care for the Nuvinci.

RookieCommuter
1 month ago

I just stumbled upon the new reise and muller supercharger. It seem to have the distance I am looking for with the new dual battery setup built into the frame for the main stream look. Just wandering about the Gates belt drive setup and its reliability. The down side is it doesn't come out till December. The plus side is the price compared to the st2. Also with the St5 coming out theres a lot to think over. Anyone list some pros and cons on any of these setups. Also the supercharger already comes with fox front suspension forks.

Fran Fabrizio
1 month ago

I think it's pretty apparent at this point that they did not expect to sell out the entire first container as pre-orders. All the language they had on their site during the pre-order period and all that has happened since points to this. They said that all pre-orders would arrive late August and ship soon thereafter, and that all pre-orders would have the upgraded brakes. Clearly they were expecting that pre-orders would only be a fraction of that first shipment. Oops. Growing pains. Will be interesting to see if the company learns from this, which will be shown both in how they handle rollouts of future generations of bikes but also in how they treat those of us who do not have our bikes yet and feel excluded from the brake upgrade that was described.

There's some business 101 going on here. They have a product and price point that has generated high demand and currently has little competition in the market. This is why we're all willing to put up with the headaches - because we want the bike we've decided is the right bike for us and there's nowhere else to go get it at this price. So that's opened an opportunity where a company can currently do things like work connections in China and do some thoughtful design and sourcing of parts and put together a compelling bike package that seriously undercuts the competitor's pricing and entices people to pre-order and be early adopters. That gap will close, it always does - e-bikes will continue to get more popular, tech will get better, part prices will come down as manufacturing increases, and that market opportunity will be harder and harder to exploit. Of course there are companies right now looking at the CrossCurrent S and figuring out how can I assemble that cheaper or build a better bike for the same price? They'll eventually figure it out, then Juiced will need to either have to find a different, less mature segment of the market to attack, or find other ways to differentiate themselves.

This is where good customer service now could pay dividends later. As consumers that's what would make us loyal repeat buyers. On the other hand, it could be a perfectly valid business plan to decide that generating repeat buyers is not a priority and that they're always going to look to ride that wave of bringing the first truly affordable well-spec'ed bikes to different segments of the e-bike market, or some other market altogether, such that they aren't competing with many other products in the marketplace and therefore they will continue to have a customer stream. As a company, they have limited resources and although of course most companies want to do well in all aspects of their business, these niche companies in immature markets rarely have the resources and experience to pull it all off, so they play to their strengths (which in Juiced's case is clearly on the design side). As consumers, we of course want it all - great designs at a great price with great customer service sooner than everyone else. There are very few companies who figure out how to do that well consistently while in immature markets. Once things become more commodity it's relatively easier to do that, and you see lots of market consolidation at that point. There are way too many small e-bike companies right now - the marketplace will work itself out and it will be interesting to observe how that plays out over the next several years.

RookieCommuter
1 month ago

Hello everyone. New to ebikes/bikes in general other then having them as a kid. I have done a lot of research and looking at several different brands. The two in particular is the optibike pioneer carbon and stromer st2. So lets start by my specs and purpose for the bike. I am a 5'5 male 160 lbs. Not very active due to the busyness of life. I live in Atlanta and due to the new beltline being built and traffic in the city I really want to "ditch" the car as much as possible and commute by bike. Using the bike as my main transportation.

With that being said most of my biking will be within 24-30 miles max round trip of my house. With that being said I don't want to be limited as I get in better shape with going further. Also we have hot summers and not looking to be soaked in sweat when I get where I am going (work, grocery store, out on town, etc).

I want maximum range, comfort, handling, exceptional quality built. So I have come down the stromer st2 and optibike. Heres the aftermarket parts I am looking to pair with the bike to achieve desired outcome. The Kinekt seat posts and fox suspensions forks. From what I have read these upgrades will make a world of difference. What I like most about the pioneer carbon is the weight, thumb throttle, and I can buy a extra battery to achieve the same max distance as the st2. The biggest pro about the stromer is the reputation they seem to have as being the best built bike on the market.

Open to other brands also but really like that both of these have a appearance of just a beefier main stream bike. Lets hear some opinions. I am here to learn.

Kathy Smith
1 month ago

OK. We all have our riding styles. My wife never shifts hears either althoughshe learned to drive on a 4 speed Ford. A hub motor may fit you better, and my thinking is a geared unit is good for non-shifting. However, the small wheel on a 20" is like a lower gear too. Limits top speed, but easier for starts and hills.

The US laws, such as they are, and restrictive Euro policy on throttles have made it difficult for main stream bike makers to build models that can be sold in either market, so we do see more throttle-less ebikes here.

If you remove the battery on some of the heavier bikes, they might meet your weight limits for carrying upstairs. Keep looking.
Yes, I'll keep looking...

harryS
1 month ago

OK. We all have our riding styles. My wife never shifts hears either althoughshe learned to drive on a 4 speed Ford. A hub motor may fit you better, and my thinking is a geared unit is good for non-shifting. However, the small wheel on a 20" is like a lower gear too. Limits top speed, but easier for starts and hills.

The US laws, such as they are, and restrictive Euro policy on throttles have made it difficult for main stream bike makers to build models that can be sold in either market, so we do see more throttle-less ebikes here.

If you remove the battery on some of the heavier bikes, they might meet your weight limits for carrying upstairs. Keep looking.

Camac
1 month ago

I don't think the battery level has much to do with it. I've had my E-stream EVO/FS 3 29 for 8 months now and during that time I have only once used more than 20% of the battery capacity. Rides have been generally 25km with some up to 40k. Since the upgrade to the latest software and controller 2 months ago which gave another 4 levels of power I have had power to the motor cut out on 5 or 6 occasions. These occasions have been when I'm using full power, high cadence, and climbing hills. The power to the motor has cut out but the motor has stayed connected to the drive so I'm pedaling against the drive too. The agent is 2 hours away so it will be a week or so before I get down to see him.

MarkH
2 months ago

hi,
I am looking for someone who uses an e-bike off road. I currently own a Cannondale electric bike ( Cannondale Kinneto ) and I am really happy with it. I only use it on road.
But now I am thinking about starting ride off road. But I am not sure about my current one off road. If anybody is riding off road with an e-bike please help. If this bie can't handle off road suggest some bikes that can(I will need it to take on the road too. Since if I buy a new one I will be selling the current.).

I have a Felt Outfitter, which I use both on the road and on trails. It has taken everything I have thrown at it,including muddy singletrack, stream fordings, and riding on soft sand at the beach. With the assist, I am also able to use it in place of my road bike. I am not sure how it would handle extreme downhilling, as it is not suspended, but with its fat tires, it may. My technical riding ability will have to improve before I try it.

SuperGoop
2 months ago

@tinotino This is the pannier I bought. I picked it up from a local Sportchek store.

http://www.cheap-bicycles-online.com/louis-garneau-beta-stream-pannier

Denis Shelston
2 months ago

By Michael Skopes. August 2017
With permission

A 2017 E-Bike Adventure

One day, not so long ago, I opened a door to enter an area where I am employed. I was hit, full on, with the fact that I no longer have any passion for what it is I do there. My days there are only a passing of time spent wondering about other things more important to me; my family, my home,...me, and other more fun activities.

At the same time, I appreciate the compensation that my job affords me - money and health care benefits. You know, all that boring stuff like an IRA, 401k, and such. But, all that, is for the most part, pleasureless. The most pleasing aspect of that crap is the toys I can buy to make my life more FUN.

The following sentence involves a subject, which to me, borders on the surreal. Retirement...is...just...around...the...corner. Hell, retirement is something old people do. I don't qualify as an old person. At least, not in my mind, I don't.

I don't know how my twenties turned into my sixties so quickly. My brain, my heart, and my soul, all tell me it's time for another game of 500 in the park, or a few high dives off of top board at my hometown swimming pool. But, uh oh...the deep end no longer has those old diving boards! In fact, the entire pool has been completely re-built and almost unrecognizable. And, unfortunately, what my body tells me about physical activity is not quite the same as what my brain, heart, and soul communicate.

Go for a long endorphin filled cross country type run? Uh uh. Don't even think about it. My lower back and knees won't take the pounding. Damn, I loved running so much. Extend my body airborne for that long pass at the goal line like I once often did? Not a good idea. Hitting the green grass wearing pads at one time was exhilarating, not debilitating. Hey, how about attacking a radical mogul course on freshly fallen snow? Get real fella! Not anymore. Oh, the knees, the hips, the lower back. Skiing became my all time favorite winter activity while in my mid to late twenties.

Get this, though. Physical exertion is far from a thing of my youthful past. Hooray for the bicycle! Hip hip hooray for the electric bicycle! I'll get to the e-bike in just a minute. Allow me to back track for a moment.

One of my very first loves, as a young boy, was learning how to ride a bicycle. And, after mastering that marvelous activity, the extended range that became my daily excitement, grew longer and longer. Soon, I disappeared from my parents' view for hours at a time as I biked with my pals from one end of town to the other. Minutes, hours, and miles meant nothing to us. We had trusty mechanical steeds whose rolling wheels seemed capable of endless, small town, summer time adventures. If we weren't kicking up dust, pebbles, and basic dirt while racing around Chapin Park's baseball field, we were busy slamming on our brakes while screaming down swimming pool hill.

That excellent downhill activity, of melting bicycle tire rubber, left twenty foot long black streaks on the blacktop. Bald tires? We never cared. That was part of the deal. And when those rubber burning slides ended, we just might opt to take a little detour out to the long abandoned strip mines. Out there, on the outskirts of town, the giant coal digging machines of old left us with huge mounds of gray/white earth. Over time, outstanding trails developed throughout those sometimes treacherous hills which were intertwined with deep, blue pools of water that stretched for hundreds of feet. Riding those paths brought many a boy, and a few girls, to the point of total exhaustion, and in some cases...broken frames and fractured bones.

Yes, my childhood relationship with my Monark bicycle was a love affair. Many of my friends had that same love affair. Several of us participated in the annual Corn Festival bicycle parade. We decorated our bikes with crepe paper, flags and banners. Some kids wore costumes. I donned a Marlon Brando type motorcycle cap - the tough guy look like from his fifties movie, "The Wild One".

But that love affair broke my heart when some criminal stole my beloved Monark. Sadness became my middle name. Consolation on the part of my mother didn't even help. And I adored my mother, and how she did so much for me and my two sisters. My father offered a matter of fact response to my long face with a few well chosen words and a simple pat on my shoulder. All that did little to mend my deep psychological wound. But Dad had a quiet way about him that endeared me to him just as much as Mom.

In time, a replacement two-wheeler appeared. That tale is one whose details I won't divulge in this story. I would rather keep that for anyone interested in reading my book "My Little Skinny Greek Life: On Liberty Street". Find it on Amazon. I don't want to spoil that story here. What I will go into here, is the flash forward to today.

FLASH!

For years, various physical problems have kept me from fully enjoying the activity that I had loved for so much of my life. Before losing the ability to travel by bicycle, I had the pleasure of making two long road trips. The first, at age twenty nine and turning thirty, went on for 1500 miles from California to Illinois.

Some of the information written in an unsolicited newspaper article about that tour - going all the way to Maine, down to Florida, and back to California - never happened. Those plans had to be changed for several reasons. I actually can't recall the primary reason. It may have been that being a touring novice, I bit off more than I could pedal.

I have read, in my current research, that the number one reason for many new bike touring enthusiasts cutting their tours short is because of unrealistic goals. Their mental and physical preparations couldn't match up with their lofty plans. Really. Just imagine coming up with the idea of riding a heavily outfitted bicycle for 7,000 miles without ever having done any touring at all prior to that. Hmm...you see what I mean? However, I did go over 1,500 miles on my Centurion two wheeler.

My second major distance bicycle adventure took me from Monterey, California south to Los Angeles and specifically, Northridge to attend a Super Bowl party. However, I only managed to put in about 155 miles because I strained my knee and had to grab a bus for part of the remaining distance.

So, as I mentioned above, hip hip hooray for the electric bike. Because now, I am so happy to say that I have returned to the joyful activity of riding a long distance tour by bicycle. I am in the middle of one as I write this story. It is forty miles this time. Nowhere near 1,500...yet.

This time, so many calendar years later and with bike technology that is light years ahead of 1982, I now ride a RadRover from Rad Power Bikes, out of Seattle, Washington. They have created a beauty that comes in two colors; black or white. I chose black. It is an electrically powered fat bike which I have modified to fit my practical and esthetic needs.

It is known as a fat bike partly because it has four inch wide knobby, fat, tires. It is, in essence, a mountain bike which is very capable as a road bike at the same time. The 750 watt motor and the 48 volt battery can take me up to 25 miles with my leg power added. With a second battery stowed away in my Burley Nomad trailer, my distance doubles. When that runs out, I hopefully am already camped or in a hotel where I can re-charge for the next day of travel.

My interest in bicycle touring was recently re-kindled by stumbling upon a few videos on YouTube. Seeing the various examples of which panniers to purchase, how and what to pack in them, brought back memories of my past pannier preparations. There is a certain excitement related to the process of deciding upon what to buy, where, and how much to spend. So, familiar tour preparation became a big part of my daily thoughts. This was particularly true while at my personally unsatisfying job.

Every day, while at work, my mind wandered away from vocational duties to adventurous daydreams. I couldn't help it. Every day, as I commuted to and from work, all I could think about was bike touring. Could I even physically do it anymore? I would soon find out.

Suffering through the slow stop and go crawl of heavy rush hour traffic turned into something completely different. My mind turned off the disgust associated with this daily grind and welcomed the fantasies I conjured up instead. Rather than mutter under my breath my roadway discontent with hundreds of other cars and trucks that surrounded me, I was smiling internally at the prospect of my next, long awaited, two wheeled adventure. Hot damn!

Well, the days passed by. Each night after work I would stitch together more and more ideas that percolated in my mind in the hopes of making my fantasy adventure come true. I pulled down my old Centurion Super Le Mans twelve speed that had been hanging in the garage for years and started the process of giving it new life. Yes, the very same bike that took me to Illinois from California thirty five years ago. It needed new tubes and tires for sure, and a good amount of service all totaling $240. That figure was just under what I paid for the bike new from Joslyn's Bike Shop in Monterey thirty seven years earlier. Ouch.

After that, an expense that ultimately turned out to be an unnecessary one, I rode it around my neighborhood for about a mile with no bags other than the old handlebar bag. It felt very familiar and good. The next day, I added the matching rear Eclipse panniers I had stored away from those past tours. I partially filled them with a few items to ease into a touring weight. I rode for three miles. That was not bad, but I did feel the difference and the need to get into better shape if a real extended tour were to take place. By the way, I tried desperately to figure out a way to once again use those great old blue bags on my Rover. I couldn't quite get their proprietary configuration to conform to my new ride satisfactorily, so I had to let them go back into storage after the third and final test run coming up. Bummer!

The following day, for that final test run, I went out for six miles. This time I had to walk up a few hills and also stop for a good rest or two along the way. It occurred to me, that there was no way I could realistically take this sentimental bike for a long tour ever again. My hopes faded. The idea of embarking on another tour adventure looked pretty much impossible. Then, I stumbled upon the e-bike world and everything changed.

I discovered a video, among many others, that was created by a young man named Adamm Jarvis. He produced an interesting review of the RadRover. It can be found on YouTube easily enough. I watched it a couple of times and thought the Rover was worth a better look, so I went to the Rad web site to learn more. I was impressed with the company and its young founders. Still, I needed to look around for other choices, which I did, just to be sure I was satisfied with my research.

I kept going back to Rad. I spoke with them on the phone a few times, telling them my plans and they thought the Rover would work best for my touring idea. I saw more reviews - EBR, Electric Bike Review, was another good one.

I returned to Adamm's video. There was something about it that spoke to me. It had an easy going vocal delivery by Adamm himself, music, and good production value. Along with the bike itself, featured in the video, that twenty something minute video helped me make up my mind. The Rover is what I wanted.

It is now June, 30th 2017. Today, I have pedaled my Rover twenty miles to the Sycamore Campground at the beach near Malibu, CA. Roughly ten miles on roads and streets, and ten miles on the great trail from inland to the beach. I am the only person in the hike and bike area. My campsite begins to take shape.

This may only be a shorter overnight adventure, but boy, am I ever loving it. The ride was wonderful - not hot at all, but perfect. I took this trail part way three other times. Having taken this trail now for the fourth time, and adding the camp out element to it, I am filled with a sense of adventure. I've longed for this touring/camping feeling. This short bike tour brings back all the experiences that my other longer tours gave me - scenery, fresh air, camping, exercising by bike, saying hello to new people as they go about their camping fun. The little kids on their bikes smile as they ride past me among the camp sites. I think one of those smiling little ones was the same one who woke up early the next morning and would not stop screaming. Seriously, for well over an hour, I struggled with those screams and the incessant small dog barking that complimented the shrieking. So much for a peaceful way to wake up with the great outdoors.

My penthouse suite tent is roomy and functional, but it isn't sound proof. It has enough room to hold my Rover and trailer all secured, dry and safe without a need to lock it up. I think it is fine with me right beside it. Even so, ever since my first bike was stolen so many years ago, I have never forgotten the hollow feeling of having lost such a treasured possession to some cold hearted thief. However, in my actual garage at home, my Rover is kept securely locked.

I kid around when asked about the space inside my voluminous tent.
"I have a garage, a bedroom, kitchen, and bathroom."
When people hear me say that, they often chuckle. It's true. I really make good use of the giant tent...I create a garage, a bedroom, a kitchen, and a bathroom within the nylon walls.

Many a campground will have a tendency to gross me out when it comes to the bathroom facilities. I decided to take my self contained idea to new heights by incorporating the survivalist style bathroom. I have a sliced section of a pool noodle circling the rim of a small bucket lined with a plastic waste bag, a hospital urinal, a hospital wash basin (I've spent a few days in hospital care recently), plenty of t. p., small trash bags, wet wipes, wash cloths, towels, soap, and I fill up one or two gallon plastic bottles with water from the campground source. All these comforts ease the hassle of having to walk to the facilities in the middle of the night if necessary. In fact, I am now so spoiled by this, I can't help but think that this is the only way to camp by bicycle.

Having my indoor kitchen is convenient, too. Boiling water for morning coffee without going outside is great. Oatmeal and coffee at my fingertips - perfect. My only concern is if Yogi Bear's cousins come snooping around. I had better start keeping the bulk of my minimalist food stuffs outside during the night. Ya think?

My bedroom set up is an important one. I have to be comfortable with my necessary pillow configuration, and mattress combo. My ground tarp is the first protective layer followed by the tent floor, a one half inch thick layer of foam rubber, topped with my air mattress, the Klymit Insulated Static V Sleeping Pad. I researched the mattresses and knew I had to have a top of the line product. It inflates with only about twelve deep breaths. The Klymit I bought is not their most expensive version. That said, I was not going to sacrifice my comfort to save a few bucks by going any lower.

My new sleeping bag, the OutdoorsmanLab sleeping bag is not of the mummy type. I feel way too restricted if and when I can't sprawl as part of my comfort zone. The bag also allows for poking your feet out when it gets too hot. I like that for sure. Everything is lightweight, and compact. That, my friends, is more than just desirable when biking. It is imperative.

There is so much room to work in my tent garage. I'm away from any flying pests or crawling bugs as I work. I fabricated a kick stand/tent floor protector out of a plastic coffee can lid, cardboard and gaff tape. I need to prevent holes in the tent floor. Spreading out my tools and parts inside my tent near my Rover and Nomad bicycle trailer makes it easier to be a do-it-yourselfer. Very convenient.

Here are some thoughts as the sun sinks behind the dry mountain a few yards west of my camp site.

We're taught from an early age to share. Share that Popsicle, or candy bar. Back in 1982, a lanky gray haired gentleman walked out of a small grocery store in Glacier National Park and saw I was bicycle touring. He had just unwrapped his candy bar and offered to share it with me. I think it was a Hershey bar - kindness.

"Here, have a bite of my Slim Jim, or half of my sandwich." That's a comment that may sound familiar to many of us from times past. Similarly, at another stop at a campground in northern Montana, an older retired couple, who upon learning I was in the middle of a cross country bicycle tour, offered dinner and homemade blueberry pie in their motor home camper. I will never forget the look on the woman's face, and her exclamation;

"You're doing what?? You must be hungry!"

I find it touching when on the receiving end of kindness and generosity. At the same time, I see the compassion and satisfaction on the faces of those who offer it. Those moments lead me into a more spiritual place where I often ponder the bigger picture, and how little things we do can have so much meaning.

Ah, the wonder of it all. The world going by at 70 to 80 miles per hour in a car is quite different from the world I see at 5 to 25 miles an hour by bicycle. The world I witness from a slower perspective has a more complete way of becoming a part of me. I see more. I hear more. I feel more. I acutely sense the wonder of it all.

I guess my philosophical nature comes from being Greek. My ancestors managed to produce a few good ones way back when. I'm sure you can recall their names.

This trip is only the beginning. I'd like to make several of these e-bike journeys to help re-capture some of the youthful times I loved so much. I want to retire soon and take advantage of the physical abilities I still have before they wither away never to be again. I can't see myself spending anymore precious days than I absolutely have to working in an unsatisfying job. I want to feel the wind against my face as I bike along a secluded trail. I want to hear the birds calling, see the squirrels, lizards, and rabbits dart across the trail in front of me as they rush toward their own little palaces. I want to cross the shallow stream that meanders across the trail in three different locations and get wet, muddy, and laugh about it to myself.

I travel alone. I don't mind the solitude, the mud, the sweat, the tough hills, and the occasional mechanical repair. They're all part of the smile. My smile. And I will savor all of these moments as they find me - as nature comes to me. I won't wonder, one day, why I didn't take advantage of the mountains, the beaches, the nights under the stars. Nope. That little boy who ate up the streets of small town USA while pedaling on his Monark still exists. He is just a little bigger, wiser, and definitely more gray. He continues to occupy the space between my ears and the heart of my soul.

So, this is my camp/biking story that replaced the original, longer, Santa Barbara round trip which had to be cancelled. Some of you have been waiting for this documentary of sorts for too long. I apologize for the delay. Perhaps I will get to the Santa Barbara adventure before my legs tell me to give it up. I hope to make that tour soon. For now, I hope you found this little story interesting. Perhaps even inspiring. Thanks for taking the time to share my adventure.

alesandra leckie
2 months ago

I did the same thing this weekend and rode both the Brose and Bosch versions of the Bulls bikes. I ended up going with the eStream Evo 45 FS (demo) -- so, you probably rode my bike! I took it for a 10mi ride and really had fun with it. I like the riding position better than the Evo8 and the FS was very comfortable. While I didn't plan on getting a MTB -- I really liked the flexibility it offered. Despite the bigger tires, it still rode great on the street.
What is the range on your bike, also is the shifting a issue? I'm looking at the
BULLS E-STREAM EVO 2 27.5 PLUS 2017, any comments on that bike.

Ravi Kempaiah
2 months ago

Totally off subject observance...

While I think this is a neat bike, I was captivated by the objet d’art in the background. It's not often one sees something like that occupying a spot on a muddy looking stream bank. Anyone know where this is?

It was shot in Netherlands, the biking capital of the world.

1/1
Sonoboy
2 months ago

Totally off subject observance...

While I think this is a neat bike, I was captivated by the objet d’art in the background. It's not often one sees something like that occupying a spot on a muddy looking stream bank. Anyone know where this is?

Craig Crowder
2 months ago

Affected models:

-2017 BULLS E-STREAM EVO 2 27.5 PLUS
- 2017 BULLS E-STREAM EVO 2 FS 27.5 PLUS
- 2017 BULLS E-STREAM EVO 3 27.5 PLUS
- 2017 BULLS E-STREAM EVO 3 29
- 2017 BULLS E-STREAM EVO 45 FS 27.5
- 2017 BULLS CROSS LITE E
- 2017 BULLS DAIL E GRINDER 45
- 2017 BULLS SIX50 E 1.5
- 2017 BULLS SIX50 E 2 STREET
- 2017 BULLS SIX50+ E FS 2 27.5
- 2017 BULLS SIX50+ E FS 3 27.5

James Alderson
2 months ago

I like my Bosch-powered LebowskE (not a CX motor though), but I like my Bulls E-Stream EVO FS3 Plus with Brose a lot more. I've never ridden the Specialized, but it has the same motor (tuned differently) as my Bulls and comes with Plus tires. If there's a chance you'll eventually find yourself on more technical trails like I did, this is the pick of your three, IMO.

I really like the Bulls Plus bike, but I found the non plus bike from last year for 3K.. the current 27.5 Plus is 4600... I read there are some bigger tires you can put on the non plus, but for 1600 bucks more, is the plus worth the extra???

Lastly, I agree 100% with Bicyclista about the local service aspect, and am equally perplexed about the "non-transferable" warranty on a Demo. My best guess is that it was purchased and returned, making it a used bike, Without a warranty, they should charge at least $1000 less!

Well that would be my guess too. I am guessing its a used bike they are simply selling as its a 7500 dollar bike and I am getting it for 4600, but thats if its a demo. If its used, which I will check on, then I agree. 3500 would be reasonable and I would buy it in a heartbeat.

LimboJim
2 months ago

Thats a great point on the bike being useless without the battery. Now, two things come to mind about this though. One is that you can repack a battery at any battery shop from what I understand. My biggest concern in buying a Specialized Turbo Levo or a Bulls E-Stream is that the battery is built into the frame and I am not sure how long I can expect these companies to support the market for those batteries in the future. Two is that I have been wondering if it might be better to buy something like the mountain bike models from Luna Cycle where they take an existing good quality full suspension bike and strap on a high power mid motor setup that can be removed should it become useless or need to be replaced with the newest version.
The main problem with Luna's eMTBs, IMO, is that they're using powerful but not very sophisticated motors that tend to lag on kicking in and easing off. They're also much more herky-jerky than Bosch, Yahama, and Brose as a result.

This, along with the protruding nature of the motors' placement in front and/or below the bikes' cranks, can make for some tricky traversing on technical trails (downright dangerous, in my experience). Even if you keep to "easy" trails, don't ever try to hop a log or that motor will catch it and the bike will come to a dead stop (but you will not)!

Motor and battery replacements might be easier and cheaper through Luna, but I believe that well-established bike manufacturers will support older models for many years to come...

LimboJim
2 months ago

Hey, I have done a LOT of reading and watching videos etc, and I might just be asking this to feel like I am getting some advice from those who might have experience, or maybe just to write my thoughts down and see if I have already made a decision while doing so.. lol.

I am looking for an e-mtb to do (in order or priority) 1) fitness riding for weight loss 2) Fun rides with the kids in greenways and parkways around the area and 3) Light trail riding. I don't want to be a jumping crazy speedster youngster, but would be fun to get out on some easy trails.

I have a couple options local, and one that I would have to order. They vary in price, but not enough that it will sway me completely, but is a factor. Looking for feedback on which way any of you guys went if you were looking at the same or similar bikes.

1) Specialized Turbo Levo Expert Demo - this is a demo from a shop around the corner from me. That is a huge consideration when it comes to maintaining the bike, however, comes with no warranty as it is not transferable. The bike is $4600 plus taxes etc. The battery size is about average and the brose motor seems half decently reliable.

2) Felt LEBOWSKe 10 - clearance unit from a shop about 30 minutes from me in the downtown area. Stil, good access to maintenance and warranty work if required. It's a fat bike with no suspension except the big ass tires on it, but unsure if that is enough to do light off road stuff. The warranty is a great factor as is the bosch motor. The bike is $3500 on clearance plus taxes.

3) Bulls E-Stream EVO FS 3 27.5 - This is a bike that I would be ordering from a dealer in NYC. There are zero dealers around me that carry this bike so I would be taking a chance on the warranty. This is NOT the Plus version with the bigger tires, but is still a great bike with great reviews. Its on clearance as well at $3100 but not taxes and 100 dollars delivery drop shipped from Bulls in Germany. I am concerned with the distance for warranty, but the price is pretty good.

So, that didn't help me... I still see the good and bad with each.

Any thoughts???
Like Fitzy, I've reduced my load from 220 to 185 lbs riding my eMTBs. I live on a narrow, busy scenic byway with no real bike lanes, so I avoid riding on roads. I live right next to ~3000 acres of State Park with singletrack trails, fire roads and ATV trails galore, however, so I seldom have to...

My first ebike purchase was made assuming I'd never get back to the challenging, technical trails I rode in my younger daze - like you, I just wanted to get back on a bike, get fitter and maybe ride some "easy" trails. It was an "original" Sondors - single-speed, fat tires, but low torque and limited range.

I quickly outgrew it, however, and soon got into increasingly offroad-capable eMTBs. Now I'm not only riding the trails of my youth, I'm delving deeper, climbing higher, and riding twice as long as I ever did, even in my 20s and 30s. I've never been particularly athletic, but eMTBs nake me feel like I am!

I like my Bosch-powered LebowskE (not a CX motor though), but I like my Bulls E-Stream EVO FS3 Plus with Brose a lot more. I've never ridden the Specialized, but it has the same motor (tuned differently) as my Bulls and comes with Plus tires. If there's a chance you'll eventually find yourself on more technical trails like I did, this is the pick of your three, IMO.

On a well designed and equipped bike like Specialized, Plus tires make mincemeat out of rock gardens/roots etc., yet offer much tighter handling than fat tires. I have a full suspension Haibike with 27.5x2.4 tires, too, and come back from technical rides on it sore from the added jostling that my cushy Plus eMTB virtually negates.

The primary advantage of the Bulls is its 650WH battery. The LebowskE is only 400WH, and I believe the Levo is ~500WH. Again, you may eventually find that extended range to be a godsend.

Lastly, I agree 100% with Bicyclista about the local service aspect, and am equally perplexed about the "non-transferable" warranty on a Demo. My best guess is that it was purchased and returned, making it a used bike, Without a warranty, they should charge at least $1000 less!

DiGiTaLGrAvEDiGGA
2 months ago

lol Court your always talking about bottle cages however most mountain bikers don't use a water bottle cage due to the camelback! Bottle cages are used either for commuter bikes or road bikes, just saying bro! Awesome videos! :)

Michael Allen
2 months ago

Love your channel! Your knowledge of ebikes is rivaled by your passion and positive attitude. Keep it up!
I'm thinking of getting the 2017 Bulls FS 3 27.5 Plus, but I found a deal online for a 2016 FS 3 27.5 (at $3100!). Tempted to buy it, but I heard the 2017 Plus model has much better handling with the extra thick tires. So it got me wondering...could I buy the 2016 model and slap some thicker tires on it? Maybe a 27.5 x 2.5? I asked Bulls via the contact form on their website but have yet to hear back.

n7slc
3 months ago

Came in really late to comment on this review. I've got bad knees and as I get older I'm not having the fun on a bike as I used to. I can no longer keep up with my 22yr old son and I feel really bad when he's got to stop and wait for his ol' man. That said, I've been looking at the '17 Bulls EVO3 FS+ and when I found the '16 model on sale for $3,099 free shipping and no tax, I jumped on it. Thank you for the review. This helped me greatly in my decision to buy.

Marc Gonsalves
11 months ago

Court I love your channel. Great review! I'm very interested in this bike, I like the simplicity of it and the fact that it doesn't scream "E-bike". I do wish it had an odometer though. Maybe I'm nitpicking but I like knowing how many miles are on the bike. Can anyone recommend a good bike computer with odometer distance?

ramses baez
4 months ago

yes it does. i have one 520 and use it in my 2 difrent bikes. and i have a profile for each one. this is a great gps odometer devise . if you can get one. you will love it. for shure.

Marc Gonsalves
11 months ago

Crazy Lenny's Ebikes I looked hard at the Garmins, specifically the edge 25 and 520, but it looks like those don't store odometer distance on the device, I guess it's on your home computer after you transfer your rides. I'm looking at the Lezyne computers now.

Crazy Lenny's Ebikes
11 months ago

Garmin makes very nice GPS systems along with cadence and speed sensors. You could also use it as an odometer.

chgofirefighter
12 months ago

Why do they make these bike with such a weak motor? 250 watts? Many Ebikes are now 500 watts some actually have more. Also, the bike is limited to only 20 mph but in terrain you wouldn't want to go any faster I suppose for safety. I love the pedalec systems myself 28 mph, good efficient motors. They should make an all purpose bike for commuting with a good motor, 500 watt, electronic display, and 28 mph now that would be a great bike

Crazy Lenny's Ebikes
11 months ago

Robert,
You would enjoy this bike. We have it at the store. Stop by and take it for a spin.

Propel Electric Bikes
12 months ago

I agree with the other posters below. It's especially important to look at torque values. Just because your burning energy (ie Watts) does not mean your producing power. Yamaha produces a motor that you're speaking of, but I prefer the Bosch system personally. - Chris

Fer Enda
12 months ago

Mid-drive systems are much more torquier than rear-hub's. Having said that, a 250W mid-drive will smoke a 500W rear-hub going uphill. Also, a 250W mid-drive is more efficient and thus will give you a much greater range compared to any 500W motor. I see your point, but I think 250W mid-drive is the sweet spot.

jc hg
12 months ago

Awsome, very nice. I've got the plus version and it is incredible. Very good review as always.

Mathieu Bouvier
12 months ago

agreed, this channel BADLY need drone footage, lets get the DJI Mavric to work

ol1bit
12 months ago

Dang, Nice review! My 2014 evo-650b is feeling old, so goes great, no issues over 1000 miles, but off road i'd like more torque.

Mark Woods
12 months ago

Another great review, thanks. I wish someonw would make a full suspension street/trail bike.

Propel Electric Bikes
11 months ago

Yeah. That Delite is the stuff dream are made of ;) I feel very fortunate I will get to enjoy our demo bike. But if I had to pick a bike to own it would be very high on my list.

Mark Woods
11 months ago

The Riese-Muller with the belt drive dual battery with full suspension is now my dream bike. A little out of my price range for now but maybe in a year....

Propel Electric Bikes
11 months ago

I think we are starting to see more and more. I listed some bikes below you should check out the below bikes:

http://propelbikes.com/product/moustache-starckbike-asphalt/
http://propelbikes.com/product/riese-muller-delite/

Adam Samadi
12 months ago

chgofirefighter I live in London and we have the worst roads to commute put holes every where and mainly all hills

chgofirefighter
12 months ago

YEAH me too! I purchased the Stromer ST2 and I have encountered nothing but issues ever since my purchase. Chicago's streets are not like the streets in Europe, better paved, etc. The Stromer brand needs to be adjusted for the American market, our major cities don't have the best communiting streets. They need to add suspension etc. But I love its 500 watt motor and performance. No other bike performs like the Stromer but things are improving w other manufacturers

FRANK ROBY
12 months ago

top Quality Bulls bike nice 150 travel comfy.

Fat Bike Freak
12 months ago

Rockshox and Sram came up with boost spacing...not Trek...

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

I've been reading more about it here, looks like Trek was one of the first companies to use it but they do mention SRAM http://enduro-mtb.com/en/tech-talk-whats-the-boost-standard-all-about/

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

Really? Perhaps I got some misinformation, appreciate the tip. I was just learning about it on the Bulls bikes and filmed them all at once so you may here mea say it incorrectly a few more times

Surfdocsteve
12 months ago

Where were you riding? Is it a legal trail? How does the bike compare to the Haibike with the Yamaha motor?

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

Yeah, this was a dirt road with some trails snaking around it somewhere south of LA. I went there with the team from Bulls and don't know the exact name. I prefer the Brose to the Yamaha motor.

El Cangrejo
12 months ago

No way I am taking a 50lb bike off road. E bikes belong in the city.

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

Well, I've taken 100+ lb dirt bikes off-road and had a blast, even jumped them :D have you seen this video with Travis Pastrana? One of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQa3mnXawF0 watch around 22 seconds and beyond in the fields... incredible

John Moura
12 months ago

Cool bike - - Great review and scenery!

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

Thanks John! Glad you enjoyed the scenery, this was such a beautiful day... awesome spot to ride with all the views to the ocean :D

durianrider
12 months ago

Love it.

Mark Hepple
11 months ago

Start doing more ebike reviews durianrider Keen to see if bikes similar to this are available in Adelaide aus.

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

Me too, this is a winner for sure :D

Bart Beek
12 months ago

Buy an auto-following drone for better footage whilst cycling!

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

Yeah, I'm looking at the new DJI Mavic Pro and saving up... also trying to balance describing bikes and testing with entertainment. It takes a lot longer to do drone shots and to pack and care for a drone vs. the handhelds. I appreciate the tip and actually used a drone a few days ago for an upcoming bike ;)

Fat Bike Freak
12 months ago

I don't think he wants to die through submersion in and inhalation of water.

Music Keeps Alive
12 months ago

I wish you're having a good day because I haven't

Music Keeps Alive
12 months ago

;-)

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

Aww, that's a bummer... Not every day is good, sometimes I'm filming these reviews and being happy on camera but having some challenges to work through. It's okay to have tough times, in a way they balance out the good times and help guide you towards better ways to spend time and better people to surround yourself with :D

Rastafari Jah
12 months ago

Please start putting price in your Video Description . Thanks

Rastafari Jah
12 months ago

+Simon Colby Just saying I wish he would put the Price in the written description of each Video . Maybe some Specs as well .

Simon Colby
12 months ago

He did at the very end of the video.

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

I hear ya, it's in the description back at the site, I like to this at the top of the description and this allows me to update the price in just one place as it changes. Also, back at the site you can use the advanced search to filter and sort by price, bike type, size, etc. :)

Steve Petttyjohn
12 months ago

Great review as usual! However, I would have liked to see how the battery is removed. Is it as easy as the Bosch or Yamaha to remove?

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

Great point Steve! We got out to the trail and they hadn't brought all of the chargers or keys so I wasn't able to show it... I find that it's very easy to remove but you want to avoid accidentally dropping it as you unlock then tilt it to come out. Compared with Yamaha or Bosch I'd say it's slightly trickier but looks way better.

Carlospicywiener
12 months ago

beautiful bike but why not a 1000-1500w version (for off road only mode)surely the internal gears/driveline could handle it?

ElectricBikeReview.com
12 months ago

They limit it for legal purposes, different markets have different limits and I think this helps with liability for the bigger companies with more to lose. Some kits offer more power but you could be putting yourself on the line if an accident happens. In California this qualifies as Class 1 to be allowed on more trails and is legal in the US as it has under 750 watt motor.